i30 Owners Club
FUEL ISSUES & ECONOMY => DIESEL => Topic started by: AlanHo on September 25, 2012, 12:39:25
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Over the last couple of thousand miles I have been keeping an eye open for when the DPF regenerates and making a note of the corresponding odometer readings :TutTut:.
So how do I know when it is regenerating?................ when there is no indication of it in the instrument display :Dunno:
The answer is that I use one or both of two indicators.
• I always have the trip display showing average fuel economy. If I notice a sudden increase in fuel consumption for no obvious reason I assume that this is due to the DPF being regenerated. I believe that this is effected by extra fuel being injected at the end of the power stroke in each cylinder, which burns in the exhaust, and raises the DPF temperature above 600 °C to burn off the carbon particles in the filter.
• The second indicator is when I stop the car in traffic and the engine does not auto stop with a message “Auto Stop Deactivated” in the display. There is nothing in the manual to back up my assumption, but it is always accompanied by a sudden increase in fuel consumption.
It is not easy to spot when the fuel consumption suddenly increases so my odometer readings stating when regen started will not be dead accurate. However – the DPF regeneration seems to take about 20 minutes or 20 to 25 miles dependent on whether you are in town or motorway conditions at the time - so the figures cannot be a lot out.
Here are my results so far :-
Odometer Increment
4798 miles
5062 264
5580 518* I possibly missed a regeneration
5853 273
6101 248
6624 523* I possibly missed a regeneration
6885 261
7140 255
I’m not sure what conclusions you can draw from this – other than the DPF on my car appears to regenerate at approx. 260 mile or 420 km intervals irrespective of the sort of journeys being made.
What I do know is that the DPF is regenerating at least twice during every tank full of fuel – which means a total of 40 to 50 miles being driven at between around 30 to 40 mpg depending on the speed of the car at the time it occurs.
Without boring you with the maths – if my car can cruise for 240 miles at 60 mpg – it will then do the next 20 miles at 30 to 40 mpg. This drags the average down by 10% from 60 mpg to 56 mpg – a significant difference.
Hence there is no chance that us guys in Europe will be able to match the economy figures you Aussies can achieve. However, the difference is not quite enough to cause me to want to emigrate.
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Hence there is no chance that us guys in Europe will be able to match the economy figures you Aussies can achieve. However, the difference is not quite enough to cause me to want to emigrate.
But what about our weather....? :D
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:scared:
This is much worse than the 2011 i30 I have... In my case, the regeneration is fixed to 700 km (435 miles) and it does 1-2 regenerations per tank.
How much does the MPG change in your case, Alan? My trip computer usually goes from 5 l/100 km (47 MPG) to 7 l/100 km (31 MPG), which results in ~2% increase in total economy figures (0,1 l/100km). It is not much but is definitely a joy-breaker :confused: This equates to 25 kilometers less per tank...
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:scared:
This is much worse than the 2011 i30 I have... In my case, the regeneration is fixed to 700 km (435 miles) and it does 1-2 regenerations per tank.
How much does the MPG change in your case, Alan? My trip computer usually goes from 5 l/100 km (47 MPG) to 7 l/100 km (31 MPG), which results in ~2% increase in total economy figures (0,1 l/100km). It is not much but is definitely a joy-breaker :confused: This equates to 25 kilometers less per tank...
See my previous post on the topic
https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=16724.msg182314#msg182314 (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=16724.msg182314#msg182314)
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Thank god we do not have those DPFs here in Australia.
THey seem to cause more problems than they solve.
{Apologies for not being of any help I just had to get that out of my system}
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Thank god we do not have those DPFs here in Australia.
I'm glad to know that my i30 doesn't have a DPF. I have a DPF on my NS Diesel Pajero and although it never caused me any problems, I know a few people with similar cars that were forever having problems and it took a couple of years of ECU upgrades before Mitsubishi got the problem largely under control.
Bye Jeff.
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Here is an update to my original post with two more regenerations
Odometer Increment
4798 miles
5062 264
5580 518
5853 273
6101 248
6624 523
6885 261
7140 255
7314 174...Mainly town driving
7680 366...Includes 280 mile motorway trip
8014 334...60% motorway driving
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My new i30 has now 600 km on the clock and yesterday I noticed this "Auto Stop Deactivated" in the display and more important it smelled a bit unusual after I have parked the car. (And this unusual smell seems in fact to be not so unusual for cars which were just regenerating their DPF)
But I was a bit surprised to have a regeneration at 600 km. According to AlanHo's investigations this would be too late for the first but too early for the second. But maybe it's a bit different when the car is all new or there are other factors. (For example it could be possible that I missed and interrupted an earlier regeneration so that it decided to start again now.)
