i30 Owners Club
THE GARAGE (SERVICE, MAINTENANCE & REPAIR) => PETROL => Topic started by: 2xcatz on January 09, 2018, 07:22:47
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How does one remove a 2012 i30 manual petrol motor? Up thru the bonnet opening or drop the lot out underneath the car?
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How does one remove a 2012 i30 manual petrol motor? Up thru the bonnet opening or drop the lot out underneath the car?
Well, I'm sure there will be some opinions on this one. Gary @nzenigma I'm sure will have some clever ideas.
In the factory the whole front end , stering rack, egine / trans are assembled onto this.
(https://razborka.ua/files/images/shop/big/ms-153750.jpg)
and then that is raised up to the body and bolted on.
The alternate obviously is up out through the bonnet. I did a whole transplant for a diesel that way but it was tight and required some interesting manouvres to get it in.
I removed the front , bumper , headlights etc. Disconnected the control arms, strut towers and removed the hub and shafts in their entirety, all harnesses fuel lines etc disconnected then removed the engine and trans as one unit.
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If it is just the motor, no other issues, take the bonnet off and lift it up and out. If you have clutch issues etc etc ,drop the whole sub frame .
Any reason other than an oil filter change that you are asking this question ? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Have a major oil leak problem around the front main bearing cap after having replaced the sump gasket. Even with this replacement oil is still being pumped out so we suspect that is an internal issue such as a cracked main bearing cap or block. As the car is still at a dealership service centre and they are still trying to diagnose the oil leak and having paid $300 for a new sump gasket I have made enquiries for a 40,000 km long motor for the right price, I thought that this would be a cheaper option than leaving it with the service centre to fix the problem. I can arrange for a mechanic friend to replace the motor but he needs to know which way the motor has to come out as I would like to replace the clutch assembly at same time which I thought was attached to the engine flywheel and would come out with the motor leaving the gearbox and drive train in situ.
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Have a major oil leak problem around the front main bearing cap after having replaced the sump gasket. Even with this replacement oil is still being pumped out so we suspect that is an internal issue such as a cracked main bearing cap or block. As the car is still at a dealership service centre and they are still trying to diagnose the oil leak and having paid $300 for a new sump gasket I have made enquiries for a 40,000 km long motor for the right price, I thought that this would be a cheaper option than leaving it with the service centre to fix the problem. I can arrange for a mechanic friend to replace the motor but he needs to know which way the motor has to come out as I would like to replace the clutch assembly at same time which I thought was attached to the engine flywheel and would come out with the motor leaving the gearbox and drive train in situ.
? Is this FD series 2L motor, G4GC?
There is no sump gasket. Should be FIPG, (ThreeBond TB1217H or equivalent)
SO what's the history of this? How does a front main bearing cap leak outside of the engine? Where';s that thought coming from?
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(https://images.ilcats.ru/getImage.php?catalog=hyundai&filename=KAUSPJD0/20213B11.png&hash=760dadd51cfb62b50673ea28a464cb33)
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(https://images.ilcats.ru/getImage.php?catalog=hyundai&filename=KAUSPJD0/20215B11.png&hash=3aa75c2ab37cf7b586c9632c4480d40a)
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Is a G4GC engine which has done ~96,000 km and until this oil leak, which was noticed just prior to Christmas, has been problem free. The information I’ve provided in previous post has come from the service centre which is currently trying to fix the issue.
Please note that when driving through a very heavy rain storm in early November I did hear a knocking sound, but which was put down to the windscreen wipers working overtime.
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Is a G4GC engine which has done ~96,000 km and until this oil leak, which was noticed just prior to Christmas, has been problem free. The information I’ve provided in previous post has come from the service centre which is currently trying to fix the issue.
Please note that when driving through a very heavy rain storm in early November I did hear a knocking sound, but which was put down to the windscreen wipers working overtime.
96000k , and 2012 model just outside warranty and serviced no doubt. seems premature.
Well that's a shame , was hoping to get clarification where it's leaking out from. For me you have the sump, or the mating surfaces of the oil pump and block, the front seal or maybe cracked pump housing??
Hope you get it sorted.
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Well that's a shame , was hoping to get clarification where it's leaking out from. For me you have the sump, or the mating surfaces of the oil pump and block, the front seal or maybe cracked pump housing??
@2xcatz hasn't told us how HE knew there was a leak and where He saw it coming from.
Lets assume he has the knowledge of Mr. average modern motorist, therefore, he saw oil coming from behind the front pulley. Thats a long way from the bearing cap. I would be looking at the pump housing. Great minds think alike @tw2005 :goodjob2:. :D
Theoretically, a piece of pump impeller breaking loose could explain the knocking sound and cracked housing.
Surely $300 for a tube of FIPG is fair :rolleyes: or is that the day rate for the apprentice who found this all too challenging.
To the original question on pulling the motor out, motor and box can come out the top using an engine hoist. Its tight but doable with the upper engine mounts removed.
BUT,at 96,000km the motor is still good for another 200,000km. Unless you are a left foot barbarian, the clutch will also have plenty of life.
My advice is to find a good oldtimer local mechanic who is experienced in all makes. Discuss the above points with him and repair the motor in the car. Never go near a dealer ex-warranty.
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2012 just out of warranty and under 100k.
Your dealer is much happier charging through the nose to change oil and sell stupidly priced add ons to the unaware (addatives, A/C treatments etc) to really want to do much they dont percieve they have to.
Ask around for a good honest mechanic who can work out what the issue is and fix it.
If you want to have some fun, seek some advice from the ACCC as to how long an engine can reasonably be expected to run without bleeding oil. Your rights in this area are law and above and beyond any warranty offered by Hyundai.
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Thank you for your suggestions and exploded views that you provided they have been most helpful. Since my first request, as I was fearing the worse and thought I was going to have to replace the motor as I was getting messed around with the dealership. The problem was that the car was with the dealership for just under a week and the diagnosis was the front crankshaft seal has been popping out and obviously is making a mess on their workshop floor. The dealership admitted to me that they did not install a sump gasket nor use any sealant as it was purely a front crankshaft seal problem. Having replaced the front seal twice I decided to take the car from the dealership service centre. Knowing that I was going to be losing oil as soon as I drove it from the dealership premises I went prepared with a 5 litre container of oil and funnel and started to travel to my motor mechanic. After travelling 5 km I checked the oil level, topped it up then called for tow truck for the rest of the journey. On arrive at my mechanics premises and driving it 5 m to get it on to the hoist he could not believe the amount of oil that had been left behind.
