i30 Owners Club
FUEL ISSUES & ECONOMY => DIESEL => Topic started by: Phil №❶ on November 07, 2011, 05:54:33
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At the risk of offending others who have claimed exceptional economy, I would like to invite discussion on the merits / or not, of these devices.
Looking on the net at what's on offer, there seems to be claims made that -
1. You will get more power / torque
2. You will achieve better fuel economy
Frankly, I find it difficult to believe that you can have more power & use less fuel at the same time.
The only way to do this would be to make some astounding improvements to the engine efficiency. There would be a group of technicians at Hyundai whose job that would be.
I note as a matter of interest, the new I30 diesel engine of the same capacity has 128 bhp up from 115, so that's the best Hyundai can do.
So you see that the claims of +40% power, -20% fuel consumption leave me a bit sceptical.
Here is the link to just 1 of these devices.
http://www.chiptunning.eu/lang-en/hyundai/435-chiptuning-hyundai-i30-i6-crdi-115-hp.html (http://www.chiptunning.eu/lang-en/hyundai/435-chiptuning-hyundai-i30-i6-crdi-115-hp.html)
I want to be completely open minded about this and if you've got one and it works, I'd like to know. I promise I won't disbelieve you. But I would like to know which one & what the cost is.
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Hey Phil.. Nicely worded post :happydance:
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Dazzler
Thank you.
Last week's discussion on this subject ended sadly if you remember, with what I believe were unnecessary remarks about this forum, (not about me). I am genuinely interested in this topic because if the credibility can be verified, then there are significant gains for ALL diesel owners,,, if the price of the device is right. :)
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I suspect it's like anything, you can't use the extra power and expect to get better fuel economy, it's either one or the other.
Some chip tuning sites actually say that you'll get better economy if you don't change your driving style after fitting the chip.....
I note as a matter of interest, the new I30 diesel engine of the same capacity has 128 bhp up from 115, so that's the best Hyundai can do.
I'm sure that's not the best they can do.....
They only need to increase power enough to keep things in line with other manufacturers while keeping enough in reserve so they can do incremental increases throughout the rest of the model life.
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In my dim, dark, pre-i30 days, I used to drive a V8 Commodore. With that car, you could get the chip "tuned" to give you what you wanted. More power, more torque, more low down torque, better fuel economy, etc. Or a mixture of all of these things.
You can programme an engine to give you more power, torque and economy than the "out of the box" engine, but there is a cost. The car manufacturers program the chip to give the best all round performance, and RELIABILITY. They want the engine to last!! Once you start changing the settings, you may reduce the reliability and longevity of the engine.
Personally, I wouldn't change the factory settings of my i30, my Commodore though, had been modified to give better performance, but it did have a Cold Air Intake, cat-back extractors, lowered, etc. On the open road I would often get 9l/100km, and that was with 250+kw and 450+nm of torque. Oh, and my Commodore was out of warranty.
Just my two cents.
FatBoy
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Well said Jamie.. a few others have said similar things but you covered it in just a couple of paragraphs :goodjob:
I think Hyundai have got it just about right in the latest 6 speed CRDi by the sound of it :happydance: (without the need for a chip)
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Look, I'll tell you this. My previous i30 was chip tuned (quality ecu remap) from 90 hp to approx 115 hp. It really was much more power and much better torque. But when it comes to fuel economy it's like this.. It CAN be lower, but it usually isn't. The car has more power and struggles less when you are accelerating. It usually accelerates quickly and then you can keep driving with desired speed.
BUT, what happened with my i30. At first I was driving it about the same (but for very short time) and I think the fuel consumption was a bit better (but maybe 0,1-0,2 lit/100 km). Soon I started driving it faster (because it can go faster) and the fuel economy was about the same or little bit higher, and after a while, I started driving it "much" faster so the fuel economy in the end (diesel) was around 6,5-6,6 lit/100 km :lol: So went from 5,3-5,5 to 5,8-6,0 and then 6,0-6,6 :)
Now, thanks to the owner "neoto" I got information, that current i30's (face lifted models at least) can't be chip tuned (ecu remap) that easily for now - or maybe ever. You must do some physical changes to it, before it was just - plug, set the parameters and "play". They have new Bosch ECU's (Bosch EDC17) which are much better protected against these kind of actions. So this time, I went for the stock 116hp 6-speed version.
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The main question I have regarding tuning and fuel consumption - Would there be any difference if I drive 90% of time constantly in the 6th gear? When I ask this question to the 'tuning chip' dealers, I don't get any response from there anymore. It's weird...
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The main question I have regarding tuning and fuel consumption - Would there be any difference if I drive 90% of time constantly in the 6th gear? When I ask this question to the 'tuning chip' dealers, I don't get any response from there anymore. It's weird...
Sounds like you need to put our foot down :whistler: :rofl:
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Thanks everyone, for your replies.