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There's a pressure sensor before and after the DPF. They compare readings in pressure and are used to define when to regenerate. I don't think it's fixed intervals. As your car is still very new, there's probably not very much soot in the DPF and thus there will be longer between the regenerations in the start.
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There's a pressure sensor before and after the DPF. They compare readings in pressure and are used to define when to regenerate. I don't think it's fixed intervals. As your car is still very new, there's probably not very much soot in the DPF and thus there will be longer between the regenerations in the start.
Based on the regularity of the intervals on both the 2011 CRDi and newer, I seriously doubt that the regeneration is triggered by the pressure difference... Look at my posts to this topic - driving style, weather, fuel... nothing effects the regeneration interval.
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I should point out that I record the odometer reading as soon as I notice any sign that the DPF is regenerating - such as a sudden and steady increase in the average fuel consumption or the Auto Stop being deactivated. I don't necessarily catch when the regen actually starts - hence my odo figures can be at any point in the regen activity (which seems to last for 15 to 20 miles).
Hence the intervals I have shown could be innacurate by plus and minus 20 miles.
As time goes by I am becoming more convinced that the regeneration is sponsored by either a pressure differential across the DPF or a maximum back pressure reading and not a set mileage interval. I have interrogated the service people at my dealership and they are not able to answer the question to my satisfaction - only that it is triggered by the engine "computer". It would be interesting to hear what other dealerships have to say on the subject - do we have any volunteers from Europe members to follow this up?
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I'd ask my dealer, but we don't have DPF here :P
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I faced the dealer with the data I recorded and they did not have any good explanation.
I can export the log of regenerations for the whole 61k kilometers, but on general it appears that the interval is fixed to ~700 km (the log is here: http://www.poraba.com/usage_other_view.php?type=25888&carid=11497 (http://www.poraba.com/usage_other_view.php?type=25888&carid=11497))
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I faced the dealer with the data I recorded and they did not have any good explanation.
I can export the log of regenerations for the whole 61k kilometers, but on general it appears that the interval is fixed to ~700 km (the log is here: http://www.poraba.com/usage_other_view.php?type=25888&carid=11497 (http://www.poraba.com/usage_other_view.php?type=25888&carid=11497))
Where does the log information come from? I would be interested to get the same info off my car - if only I knew how. :needhelp:
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I faced the dealer with the data I recorded and they did not have any good explanation.
I can export the log of regenerations for the whole 61k kilometers, but on general it appears that the interval is fixed to ~700 km (the log is here: http://www.poraba.com/usage_other_view.php?type=25888&carid=11497 (http://www.poraba.com/usage_other_view.php?type=25888&carid=11497))
Where does the log information come from? I would be interested to get the same info off my car - if only I knew how. :needhelp:
At the moment, I am the logging interface... :)
However, it would not be hard to read the exhaust gas temperature and wait for the temperature to raise above 600 °C. I had a plan to do something like that but had not had time yet.
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I faced the dealer with the data I recorded and they did not have any good explanation.
I can export the log of regenerations for the whole 61k kilometers, but on general it appears that the interval is fixed to ~700 km (the log is here: http://www.poraba.com/usage_other_view.php?type=25888&carid=11497 (http://www.poraba.com/usage_other_view.php?type=25888&carid=11497))
Where does the log information come from? I would be interested to get the same info off my car - if only I knew how. :needhelp:
At the moment, I am the logging interface... :)
However, it would not be hard to read the exhaust gas temperature and wait for the temperature to raise above 600 °C. I had a plan to do something like that but had not had time yet.
OK - but how do you recognise that the regeneration has started with such precision.
There is no indication in the instruments and it is not always easy to spot that the fuel consumption has increased.
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I am sitting in a hotel in Cumbria typing this after a 176 mile cruise up the motorway from home. I was shocked to find that the DPF regenerated after only 157 miles from the previous regeneration.
When I started the trip the car had already done 74 miles - mainly in-town driving - since the previous regeneration. Then 83 miles into my trip (of which 85 miles were on the motorways at a steady speed on the cruise of 65mph) the DPF started to regenerate again which lasted for 24 miles.
I will not bore you with the maths but I made a note of the trip average economy at each point with the following result :-
First 83 miles - 3 on main roads and 80 on the M42 and M6 - average economy was 63.60 mpg (4.44 l/100)
Next 24 miles on the motorway whilst the DPF regenerated - average economy was 47.33 mpg (5.97l/100)
Final 69 miles - 43 on motorway 26 on good main roads - average economy was 62.15 mpg (4.55 l/100)
The updated table of regens now looks like this
Odometer Increment
4798 miles
5062 264
5580 518
5853 273
6101 248
6624 523
6885 261
7140 255
7314 174...Mainly town driving
7680 366...Includes 280 mile motorway trip
8014 334...60% motorway driving
8171 157...77 miles urban - remainder motorway
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Regeneration over 24 miles.. :scared:
When cruising at 65 miles you're are doing 1900 - 2000 revs.. :question:
Would it make the regeneration faster if you changed to 5. gear at higher revs... :question:
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it so happens for the past month or two I have been keeping the engine revs at 2000 or above on the cruise.