The diagnosis with the seal is that it appeared as though it was being pushed out by oil pressure. Yesterday my mechanic thought that there could be a problem with a faulty oil filter or a heavier grade oil which the dealership had used? The last seal, which the dealership installed, hadn't been damaged at all so it was cleaned up, along with the oil mess around the end of the sump. The motor was filled up with the correct oil and a new filter installed. The car ran for a couple of minutes with no leaks occurring. There were a couple oil runs being detected from the set screws that go into the oil pump and there was evidence of no sealant being used on these two screws even though one or both are screwed into an oil way. After using some sealant on these screws and starting the car up again the seal popped out again - the car was immediately shut down.
My mechanic this morning discovered, when installing the new seal, that he could use a pin punch to push the seal approximately 3 mm further into the front case recess unlike the previous time when the seal was flush with the timing case. At the same time he disconnected the electronic oil sender and installed a capillary oil gauge and the pressure read 75 psi or 5 bar only a for short time as he didn't want to upset the ECU.
Question 1: Now that we know the seal can go in an additional 3 mm is there a way to keep the seal in place to prevent it from popping out again?
Question 2: Is the oil pressure noted above normal or too high?
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Im a bit short on time at the moment. Need to check on oil pressure, but it seems to be too high, especially if this was taken at idle. The system will have a pressure relief valve to overcome hi pre at hi revs.
Don't think the 3mm is relevant. Assume it is the correct seal, usually fit all the way into recess and is flush with the front.
@tw2005 may have time to do some reading.
Will look in later.
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Engine oil pressure at 1500 RPM
[Oil temperature is 90 to 110°C 194 to 230°F)]
245KPa (2.5kg/cm², 35.5psi)
This is out of the FD series, assuming this is what yours is.
Only time I've ever had a seal come out was because it was so old it shrunk. they're usually fairly firm and need to be installed straight. I can't imagine the force required to push the whole seal out.
2142123020 , 37.6х49х7.5mm
(http://www.cardon.com.ua/partsimg/HYUNDAI_KIA/2142123020/2142123020_1.jpg)
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Engine oil pressure at 1500 RPM
[Oil temperature is 90 to 110°C 194 to 230°F)]
245KPa (2.5kg/cm², 35.5psi)
This is out of the FD series, assuming this is what yours is.
Only time I've ever had a seal come out was because it was so old it shrunk. they're usually fairly firm and need to be installed straight. I can't imagine the force required to push the whole seal out.
2142123020 , 37.6х49х7.5mm
(http://www.cardon.com.ua/partsimg/HYUNDAI_KIA/2142123020/2142123020_1.jpg)
:goodjob2:
Thanks mate, just had a spare 5mins and it seems too high. Oil relief valve? As you indicate, why would it pop? can only be pressure.
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Hi Guys, Thanks for your valued input and, by the way, my mechanic is of the old school and thinks about the problem and just doesn't replace parts willy-nilly.
While the oil pressure gauge was still in situ he could see that the relief valve was working and that why he thought the oil pressure stated was not out of the ordinary. Either way the motor is a G4GC petrol motor. When installing the latest seal he observed that there was a slight taper at the bottom of the seal hole which enables the seal to be inserted and then drifted all the way home. Because of this he has assumed that the seal is all the way home he was under the impression that it was right into the tapered section and hence the correct pressure will be held on the seal OD. Because of all of the oil that has been splashed in the area we are replacing the cam belt because it was soaked with oil.
Once you have confirmed what the oil pressure should be and I have heard back from you, my mechanic is going to reassembled everything and then gurney/Karcher underneath the whole car as there is oil from end-to-end.
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.......................................Once you have confirmed what the oil pressure should be and I have heard back from you, my mechanic is going to reassembled everything and then gurney/Karcher underneath the whole car as there is oil from end-to-end.
Who is you? I've quoted straight from the manual already, over to your mechanic now. Surely he'll rectify this oil blowout issue first before any timing belt attempt
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Yes it is an FD series.
Is there a way to decrease the pressure from the current 75 psi down to 35 psi?
In the past, and even now, the mechanic is use to working on A and B series BMC motors and to increase oil pressure you can put a spacer or stronger spring in the relief valve. So with that philosophy he is talking about dropping the sump to get to the relief valve to replace the relief valve altogether or can the spring pressure be tampered with?
Cam belt will be replaced when the original oil problem is rectified.
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Yes it is an FD series.
Is there a way to decrease the pressure from the current 75 psi down to 35 psi?
In the past, and even now, the mechanic is use to working on A and B series BMC motors and to increase oil pressure you can put a spacer or stronger spring in the relief valve. So with that philosophy he is talking about dropping the sump to get to the relief valve to replace the relief valve altogether or can the spring pressure be tampered with?
Cam belt will be replaced when the original oil problem is rectified.
those exploded views suggests that the relief valve is external of the sump and part of the pump. As to any other mod that is out of my scope.
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Yes it is an FD series.
Is there a way to decrease the pressure from the current 75 psi down to 35 psi?
In the past, and even now, the mechanic is use to working on A and B series BMC motors and to increase oil pressure you can put a spacer or stronger spring in the relief valve. So with that philosophy he is talking about dropping the sump to get to the relief valve to replace the relief valve altogether or can the spring pressure be tampered with?
Cam belt will be replaced when the original oil problem is rectified.
those exploded views suggests that the relief valve is external of the sump and part of the pump. As to any other mod that is out of my scope.
Sorry to tw for leaving him with this one, {mate :goodjob: } but little I can add to your reasoning.
If the 1500 rpm pressure differs from 35 psi ( higher) then your mechanic has to accept that this is the reason for previous oil loss AND PROBABLY the reason why the current oil seal has been forced 3mm forward..
MORE Below
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This is the whole pump assembly. And it's more apparent now to me at least that that front lip is forming part of the mating surface to the sump. So that's a bummer, hoped it was actually forward of the sump.
(https://avtoopt.in.ua/imgs/000/252/027/47210.jpg)
2131023002
about $160 delivered from Koraps in Korea
Relief spring
2612335000
Relief plunger
2612235000
example , not actual items
(http://izhevsk.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/011577/11577409.jpg)
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Not sure if you are aware of this @2xcatz , but this has potential.
