[Doggie 1]

Understood.
And if an armed offender invades your factory tomorrow who will you call?
The Salvation Army?
No, it will be the police.
And if they were my officers I would want them adequately equipped to deal with the situation and save your lives whilst at the same time, being able to defend themselves.

[Dazzler]

Funnily enough, I am quite comforted that the police have guns. It make me feel that if the S**t hits the fan they have more chance of controlling the situation..

[Phil №❶]

I have tremendous respect for all members of the force. Yes it's a job, but with the level of risk involved and the pay scale, these people have a genuine desire to help and assist the public, when things go terribly wrong. All police in all countries, strive to keep the community safe and work continuously to thwart organised crime. Not a popular job by anyone's standards, but I'm glad they're there.

[bumpkin]

I agree, I have tremendous respect for the police and would possibly go as far as to say that in the UK my generation are amongst the last to have that respect.

This has resulted in the terrible events such as yesterdays becoming more commonplace.

I don't think we are "divided", I think we see good and bad from both sides and have to admit that my own view is not helped by the fact that the automatic image which comes to mind when we mention armed police is those who have the LMG style weapon strapped around their bodies as has become the norm in our airports for example, certainly not a hidden weapon by any stretch of the imagination.  A fully holstered handgun as described is potentially a different scenario completely and as mentioned attached to the utility belt along with all the other items would, as stated become accepted.

Interestingly I recall that much the same debate was held in this country when they introduced tasers, I can't be sure if they are still specialist units or if they are being increasingly rolled out, but certainly the furore surrounding police carrying tasers did cool down fairly quickly.

I guess the old skool amongst us constantly point to our old friend the USA when this discussion comes around and look at the stats which say despite their police force being prominently armed, the level and severity of crime has not diminished.  What are the stats like for Australia in comparison?, to be honest I don't think I was even overly aware that all front line officers in Oz were armed.

I think there is a heavy belief in the UK that by arming our officers we are making them even more "fair game" for the low lives of society to have a pop at by whatever means they deem necessary and that kind of scares us

[Phil №❶]

Very understanding of you Bumpkin, I agree, I remember getting off a plane in Bahrain on the way to London 25 years ago, it was a confronting sight to see a guard with a military weapon in his hands and ready to use it on anyone misbehaving. I guess that any "lowlife" that wants to have a pop at an officer here knows he is likely to get a pop back and that tends to dissuade the people, bit like the cold war, deterrents.

[Surferdude]

I guess the old skool amongst us constantly point to our old friend the USA when this discussion comes around and look at the stats which say despite their police force being prominently armed, the level and severity of crime has not diminished.  What are the stats like for Australia in comparison?, to be honest I don't think I was even overly aware that all front line officers in Oz were armed.

This is a good point. However I doubt any accurate stats can be quoted, for the simple reason that we can't be sure how much worse (or better) things would be if police weren't armed.
It's a bit like the old argument which says half of all advertising is wasted. So you could halve your advertising budget except no one knows "which half".

[eye30]

If it becomes common practice for each Police officer to have a gun then I believe that all crims will decide to arm themselves, even the petty crim.

As it is today only1 or 2 are armed and usually for the "hold job" but I can see this becoming the norm even with the petty theft.

Also, I can see ordinary law abiding people thinking "well I'll have to get a gun just in case I'm attacked when I'm out or even in my own property".

When I've been abroad and the Police have gun it doesn't make me feel any safer.  In fact it is the opposite. 

I feel safe here in the UK even when I've been out drinking in some of the so called bad areas of my home city.

[AlanHo]

I'm trying to feel a little guilt at starting this "conversation" with my post about armed police. But I'm not - so perhaps I should add to my argument.

I am not competent to talk about law enforcement in other countries - but in the UK I feel the lawlessness we face is more the result of soft sentencing and the fact that our prisons are more like a holiday camp than confinement as a punishment.  Some of the judgements made for very serious crimes are totally unbelievable.

The public in general and the police in particular are being exposed to excessive danger because criminals no longer have any fear about the possible punishment. Why worry about going to prison - no matter how heinous the crime the death penalty cannot be applied and in the unlikely event you will be given a custodial sentence, you will get free meals, Sky TV, drugs and even sex unlimited. You only serve half of the time you are sentenced to, and you will get a discount on that if you are seen to be a good boy or the prisons are over -crowded.

It is my honest belief that the punishment should really fit the crime and anyone convicted of a premeditated murder or one involving knives or firearms should face a choice of the death penalty or be used for valuable medical experiments. Either way, society would enjoy some benefit. Either the scum bag would be dead and no longer a threat - or would be helping to develop new drugs that otherwise would take years to test using poor innocent monkeys or beagles.

We could even perfect hemorrhoid transplants.

[asathorny]

It does make a change tho, I mean the trend of this thread.   IN years gone past we, the Brits, would wander the world telling each country how they should run things, like the Brits do.

So, I suppose it's a refreshing change to hear the colonials telling us how we should do things 

Needless to say, we're not listening...   

We have our fingers in our ears and we're shouting Lalalallalalalalallalalalaa aa   

[Dazzler]

Very good ASA  (love it)

and Alan I so much agree with this and it applies over here too.. Guns or no Guns...

 I feel the lawlessness we face is more the result of soft sentencing and the fact that our prisons are more like a holiday camp than confinement as a punishment.  Some of the judgements made for very serious crimes are totally unbelievable.

The public in general and the police in particular are being exposed to excessive danger because criminals no longer have any fear about the possible punishment. Why worry about going to prison - no matter how heinous the crime the death penalty cannot be applied and in the unlikely event you will be given a custodial sentence, you will get free meals, Sky TV, drugs and even sex unlimited. You only serve half of the time you are sentenced to, and you will get a discount on that if you are seen to be a good boy or the prisons are over -crowded.

It is my honest belief that the punishment should really fit the crime ...

[Surferdude]

I am not competent to talk about law enforcement in other countries - but in the UK I feel the lawlessness we face is more the result of soft sentencing and the fact that our prisons are more like a holiday camp than confinement as a punishment.  Some of the judgements made for very serious crimes are totally unbelievable.

I know Dazz has already commented on this but I wanted to add my agreement too.
This is a problem both our countries share.

And don't start me on all the resources employed to "rehabilitate" the offender while the victims and their families get virtually nothing by comparison.
IMO every magistrate and judge who doesn't apply a deserved sentence for crimes of violence is pretty much setting themselves up as an accomplice. (Now THERE's a controversial statement )

[Phil №❶]

Well we've all drifted  and although we have different opinions, it was a very interesting discussion. 

[Lester]

I really don't like to talk about my past, some good and bad memories. But I was a Police Officer in New South Wales, Australia, from 1967 to 2003, yes, 36 years, a fair innings.  As all police in NSW had/have I had a personal firearm, firstly a Smith & Wesson .38 revolver and later on a Glock 17, automatic pistol.  Suffice to say it was 'comforting to have,' sometimes.   My feelings on arming all UK Police? I think it is time.  Yes, I know quite a few UK police carry firearms on specilaist duties, I have been to UK Four times and have a friend in the police in Northampton, England.

Carry on chaps.

[Dazzler]

Thanks Lester we appreciate your feedback from an insider point of view 

[rustynutz]