[Duckman]

Still averaging 7.1L/100km. Haven't bothered figuring it out properly as of yet.

[Duckman]

I just got 437km, to HALF a tank. It was mainly highway, but it will plummet now as it's the weekend. Still, I'm impressed! And the average is still 7.3L/100km although I haven't reset that since the first time I filled the car up (4000km ago).

[MRH130]

I am averaging 6.9-7.1 l/100, 75% highway and 25% Canberra (sorta city-ish)

Crystal only drinks premium though.

Best on a single tank was 6.5 being very gentle.

Cruising speed makes a big difference, I get much better at 100km/h than 110.

Also cruise control is better on the flat but worse when used in hilly terrain. 

[snowcherry]

interesting thread

i was going to start a new one whether to use 91 vs 98 but it seems to be answered in here.
so it seems 98 is preferred to get a bit mor eout of the engine. what i find odd though is why that is if the engine is built around using 91? or have they perhaps done that so people have the choice to use the cheaper fuel?

 

sorry if silly question - i only use 91 in my little ford and never looked into it before

[tji30]

i was going to start a new one whether to use 91 vs 98 but it seems to be answered in here.
so it seems 98 is preferred to get a bit mor eout of the engine.

I think 95 seems to be about the right point actually. Not enough difference between 95 & 98 in these cars to make economic sense. Does do better on 95 that 91 though & definitely woth the extra few cents/litre.

Definitely DON'T use ethonol blend though! That crap is just too highly corrosive even in new cars.

[snowcherry]

95....i can't recall even seeing 95. i'll have to look for it next time i fill up.

not allowed to use E10 in the festiva, but my father swears by it for his XR6.....

[tji30]

...my father swears by it for his XR6.....

Seriously??? The XR6 would be one of those that would have noticably less power with E10 (would be harder to notice in the i30) & I think should absolutely be using at least 95 & preferably 98 (probably even states as much in the manual). E10 is less economical that 91 as well so the 2 cents/litre less you pay is eaten up in much lower fuel economy (ie your l/100km goes up).

[Dazzler]

...my father swears by it for his XR6.....

Seriously??? The XR6 would be one of those that would have noticably less power with E10 (would be harder to notice in the i30) & I think should absolutely be using at least 95 & preferably 98 (probably even states as much in the manual). E10 is less economical that 91 as well so the 2 cents/litre less you pay is eaten up in much lower fuel economy (ie your l/100km goes up).

 

I've steered away from ethanol fuels for the Tiida after what some have said on here but the "Plus" fuel they sell at United down here is rated at 95 octane (so now I'm confused)

[tji30]

...the "Plus" fuel they sell at United down here is rated at 95 octane (so now I'm confused)

I've seen a few 95+E10 pumps around but not many. Most are 91+E10. I don't think it'll be too long before most 95 includes E10 unfortunately just as most 91 includes E10 now.

Stupid thing is that ethanol takes more energy to produce than what it puts out (I think it is 1.2 units of enegry in for every 1 unit out where petrol is .25 unit in for every 1 unit out). How is that sustainable?

[Lakes]

Sounds good, how far on one tank before you need to refill?

[snowcherry]

Seriously??? The XR6 would be one of those that would have noticably less power with E10 (would be harder to notice in the i30) & I think should absolutely be using at least 95 & preferably 98 (probably even states as much in the manual). E10 is less economical that 91 as well so the 2 cents/litre less you pay is eaten up in much lower fuel economy (ie your l/100km goes up).

i'm pretty sure it was E10 he uses. i'll have to find out next i talk to him (or look for his manual first as he's a stubborn one if you suggest change), i know he comments he's surprised at how economical the XR6 actually is.

[Lakes]

...my father swears by it for his XR6.....

Seriously??? The XR6 would be one of those that would have noticably less power with E10 (would be harder to notice in the i30) & I think should absolutely be using at least 95 & preferably 98 (probably even states as much in the manual). E10 is less economical that 91 as well so the 2 cents/litre less you pay is eaten up in much lower fuel economy (ie your l/100km goes up).

I think the E10 is higher octain than 91, a number of people have told me there cars detonate useing 91 unlead, but they run ok on E10. THE xr6 is just a stock falcon 6cylinder they can run on 91 with no problem they use a lower ratio diff (3.45 to 1 ) just fuel economy will not be better on E10 as 10% of the fuel will need to run at 9afr the other 90% can run as lean as 13.7 afr. but most new EFI cars are on the rich side as they come so useing some E10 can improve performance as slightly leans it down.