@tw2005 was asking me if I had experienced excess crankcase pressure pushing seals out. This has been suggested by @crayman thanks to him, it could solve your oil loss.
Personally, I have not had the problem but recently it was claimed that the rear crankshaft seal in a BMW was popped out by a faulty positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) valve. If blocked the valve can cause high crankcase pressure. Suggest your mechanic investigates this.
It is also suggested that your mechanic could have blocked drain holes behind the front seal when he pushed it back 3mm.
I note however, that the seal was correctly fitted flush with the front of the case when he got it but was still losing heaps of oil.
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More Musing :confused: sorry.
Been sleeping on this one and have come back to suspect that oil pressure is causing the seal to pop.
The oil seal is at the front of , and is part of, the oil pump assembly; behind the pump is #1 main bearing. If the main was fractured, oil would simply dump down into the sump.
While you could argue that the oil seal forms part of the PCV system, it is called an oil seal and has had this function long before PCV was introduced in about the 1970s.
Excessive crankcase pressure cant be ruled out, but before looking for an oil seal that is being forced out of the engine by THIS pressure, I would be looking skyward searching for the oil dipstick.
The modern dipstick has a rubber seal at the top to maintain PCV. Problem PCV pressure can be spotted by simply pulling the stick up while the engine is running
While I was discussing this with @tw2005 , I said that I hadn't had this sort of problem. Sorry mate, I have been trying to forget that infamous diesel Navara. They have the same type of oil pump arrangement as does the i30. True to Navara form, one of the rotors in the pump fractured and the workshop started to fill with new oil. It flowed straight past the seal that was still in situ.
We still don't know what the noise was that @2xcatz heard. Possibly nothing or.... something breaking in the pump??
So my best theory is this:, if a small piece of material (metal) was drawn into the oil pump and got wedged between the two concentric rotors, this would fracture one or both of them. However, they could remain in place and continue to operate, but some oil would be forced out against the seal.
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Thanks for the info on price pump assembly shipped from Korea.
As time is against me are you able to give me an approximate price if locally sourced for the pump assembly?
You guys are obviously part of the Hyundai organisation or just dead keen enthusiasts and am once again thankful for all of the information that you've been providing.
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Thanks for the info on price pump assembly shipped from Korea.
As time is against me are you able to give me an approximate price if locally sourced for the pump assembly?
You guys are obviously part of the Hyundai organisation or just dead keen enthusiasts and am once again thankful for all of the information that you've been providing.
Keen Enthusist borderline OCD. So no, can't help with local but expect a rude shock. Even aftermarket I find they price themselves to OEM pricing. I've learnt over time to use the web very successfully, downside is if you need it today/tomorrow offshore is an issue.
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Oh, one of the reasons I put that image of the pump up. It's OEM original and it includes the front seal factory fitted . Not bad as a reference on how deep it sits which to me looks like it's flush to the outer surface or very close to that.
(https://www.proxyparts.com/upload/parts/100124/133024/large/0.jpg)
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Just doing some youtubing. Just found something which I have not viewed yet but sounding familiar.
@nzenigma @2xcatz @crayman
Just checked on Crayman's PM which mentioned end float. The video is of a 2011 Elantra Touring (AKA in this instance i30CW, Petrol G4GC 2.0L manual) with popping seal and worn out thrust bearings. There are 3 parts.
In it he states 2011 model purchased in 2012 with 25000k, at about 90000k it blew a seal and dumped it's oil.
also refers to it as mainseal but all the imagery and what he mentions suggests actually front crank seal. Also being a manual I'd expect everytime the clutch is depresed if this has gone and there is end float the crank would be moving forward with every gear change.
First seal replacement lasted 3 hours(sound familiar)
Second attempt by Hyundai dealer lasted a little longer.
Second trip to dealer apparantly diagnosis is front thrust bearing gone and dropped into sump.
He also challenges Hyundai for warranty repair.
I'd be documenting everything because if I had something with this mileage, and if serviced correctly etc etc I'd be requesting out warranty assistance. That's my opinion if this is the case.
There are some other comments too under the youtubes.
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oDvB1TGtBE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oDvB1TGtBE)
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH00QCtNFBE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH00QCtNFBE)
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhvRxpUkErU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhvRxpUkErU)
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Uh oh :faint:
:link: thrust washer/bearing (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=34696.0)
Let's not forget too they said they replaced the sump gasket and charged for it! Right. . So what if the thrust bearing has also landed in this sump?
Of course that would be detected by the sump removal by the dealer? Just throwing some controversy out there.
What does the paperwork state?
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(https://i.imgur.com/0pppZ49.jpg)
(http://www.2040-parts.com/_content/items/images/56/735456/001.jpg)
End play should be no more than 10 thou
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You guys are obviously part of the Hyundai organisation :whistler:
Keen Enthusist borderline OCD. So no, can't help with local but expect a rude shock. Even aftermarket I find they price themselves to OEM pricing. I've learnt over time to use the web very successfully, downside is if you need it today/tomorrow offshore is an issue.
Good answer mate don't dob in the wealthy brothers Dazz and Shambles Hyundai until we get our techo fees
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Gerard, Just looked at your Utube research. :goodjob2:
First things first. I've come across old motors with crank end play; but the shaftshaft just moves in and out of the seal. The seal stays in place and will probably only leak a bit of oil. I have NEVER had to 'glue' a new oil seal into the recess.
The Canadian utube guys are being straight forward but are being jerked around by their garage and dealer. Of the latter hard to tell who is on the ball and what the hell fault they have found.
Similarly, 2xcats dealer has taken the sump off and found what???????????????????????????????? Was it nothing or has he closed the patient in the hope it will go away and die in someone else's driveway?
If the end play shims have fallen out it will be fairly obvious, 1. they will be in the sump, 2. the crankshaft can move back and forward a few mm. Measurable and fixable. Why would you need to replace the motor? :spitty:
#2 Canadian is more cynical. He has been told that the oil seal seat has gone oval, what crap!! Jezz if only I could get this dealer on the witness stand..... looking at life!
2 cats mechanic will need to drop the sump and look at all the possible faults we have come up with: end play ,PCV , high oil pressure, fractures in oil pump, etc. NO need to replace the motor.
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Yes guys the service centre said over the phone that they had replaced the sump gasket but in talking to them face-to-face I said to them that there was no sump gasket and he said that they hadn't installed a "sump gasket" nor did they charge for same.