The display tells me to change up from 4th to 5th and 5th to 6th at about 1750 rpm - but this drops the engine revs to less than 1500 rpm after you change gear. I have therefore delayed changing up so that the engine is doing around 2000 rpm in the next gear.
Why did I do this? I hear you ask. The answer is because the manual says that if the engine warning light comes on to indicate a forced regen is required - run the car at 2000 rpm for about 20 minutes. So I thought that if I kept the revs above 2000 rpm the soot would not build up in the DPF so quickly and the regen. intevals would be much longer.
How wrong can you be?.............. :sweating:
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Hmm, I would thought just like you....
Have this new gearchange point worsened your economy then... :question:
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Why did I do this? I hear you ask. The answer is because the manual says that if the engine warning light comes on to indicate a forced regen is required - run the car at 2000 rpm for about 20 minutes. So I thought that if I kept the revs above 2000 rpm the soot would not build up in the DPF so quickly and the regen. intevals would be much longer.
Why not drive "normally" and see what effect this has on the regen interval and time..
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Why did I do this? I hear you ask. The answer is because the manual says that if the engine warning light comes on to indicate a forced regen is required - run the car at 2000 rpm for about 20 minutes. So I thought that if I kept the revs above 2000 rpm the soot would not build up in the DPF so quickly and the regen. intevals would be much longer.
Why not drive "normally" and see what effect this has on the regen interval and time..
That is the point - up until recently I have been driving "normally". By that I mean changing up when the car computer tellls me to. I have now established that keeping at 2000 rpm has not noticeably affected the car's economy and it has not helped extend the DPF regen intervals. What it does do is make the car far more lively and responsive.
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it so happens for the past month or two I have been keeping the engine revs at 2000 or above on the cruise.
The display tells me to change up from 4th to 5th and 5th to 6th at about 1750 rpm - but this drops the engine revs to less than 1500 rpm after you change gear. I have therefore delayed changing up so that the engine is doing around 2000 rpm in the next gear.
Why did I do this? I hear you ask. The answer is because the manual says that if the engine warning light comes on to indicate a forced regen is required - run the car at 2000 rpm for about 20 minutes. So I thought that if I kept the revs above 2000 rpm the soot would not build up in the DPF so quickly and the regen. intevals would be much longer.
How wrong can you be?.............. :sweating:
I suspect Alan that the instructions to run @ 2k allow enough excess fuel to be injected to burn off the soot, not to keep the DPF clean, so it's a matter of personal choice what revs you use in between. :neutral:
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I faced the dealer with the data I recorded and they did not have any good explanation.
I can export the log of regenerations for the whole 61k kilometers, but on general it appears that the interval is fixed to ~700 km (the log is here: http://www.poraba.com/usage_other_view.php?type=25888&carid=11497 (http://www.poraba.com/usage_other_view.php?type=25888&carid=11497))
Where does the log information come from? I would be interested to get the same info off my car - if only I knew how. :needhelp:
At the moment, I am the logging interface... :)
However, it would not be hard to read the exhaust gas temperature and wait for the temperature to raise above 600 °C. I had a plan to do something like that but had not had time yet.
OK - but how do you recognise that the regeneration has started with such precision.
There is no indication in the instruments and it is not always easy to spot that the fuel consumption has increased.
Well, firstly, I usually keep an eye on the current fuel consumption, secondly, I can predict the next cycle to the 10-20 km. Then it is not hard to spot the 2-3 l/100km more and slightly different engine sound. And I have the feeling that it pulls much harder in lower rpm (I have 90 PS and any change is very obvious).
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I am now back home from Cumbria via a diversion to Oldham where I had a noise insulation kit fitted by a specialist company called Noise Killers. See separate thread (when I post it later after I give the car a run on the same roads I used before, to take comparative decibel meter readings.)
The DPF regenerated again on the way home on the motorway. It lasted about 14 miles and economy during regeneration was 46.05 mpg. The average for the whole 411 mile trip was 60.1 mpg. As before I cruised the motorways at around 65 mph and generally kept to the speed limits on urban roads. The trip included driving over the Kirkstone Pass in the Lake District - a very steep and winding alpine type road which climbs from a low of 174 feet to a high of 1505 feet (according to the sat-nav) which was very icy and had a snow covering in parts. This would have knocked econonomy back a touch.
Odometer Increment
4798 miles
5062 264
5580 518
5853 273
6101 248
6624 523
6885 261
7140 255
7314 174...Mainly town driving
7680 366...Includes 280 mile motorway trip
8014 334...60% motorway driving
8171 157...77 miles urban - 80 miles on a motorway
8480 309...83 miles urban - 226 on motorways
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After reading about the DPF regen I'm glad I've a petrol.
