[Lakes]

Hi all,
thought it would be good to find out more about diesel Fuel's we have, whats good for the Common Rail injectors what's not good.
Saw Aussie Kieth mention Caltex has 10% bio i did not know this i think they should have it on the pump like E10 for petrol.
hope we can start a thread on this so anyone who has any info please post.

[TheReaper]

Morning Lakes.

So is the caltex diesel good to be using in the CRDi?

[rustynutz]

Saw Aussie Kieth mention Caltex has 10% bio i did not know this i think they should have it on the pump like E10 for petrol.

I've tried to confirm this but haven't been successful....maybe I'm going blind?.... 

http://www.caltex.com.au/FPL%20PDS/Vortex%20Premium%20Diesel.pdf

http://chemdata.lupinsys.com/getdoc/43450/msds

[Lakes]

Morning Lakes.

So is the caltex diesel good to be using in the CRDi?

Sorry was slow Reaps, i used to use Caltex vortex every fill with my first i30 CRDi did 97,000k no problem , but never got any better economy just motor seemed to run nice on it. but if it has bio diesel in it i won't be using unless they guarantee it , so as i'm deaf i can't phone around to ask, hope someone else can. as i think it's a good idea to find out what is best. BP guarantee there fuel but no BP close to me i would have to go down Bermagui, but nice place so nothing wrong with that, just i mostly head north & that's south.
so i got Shell or Caltex. or Mobile

[Just Rick]

You will find ALL the higher grade diesels have A percentage of bio in them,is the only way they can get the fuel to burn cleaner and have a cleaning effect,you be surprised what else they put in it.
I haven't done it with the diesels but I do have somewhere in the office,letters of Guarantee from both BP and Caltex for their 98 ron petrols,I have also been told that anything they put in their fuels,given it is below a certain percentage they do not have to list it in their Data sheets.

I doubt they'd make a fuel which would start damaging engines,this would be a financial disaster for them.

I have noticed that using the higher grade fuel(Vortex,I won't use BP on principal)I do get a little better economy.

[Aussie Keith]

I learned that Vortex deisel was not all mineral oil based when I did the original research for the FAQ. In the msds I reviewed at the time it stated that the missing 10% was methyl esters. Specifically it stated 0-10% methyl esters.  As I recall I checked the CAS code to determine it was soy based bio fuel. The currently available msds does not show this information and especially not the CAS code.

http://www.caltex.com.au/ProductsAndServices/Pages/VortexPremiumFuels.aspx
http://chemdata.lupinsys.com/getdoc/43450/msds

All this one says is :

diesel fuel 90-100%
non hazardous materials balance.

However: FAQs Biodiesel - More About Caltex BioDiesel - Caltex Malaysia

This is a statement from many older diesel msds around the place:  Methyl esters from lipid sources.

And here is an msds for soy based biodiesel. http://www.mnsoy.com/documents/Biodiesel_MSDS.pdf

General Product Name: Biodiesel
Synonyms: Methyl Soyate
Product Description: Methyl esters from lipid sources
CAS Number: 67784-80-9 << the magic number

So, what can be concluded from this? Initially I saw an msds which showed clearly up to 10% soybeans. The latest msds has obfuscated this detail stating "non hazardous materials". And yet if you check the various msds for diesel products you can see that it still shows up to 10% lipid fatty acids, aka biodiesel.


Finally this from 2007: http://www.caltex.com.au/sites/Marine/MSDS/Marine%20Gas%20Oil%20-%20MSDS.pdf

This has the magic CAS number. Note that its from their marine division but do check the various product names. It is reasonable to expect the product names to have changed in the intervening years. Only Caltex can tell us for sure but I am pretty sure the "non hazardous materials" are derived from beans - notwithstanding they have a CAS code.

So inconclusive however it runs fine in my car and I love the smell of tofu in the morning. 

Worth noting in other markets blended diesel has a B prefix to denote the ratio, for example B5 = 5% etc. never seen that here.

Biodiesel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I might contact Caltex and see what they have to say.

[Lakes]

  Good Stuff AK.

Rick What Stops you using BP?


I'm thinking a Korean Diesel will like Soy 

[FatBoy]

AK and Rick,

Thanks for the information!!   :good job:

FWIW, I have mostly used Caltex Vortex diesel in both our Hyundais (i30 and Terracan), without a problem.  I say mostly, as our local Caltex has being undergoing maintenance on the diesel tank, so it isn't available.  We have been using BP (sorry Rick) without any problems.

