[constipated]

Hey surferdude, what's your opinion on tyre tests like the ones done in Choice magazine or other car magazines, done on a track measuring ability to corner at set speeds, 75km/h, 80, 85  to measure grip, and braking distances in wet and dry.

[Surferdude]

Hi Con, I took the opportunity to split this off from the other topic. Hope that's OK but it certainly warrants a separate discussion.
As you can appreciate, I have participated in and /or seen the results of a lot of these tests over many years.
In my opinion, they are worthwhile up to a point but, despite the efforts of the testing group (Wheels Magazine, Choice etc), there are too many variables to consider and at the end of the day, as Dazz has suggested, results can vary widely from car model to car model.

I've seen tests carried out at a track in the north of Sydney (forget the suburb), at skid pans and closed circuits like Oran Park and Winton and at Bob Jane's NADCAR track in Melbourne.
The first downside I should highlight is that a race track is not and
never can be a public road. There are cambers built in, surfaces are different and (generally) much better maintained.
I observed one supposedly "blind" test where, despite the best efforts of organisers drivers generally knew which brand they were on. I'm not saying that influenced their opinions, just that things aren't always what they seem.
I saw another where a V8 Supercar driver was taking guests around a track on various tyres showing how each performed. But most drivers aren't aware how the slightest adjustment to turn in, lines taken etc can cause massive differences in handling. In other words it's pretty easy to make a tyre look bad by subtly inducing a slide or oversteer or understeer.

The Wheels tests are pretty well run and they do everything they can to get a fair result. But different tyres perform differently at different stages of their life. Some actually perform better, even in the wet as they wear down. You can't test for that sort of thing.

Then you have the problem of whether or not to "trust" the tyre dealer.
In this, just like a family doctor, you should find one you're happy with and continue to go to him. It lets him get to know your car(s), your driving habits and what sort of tyres will perform best for your requirements. If you pick one who will do free pressure checks for you, that's a good start and if you get a puncture or need balancing or alignment, go back to him. He'll monitor how your tyres are wearing. All dealers have a range of brands to choose from as well as different tyre "models" within a particular brand.
If a particular tyre doesn't work for you don't automatically reject the brand. Just consider alternative tread patterns.

That should be enough to get the discussion going.

Trev

[Phil №❶]

When dealing with a subject like this, I can only wonder why a more logical approach isn't used.

F1

F1 cars push tyres to their limits, sometimes even to destruction, so even the best testing can not guarantee reliability. Tyre design and testing in F1 has to be as accurate as possible for the safety of the drivers. Weights, speeds, g forces, suspension variables are all known factors to tyre designers, allowing them to do their best at providing a competitive, safe tyre for racing.

Real world

Fancy taking 1 brand of tyre and expecting it to work on a multitude of vehicles, all of which are different weights, performance levels, have different suspension travel & damping rates. Real world cars can be sports cars, performance cars, limo's etc. As you can see, the vehicle alone introduces many variables also, add those mentioned above and you have a real dog's breakfast. Most manufacturers try to make different models of their brand to cater for these types of vehicle.

It would seem to me that the only way to truly compare tyres is by using machinery to simulate all the variables that tyres need to measure up to eg.

1. Load rating - Tyre on rim @ set pressure and hydraulicaly pressed onto rollers for a nominated number of hours.

2. Wear factor - Tyre rolling on abrasive roller for a nominated number of hours.

I won't labour you with all the other tests for Grip, Flexion etc.

This would at least enable a comparison of tyres by taking the track, weather & vehicle out of the equation, allowing more focus on the tyre only. 

[Dazzler]

I am Guessing Trev would agree with this ..

Say Wheels does a test or two and Falken Tyres win or are near the top in both tests.. It is human nature for anyone who reads the tests to get the impression they should buy Falken Tyres not taking too much notice of the model of tyre or the size or the car they were tested on...

I have found from personal experience that different models of tyre from the same manufacturer can perform very differently 

[constipated]

Is there a way I can link to my previous message in the previous thread to bring up my questions and point of view.

[Dazzler]

Is there a way I can link to my previous message in the previous thread to bring up my questions and point of view.

https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=12908.0;topicseen

[Phil №❶]

I am Guessing Trev would agree with this ..