Gentlemen, your blood is worth bottling!!!!!! As armed with the knowledge that was displayed on the three YouTube videos from Canada, and your written words, I showed my mechanic this afternoon. I wasn't sure that he believed what he saw when I depressed the clutch pedal without the cam belt connected to its pulley, but when he saw the end of the crankshaft come towards him approx. 3mm, like the thickness of a paper thick thrust bearing, he then removed the sump. After removing the exhaust manifold, the sump was removed and we were both looking for thrust washes in the bottom of the sump, but alas there was only a little bit of metal in the lower section of the sump. He then removed the centre main bearing cap complete with thrust bearings and said "one looks in tact, but the other isn't all there". The thrust bearing towards the oil pump looked in tact but the other trust bearing facing the flywheel was paper thin.
Also the crankshaft web around where the thrust bearing faces has been scored so they can't say that they will replace the crankshaft only. In addition, the face where the thrust bearing has been installed is also scored as the crankshaft web was wearing against this face.
So armed with both thrust bearings, which I also have in my possession, I'm going to the Hyundai dealership where the vehicle was purchased, to complain about their poor design and to insist that Hyundai replaced the motor with a new one. I let you know tomorrow what the outcome is.
Some of what was done this afternoon has been recorded on video, but home technology is letting me down, so I will post this video tomorrow when I get to work.
Once again everyone thanks for you help with this problem and I will inform Hyundai what a poor design fault this is, by only have two half thrust bearings being used and my mechanic will do away with the interlock that is currently wired so that the clutch must be depressed upon start up.
It is interesting that unlike my MGB and Midget motor which have four halves at the centre main bearing cap, there are only the half thrust bearings - obviously to reduce cost.
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All I can say is "wow, unbelievable ".
Have been following post, no doubt others are as well, with interest.
Thanks tw and nz for your brain racking and thoughts, :clapthanks:
2catz - you've gotta be bald by now !, hang in there :Good_luck:
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Glad the brains trust is in full flight.
What an adventure! :crazy2:
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Glad the brains trust is in full flight.
What an adventure! :crazy2:
Bet you're glad you have the diesel! Hmmm, so do I x 3 :whistler: :rofl:
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Guys, Have a neighbour with the same vintage i30 which is a manual diesel, I'm assuming it won't be affected by the same issue - can you please confirm that this is the case so that I can pacify him?
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Guys, Have a neighbour with the same vintage i30 which is a manual diesel, I'm assuming it won't be affected by the same issue - can you please confirm that this is the case so that I can pacify him?
No idea but I have a 378000K example and it's fine looking all original(just repalced a blown turbo, something's gotta give along the way :rofl:)
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Guys, Have a neighbour with the same vintage i30 which is a manual diesel, I'm assuming it won't be affected by the same issue - can you please confirm that this is the case so that I can pacify him?
To be honest, these were the observer's best theories. I've complained to tw previously that the i30 motor is so reliable that they are almost impossible to kill; or to sell after being stripped from a write off vehicle.
Consequently, about the only time I need to work on the engine internally is after someone's wife has gashed the sump and continued to drive it to seizure.
I praise your mechanic too. :goodjob2:
He has done what nobody else has done ( include Utube examples) and has gone old school, actually worked on the motor and found the fault.
It could be that Hyundai have had a batch of bad thrust washers, or more likely an issue with the crank journal .
Could also be others out there that have failed but will only become apparent if the seal pops.
When you go back to Hyundai, be forceful about this being a manufacturing fault and that the vehicle was not fit for purpose. Also, their service was appalling and they appear to have deliberately deceived you. You have good grounds to make a case out of this.
Good LUCK :goodjob2:
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@2xcatz If this works for you, please pose this to your mechanic.
I have a feeling that oil pressure is the killer that pops the seal. I would like to have seen what affect the 3mm movement has on the oil pump. Does it distort and allow oil to flow out behind the seal?
The reason I ask this is because when your car arrived at the mechanic's garage, the seal was still in place, but the car had lost a heap of oil.
Also in my experience a shaft will move in and out of a seal, its seems part of the seal's design. Secondly, why just the front seal? The crankshaft is also moving in the rear seal .
To conclude, I suggest that you also have a close look at the pump for any damage. Possibly worth including it in your issue with Hyundai.
Cheers.
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Hi Everybody, Do you want the good new or the bad news?
Sorry guys there isn't any good news. I went to the Hyundai dealership where the vehicle purchased after making an appointment to see the Service Manager and after telling him the story and him saying that the car is 6 months out of warranty, I pleaded some Hyundai "goodwill". He proceeded to tell me that I'd have to get in contact with Hyundai Australia on an 1800 number in Sydney and convey details to them. But he said that in the meantime, and before I make contact with Sydney, that I have to have ALL receipts from every service not just the stamped service record book. This is to supposedly confirm that the service was performed at the correct time and that the correct oil was used.
As my partner was endeavouring to obtain receipts, I got in touch with Sydney and told them the ordeal and mentioned the YouTube videos from Canada and I was told very promptly that this "goodwill" gesture is nothing to do with Canada. I was told that the warranty had expired the car would have to be taken to a Hyundai dealership, where the motor would be dismantled by them. I then got in contact with the second dealership where the oil problem was "not diagnosed" nor was the "sump gasket" replaced and spoke to the Service Manager, told him the story and he confirmed that I would have to tow the car to their premises, so that they could remove and dismantle the motor to investigate the "real problem". I asked for a budget figure as to what cost would be involved if the goodwill gesture was declined. It could be declined if one receipt had not/could not be supplied and therefore a cost to me for the dismantling and investigation of the motor would be approximately $1500.
To which I replied that I'd already sourced a second hand motor - 2011 vintage G4GC with 40,000 km on it (for $1100) BUT it is from an auto not manual, hence the next question from my mechanic. Can a manual gearbox flywheel be fitted to an auto crankshaft and if any other ancillaries differ from the two motors apart from the clutch interlock with the ignition.
BTW as an aside the thin thrust bearing is about 1.5 mm thick.
We tried to upload a video that I mentioned yesterday, but it appears that WAV file is to big.
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Hi Everybody, Do you want the good new or the bad news?
Sorry guys there isn't any good news. I went to the Hyundai dealership where the vehicle purchased after making an appointment to see the Service Manager and after telling him the story and him saying that the car is 6 months out of warranty, I pleaded some Hyundai "goodwill". He proceeded to tell me that I'd have to get in contact with Hyundai Australia on an 1800 number in Sydney and convey details to them. But he said that in the meantime, and before I make contact with Sydney, that I have to have ALL receipts from every service not just the stamped service record book. This is to supposedly confirm that the service was performed at the correct time and that the correct oil was used.
