[Fi30cw2009]

Hi folks. I've got a 2009 Hyundai i30cw 1.6 petrol which I bought secondhand in June 2013. I live in Finland where you can imagine we get all sorts of fun and exciting weather, but apart from its horrendous road noise and tendency to ice up the inside of the windscreen when it's around zero degrees, it's been a great car.

Until last week. I was doing about 100km/h on a motorway about half an hour into a journey, and approaching a long bend in the road. Just as I was about to enter the bend, my EPS and ESP lights both came on, and the car suddenly got heavier. Now I've had a car without power steering before this, so I was able to handle it, but on a wintry Finnish road at those speeds, it wasn't fun. I pulled over, switched the engine off and on again, and everything reinitialised (except the radio, which was off at the time, so I didn't notice it was wiped).

At first I looked around and found several threads, including some on this forum, about losing EPS and ESP at the same time. I have a cheapo Bluetooth-based OBDII reader so I checked the onboard computer for error codes, but found nothing. Then I turned the radio on and realised that all my settings were gone, which leads me to believe that I had a momentary electrical outage in the car which caused all the related systems to disable themselves.

So my questions are: what is the most likely cause(s) of such an outage, what should I be checking in the car (battery terminals and fuses, what else?) and is there anything else I should be aware of?

Thanks! My girlfriend doesn't want to get in the car anymore at the moment, so the sooner I get the cause isolated, the better!

[UPDATE] after three weeks, my car is back to a roadworthy state - basically, it seems that my power steering pump went defective for a still unknown reason. I ultimately replaced it with a secondhand part from a scrapyard.

- it is part number 563002L700, applicable to all models of i30 at least between 2008-2010
- my nearest Hyundai-certified service place quoted €2340 for a brand-new part shipped from Hyundai
- I found a secondhand part from a wrecked i30 for €450 plus €15 shipping
- the cost of labour for replacing the part was €300, which was about three hours' work
- the end cost of the replacement and work was €765 (not counting €105 I spent on a new battery during the process)

Comparing those two, I opted for secondhand (considering the price difference of almost 2K in parts cost alone!).

There is still a question of why my radio lost its settings, but it could have been a random fluke of some sort, or then erratic power supply caused by the faulty motor, or my old battery starting to drop in voltage; for now, I'm going to assume that it was the latter and entirely coincidental to the power steering failure, but I'll report back if it reoccurs. Since the battery was replaced, I'll probably never know for sure.

[Phil №❶]

Is your car Diesel or Petrol 

[Dazzler]

Wow!, sorry to hear that!

Yes, scary to lose power steering suddenly at the best of times.. but on icy roads, even scarier.. 

BTW 

Very hard to hazard a guess.. Could have been a one of glitch or something more sinister. 

Hopefully someone more technically minded will have some ideas! 

[Phil №❶]

Yes, this was a significant loss, so at this stage, I'd be checking all the Earth wiring including both  the wire and the fixing point. Check for oil or rust or any other contaminant that could alter the conductivity. Secondly, I'm not sure if there are any, but I would look at all relays in the engine bay, for contamination on any contacts. This would require removal, cleaning and replacement. Even then, the actual relay may be faulty, too which would require replacement. Check also the fuse able links as well.

[Shambles]

Also check that the "memory fuse" is firmly seated in its slot; this can be found in the fuse panel inside the car.

Other than a total battery loss/disconnection (which didn't happen since you had warning lights lit) it's the only thing I can imagine that would wipe your radio.

[Fi30cw2009]

Also check that the "memory fuse" is firmly seated in its slot; this can be found in the fuse panel inside the car.

Other than a total battery loss/disconnection (which didn't happen since you had warning lights lit) it's the only thing I can imagine that would wipe your radio.

Thanks for the tips guys, I have never heard of a "memory fuse" but to be honest I've never felt the need to go poking too deeply into my Hyundai since I got it. (My previous car was a 1996 Vauxhall Corsa 1.2 which I got free from a friend, I did quite a lot of mechanical work on it replacing rusty parts and whatnot, but I haven't really ever delved much into automotive electrical systems. Also, these modern, enclosed engines are something of a mystery to me.)

I'll try to take a poke around tonight or tomorrow and I'll let you know if I find anything.