[2i30s]

if i use 95 octane in my 92 nc fairlane[220kw tickford optioned 5.0 v8] i get 250 kms more out of a tank than 91 octane,i used avgas in it at this years easternats at sandown and it used more fuel than when i used 95 octane,ii thought avgas was even higher octane than premium? Ive just started using premium in my i30 [1190kms now] and i noticed its economy changed around 100 odd kms a tank,[only aproxamat as i dont have trip computer] and doesn't ping[detonate] at low rpm.  still very impressed with my new i30,missus is counting down the days until she gets her i30cw.[around end of july now]

[Dazzler]

I used 95 octane United "plus" part ethanol fuel in our previous Getz and Elantra and they did seem to be slightly more economical and responsive.. pity you guys have "spooked" me with the fuel system corrosion issues... 

[2i30s]

i asked my dealer about ethanol based fuel and said it will void your warany

[tji30]

i asked my dealer about ethanol based fuel and said it will void your warany

I think it is anything more than 10% ethanol will void the warranty. Basically the manufacturers know how much damage ethanol does to the fuel system but they are being force by governments world-wide to allow 10%. Why would anything > 10% suddenly be so damaging to your engine that they void the warranty? Can you guarantee that what comes out of the pump definitely isn't > 10% at any given time? Remember, this is not simply a "we don't recommend > 10%" this is an absolute statement that > 10% will void your warranty!

A mate from South Africa used to race motor cycles. He said they're not allowed to use petrol for motor racing over there so use ethanol instead. When they're finished for the day they always run petrol through the system to flush out the ethanol before putting them away as it is just so corrosive.

[snowcherry]

hang on i'm confused about something....sorry

if you buy regular unleaded (91RON) it has E10 in it anyway? aren't they suuposed to say if ethanol is in it? i know my festiva is one of the few cars that are not allowed to use any ethanol so that is a little concerning.

on the flip side, if i decide to use 98RON in a new car, am i guaranteed it won't have ethanol in it? or is it a case of sticking to particular petrol stations only?

 

i checked with my father, yes he does use E10 and so far has been very happy with his economy. i mentioned the conversation here and he said he'd look into it, though i may have to remind him at some point.

[Dazzler]

hang on i'm confused about something....sorry

if you buy regular unleaded (91RON) it has E10 in it anyway? aren't they suuposed to say if ethanol is in it? i know my festiva is one of the few cars that are not allowed to use any ethanol so that is a little concerning.

on the flip side, if i decide to use 98RON in a new car, am i guaranteed it won't have ethanol in it? or is it a case of sticking to particular petrol stations only?

 

i checked with my father, yes he does use E10 and so far has been very happy with his economy. i mentioned the conversation here and he said he'd look into it, though i may have to remind him at some point.

 

I don't think so... think they are only talking about the amount of ethanol in plus fuels and other ethanols posted fuels...

[tji30]

if you buy regular unleaded (91RON) it has E10 in it anyway? aren't they suuposed to say if ethanol is in it? i know my festiva is one of the few cars that are not allowed to use any ethanol so that is a little concerning.

If the pump is E10 (whether it be 91 (regular) or 95 (premium) RON), it must be specified as such on the pump. Most servos still sell regular (ie 91 RON) with & without E10 & E10 is usually around 2 c/l cheaper. I know BP no longer sell plain regular but not sure about others. Only seen the 95 + E10 at a couple of non-BP servos.

There is no question economy is lower on E10 fuel even with it being 2c/l cheaper. I suspect most cars could be tuned to make better use of E10 fuel but as far as I'm aware none are set up that way out of the factory. The only reason you can't run E10 in your Festiva is that the fuel system hasn't been "hardened" for it & the E10 fuel would destroy it within a couple of years.

So short answer is:  Don't bother with E10 because whether it is bad for your engine or not, it will actually cost you more to use due to its poorer fuel economy, cheaper price notwithstanding.

If you on the other hand think you are saving the planet - go for it.  Although the arguments against that are strong also.  Ethanol is made from what otherwise could be food.  Carefully controlled, it could be made from by-products only but unless there is strong legislation (there may be, I don't know) those making it will opt for the best dollar return which just might be for fuel instead of food.