Looks like chip tuning has some merit, but much less than what is claimed by the manufacturers. Even then, you have to decide whether to use the increased power or drive for economy.
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Hi Phil, I installed a tuning chip in January this year in my 2010 1.6CW CRDi auto wagon. The unit cost $108 from Germany and was a straight "in-line' installation. Easy to install and easy to remove.
I have definately noticed an improvment in power and acceleration at both low speed (in city traffic) and high spped (highway overtaking). The response of the motor is both smooth and nippy when I give it a punch. In fact, it is a very reassuring feeling knowing that the car has the ability to really get moving when needed.
As far as fuel consumption goes, I can honestly say that I have not noticed either an improvment or decrease in economy. I have always got between 6.6 and 7.4 l/100km depending on what type of driving (city/highway) that I do. I don't drive like a grandma or a hoon but do like to use the car's ability to get me where I'm going without wasting time.
My recommendation would be to give it a go and see if you think it's as good as I say and if you're not happy, simply remove it and sell it on the forum or ebay.
Here is the ebay site that I purchased mine from
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hyundai-I30-1-6-CRDi-116BHP-Chip-tuning-power-box-/200557400618?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2eb227122a (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hyundai-I30-1-6-CRDi-116BHP-Chip-tuning-power-box-/200557400618?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2eb227122a)
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I am using the "ASA Autotechnik ECO CR mit Bosch 1 adapter" and paid 99GBP posted to me in Australia. I purchased that on 09/01/2010 and have been using it ever since.I am also currently upto ~65,000km.
I found that as above, it gives the better lower kick and makes the car feel more powerful or atleast take off the line faster. I have driven without the tuning box as well, when I take the car for servicing, and I find that it loses that low kick and seems like it takes longer before the power comes to the wheels, its also a little dangerous going from tuning box to no tuning box as you think that the power will be there but there is alot longer time before the power hits the wheels.
I have no idea why the i30 doesn't come tuned like this to start with!
Fuel economy wise, I used to get about 4.7-4.9L/100km and now I still get around the 4.7-4.9L/100km range [even balance of highway and city], I do not drive anything like a granny and the only other modifications I have done are changing the air filter to a K&N panel filter and a lukey free flowing exhaust. I also only use Caltex Premium diesel as BP diesel makes a more rattley sound and seems to not be as smooth.
Other than that, I notice some white smoke on start up, but that is there even without the tuning box and I also notice that there is some smoke on heavy acceleration from stationary (not alot of smoke, just enough that I see it the smoke in the headlights of the car behind me, but when I asked my sister if she saw any smoke when she was in the car behind, she says no)
I find that the tuning box has been a great investment for me, but regardless of this, I still take it off when I go to get my i30 serviced.
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waja
Thanks, this is what I was looking for, people who have taken the plunge and can verify their actions with some historical data. You seem to verify previous statements that fuel economy is not greatly affected but performance boost is noticable. :goodjob:
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Anybody with chip, DPF and 50.000 km+ ?
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$500 spider in a U2 motor
default performance is subtly different, but I'll start tweaking it
fuel performance no measurable difference
I'm keeping the car for a decade so it's worth it for that, short term probably not
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$500 spider in a U2 motor
default performance is subtly different, but I'll start tweaking it
fuel performance no measurable difference
I'm keeping the car for a decade so it's worth it for that, short term probably not
Thanks.. keep the feedback coming please.. :goodjob:
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I've ordered the same one as UM. It's in transit from the land of Erich von Stalhein. :neutral:
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I've ordered the same one as UM. It's in transit from the land of Erich von Stalhein. :neutral:
I'm sure you'll be happy with it 84
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LOLZ i bought a chip... does nothing IMHO...
seriously i think it needs to be put on a dyno to see the difference...
unless im just too much of a non-beliver!
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It's a pity you can't see the extra power & torque in a different colour, then you'd know what it is doing. I think I am geting better fuel economy, but it's too soon to tell yet.
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In reply as to why a Manufacturer would not tune the car as standard it is I believe as per below (borrowed from Chip on Passionford.com)
"One of the key factors with modern diesel engines is the injection timing, which is essentially the same as ignition timing on a petrol engine.
To avoid NOX values falling outside of the parameters they are allowed within when selling a new car the manufacturers often have to retard the injector timing to stop the diesel burning fully as NOx emissions tend to happen in the later stages of burn.
By advancing the timing back to where the manufacturer would have liked to have put it if their hands werent tied by legislation, it can normally improve both power and economy without a need to raise boost pressure.
Some remaps then also introduce a little more boost as well"
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Hi ho Wilverine & welcome to this forum.
The diesel already has an EGR valve to reduce NOX emissions, as you say, maybe even with this valve injection retarding may also be necessary. A good point has been raised elsewhere about voiding your insurance because it's an engine modification.