[Aussie Keith]

From Caltex via an email enquiry:

In addition to a straight diesel fraction, Vortex diesel's formulation allows for components such as lubricity additives, fuel system cleaner, defoamant, wax and up to 5.0% bio-component (FAME - Fatty Acid Methyl Ester) as per the attached sales specification (this means 4.9999r  - etc.) when the level actually reaches 5.0%, the product must be sold as B5 Diesel).. Typically, and depending upon the availability of bio diesel, premium diesels contain approximately 2% bio diesel.

There was a detailed technical specification attached to the email as well. It doesn't really add anything to the discussion.

Here endeth the mystery. Essentially a variable component of between 2 and 4.999% is biodiesel. If its 5% it needs to be sold as B5. Whether its beans or not is not stated. In Malaysia for example, i noted their FAME is palm oil based. However msds for some diesel products do indicate beans specifically.

[rustynutz]

Bloody palm oil, as if it's not in enough of our products.... 

[Doggie 1]

Thanks Keith. 

[Just Rick]

Good Stuff AK.

Rick What Stops you using BP?


I'm thinking a Korean Diesel will like Soy 

Lakes the biggest reason I don't use BP is they are simply out and out crooks,although they are happy to produce great products and are willing to Guarantee their products,I'm not sure about over in the eastern states,but here,all fuel supplied to all the fuel companies come form BP,then the other companies use their facilities to re-blend their own formula of fuel,99% of the other companies can and do supply fuel at greater cheaper prices than the company supplying it.

But having said that,due to circumstance yesterday I was in fact forced to use BP,the surprising thing was BP ultimate diesel at the station I got it from was actually 5 to 8 cents cheaper than it's competitors,so I'm hoping this will be a continuing trend by BP,plus recently,the station I have gone to for over thirty years,has not long turned into a BP and I have told them in no uncertain terms if they change their pricing to the BP format,I won't hesitate to change stations,from what I have heard many others I know who use the same station have told them the same,as they have always been one of the cheapest stations in the metro area

[The Gonz]

I've only ever used BP Ultimate out of the hiflo truck bowsers at less than average price.

[plasticphyte]

I've put diesel through my CRDi from Shell, BP, and Caltex. Out of those three, BP ran the worst. The engine felt rougher, and the performance was woeful; very poor acceleration.

Shell and Caltex seem about par. I prefer Caltex however, it seems to run smoother, plus having two Caltex pumps on the way to/from work with Diesel at every bowser helps.

I've had one BP fill, about six to eight Shell, and the rest have been Caltex.

[Lakes]

Good Stuff AK.

Rick What Stops you using BP?


I'm thinking a Korean Diesel will like Soy 

Lakes the biggest reason I don't use BP is they are simply out and out crooks,although they are happy to produce great products and are willing to Guarantee their products,I'm not sure about over in the eastern states,but here,all fuel supplied to all the fuel companies come form BP,then the other companies use their facilities to re-blend their own formula of fuel,99% of the other companies can and do supply fuel at greater cheaper prices than the company supplying it.

But having said that,due to circumstance yesterday I was in fact forced to use BP,the surprising thing was BP ultimate diesel at the station I got it from was actually 5 to 8 cents cheaper than it's competitors,so I'm hoping this will be a continuing trend by BP,plus recently,the station I have gone to for over thirty years,has not long turned into a BP and I have told them in no uncertain terms if they change their pricing to the BP format,I won't hesitate to change stations,from what I have heard many others I know who use the same station have told them the same,as they have always been one of the cheapest stations in the metro area

Thank's Rick, I be leave state to state they all use the one facilty, like NSW we had two Shell & Caltex with BP Mobile using the Caltex refinery.
not sure about that now.

when i was up Sydney this past month I got BP ultimate Diesel cheap one end of Sydney & saw it selling for up to 10cent per Liter more in other parts of Sydney, what i noticed about the Ultimate was there was no foaming at all on fill up, Caltex Vortex Diesel very low foam but still has some, both faster to fill than Mobile or Shell but have not seen Shell premium Diesel as yet.

[TimH]

My CRDi Tourer has done 5500kms now and have only fuelled it at two service stations. Vortex at the local Caltex and 3cent a litre cheaper BP on the way to work. I am finding that it regularly takes about 3 litres less at the BP but gives me the same range...

[Lakes]

That's strange Tim if i go till fuel light comes on then go say 40K i will get same amour in the tank no matter what brand of diesel if i brim it, just premium diesel easier to fill to brim than the foaming old type diesel

[Just Rick]

That's strange Tim if i go till fuel light comes on then go say 40K i will get same amour in the tank no matter what brand of diesel if i brim it, just premium diesel easier to fill to brim than the foaming old type diesel

I'm a bit like you I always fill to the second click,I generally fill at the same station every day,generally have done the same kilometers and which ever car I have at the time always take the same amount of Diesel,so many variants can give you the three litre difference,the only time it takes a different amount is if I have done more or less kilometers .