Say Wheels does a test or two and Falken Tyres win or are near the top in both tests.. It is human nature for anyone who reads the tests to get the impression they should buy Falken Tyres not taking too much notice of the model of tyre or the size or the car they were tested on...

I have found from personal experience that different models of tyre from the same manufacturer can perform very differently 

Which is why a test standard should be developed. It is done with aircraft tyres to eliminate as many variables as possible, it should be done with vehicle tyres as well.

[Surferdude]

When dealing with a subject like this, I can only wonder why a more logical approach isn't used.

F1

F1 cars push tyres to their limits, sometimes even to destruction, so even the best testing can not guarantee reliability. Tyre design and testing in F1 has to be as accurate as possible for the safety of the drivers. Weights, speeds, g forces, suspension variables are all known factors to tyre designers, allowing them to do their best at providing a competitive, safe tyre for racing.

Real world

Fancy taking 1 brand of tyre and expecting it to work on a multitude of vehicles, all of which are different weights, performance levels, have different suspension travel & damping rates. Real world cars can be sports cars, performance cars, limo's etc. As you can see, the vehicle alone introduces many variables also, add those mentioned above and you have a real dog's breakfast. Most manufacturers try to make different models of their brand to cater for these types of vehicle.

It would seem to me that the only way to truly compare tyres is by using machinery to simulate all the variables that tyres need to measure up to eg.

1. Load rating - Tyre on rim @ set pressure and hydraulicaly pressed onto rollers for a nominated number of hours.

2. Wear factor - Tyre rolling on abrasive roller for a nominated number of hours.

I won't labour you with all the other tests for Grip, Flexion etc.

This would at least enable a comparison of tyres by taking the track, weather & vehicle out of the equation, allowing more focus on the tyre only. 

Those types of tests and many more (for instance - testing to destruction) are carried out by each tyre manufacturer. Which gives them some confidence in their product before they put it out in the market place.

But, none of those tests or any others yet devised can give you definitive (or even reasonable guidelines) to this,,,,Fancy taking 1 brand of tyre and expecting it to work on a multitude of vehicles, all of which are different weights, performance levels, have different suspension travel & damping rates. Real world cars can be sports cars, performance cars, limo's etc. As you can see, the vehicle alone introduces many variables also, add those mentioned above and you have a real dog's breakfast. Most manufacturers try to make different models of their brand to cater for these types of vehicle.

Then you have to add the driver into the equation. For instance look at an F1 team or a V8 Supercar team. Two cars, two drivers. But do they set up each car identically? No. Each driver has his own preferences to get the best out of his car and personal performance.On top of that, in many family situations the car can have several drivers - Mum, Dad and one or more kids. And each of them will probably drive different road conditions.Back to the drawing board. ie Make friends with your local tyre dealer.

[Phil №❶]

Back to the drawing board. ie Make friends with your local tyre dealer.

That would be introducing another variable. 

[Surferdude]

Back to the drawing board. ie Make friends with your local tyre dealer.

That would be introducing another variable. 

Good thought but I see it the other way. It's creating a constant (the ongoing relationship between you and him).  It's only a variable if you keep changing dealers.

[constipated]

Can I have a relationship with my tyre dealer when I change tyres only once every 3 years. Even if I returned would they know me from a bar of soap (excuse the colloquialism).

[Surferdude]

Can I have a relationship with my tyre dealer when I change tyres only once every 3 years. Even if I returned would they know me from a bar of soap (excuse the colloquialism).

As I said above. Avail yourself of any after sales service they offer like free pressure checks and balances.
However, I agree if you only have one car in the family it's less easy. Certainly most of our regular customes have 2 or more family cars (including their kids').
And, if they're any good at all they'll have a computer generated reminder notice to let you know roughtly when you're getting due for another inspection.

[Dazzler]

We get the i30 and most of our previous cars (and the Hybrid when the 3 year fixed price servicing runs out) serviced at a Goodyear tyre place that my m8 works at. He looks after me with our services and gives me a sharp price on tyres too (his best prices seem to be on Goodyear or a couple of other cheaper brands they can get)

I am a bit keen on Michelin Energy Tyres when I replace the Hybrid ones later this year but might have to go with the Goodyear Equivilent (so as not to offend my M8 and his Bosses) 

But obviously I have a great relationship with my Tyre guy