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my insurer has a box to tick under modifications called computer chip, so it's sweet
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LOLZ i bought a chip... does nothing IMHO...
seriously i think it needs to be put on a dyno to see the difference...
unless im just too much of a non-beliver!
i agree but make sure its a conservative Dyno, not a Dyno Dynamics
i've read all the posts & read what Alan said.
i'm happy with how the CRDi 6 speed goes as it comes seems to improve with age.
i think if i wanted more i'd get LPG injection. but won't happen.
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I've "chiptuned" my I30 through software upgrades. Power is higher and consumption is lower. It purely depends on how I drive it. The company that made the modification clearly said so aswell. "Your fuel consumption will be lower, if you drive it properly. You'll notice the power increase, at the cost of the consumption."
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It's a pity you can't see the extra power & torque in a different colour, then you'd know what it is doing. I think I am geting better fuel economy, but it's too soon to tell yet.
You chip tuned your i30? And getting better economy?
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That is what it seems to indicate, however, actual fuel used vs distance travelled highlighted a discrepancy in the last tank, so for me, the jury's out at the moment. However, my theory is that although torque & power are supposed to have been increased, by driving conservatively I ask the engine to do less revs with earlier change points (auto) and don't use the extra power unless I need to. :neutral:
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Thats the whole point of 20% chip tuning!
Drive normally and you get better economy + when you need to overtake or accelerate faster for any reason you have that nice extra power.
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Exactly. :goodjob2:
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I can understand how a Diesel Tunner making a map then testing the tune on a dyno to increase power & Torque works.
But the tuning box that just plugs into the common rail could not control the ECU or does it? i'm not claiming to know just asking.
i'm thinking the box plugged into the common rail would be just to try to raise fuel pressure in common rail. i'm thinking a change to larger injectors could increase this effect.
i have watched flow testing of injectors & trying to increase flow, but some injectors have a limit, then you need to go up to an injector that flows more fuel. this does not mean more fuel useage, sometimes this is unchanged sometimes you use more. too many variables like not just how you drive but were and how many in car how much weight & so on.
good discusion
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@Lakes
Well, i dont know about larger injectors effect other than what you said seems logical. However, what about the price? I hear injectors are extremely expensive.
"i'm thinking the box plugged into the common rail would be just to try to raise fuel pressure in common rail."
Why would you want to change anything else?
More than this implies ecu flash i think.
This is only thing that is important as i see it. You have injectors working at a little higher pressure, making them cleaner and still within factory tolerance. nothing else doesnt need to be controlled. no?
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@Lakes
Well, i dont know about larger injectors effect other than what you said seems logical. However, what about the price? I hear injectors are extremely expensive.
"i'm thinking the box plugged into the common rail would be just to try to raise fuel pressure in common rail."
Why would you want to change anything else?
More than this implies ecu flash i think.
This is only thing that is important as i see it. You have injectors working at a little higher pressure, making them cleaner and still within factory tolerance. nothing else doesnt need to be controlled. no?
Yes i'm sure the larger injectors would not be cheap.
i'm thinking the i30 CRDi 6 speed i have now has different injectors than the 5 speed i30 CRDi i had from 08 to 11 , they look the same but the part # on them is different. i also think it runs a higher pressure in the commonrail. it deffinately pulls smoother in all gears from lower rev's, the 5 speed would sometimes get jerky spots in different gears, but i was used to it. this 6 speed also shifts gear quicker & smoother 5 speed was notchy but also i was used to that, too.
so what i'm thinking is the tuning box raises fuel pressure & this in turn atomizes the fuel better to get a better burn but i'm just guessing.
i'm happy how mine runs now, so i'll just leave it.
i think if someone that knows how to tune a diesel re mapped the ECU software & had the use of a good Dyno to test there ajustments, that would be the best. but then again, more Power & More Torque costs $ in long run. not say in just fuel useage but say in Tyre wear, transmission wear, drive train wear & so on.
but more TQ = more enjoyment, specially going up big hills!
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I cant verify if the injectors are the same or not.
Do oyu know the difference between 1.6 crdi, 2.0crdi in i30 and 184hp diesel in ix35?
Thing you notice perhaps is difference in gears ratio? In 6sp manual you have 6 short speeds rather then 5 long, and that can be linked to better response.
"so what i'm thinking is the tuning box raises fuel pressure & this in turn atomizes the fuel better to get a better burn but i'm just guessing. "
I said that long time ago on this forum and many of you were like no way, more horses, more food and that simply it is not possible to get more hp and better economy. I read topic about not being able to get tuning box on 1.6 crdi because of some Bosch protection of ECU hehehehe pure laughter :mrgreen:
"but then again, more Power & More Torque costs $ in long run. not say in just fuel useage but say in Tyre wear, transmission wear, drive train wear & so on. "
Give a car to an idiot and he will destroy stock setup in 500kilometers!