Although I had a diesel previously it didn't regen.
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After reading about the DPF regen I'm glad I've a petrol.
Although I had a diesel previously it didn't regen.
Well, I drove the new i30 with 1.6 GDI (135 BHP) last week and I was kind of disappointed. Usually, I do around 80-90% of driving on motorways and my 90 BHP 1.6 diesel feels way more responsive in higher gears at speeds of 100-130 km/h. This together with the lower fuel consumption makes the diesel a simple choice to make. DPF regens are pain in the ass mostly due to 'unpredictable' behaviour and lack of proper explanation by the dealers.
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Latest update after a long trip to Cumbria. Last entry of 391 miles comprises :-
First day
Two cold starts. 205 miles on motorway, 24 miles in 1st and 2nd gears crossing mountain passes. 50 miles on fast A roads. 8 miles urban.
Second day
One cold start. 1 mile on B road. 88 miles on motorway.
During the trip the overall average according to the trip recorder was 56.29 mpg - but during 22 miles of DPF regen the car averaged 34.6 mpg. Excluding regen the average would have been 58.4 mpg
I am satisfied that this trip has fully confirmed that my car does not regenerate at a set mileage - but when the DPF calls for the requirement which I presume is based upon pressure drop across the DPF itself.
Odometer Increment
4798 miles
5062 264
5580 518
5853 273
6101 248
6624 523
6885 261
7140 255
7314 174...Mainly town driving
7680 366...Includes 280 mile motorway trip
8014 334...60% motorway driving
8171 157...77 miles urban - 80 miles on a motorway
8480 309...83 miles urban - 226 on motorways
8635 155...Mainly urban journeys
9026 391...During a 408 mile round trip on motorways to Cumbria
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I'm with eye30, Post#25.... diesels have become too finicky in order to stay within pollution regulations,... in my opinion.
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Not in Oz. :sweating:
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Not in Oz. :sweating:
It will come, once the Greenies get established & start dictating whats good & bad for the Oz planet...
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Maybe in Australia they think "Hey, we're already living in a desert under the OZone hole, so how could it get any worse when we continue to pollute the environment?" :whistler:
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This topic did freak me out!Yesterday after 128 km in town use only,I went to the gas station in order to fill it up so I can get the picture of the consumption(It was full of fuel,I drove it for 128km and I went to fill it up again).Well it asked 12 Litters of diesel,which means the consumption was 9.3 lt/100km...WHYYYYYYYYYYY :mad:
Is it cause of that story of the DPF which I dont know what does it do?
I bought the diesel version in order to be in economy mode :confused:
For the story the ODO says 183km so far...
Is it cause its new yet?
I30 2012 1.4 diesel 90hp
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This topic did freak me out!Yesterday after 128 km in town use only,I went to the gas station in order to fill it up so I can get the picture of the consumption(It was full of fuel,I drove it for 128km and I went to fill it up again).Well it asked 12 Litters of diesel,which means the consumption was 9.3 lt/100km...WHYYYYYYYYYYY :mad:
Is it cause of that story of the DPF which I dont know what does it do?
I bought the diesel version in order to be in economy mode :confused:
For the story the ODO says 183km so far...
Is it cause its new yet?
I30 2012 1.4 diesel 90hp
Too early to judge yet Nickoss ... You have to look at your average over 1000's of kilometres to get the true overall picture.
Did you do the original fill? Was it full to the brim?? Did you refill it at the same pump to the same level? Does the 183kms include the delivery Kilometres? (get the idea) :winker:
Don't stress, a 1.4 Diesel will be economical in the long run, I'm sure!
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Maybe in Australia they think "Hey, we're already living in a desert under the OZone hole, so how could it get any worse when we continue to pollute the environment?" :whistler:
maybe if your in the middle of australia, but with a population a fraction of GB & a country the same size as north America i don't think it would make a difference.
a few years back an American serviceman was joking he had been living in GB he said you can fit England five times into the state of Texas, i said & you can fit texas five times into the state of Western Australia he almost died. also the population of Texas is the same as the population of the whole of Australia.
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This topic did freak me out!Yesterday after 128 km in town use only,I went to the gas station in order to fill it up so I can get the picture of the consumption(It was full of fuel,I drove it for 128km and I went to fill it up again).Well it asked 12 Litters of diesel,which means the consumption was 9.3 lt/100km...WHYYYYYYYYYYY :mad:
Is it cause of that story of the DPF which I dont know what does it do?
I bought the diesel version in order to be in economy mode :confused:
For the story the ODO says 183km so far...
Is it cause its new yet?
