[John B]

Further to my earlier post I would also like to add that I felt very vulnerable when I was stopped on my motorbike between the front and rear of cars in traffic . I felt it was much safer being able to go down the centre if possible. In slow moving traffic with cars just riding the clutch ,it would only take a driver of a car at the rear to slip off the clutch or through lack of attention crush a rider between the two cars. Just look at the amount of cars lately that have taken short cuts through shop fronts accidentally pushing the throttle pedal , imagine this happening to a rider .This is only my opinion .

[rustynutz]

Good post, John....

Yes, I whole heartedly agree, the incidence of rear end shunts are roughly a quarter of all accidents so it makes perfect sense for motorcyclists to use that part of the lane to keep out of trouble. At intersections I'd much rather stay in that position too instead of doing what many riders do which is to trickle to the front and then pull across in front of the vehicles already there.

What I don't get though is why lane filtering upsets so many drivers.
If they purposely kept to one side of the lane and made it easy for riders to pass there would be little likelihood of suffering any damage. But no, as we've already seen posted here, some drivers will go out of their way to block riders.

If only they used their brain and thought about it they just might realise that letting riders through can help ease congestion, but no, they'd rather force riders to sit in line like themselves....after all, we can't have them getting to their destination before we do can we? 

[John B]

Good Photo of what I was trying to explain thank's Rusty. I think the attitude of a lot of drivers is if I am stuck here so should you be . I  always try to get a good look at the bike and listen to how good it sounds and think good on you for being able to get further than us people that choose to sit in a car, after all it is our choice to drive a car rather than a motorbike ,if health allowed I would love to get back on a bike regardless of my age. My brother still rides motorbikes at the age of 70 and has 3 of them plus his car when it's raining  Waiting for the backlash now.

[rustynutz]

Good on you, John...and good on your brother for still riding at that age.... 

I just wish I could ride more, unfortunately rides are few and far between these days....Hasn't dampened my love for them though. 

[TheReaper]

Great attitude, Reaps....

Did it ever cross your mind that if you kept to the left damage is unlikely?

what if im in a middle lane???

[rustynutz]

Same thing...

[John B]

Great attitude, Reaps....

Did it ever cross your mind that if you kept to the left damage is unlikely?

what if im in a middle lane???

Hi Reaps as Rusty said if in middle lane or right hand lane keep over as far as possible to the right ,  I can assure you the last thing riders want to do is damage your car ,after all most riders also drive a car and they do understand how you feel. I urge you to give it a fair go and I think you may join Rusty and I on our attitude as would many others.

[The Gonz]

And remember when you're driving on French freeways in your Renault 21 Estate, stay as far over to the LEFT instead, despite naturally tending to the UK driver's side for your visibility, or you'll incur the wrath of the French motorcyclists, such as "Porc Anglaise!", not that this little Aussie has ever had this experience.

[TheReaper]

I will never convert to pro two wheels

[rustynutz]

You don't have to be pro 2 wheels, Reaps....you just need to respect that they have as much right to use the roads as any other road user. 

Purposely blocking riders is just another form of road rage, it is also possibly illegal as rule 125 states that a driver must not unreasonably obstruct the path of another driver or a pedestrian.

[The Gonz]

In any altercation, a rider will come off second best by a very long way - OK to give throw the balance in their favour.

[Surferdude]

You don't have to be pro 2 wheels, Reaps....you just need to respect that they have as much right to use the roads as any other road user. 

Purposely blocking riders is just another form of road rage, it is also possibly illegal as rule 125 states that a driver must not unreasonably obstruct the path of another driver or a pedestrian.

You might have trouble proving that if reaper has simply pulled up to one side of, but still within the marked lane.

[Doggie 1]

I find that pulling off to the outside of the lane works a treat.
Left in the left hand lane, right in the right hand lane.
That way, there is more room in between for the bikes.

[Surferdude]

I find that pulling off to the outside of the lane works a treat.
Left in the left hand lane, right in the right hand lane.
That way, there is more room in between for the bikes.

That's what I do too Dave. But I try really hard not to drive in traffic at all these days. 

[TheReaper]

You don't have to be pro 2 wheels, Reaps....you just need to respect that they have as much right to use the roads as any other road user. 

Purposely blocking riders is just another form of road rage, it is also possibly illegal as rule 125 states that a driver must not unreasonably obstruct the path of another driver or a pedestrian.

You might have trouble proving that if reaper has simply pulled up to one side of, but still within the marked lane.

well said... and use the road in the same fashion as everyone else.

[rustynutz]

You don't have to be pro 2 wheels, Reaps....you just need to respect that they have as much right to use the roads as any other road user. 

Purposely blocking riders is just another form of road rage, it is also possibly illegal as rule 125 states that a driver must not unreasonably obstruct the path of another driver or a pedestrian.

You might have trouble proving that if reaper has simply pulled up to one side of, but still within the marked lane.

On a multi lane road, yes....but on a single lane road he's required by law to keep as close as practical to the left side of the road....

[TheReaper]

Almost every bike rider that I have seen filter, is filtering to fast. It should be a crawl. Not a race to see if they can get to the front of the line. Too many idiots on bikes. And yeah maybe there are some of them that do it properly.  But until the control the jerk offs then they shouldn't be allowed.

[rustynutz]

and use the road in the same fashion as everyone else.

See, now this is your problem, because you drive a car you expect every other vehicle to behave like a car... 