[tji30]

If you on the other hand think you are saving the planet - go for it.  Although the arguments against that are strong also.  Ethanol is made from what otherwise could be food.  Carefully controlled, it could be made from by-products only but unless there is strong legislation (there may be, I don't know) those making it will opt for the best dollar return which just might be for fuel instead of food.

Don't forget that Ethanol also take MORE energy to produce that what it puts out (1.2 unit in for every 1 unit out). I fail to see how that is an economically sound & sustainable model?

[snowcherry]

ok thanks guys....the stations i go to don't sell E10 at all, so then safe to assume no E10 sneaked into the regular unleaded i guess

i'll pass the extra points on to my dad as well. how many 98RON fills would he need to start noticing a difference do you think?

also on the topic - i was reading the paper today that qld gov are going for legislation to make ethanol  mandatory. i don't understand what this may mean, and worried then we'll have no non-ethanol fuel at all??

oh and pip - i agree with tji 30's views on the saving planet side of things. there's a doco about crude oil which is interesting in this regard

[Dazzler]

i'll pass the extra points on to my dad as well. how many 98RON fills would he need to start noticing a difference do you think?

also on the topic - i was reading the paper today that qld gov are going for legislation to make ethanol  mandatory. i don't understand what this may mean, and worried then we'll have no non-ethanol fuel at all??

 

Hi Snowcherry.. If you are on the low fuel light .. your first full tank of 98RON should make a noticeable difference...

Much the same as a full tank of better diesel makes a difference almost immediately in my Crdi...

When the Governments try to bring these things in it often takes 12 months until it gets ratified then say a 12 month phasing in period with exceptions for incompatible vehicles etc...

They couldn't force people to use it in cars that would be harmed in any way...

...how many 98RON fills would he need to start noticing a difference do you think?

I'm not sure what you are asking exactly but I would like to make the point that as far as octain (RON - Research Octain Rating) ratings go there is not a lot to be gained by using a fuel with a higher octain than the motor can use.  The objective is to stop petrol motors acting like diesel motors and self-igniting the charge.

The higher the octain the more tolerant it is to self-ignition ("pinging" - a tinkly rattling noise).  Petrol motors rely on the spark timing to initiate the burn but relatively high compression engines (most modern petrol motors) and a low octain fuel is pretty much the description for a diesel.  An uncontrolled early detonation (pinging) is outside the petrol engine design objective and can damage an engine if not corrected - although mild pinging under heavy load seemed to be fairly normal in the old days and nothing much seemed to come of it.  In fact, I always timed the spark by setting it to a point where it would just begin to ping under a load condition just beyond where I would normally change gear anyway.  Don't work no more but... 'cos of the ECU.

Those with very long memories will remember that cars once had the "spark timing" as a driver control near to the steering wheel hub, right beside the horn, so that it could be adjusted dynamically by the driver's "ECU" just as we do now except it's the car manufacturers "nut" that does it.   Yeah, I know that in the interim it was dynamically adjusted by a centrifical mechanism... but it's nice to think that before that, as now, it had some intelligence behind it.   

Getting back to my point, modern engines (read ECU) can handle a lower RON than optimum by fiddling with the spark timing... in these cases the engine smarts can cover up a fuel that's less than optimum.  Take the manufacturer's advice here... but when say, 91RON or 95RON are both allowed you can guess that 95 is probably the better option with 91 being the "tolerated" octain.  Using 98 in this example will waste your money because its extra ability to resist pinging will never be called upon.

Using a lower cost "tolerated" RON will probably be a break even cost (when you take into account that it will travel less distance per unit volume) so you might as well use the higher recommended RON.

After having written this and re-reading your question I assume the question is how long (how many fills) one would take to notice a difference when changing to a different RON.

Good question:    I guess if you refill on an empty tank, then virtually straight away.

[tji30]

I use 95 (ie Premium as opposed to Ultra) personally. I think it was MRH130 that recommended it somewhere & given he was a Hyundai Service Manager at some point I figured it was a good recommendation.