As my partner was endeavouring to obtain receipts, I got in touch with Sydney and told them the ordeal and mentioned the YouTube videos from Canada and I was told very promptly that this "goodwill" gesture is nothing to do with Canada. I was told that the warranty had expired the car would have to be taken to a Hyundai dealership, where the motor would be dismantled by them. I then got in contact with the second dealership where the oil problem was "not diagnosed" nor was the "sump gasket" replaced and spoke to the Service Manager, told him the story and he confirmed that I would have to tow the car to their premises, so that they could remove and dismantle the motor to investigate the "real problem". I asked for a budget figure as to what cost would be involved if the goodwill gesture was declined. It could be declined if one receipt had not/could not be supplied and therefore a cost to me for the dismantling and investigation of the motor would be approximately $1500.
To which I replied that I'd already sourced a second hand motor - 2011 vintage G4GC with 40,000 km on it (for $1100) BUT it is from an auto not manual, hence the next question from my mechanic. Can a manual gearbox flywheel be fitted to an auto crankshaft and if any other ancillaries differ from the two motors apart from the clutch interlock with the ignition.
BTW as an aside the thin thrust bearing is about 1.5 mm thick.
We tried to upload a video that I mentioned yesterday, but it appears that WAV file is to big.
No surprsie. I've been down this road with Mitsubishi and how in some countries they can have service bulletins acknowledging a design flaw and fix and yet in australia, total denial and refute of the claim.
anyway, typical tactics and scare tactics. Comes down to your own principles and resolve but I would be looking at consumer agencies. The you must have every receipt also seems a tactic as how many hold on to those. The fact that the books are stamped with an official stamp and should have the dealer details plus I presume there databases would have in there everything done to the car. They may not be linked nationally but in this day an age potentially. If you've had it from new and only ever had it serviced at one dealer it would be a benefit. Also if paid credit card could find evidence in there.
I'm not in a postion regarding the engineering but unless there is significant damage I'd be tempted to replace the thrust washers and see how it goes. What the worst thing that can happen? Same failure and if it did then you'd go right, replace it it but boy you'd have to consider dropping the pan and inspecting or replacing those bearings straight up as a preventative if they're a weak spot on any replacement you source.
I was in a bad spot with the Mits trans failure, 60000k after full "Rebuild" Sourced a used box and decided to check the known wave spring which fails and destroys the box. Could have just put it in and would have worked but boy, it was the right move, wave spring was in pieces. Put the revised part in and that box was the best box that car ever had..
Good luck.
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Thrust bearing thickness new, 2.44 ~ 2.47mm
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If for example you were to order a genuine long motor then there is only one choice and it would be supplied minus any flywheel or flexplate. These would come from your existing unit.
Dopn't know enough to comment more, last time I pulled a manual box out of something it had a spigot bearing in the crankshaft for the input shaft to mate with. Auto does not have that but in this day and age I don't know what they have.
I think about 25 years ago was my last clutch / gearbox endeavour :question:
If you were doing this, typically you'd go the whole hog and take the opportunity to replace the clutch components, machine flywheel, replace main oil seal.
If they're all perfect and maybe in the short term you may get rid of the car understandably you'd look at places to save $$
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Hi all, job well done this end :goodjob2:
but as expected, the Dealers are ducking for cover.
@2xcatz , with our bosses' consent it will be helpful if you name the dealers. @Dazzler your thoughts?
I think this thread may get Hyundai's attention as this problem will surface again now that we are aware of the Canadian failures.
The simple answer to your auto/manual motor exchange question, is yes they are interchangeable.
Just fit your flywheel etc. and as tw has said you will need to buy a spigot bearing.
He has also suggested a cheaper option where you fit a new thrust bearing to this motor. In the interim, it gets you back on the road quicker. But get ACCC advice first. Document everything.
If this was my car, two dealers would be copping writs by now. A dealer is hyundai's Australian representative, a dealer has sold you the car, another dealer has attended to your oil loss and has apparently deceived you for financial gain (a criminal offence). If either dealer feels the problem lies at Hyundai's doorstep, then that dealer must negotiate with Hyundai. NOT you.
Go to the ACCC site. A lot to read; but, you will find that Australian Consumer Law is on your side.
"Businesses that sell goods guarantee that those goods:
•are of acceptable quality - the goods must be safe, lasting, have no faults, look acceptable and do all the things someone would normally expect them to do
•are fit for any purpose that the consumer made known to the business before buying (either expressly or by implication), or the purpose for which the business said it would be fit for "
Typically, the dealer is trying to fob you off, so it is now up to you to get ACCC advice and then take it up with your dealer. The dealer must act in a timely manner.
You may be aware that you do not have to have periodic serving done by a Hyundai dealer. A qualified mechanic is sufficient.
Also, I would resist this: " tow the car to their premises, so that they could remove and dismantle the motor to investigate the "real problem". "
1. they have already had that chance, given their actions at that time, one could not trust them.
2. you already have a mechanic who has done this investigation.
3. presumably they are able to come to his workshop to observe .
4. if the dealer did get the motor out, and given his past deception and 'incompetence' how can you trust his ability, judgement or willingness not to deceive you further.
Please stay in touch, Cheers, Gary
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@nzenigma
We've only heard one side of the story. I have no reason to doubt the facts, but naming the dealer/s probably won't prove much in this instance. It's a complicated one with lots of twists and turns. It is out of warranty and a 3rd party mechanic has been involved who doesn't appear to be a Hyundai expert. :undecided:
I do have the utmost empathy with 2xcatz though. :disapp:
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All valid points Dazz, that's why I threw it in your lap. :goodjob:
2xcats is going to need to do some hard yards before resolution.
Irrespective , I think this seal issue has legs; and will reappear.
:goodjob2:
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Legal is always fun.
I would make the following points.
A mechanic is only obligated to work to their ability, the defence by the dealer would be the mechanic was trusted and competent but on this occasion has missed what appears to be a rare fault. They were not given further opportunities to rectify the issue. From my reading the Non Hyundai mechanic has had reign free of Hyundai's stated policies re issues to tinker and find.
Secondly to suggest fraud from a mistaken repair would need to prove that at the time the mechanic knew that they hadn't fixed the car. Good luck with that.