I30 2012 1.4 diesel 90hp
Niko give it time, my 2011 1.6 turbo diesel manual now has 31,000k & just had the service put new fuel filter & motor freed up more i've been driving normal in sydney traffic and trip pc just sits @ 5.2L/100K
a friends son who is a family man just got an 8 seater Ford Territory Turbo Petrol 6 speed auto 6 cylinder motor & he runs on 98 BP that costs about $1.55 per Lt i asked to see trip pc average read out, the car has 70,0000 up the average reading on trip pc was 31L/100k he did not care.
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Niko give it time, my 2011 1.6 turbo diesel manual now has 31,000k & just had the service put new fuel filter & motor freed up more i've been driving normal in sydney traffic and trip pc just sits @ 5.2L/100K
a friends son who is a family man just got an 8 seater Ford Territory Turbo Petrol 6 speed auto 6 cylinder motor & he runs on 98 BP that costs about $1.55 per Lt i asked to see trip pc average read out, the car has 70,0000 up the average reading on trip pc was 31L/100k he did not care.
Thank you Lakes but my trip pc also was displaying a value of avg 7,5 Lt/100k but the car asked 9,3 Lt for 100km from the same pump same gas station!
The car was delivered to me with the odo displaying 9km,the rest 174 are mine
and an empty tank.
I was the first who filled it up to the brim.So,brim to brim it asked me 9,3 as the pump said
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The bottom line Nickoss is that it will improve and you need to look at the results over a much longer period (several tank fulls) to get a true indication. :winker:
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What kind of dpf the new i30 uses?Is it active or passive?
How the specific's car dpf works?
Should I be in alert for something?with the petrol(previous cars I've owned) had no worries etc.Should I be now?
The active one uses an extra injector which injects fuel direct to dpf in order to ''burn'' the ''dirt"
How do we know when a clean process takes place?I drive only in the city,so not a lot kms per month or year.
If it is up to me,how should I know when a clean process should be performed?Or is it an automated procedure that is beyond driver's realization?
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What kind of dpf the new i30 uses?Is it energetic or pathetic?
How the specific's car dpf works?
Should I be in alert for something?with the petrol(previous cars I've owned) had no worries etc.Should I be now?
Active or Passive*
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What kind of dpf the new i30 uses?Is it energetic or pathetic?
How the specific's car dpf works?
Should I be in alert for something?with the petrol(previous cars I've owned) had no worries etc.Should I be now?
Active or Passive*
Sorry for my English :-[
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The DPF is regenerated by extra fuel being injected into the engine cylinders just before they reach the end of the firing stroke. Hence the extra fuel does not have time to burn in the cylinder (and generate more power) but burns as it passes through the turbo and into the DPF which is bolted to the turbo. This raies the DPF temperature to around 600°C and burns off the carbon deposits in the filter.
Modern diesel cars fitted with DPF's are not really suitable for regular city driving - they are intended for those who regularly do long journeys. My experience is that if I do mainly city driving - and I live in an area where I rarely meet any stop-go traffic - the DPF regenerates after about 155 miles (250 km). When the car is used mainly on fast long runs on the motorway the DPF regenerates after about 375 miles (600 km).
See my earlier thread for a more detailed explanation
https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=13595.msg149194#msg149194 (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=13595.msg149194#msg149194)
Dealers should really advise prospective customers not to buy a diesel if their car is to be used mainly around town - mine did.
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You have to wonder how taxi drivers get on with their motors. I use them quite a lot and they're invariably diesels.
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You have to wonder how taxi drivers get on with their motors. I use them quite a lot and they're invariably diesels.
In our area the diesel taxis are mainly Peugots, Toyotas and Mercedes more than 3 or 4 years old which do not have DPF's. The diesel black cabs in our area are all so old DPF's hadn't even been invented when they were built.
The last cab I used here was to go to the airport a month ago and it was a 2 year old petrol Peugot. I asked the driver why he didn't have a more economical diesel and he explained that "the maintenance costs are too high mate - in any event for town driving the petrol cars are nearly as economical". I asked him about DPF's but he didn't know what I was talking about - so we changed the subject to the weather.
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According to the owner's manual the car regenerates the dpf by driving it for 20 minutes in 2000rpm!So it is passive.The passive way uses the increased temperature of the dpf(after specific rev run engine)in order to burn the particulates!The way you describe,is the active way
[The DPF is regenerated by extra fuel being injected into the engine cylinders just before they reach the end of the firing stroke. Hence the extra fuel does not have time to burn in the cylinder (and generate more power) but burns as it passes through the turbo and into the DPF]
Is a bit tricky because if the regenerate should not be able to be accomplished, some of the extra injected fuel may return back,finding the way to the oil pan.
After that they thought to install an extra injector Which injects any time it is needed,(not having the exhaust valves open)in the dpf for the regenerate procedure(no particulate back in this case)
That is what google says...Anyway do you realize when the regenerate takes place in your car?And how do you?