Would certainly suck for the use of E10 to be mandated as there are plenty of older vehicles on which it absolutely should not be used. Anecdotally there are many modern cars on which it shouldn't be used either. I've talked to plenty of RACQ roadside assist guys who have seen some horribly messed up components of fuel systems in cars < 2 years old which could only be attributed to E10. That is what turned me off it to start with.

Only reason I can see to mandate E10 in Qld would be to keep the Sugar Cane farmers afloat as I believe we mostly use sugar cane here.

[MRH130]

Ethanol actually has a higher octane rating than petrol, so it's not hard to make E10 with a higher octane. However, there are other issues in play in the E10 debate and the higher octane doesn't offset any of the other issues. E10 95+ will help stop the motor pinging under load compared to E10 91 octane but it still has all the corrosion and other issues so even in 95 (as offered by Liberty I think) it's just not worth it IMHO.

Using petrol blended with up to 10% ethanol will not void your warranty but you're taking an unnecessary risk by using it. If you have a fuel system problem and they analyze the fuel and find more than 10% then no that won't be covered by warranty and it'll be up to you to chase the fuel distributor for the repair costs. And good luck with that. ;o)

Hyundai tunes it's engines to give their best performance/economy on 95 so if it is available I use that. If not I get 98.

Changing to better fuel will usually bring a swift improvement, but I find it can take a tank or two to get the full benefits. The XR6 (unless it's a turbo) will not bring as much improvement as an i30 because the old 4 litre runs a pretty low (relatively) compression ratio and cannot take as much advantage of the better fuel. It will still give better performance and economy on the good stuff, it's well worth it. And E10 will still cause all the other dramas we've all been talking about, sooner or later.

As I understand it (and I work in legislative drafting) the proposal to mandate minimum ethanol content will refer only to regular unleaded, so premium fuels will not be affected. I can't imagine they'll ever make people put E10 in their Ferraris... 

On another topic, keep an eye out for my new fuel consumption thread tonight and join my petrolconsumption challenge! we don't need no diesel! 

 

[tji30]

...we don't need no diesel!

Hell no. Petrol rulz. And in White too!

[MRH130]

Hell no. Petrol rulz. And in White too!

Yeah, white SRs unite! 

[snowcherry]

After having written this and re-reading your question I assume the question is how long (how many fills) one would take to notice a difference when changing to a different RON.

Good question:    I guess if you refill on an empty tank, then virtually straight away.

cheers that was what i meant. 

apologies for not replying sooner, i keep re-reading this page then start thinking about stuff and never replying
anyway - just an update re my dads car...he put some 98RON in this week, i guess he must have taken my comments on board. he put it in on a low tank and he'll use a whole tank in a week. so next week or so i should get a reply about how it went. he grumbled about the extra cost so i do hope he sees a great improvement.

and thanks guys for the reasurance on the legislation about mandatory E10 as well.

[Lakes]

Ethanol actually has a higher octane rating than petrol, so it's not hard to make E10 with a higher octane. However, there are other issues in play in the E10 debate and the higher octane doesn't offset any of the other issues. E10 95+ will help stop the motor pinging under load compared to E10 91 octane but it still has all the corrosion and other issues so even in 95 (as offered by Liberty I think) it's just not worth it IMHO.

Using petrol blended with up to 10% ethanol will not void your warranty but you're taking an unnecessary risk by using it. If you have a fuel system problem and they analyze the fuel and find more than 10% then no that won't be covered by warranty and it'll be up to you to chase the fuel distributor for the repair costs. And good luck with that. ;o)

Hyundai tunes it's engines to give their best performance/economy on 95 so if it is available I use that. If not I get 98.

Changing to better fuel will usually bring a swift improvement, but I find it can take a tank or two to get the full benefits. The XR6 (unless it's a turbo) will not bring as much improvement as an i30 because the old 4 litre runs a pretty low (relatively) compression ratio and cannot take as much advantage of the better fuel. It will still give better performance and economy on the good stuff, it's well worth it. And E10 will still cause all the other dramas we've all been talking about, sooner or later.

As I understand it (and I work in legislative drafting) the proposal to mandate minimum ethanol content will refer only to regular unleaded, so premium fuels will not be affected. I can't imagine they'll ever make people put E10 in their Ferraris... 

On another topic, keep an eye out for my new fuel consumption thread tonight and join my petrolconsumption challenge! we don't need no diesel! 

 

LOL give me Nitro!