Now that I'm thinking about it, the battery did mysteriously drain itself overnight sometime during last year, but I jumped it from another car and it never reoccurred since, so I had assumed I had just left something switched on by mistake. Now I'm getting suspicious. Apart from that one time with the battery and a mysterious rattling noise coming from somewhere under the car when going over rough surfaces, I haven't had any major problems yet. That said, I just pass 65,000km (40,000 miles), so maybe it's just starting to reach that age where problems start to develop...

[Shambles]

[sundiz]

It would be good thing to check the voltages of your battery. The normal voltage, when motor is not running and the voltage when the motor is running. If the battery is in good condition you should get approx 12.7-12.8 volts when motor is off and over 14 volts when engine is running. You could also charge the battery with external charger.

If the battery has died previously it might have broken the battery. Batteries don't like to be dried out. Especially in subzero temps. And if they do go out, you should charge it with "intelligent" battery charger (älylaturi). Some of the more advanced models can recover worn out batteries with specialized charging modes.

If you only drive short distances the alternator doesn't have enough time to charge the (cold) battery. Common problem during the winter time. Especially if you have webasto or ebersprächer. Those just drain the battery dry so easily. Usually in modern cars when the voltage of the battery goes too low, the ABS and ESP are first things that are cut off. It would also make sense that the electric power steering would go off as well.

[Phil №❶]

Suspicious draining of the battery should always be thoroughly checked out. To drain a fully charged battery even overnight would require a noticeable drain, eg a light on or a fan running. Having been drained, some batteries never fully recover, as previously stated.

[Asterix]

Check the grounding connections as shown. Remove cables and grind the base and remember to give it some rust protection afterwards.

Bad grounding would give the same indication as a drained batteri.

[Lorian]

Also, there is a known problem with -ve terminal connector on battery breaking if you have the one with the built in voltage/condition checker and it's been done up too tight (cars in Europe from roughly august 2009 onwards). if you have one of theses the connector is bigger than the one you see above.

[sundiz]

Also, there is a known problem with -ve terminal connector on battery breaking if you have the one with the built in voltage/condition checker and it's been done up too tight (cars in Europe from roughly august 2009 onwards). if you have one of theses the connector is bigger than the one you see above.

Interesting. How do they break?

I think I have similar connectors as in the picture. In my car the negative (-)connector is a piece of crap. The positive connector is a liile bit better but I've seen better. I had to bend the (-) connnector with pliers to get it tight enoug. Now it's starting to loose again. Looks like the connector can be tighten only couple of times before it becomes too loose. I'm going to change that as soon as the weather gets little warmer. Those original connectors have probably worst desing I have ever seen.

[Lorian]

they crack as they are not supposed to be done up tight so both sides touch. they are present on any car with the battery recuperation alternator. after sometime in 2010 they changes the design slightly so avoid it. im not sure the production dates.

[Fi30cw2009]

Just a quick update, after a hectic week at work and some terrible outdoors weather, I never managed to check the car, but hadn't seen any reoccurrence and was hoping it was just a random thing.

Then earlier today I was at the swimming pool with my boy, and upon leaving, found that my power steering was out again - EPS and ESP lights both on, and several restarts of the engine didn't change anything. The radio still remembered its stations this time though. I had to drive home without power steering (having just missed the closing times of the closest Hyundai service center by five minutes) and it seems like my EPS and ESP are dead for the time being.

Tomorrow afternoon I'm going to allocate a lump of time to looking around the car, but if I can't find anything obvious, I guess I'm gong to have to take it to a service center at the beginning of next week (and face bills potentially in the thousands judging by what I've read elsewhere, particularly if they feel the need to replace the steering column or something). I checked my Bluetooth OBD reader again, but still no error codes logged.

I'll keep this thread updated with my progress.

[Fi30cw2009]

It would be good thing to check the voltages of your battery. The normal voltage, when motor is not running and the voltage when the motor is running. If the battery is in good condition you should get approx 12.7-12.8 volts when motor is off and over 14 volts when engine is running. You could also charge the battery with external charger.

For whatever it's worth, I do recall the OBDII reader reporting the battery at 13.9 volts with the engine running. I'll check the engine off reading tomorrow morning. Is it indicative of something bad about the battery at this level?

[Asterix]

13,9 volts should be fine. I believe you need to go below 11 Volt or so before the various modules won't work.