[Doggie 1]

That's my issue too.
I have no problem with lane splitting when safe to do so.
But on the freeway when cars are doing 15-20 km/h in heavy traffic, some (not all) bikes race through at phenomenal speeds.

[TheReaper]

Just read that law about staying practical left. That is about staying left unless overtaking. Has nothing to do about being at a stop light.

Correction: on single lane roads as well stay practical left.

But still nothing about stop lights

[rustynutz]

Why would it need to mention stop lights? 

Too many idiots on bikes. And yeah maybe there are some of them that do it properly.  But until the control the jerk offs then they shouldn't be allowed.

There are jerkoffs driving cars too, should we just stop everyone else from driving while we're at it? 

Regardless of your anti motorcycle leanings, Reaps...these lane filtering laws are coming so you might just as well accept them... 

[Surferdude]

Reaper makes a good point regarding the speed at which bikes "filter". I too am often apprehensive about the speed at which they pass me when the traffic is stopped.  And they weave from lane to lane between cars, too.
Sure a lot do it right but the percentage who don't indicates a disregard for other road users.
There are all sorts of reasons why cars in traffic which stop at a red light are not geometrically lined up straight behind one another. It doesn't have to be a deliberate act.
There are also places where the lanes are noticeably narrower (older, inner city streets etc), and any form of filtering is dangerous.
Over the years I've lost count of the number of times I've seen side mirrors damaged by bike riders pushing through and misjudging the gap.
I've held an open motorcycle licence since I was about 25 - and rode unlicensed for years before that. For years I rode right across Brisbane from the southern suburbs to the far northern suburbs to work five times a week and managed to survive. I did that by being aware of the fact that in any argument with a car I was going to come off second best.
When I first got my (car) licence, someone gave me a bit of advice which I've never forgotten. They said something along the lines of, "Cemeteries are full of people who were in the right, but they're still dead."  I've never forgotten it but todays crop of motorcycle riders (a generalisation, I know) seem to be more concerned with being "in the right" at all costs.
It's a dangerous attitude.

[rustynutz]

Reaper makes a good point regarding the speed at which bikes "filter". I too am often apprehensive about the speed at which they pass me when the traffic is stopped.

Which is why, with the specific law allowing lane filtering in NSW, there will be a speed limit of 30kph.
I suspect, if lane filtering goes ahead in Queensland, and hopefully in other States, the speed limit will be the same.

There are all sorts of reasons why cars in traffic which stop at a red light are not geometrically lined up straight behind one another. It doesn't have to be a deliberate act.

I do realise that, but, as reaps admitted, drivers DO intentionally block motorcyclists at times...

I did that by being aware of the fact that in any argument with a car I was going to come off second best.

They said something along the lines of, "Cemeteries are full of people who were in the right, but they're still dead."

Good advice....and it's something I've always lived by.... 

I've never forgotten it but todays crop of motorcycle riders (a generalisation, I know) seem to be more concerned with being "in the right" at all costs.
It's a dangerous attitude.

Same thing with car drivers too, unfortunately... 

[FatBoy]

Forgive my ignorance, but isn't there a difference between "filtering" and "lane splitting"?  My understanding is that filtering is done when the traffic is stationary, lane splitting is done at speed and I believe, dangerous.  I don't think they are legalising lane splitting.

If I can help somebody get to their destination earlier and legally, then why not?

[rustynutz]

Forgive my ignorance, but isn't there a difference between "filtering" and "lane splitting"?  My understanding is that filtering is done when the traffic is stationary or slow moving, lane splitting is done at speed and I believe can be dangerous.  I don't think they are legalising lane splitting.

*Fixed
Otherwise quite right, Jamie....
Although technically lane splitting (and filtering) isn't illegal as things stand...

[FatBoy]

Thanks Rusty, you said what I was trying to say.   

[Surferdude]

IMO, 30 kph is still too fast if the traffic is stationary.

Quote from: Surferdude on Today at 18:11:35

    I've never forgotten it but todays crop of motorcycle riders (a generalisation, I know) seem to be more concerned with being "in the right" at all costs.
    It's a dangerous attitude.

Quote from Rustnutz.........
Same thing with car drivers too, unfortunately..

But my point is that it is MUCH MORE dangerous for a motorcyclist. See the cemetery comment.

[John B]

Having followed these postings with great interest I agree that 30 kms speed is too fast when filtering through traffic at a stand still or moving slowly, 15 kms would be more sensible allowing a motorcyclist the chance to stop if necessary , my main concern was the attitude of some "I can't get up the front so neither will you". There will always be controversy over the new rules but like it or not this is going to be the new law and if everybody is sensible it will work. Motorbikes are more vulnerable than cars for sure and it is up to car drivers to do the right thing and be more aware. There will always be the hotheads that give motorcyclist a bad name as there is car drivers but I like to think that once the testosterone has eased off a bit and we all settle into a calmer state of life we accept responsibility and are more tolerant of each other, it sure makes life a lot easier.

[TheReaper]

Why would it need to mention stop lights? 

Too many idiots on bikes. And yeah maybe there are some of them that do it properly.  But until the control the jerk offs then they shouldn't be allowed.

There are jerkoffs driving cars too, should we just stop everyone else from driving while we're at it? 

Regardless of your anti motorcycle leanings, Reaps...these lane filtering laws are coming so you might just as well accept them... 

they're already in affect in NSW lol

[rustynutz]

No they're not, they come into force July 1..... 

Lane filtering < Motorcyclists < Staying safe < NSW Centre for Road Safety