My dealer mentioned nothing about the usage of a diesel.And I am sure he doesn't even know anything about it!
One more thing,I'm driving mostly in the city about 20 km per day,occasionally we do journeys!
Does that mean that the city consumption wont be 6Lt/100km as the manufacturer says?To be precise manufacturer says 5.3Lt/100km city.3.5Lt/100km motorway.4.1Lt/100km mixed
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The only way I recognise that the DPF is probably regenerating is when :_
1. The trip recorder shows a sudden increase in fuel consumption which continues for 15 to 20 miles
2. When the car comes to a stop the engine keeps running and I get a message "The Auto-Stop feature is deactivated"
Whether the definition of regeneration is active or passive is of no interest to me - what I do know is that when I use the car just for short journeys with many cold starts the regen occurs more regularly - the shortest I have noticed being 200 kms. When I do fast long journeys the interval is longer - the longest I have noticed being 600 kms.
I did once do an experiment when I was using the car for a long period about town and only doing 5 to 30 miles per day. I used the gearbox to keep the revs above 2000 rpm all the time to see whether it would extend the DPF regen interval - it didn't make a jot of difference.
My car has now done nearly 9000 miles (14,500 km) and I am unable to get anywhere near the official fuel economy figures. Around town I probably average 45 mpg (6.3 l/100 km) and on a long motorway journey 62 mpg (4.55 l/100 km). What I do know for certain is that since I first bought the car it has averaged 54.81 mpg (5.15 l/100 km) overall.
You will find a thread on here I started before I bought the car when I carried out road tests, did a lot of research and published a comparison chart showing predicted ownership costs between the new i30 and other cars. In that chart you will see that I predicted an average fuel economy of 55 mpg - I am getting 54.8 mpg so really I have no grounds for complaint.
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The only way I recognise that the DPF is probably regenerating is when :_
1. The trip recorder shows a sudden increase in fuel consumption which continues for 15 to 20 miles
2. When the car comes to a stop the engine keeps running and I get a message "The Auto-Stop feature is deactivated"
Whether the definition of regeneration is active or passive is of no interest to me - what I do know is that when I use the car just for short journeys with many cold starts the regen occurs more regularly - the shortest I have noticed being 200 kms. When I do fast long journeys the interval is longer - the longest I have noticed being 600 kms.
I did once do an experiment when I was using the car for a long period about town and only doing 5 to 30 miles per day. I used the gearbox to keep the revs above 2000 rpm all the time to see whether it would extend the DPF regen interval - it didn't make a jot of difference.
My car has now done nearly 9000 miles (14,500 km) and I am unable to get anywhere near the official fuel economy figures. Around town I probably average 45 mpg (6.3 l/100 km) and on a long motorway journey 62 mpg (4.55 l/100 km). What I do know for certain is that since I first bought the car it has averaged 54.81 mpg (5.15 l/100 km) overall.
You will find a thread on here I started before I bought the car when I carried out road tests, did a lot of research and published a comparison chart showing predicted ownership costs between the new i30 and other cars. In that chart you will see that I predicted an average fuel economy of 55 mpg - I am getting 54.8 mpg so really I have no grounds for complaint.
Thanks mate you were very informative
:)
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@Nickoss,
We have been told here that too much slow city driving will not enable the DPF to regenerate. If this happens, the engine light comes on and a manual cleaning has to be done at the dealer, which they charge for. I suggest that at least monthly, you take a country drive along a high speed road. :neutral:
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@Nickoss,
We have been told here that too much slow city driving will not enable the DPF to regenerate. If this happens, the engine light comes on and a manual cleaning has to be done at the dealer, which they charge for. I suggest that at least monthly, you take a country drive along a high speed road. :neutral:
That's a fair point but there are a couple of problems involved.
Firstly it will only work if the DPF is yelling to be regenerated at that time.
Second - it needs to be a run of at least 15 miles or 20 minutes - at high speed
It is conceivable that you could decide to do a long run and for the DPF to call for regeneration a short time later. I have been able to establish from my tests that just running the car at high speed for 15 to 20 milesdoes not regenerate the DPF - unless it coincides with when the regen cycle is initiated by the cpu and extra fuel is injected late in the firing stroke.
You are right to point out that the DPF will not regenerate at low engine load and low speeds. The extra fuel injected will fail to raise the temperature of the DPF to the required level.
It really is a most difficult problem if you don't do regular fast 20 to 30 mile journeys in order to increase the possibility of catching the regen cycle whilst you are doing it.
The lesson is - if you only use your car for regular short journeys - buy a petrol.
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Yes Alan, I should have mentioned that the driver has absolutely, no control over when the DPF regen will occur so under the scenario you described, what you say is quite correct. :goodjob2:
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What kind of dpf the new i30 uses?Is it energetic or pathetic?