The third and final point is that Hyundai would argue that at some point the owner has done something that contributed to the issue (accident/unauthorised repair/ bad oil). I had a radiator go on the i30 and took it in under warranty. As soon as the issue was confirmed, the questions started about front end damage, a non genuine clip (that my mechanic put on as part of his diagnosis etc). They were fairly easily batted away, but lets just say my wife had previously had a minor prang. 'No mate thats damage from the accident speak to your insurance' insurance: 'We have a inspection report that shows the vehicle was 100% when we returned it to you'. Before you know it your spending more than the cost of the replacement arguing with two different lawyered up companies about a $300 part.
Speak to the ACCC about your rights, they are the champions here. They should be able to cut through the BS and give you advice. When you send a well drafted email that states that you have consulted with the ACCC and they have indicated your rights are x,y,z. They should sit up and take notice. The last thing you want is to get into a lawyer fight.
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Legal is always fun.
Speak to the ACCC about your rights, they are the champions here. They should be able to cut through the BS and give you advice. When you send a well drafted email that states that you have consulted with the ACCC and they have indicated your rights are x,y,z. They should sit up and take notice. The last thing you want is to get into a lawyer fight.
Absolutely, With a few exceptions that I greatly admire, high end lawyers are a pretty UNscurrilous group . (that's why I do my own writs :twisted:)
A mechanic is only obligated to work to their ability, the defence by the dealer would be the mechanic was trusted and competent but on this occasion has missed what appears to be a rare fault.
Working to ability, agreed, but will the dealer be able to demonstrate that he is sufficiently competent to be employed in this area? :disapp:
"Appears to be a rare fault", how do we know? Are they going to bugle a recall on this? Or have they been burying the evidence in the hope that owners like 2cats and the Canadians will give up? :disapp:
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Some further reading I was doing.
There's actually a few reports of the issue over the years including earlier generation Elantra as well. Interesting to read some.
:link: Thrust Bearing Failure Prevention & Analysis | MOTOR (https://www.motor.com/magazine-summary/thrust-bearing-failure-prevention-analysis/)
In addition, on manual transmission vehicles, the use of starter lockout systems (where the clutch pedal must be depressed in order to start the engine) adds to the problem, since this places forward pressure to the crankshaft during starting, when there’s little or no oil lubrication on the thrust bearing surfaces. Bearing manufacturers have tried to address these OE-inherent problems by adding a fine dispersal of silicon to the bearing matrix and by designing angled ramp areas on the thrust faces that help to promote oil delivery to the thrust areas.
:link: 03 elantra with 44000 miles thrust bearing gone cause - 2003 Hyundai Elantra (https://repairpal.com/03-elantra-with-44000-miles-thrust-bearing-gone-cause-242)
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:link: Thrust Washer Comes Out Of The Motor Frame? - Hyundai Forums : Hyundai Forum (http://www.hyundai-forums.com/xd-2001-2006-elantra/93756-thrust-washer-comes-out-motor-frame.html)
:link: Crank Thrust Bearing - Hyundai Aftermarket.org (http://www.hyundaiaftermarket.org/forum/topic/33901-crank-thrust-bearing/)
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:Shocked:
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:link: 2003 Hyundai Elantra Front Crank Seal: Engine Mechanical Problem ... (https://www.2carpros.com/questions/hyundai-elantra-2003-hyundai-elantra-front-crank-seal)
:link: 03 Crankshaft Seal Unseating - Hyundai Forums : Hyundai Forum (http://www.hyundai-forums.com/xd-2001-2006-elantra/112934-03-crankshaft-seal-unseating.html)
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Gerard, you are now the forum's little ferret. Mate, this one is a paid job ,
unlike our last one. :phone1:
There is obviously a thrust bearing problem out there.
Hyundai has probably kept a lid on it because it is generally being reported by Americans.
It also seems to be the earlier 2003 era Elantra, I'm guessing because they rat on without being specific.
Now you know why I have dementia after trolling the BMW sites dominated by motor-mouth Americans .
eg. THE QUESTION: "The dealer diagnosed the thrust washers coming out of the motor frame and causing seals to come off/out as the problem and my car now needs a new motor."
THE REPLY: I do not own an Elantra, but cannot figure out where on the engine you would have thrust washers!?! A thrust bearing maybe, on a gas turbine, maybe, but on a piston engine??? I am baffled."
:rofl:
Good work mate...keep beavering, :whistler:
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Well it's not 2xCatz typing, but the man who is doing all the chasing etc. Now I have heaps to tell you, but at this point in time I have another question for the team of brothers and I mean team as it appears to be getting bigger in numbers.
I have just got off the phone to 3 dealers here in Melbourne to locate a spigot bearing for my second hand i30 2.0L petrol auto motor, but all dealers say that there is NO spigot bearing listed even after one dealer rang Hyundai Sydney. After talking to the spare parts guys I explained to them that I have used bronze bushes/bearings myself for my toys over the years like in my Triumph TR6, MGB and Midget which locates into the flywheel end of the crankshaft to support the end of the first motion shaft protruding out the front of the gearbox to support this shaft when the gearbox is out of gear. So team could I impose on you again to see what you can track down for me please? If it's to difficult don't worry as I pick up the second hand motor on Saturday morning and will be taking out the problem child hopefully over the weekend too. I will have to get the flywheel off the old motor and have it machined next week. I have a new water pump, cam belt and 3 piece clutch kit to be installed when the replacement motor goes in. The water pump was a just in case it's needed item.
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Can't help for now could be called pilot bearing - crank. Maybe when you get it out you'll be able to work it out or get a number off it
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Thanks tw and if it is a bush, I have removed before them out by hydraulic means. That is filled the bush up with grease then machined, as I do have a lathe, a piece of rod to suit just under the ID like 0.002" of the bush ID then hit the other end of this rod with a hammer. The grease which is inside the back end of the bush in the crank pushes out the bush no problems. By the way John is my name.
I agree with a lot of the discussions so far, but as some else has mentioned we are taking the easy way out in particularly the financial easy way. By the way one of the people who serviced the car at least three times is now out of business. 2xcatz used to live in Geelong 100 kms from where she bought the car from here in the burbs of Melbourne, yes that's where I live. So just another nail in our coffin as one dealer told me if we don't have all the service receipts their goodwill offer could not be offered, yes another way out.
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You can do that with grease , bread or oiled tissue paper too, and on a ball race. Which may be your best option as you can measure it precisely and go to a bearing specialist.
The UK is out of stock on them too. Obviously not much call.
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I'm starting to get the impression there is no bushing or bearing. Nothing in the parts breakdown but on a video of a box just separated I see nothing. That's on the generation before.
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I'm starting to get the impression there is no bushing or bearing. Nothing in the parts breakdown but on a video of a box just separated I see nothing. That's on the generation before.
so... wipes brow..., :sweating: now I have to go down to shed #2 and have a look, :phone1: jezzz talk about a bad hair day :crazy2:
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I'm starting to get the impression there is no bushing or bearing. Nothing in the parts breakdown but on a video of a box just separated I see nothing. That's on the generation before.
so... wipes brow..., :sweating: now I have to go down to shed #2 and have a look, :phone1: jezzz talk about a bad hair day :crazy2:
IT's all down hill. :lol:
P.S. Take a camera
(http://cdn.bigshotcamera.com/images/fun/buildables/lenscamera/the_mammoth.jpg)
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I'm starting to get the impression there is no bushing or bearing. Nothing in the parts breakdown but on a video of a box just separated I see nothing. That's on the generation before.
so... wipes brow..., :sweating: now I have to go down to shed #2 and have a look, :phone1: jezzz talk about a bad hair day :crazy2:
IT's all down hill. :lol:
P.S. Take a camera
(http://cdn.bigshotcamera.com/images/fun/buildables/lenscamera/the_mammoth.jpg)
Gary is old enough that could be him in the photo. :mrgreen:
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I'm starting to get the impression there is no bushing or bearing. Nothing in the parts breakdown but on a video of a box just separated I see nothing. That's on the generation before.
so... wipes brow..., :sweating: now I have to go down to shed #2 and have a look, :phone1: jezzz talk about a bad hair day :crazy2:
IT's all down hill. :lol:
P.S. Take a camera
(http://cdn.bigshotcamera.com/images/fun/buildables/lenscamera/the_mammoth.jpg)
Gary is old enough that could be him in the photo. :mrgreen:
Now, you could have waited until the report comes in first before you upset him! :head_butt:
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:confused: :-[ :winker:
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I'm starting to get the impression there is no bushing or bearing. Nothing in the parts breakdown but on a video of a box just separated I see nothing. That's on the generation before.
so... wipes brow..., :sweating: now I have to go down to shed #2 and have a look, :phone1: jezzz talk about a bad hair day :crazy2:
IT's all down hill. :lol:
P.S. Take a camera
(http://cdn.bigshotcamera.com/images/fun/buildables/lenscamera/the_mammoth.jpg)
Gary is old enough that could be him in the photo. :mrgreen:
Now, you could have waited until the report comes in first before you upset him! :head_butt:
Wise words....... never upset a man armed with a bore scope. :evil:
And @2xcatz @Dazzler @tw2005 .
Bit of an act at 5.30 am because the motors still have their clutches. However, the trusty bore scope says NO! :Shocked:
The 2.0L motor does not have a spigot bearing.
I'm stunned that Hyundai couldn't tell us that. :rolleyes:
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I'm starting to get the impression there is no bushing or bearing. Nothing in the parts breakdown but on a video of a box just separated I see nothing. That's on the generation before.
so... wipes brow..., :sweating: now I have to go down to shed #2 and have a look, :phone1: jezzz talk about a bad hair day :crazy2:
IT's all down hill. :lol:
P.S. Take a camera
(http://cdn.bigshotcamera.com/images/fun/buildables/lenscamera/the_mammoth.jpg)
Gary is old enough that could be him in the photo. :mrgreen:
Now, you could have waited until the report comes in first before you upset him! :head_butt:
Wise words....... never upset a man armed with a bore scope. :evil:
And @2xcatz @Dazzler @tw2005 .
Bit of an act at 5.30 am because the motors still have their clutches. However, the trusty bore scope says NO! :Shocked:
The 2.0L motor does not have a spigot bearing.
I'm stunned that Hyundai couldn't tell us that. :rolleyes:
I'm not. these are the same people who struggled to identify the fault, the same people who are not going out of their way to help either I feel placing barriers around.
It's a new generation. :head_butt:
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I'm starting to get the impression there is no bushing or bearing. Nothing in the parts breakdown but on a video of a box just separated I see nothing. That's on the generation before.
so... wipes brow..., :sweating: now I have to go down to shed #2 and have a look, :phone1: jezzz talk about a bad hair day :crazy2:
IT's all down hill. :lol:
P.S. Take a camera
(http://cdn.bigshotcamera.com/images/fun/buildables/lenscamera/the_mammoth.jpg)
Gary is old enough that could be him in the photo. :mrgreen:
Now, you could have waited until the report comes in first before you upset him! :head_butt:
Wise words....... never upset a man armed with a bore scope. :evil:
And @2xcatz @Dazzler @tw2005 .
Bit of an act at 5.30 am because the motors still have their clutches. However, the trusty bore scope says NO! :Shocked:
The 2.0L motor does not have a spigot bearing.
I'm stunned that Hyundai couldn't tell us that. :rolleyes:
I'm not. these are the same people who struggled to identify the fault, the same people who are not going out of their way to help either I feel placing barriers around.
It's a new generation. :head_butt:
The main problem is that all the people you deal with, have only been shown "how to do X", never how anything works, or what to do if they have a problem that is outside of what they have been shown. People don't touch anything mechanical or electrical to see whats going on, they are not interested. :disapp:
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It's a new generation. :head_butt:
The main problem is that all the people you deal with, have only been shown "how to do X", never how anything works, or what to do if they have a problem that is outside of what they have been shown. People don't touch anything mechanical or electrical to see whats going on, they are not interested. :disapp:
Yep, unfortunately, you are both right. I grew up in an era when repairing your car or house was a rite of passage . We were partly influenced by our parents who had been 'over there' during war time and learnt how to 'think and do' to survive.
Many in today's generation of ANZACs :faint: are self centred little gits who are glued to their erroneously labelled "communication" devices, pretending that their so-called 'friends', who are sending them meaningless drivel, are amazing humans who actually care about them.