You have few posts up 847563 reply, does he think normal driving can do any damage on his tuned car? This is all that matters.
How much in lets say percentage you use that extra power? Is it possible to say that you reduce life span of mentioned parts by that much? Say 15%? Is it important on 200.000km that transmission need to last atlest?
Dyno tune is irrelevant. When you have tuning box with either preset values or like mine new with install cd and usb to tweak the map, you need to know what you are doing. No dyno test will save your car from noob tuner.
Mine new map is via USB corrected factory map to get me better boost from 1500rpm for easier driving and linear torque across entire diagram.
Dude in hyundai that made this said: "doing corrections on factory made map is childs play compared to creating not existing map for 360hp hyudnai coupe 2.0T".
More tq= more fun, true, use it wisely and no harm done :goodjob:
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thats all True Xamaxy. i have a number of friends that own Dyno's & know how to use them properly, all they are is a Tool to test your work, same as a Flow Bench is also a tool to test your work on increasing air flow. it's all of interest to me. with Diesel i've been told if they run too rich they run hot, with petrol if they run too lean they run hot. Australia gets hot in Summer, it's summer now, but my CRDi loves it warm. Hey Xamaxy if i could have a 2.0 CRDi i30 i would have it! as more engine capacity more TQ & HP theere is always a limit to what you can get from a small motor.
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What are your thoughts on free flow exhaust in context with this temp increase?
Since CRDi has many silencers, catalytic converters etc they got to be strain on turbo since they are, im guessing, very restrictive in getting hot air as fast as possible out?
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What are your thoughts on free flow exhaust in context with this temp increase?
Since CRDi has many silencers, catalytic converters etc they got to be strain on turbo since they are, im guessing, very restrictive in getting hot air as fast as possible out?
I imagine it would be illegal to remove the catalytic converter, Lakes and myself amongst others tried a "cat back" free flowing 2" system with minimal success (in my case a nicer exhaust note but little or no improvement to performance or economy) I will try and find the old but well subscribed thread and post a link here...
There are about 7 pages and although early feedback was positive results were mixed and generally disappointing :undecided:
https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=109.msg500#msg500 (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=109.msg500#msg500)
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Nice.
Well, that illegal removal is biggest crap ever invented. Last week i went for yearly insurance and technical check up and i passed eco-test without slight trouble!
In fact minimum values in all fields.
Well, that pretty much solves this topic :d
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Nice.
Well, that illegal removal is biggest crap ever invented. Last week i went for yearly insurance and technical check up and i passed eco-test without slight trouble!
In fact minimum values in all fields.
Well, that pretty much solves this topic :d
You removed your Catalyst Converter?
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Yes.
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Here are today's figures for our car fitted with a french fry.
Computer indicates 5.7 l/100 kms, as I suspected, there is a variation because of the FF.
Distance travelled 783.6 k
Cost $80.88 @$1.529 = 52.879 Lts. Result 6.751 l/100k or 41.846 mpg
For an auto, I don't think that's too bad. :neutral:
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Hi Phil
That is quite good for an auto but 1LPH is a big difference between Computer and actual (much bigger than usual) are you saying the Computer was reset when this tankful was started?? :eek:
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I reset all, at every fill. BTW average was 44km/h. Wifey is harder on the go pedal than me too. :neutral:
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I got one of those -nolimit tuning box from ebay posted from (germany)
Still finetuning with it as it came on setting 7 of 12 and I keep getting the CEL (after the first drive then turn the car back on and the CEL is on) not sure what Ive done so far to clear it, ive tried disconnecting the - terminal and also a couple of start and stops on the original cr plug and its gone)
Ive also tried it on setting 1 (lowest) and this was fine around town but on the highway it seemed to struggle and shudder trying to get from 100 to 110 (fuel starvation ?)
Im hoping to try it on settings 2 - 6 and hopefully dont get the CEL but get that extra kick lower in the rev range that I get from setting 7 (until the CEL light).
economy - cant tell until I get a stable setting.
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It is just that - a case of try-and-see with the settings I'm afraid.
Can't remember getting a CEL when I played with mine tho. Do you have a trouble code reader?
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Unforunately no - dont have a reader... be interesting to know what its complaining about (especially dont want setting 1 that was worse than stock at 110kph yet didnt throw the CEL back on...)
no-limit advised me there is a little green led in the box that should be green when ign is on and then something else when you start car then rev to 3000rpm.. hopefully they will provide more answers on this new bit of info (which was not in the instruction sheet provided :rolleyes:)
(As i mentioned i somehow cleared the latest CEL from displaying) and have set the box to level 5 tonite - will hopefully start it tomorrow and have no CEL but the power of level 7)....
Would have been better to be able to use level 12 :evil: :whistler: but until I can find what the error code is this is a bit out of reach...