How the specific's car dpf works?
Should I be in alert for something?with the petrol(previous cars I've owned) had no worries etc.Should I be now?
Active or Passive*
Sorry for my English :-[
:-) Not a critiscism of any kind Nikos, just clarifying for anyone else who may pop into the forum wit helpful suggestions so they know the subject.
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:goodjob2:
I love the attitude on this forum. :)
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:goodjob2:
I love the attitude on this forum. :)
:goodjob: I love the way people don't have attitude on this forum :snigger:
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The only way I recognise that the DPF is probably regenerating is when :_
1. The trip recorder shows a sudden increase in fuel consumption which continues for 15 to 20 miles
2. When the car comes to a stop the engine keeps running and I get a message "The Auto-Stop feature is deactivated"
Whether the definition of regeneration is active or passive is of no interest to me - what I do know is that when I use the car just for short journeys with many cold starts the regen occurs more regularly - the shortest I have noticed being 200 kms. When I do fast long journeys the interval is longer - the longest I have noticed being 600 kms.
I did once do an experiment when I was using the car for a long period about town and only doing 5 to 30 miles per day. I used the gearbox to keep the revs above 2000 rpm all the time to see whether it would extend the DPF regen interval - it didn't make a jot of difference.
My car has now done nearly 9000 miles (14,500 km) and I am unable to get anywhere near the official fuel economy figures. Around town I probably average 45 mpg (6.3 l/100 km) and on a long motorway journey 62 mpg (4.55 l/100 km). What I do know for certain is that since I first bought the car it has averaged 54.81 mpg (5.15 l/100 km) overall.
You will find a thread on here I started before I bought the car when I carried out road tests, did a lot of research and published a comparison chart showing predicted ownership costs between the new i30 and other cars. In that chart you will see that I predicted an average fuel economy of 55 mpg - I am getting 54.8 mpg so really I have no grounds for complaint.
I came across this thread in a google search. I bought my i30 1.6 CRDi 110PS Diesel Blue Drive last month thinking it would do close to the advertised 76.3mpg but unfortunately like your mpg figures I get around 46mpg in town and 52mpg on motorways..nowhere near that advertised figures. I keep thinking that it would improve over time to let the engine run in since its only done 4000k miles but im not holding much hope.
My thoughts are that this car can never do anywhere near that figure, even in lab conditions I bet and that the figures have been inflated to make the car look economical. I found out on the net that Hyundai and some other manufacturers have been found guilty in the US for advertising false mpg and Im wondering if its the same here in the UK except the UK hasnt made a fuss of it yet. Apparently in the US, these car manufacturers are compensating the owners for the cost of the amount of fuel they could have saved if those advertised figures were true.
Still love the car though, just wish it really did do close to 76mpg advertised or at least 60mpg would be great :neutral:
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I very much doubt that Hyundai have over-stated the Europe test figures. It is a strictly controlled test carried out on a rolling road.
What all the manufacturers do is specially prepare the test car before submitting it to the test as I have detailed on this forum.
In addition - in the case of a diesel, the test will not include the period when the DPF is being regenerated - again I have posted on the forum the effect this has on my car overall.
I have almost achieved the government test figures on my car. One day I was cruising the M40 on a hot sunny day when there was no wind and no traffic. There was just me in the car, the boot was empty and the tyres were all at 38 psi. I was in 6th gear and travelling at a steady 60 mph on a dead flat section of road when I reset the economy trip to see what the car cruised at under near ideal conditions. Over a 6 miles length of the motorway the car average 73.1 mpg - I then met a slightly undulating section of road and this dropped to 62 mpg.
I have a friend with a 12 month old 1.6 diesel blue drive Golf who gets virtually the same economy as me - in fact his overall for the 12 month period is slightly worse at 53.2 mpg despite the fact that he is still working (I am retired) and his commute is 34 miles each way mainly on the M6 to Coventry. He probably drives faster though.
Enjoy the car - you would have done no better buying another brand - after all - they are limited by the laws of physics.
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Here is an image showing the distribution of the (103) DPF regeneration intervals for my 2011 i30 CRDi. The majority of regens are around 700 km mark, while there are quite a few of them in the range below 230 km that are the result of the regeneration being interrupted (after the regen is interrupted, it is executed again after a shorter period of time). Even if it is interrupted in the last minute, the next regen starts after 200 km...