END OF RANT :blubber:
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It's a new generation. :head_butt:
The main problem is that all the people you deal with, have only been shown "how to do X", never how anything works, or what to do if they have a problem that is outside of what they have been shown. People don't touch anything mechanical or electrical to see whats going on, they are not interested. :disapp:
Yep, unfortunately, you are both right. I grew up in an era when repairing your car or house was a rite of passage . We were partly influenced by our parents who had been 'over there' during war time and learnt how to 'think and do' to survive.
Many in today's generation of ANZACs :faint: are self centred little gits who are glued to their erroneously labelled "communication" devices, pretending that their so-called 'friends', who are sending them meaningless drivel, are amazing humans who actually care about them.
END OF RANT :blubber:
I resent a so called friend saying that! I don't consider the stuff you put on my communication device meaningless drivel... :eek: :crazy1: :rofl: :rofl:
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From the TSBs I have seen it would appear that there is a very bureaucratic process. If this happens then do that etc etc.
If there is no script then they are all at sea. That and no one is going to pay them the big dollars per hour they get changing oil to do a fix like the one above, they will end up with a stupidly big bill that they cannot justify thus have to reduce. They will wear this (or try to kick the can down the road to the next dealer) with warranty work as it is a part of the dealership's contract (thats not to say they won't try to do a lot of other unnecessary warranty work to get the margin up if they are allowed (hence why they have to get approval from Hyundai).
My efforts to have the brake light switched for the second time in the wife's car went this way:
Service Whats the problem
Me The brake light is staying on on some occasions when applied, I can see it in the rear spoiler thing in the middle of the rear window. I need a new brake light switch.
Service Soulds about right but we'll need to look at it.
On pick up
Re alligned traction control and a couple of other things tested ok.
Me: I'm fairly sure it is the brake light switch, it is a $30 part. I can't see how the traction control would result in the brake lights staying on.
That night me: "the motherf#$king brake lights are staying on...."
Visit 2:
Service: Whats the problem?
Me; Same as last time, the brake lights are staying on. I was sceptical of your last fix.....I wanted a new brake light switch, again it is a known fault, has the same symptoms and costs $30 retail. I can't see why you wouldn't change it.
Service: It has already been done.
Me: Wouldn't be the first time something has gone.
Later that day on the phone
Service: G'day mate your car is ready
Me what did they do?
Service: they did (whatever it was)
Me: Mate, I'm not going to be happy if I pick the car up for a second time and the brake lights stay on and I have to come back for a third time when I have identified that it is the most likley fault from the start and were not talking hundreds of dollars, were talking $30
Service: oh hang on.
Service: Give us another hour and we will put the brake light switch in as a 'goodwill gesture' to put your mind at rest.
I got the car back, and whoever had done the brake light switch had left the mat that covers the internals under the dash unclipped and it was resting on the brake pedal so once I had rectified their error (I had checked this before I took it to the stealer and it was fitted ok) all worked well in the world and has to this day.
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That night me: "the motherf#$king brake lights are staying on...."
:lol: :rofl:
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Hi all, just another question for you as we are installing new thrust bearing in our S/H i30 motor before running it can you tell us what the main bearing torque settings are please?
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Hi all, just another question for you as we are installing new thrust bearing in our S/H i30 motor before running it can you tell us what the main bearing torque settings are please?
27.5 to 31.4 Nm + (60°~64°)
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Much appreciated.
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ANy updates? Any photos? Would love some actual imagery of all this work :exclaim:
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Hi Everybody, firstly sorry for the delay as a lot has happened over the last few weeks.
Well it has been a while since we reported anything but here is the latest and hopefully the last.
In a few days we are parting with the i30 and trading it in on a S/H manual Mazda6. Since the last time we posted on the forum we have replaced the old thrust bearings from the problem motor with new ones and as my mechanic indicated if it took 96,000 km to wear out the old ones it may take some time to wear out the new ones even though there was 0.015” crankshaft end float instead of the 0.010" that Hyundai indicate. As a back-up, if the changes the mechanic made didn’t hold, we had also put down a one-third deposit on a good second hand motor (which we were prepared to loose), in the event that we would need to change the motor completely.
In the meantime, we had emailed the Herald-Sun motoring section and asked them to read the story on the magic i30 Forum web site, link supplied, about the 2xcatz saga. We indicated that we didn’t what them to push Hyundai about another motor but just for then to warn readers about this problem. Well the following week they published two other reader’s questions with motor replacement problems that Hyundai didn’t want to know about.
We had a reply yesterday from the Herald-Sun and were told to get back in touch with Hyundai in Sydney because Hyundai has been under pressure from the ACCC to take a more proactive approach with warranty issues, please refer to the following link:
:link: Hyundai to improve consumer guarantees approach | ACCC (https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/hyundai-to-improve-consumer-guarantees-approach)
So everybody after losing far too much time, money and effort even without going down the ACCC route the i30 will be gone for good. I would like to thank you all again for your efforts, assistance and thoughts along the way and, yes we were even thinking, for a fleeting period of time, of trading in the manual petrol i30 for a diesel, but we changed our minds.
As an aside, last week at a car club meeting that the man went to, he told a fellow club member about the problems we were having and he said the lass who works behind him had the over head gear in her i30 motor break and once again Hyundai didn’t want to know about it even though this car had two months’ worth of warranty remaining.
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Good morning 2xcatz,
Thankyou for your brilliant update, sorry that you are going to the opposition :confused: but understand your sentiments, wish you well.
Gerard ( @tw2005 ) and I were recently discussing your problem, too often it happens that we put in a lot of time not only responding to member's queries but also doing further research to provide good advice, but after that there is silence. So, many thanks for this update, I am sure Gerard and the other contributors also appreciate it. Attention @Dazzler
Moreover, your own contribution has been well thought through. Brilliant :goodjob2: The use of the media to gain support from the ACCC appears to have hit the mark.
There is another issue that has come to our attention, I will refer your work to those members, it will be valuable to them. :link: 2017 i30sr starting problem (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=47537.new#new)
Best wishes Gary
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Cheers 2xcatz and Gary.
:whsaid:
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Hi 2x,
I would continue to chase Hy Aus, if only to get your money spent on getting it to a point that you can sell it back. You might even get a great trade in for the 6 .
Thanks for the perseverance and the update . :goodjob: :goodjob2:
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That explains the easy time I had with Hyundai getting a committment to fix an iload seat that had the stiching go.
I thought I would be batteling for weeks....sent it in, they took a photo approval same day booked in for next week.
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Auto expert did a video about ACCC and Hyundai (quite interesting) :cool:
I'll post a separate thread.