[Dazzler]

Fi30cw2009, Sorry to hear that! Hopefully the problem can be isolated to something simple and cheap to fix! 

[Fi30cw2009]

So I braved the weather and checked the car. Memory fuse was in solidly. All the battery terminals and grounding contact points looked fine, no corrosion or damage that I could tell. The battery gave an initial reading of 11.4V before turning the engine on, then 11.7-11.8 after turning engine on and off a few times (car tells me it's -8°C right now). It gave a more or less consistent 14.2V with the engine on. EPS and ESP continue to fail to turn on. I can upload some pics of the contacts a little later, if you need.

[Dazzler]

I'm hoping because the ESP is not activating as well as the EPS that it is not the usual Power steering problem. 

[cruiserfied]

Sorry to hear of your troubles.
You mentioned you checked DTC's. Does your reader do all modules or just ECU? You should have a code if you have EPS light on but not in ECU.

[sundiz]

The battery gave an initial reading of 11.4V before turning the engine on, then 11.7-11.8 after turning engine on and off a few times (car tells me it's -8°C right now).

The voltage of the battery is too low. If it's 11.4 just sitting there, you can imagine that the voltage probably goes somewhere 10-9 volts when you cranck the starter motor. That could cause all sorts of electrical problems. If you have someone there to help, or long wires on the multimeter, measure the voltage when starting the motor. You should see voltage drop during cranking.

If the battery can be "serviced", you could check the water levels inside the battery (and add some distilled water).If it's sealed you could charge it with proper battery charger or buy a new one.

This is in Finnish, but I'll guess it's OK in this situation, as the patient is also from Finland. Here are detailed instrunctions about testing battery with multimeter and the allowed voltage limits: Akun kunnon tarkistaminen ? AutoWiki

Basicly it says that full battery has more than 12.7V and with 11.64V there is about 10% of the capacity of the battery. When cranking the voltage should not go below 11-10V. And these are the values, when the engine is not on. Alternator is OK when the charging voltage is something between 13.5-14.4V.

[Lorian]

At 5 years its had a good enough life. Time for a new battery. Note the EPs light will stay on until you start up, steer full left, then full right, then turn the ignition off and back on.

[cruiserfied]

Slightly low battery with engine off is no cause for alarm. It must be starting if he started and stopped the engine several times.
Lets not forget it was -8c at time of testing. And we don't know how long he had the door open looking at stuff before taking reading.
A running voltage of 14.2v means all should be fine when driving.

[sundiz]

A running voltage of 14.2v means all should be fine when driving.

That indicates that the aternator is OK. Still, the 11.4 is way too low, even it was -8C.

One possibility is to go to a somewhere where they do battery tests. That shows the general condition, maximum currents etc. Costs probably something between 10-20€, but in my opinion you could save that money for new battery.

[eye30]

Do a drop test while engine off.

This will confirm whether battery needs replacing

[Fi30cw2009]

Good replies so far, thanks. Considering the age of the battery and the stresses of Finnish winters, it's probably about time I replace it in any event, so I'll pick one up and hope that is what has been causing the problems. I'll get back to you again once I have tested that theory out.

Thanks for all the helpful answers and suggestions so far! What a great forum :-)

[eye30]

Good replies so far, thanks. Considering the age of the battery and the stresses of Finnish winters, it's probably about time I replace it in any event, so I'll pick one up and hope that is what has been causing the problems. I'll get back to you again once I have tested that theory out.

Thanks for all the helpful answers and suggestions so far! What a great forum :-)

Any good battery shop should be able to do the drop test before you buy new battery

[Fi30cw2009]

Well, it doesn't seem to be the battery either, EPS and ESP are still off after swapping it out for another. I assume they should automatically reinitialise if the battery is switched? I also tried the steering wheel thing, but no change. I'm hoping my cheapo ELM 327 reader simply isn't worth much and there's a stored error code that I'm not accessing, but right now, I don't see many other options than taking it to a service place tomorrow.

[Lorian]

ELM327 wont show you codes for much except the engine, you need something similar to a Delphi ds150e, like discussed in a recent thread.

[Wingerdave]

Elm327 = €25  ($35)

Delphi €2400  ($ 3500)

Bit of a price difference. Not really a consumer product, the Delphi.