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I think I'll be hanging onto my mint condition FD model for as long as it will last. :happydance:
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I think I'll be hanging onto my mint condition FD model for as long as it will last. :happydance:
But we don't get DPFs in the GD either. :)
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I think I'll be hanging onto my mint condition FD model for as long as it will last. :happydance:
But we don't get DPFs in the GD either. :)
Doesn't VW, Ford, Opel, Holden, Mazda, Toyota, or any brand have the DPF as standard in their model range, or is there a broad agreement between OZ car importers/manufactures that they don't offer DPF... :question:
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Google says, the cost of DPF is from $300 to $5000 for OEM replacement. So in Oz, you couldn't compete on sale price if some brands had DPF and some didn't. (I'm glad they don't :D).
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I think I'll be hanging onto my mint condition FD model for as long as it will last. :happydance:
But we don't get DPFs in the GD either. :)
Probably not for too much longer though.... :undecided:
Have a read of this, it might shed some light as to when DPF's are likely to appear here in OZ...
http://www.minister.infrastructure.gov.au/aa/releases/2011/June/AA106_2011.aspx (http://www.minister.infrastructure.gov.au/aa/releases/2011/June/AA106_2011.aspx)
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:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Lucky I already have mine.
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3. The “core” Euro 5 requirements which apply in ADR79/03 (Phase 1) would require compliance with all the technical requirements of UN ECE Regulation 83/06 except that ADR79/03 would:
◦ allow the provision of PM mass emissions data based on the previous ECE R83/05 (Annex 4) Type I test procedure (with a PM mass emissions limit of 0.005g/km) in lieu of data collected under the revisedtest procedure (Annex 4a of ECE R83/06) which specifies a limit of 0.0045g/km)
◦ accept a relaxed OBD threshold limit (80mg/km) for PM mass for M and N category vehicles of reference mass >1760kg;
◦ not require compliance with the PM number limit specified for diesel vehicles in ECE R83/06;
I wonder if that clause means that diesel particulates are not covered by the new regs?
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We can only hope.....I just saw blah blah blah when I attempted to read it... :lol:
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We can only hope.....I just saw blah blah blah when I attempted to read it... :lol:
:rofl: (me too) but thanks for the link just the same Rusty
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i don't know how they work out it will save $1 Billion in health cost's. they might mean we will pay.
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I'm really wondering what genius programmed the regeneration interval computer.
I first noticed an "upcoming" regeneration wednesday the 24th(I noticed it because of the higher fuel usage and the deactivation of the ISG) while doing a short trip. So of course it couldn't finish. At friday it tried again - and I was again doing a short trip, so it couldn't finish.
At saturday I was driving 100 km to another city and then 100 km back - it could have regenerated the hell out of the filter... but guess what.. it didn't.
Then at monday, I was doing a short trip again, it started another regeneration attempt which of course was predetermined to fail.
At wednesday I was doing 20 minutes on the highway (and afterwards back the same way) - but guess what. It didn't try to regenerate. This morning I was doing again 25 minutes on the highway... it still wouldn't regenerate. After I drove off the highway I did 5 minutes of city driving... and now the regeneration started... unfortunately once more 200 meter in front of my parking lot.
So whoever made up the 'logic' behind the regeneration, his predictions about when it would make sense to regenerate are a big failure. I'm sure I could drive 200 km on the highway tomorrow and it wouldn't try to regenerate until I'd turn into the street I'm living after the drive...
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^-- that's actually a known law of physics.
Sod's Law.
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The biggest drawback to a modern diesel used for short trips right there....
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So whoever made up the 'logic' behind the regeneration, his predictions about when it would make sense to regenerate are a big failure. I'm sure I could drive 200 km on the highway tomorrow and it wouldn't try to regenerate until I'd turn into the street I'm living after the drive...
Wow! That would be very frustrating and disappointing. :disapp: I would write all that information down, including dates and times and put it in a safe place.
If your DPF fails or requires manual cleaning (at a cost) later on, you may be able to argue a case for free or reduced cost warranty repair. :fingers:
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Oh and I'm so pleased to have bought an i30 in Australia.
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Oh and I'm so pleased to have bought an i30 in Australia.
Yeah, if I already was living in a desert, I wouldn't bother ruining the environment either :D :wink:
No, kidding. I'm not sure if the DPF principally is a good thing or not, but the scheduling of the interval surely could be better in the i30.
But afaik you'd have to ignore the warning light fopr quite a long time in order to get problems. My father drives a Golf diesel with DPF for years on short trips and he had the warning light coming up only once after weeks of really short trips - and could resolve the issue by taking the car to the highway.
Still its annoying because of the increased fuel usage (my i30 drinks much more than advertised anyway) and the disbaling of the ISG.
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I experience exactly the same with the regeneration of my 2008 FD... :disapp:
Apparently they haven't improved on that matter... :disapp:
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I'm confused. Does an OZ 2009 CRDi have a DPF? :head_butt:
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I'm confused. Does an OZ 2009 CRDi have a DPF? :head_butt:
No.
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AFAIK, no Aussie i30's have DPF in any vintage, but the Santa Fe does. :head_butt: