i30 Owners Club
GOT PROBLEMS OR ISSUES? => DIESEL => Topic started by: terry hunter on February 19, 2010, 10:44:17
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This is the first front wheel drive I've owned and have been told by two service centre mechanics that there is nothing to worry about.
Does any other manual i30 driver notice that when you change gears... either quickly or slowly... that the transmission gives a good thump as you take foot off clutch and onto accelerator again...as when one changes gear? If done very very slowly and smoothly I can avoid it but not in normal driving.
I've taken two mechanics for a drive and they seem to have trouble even hearing what I hear! But it is so obvious to me and to others I've had travelling - especially loud in the back seat- that it does not sound normal to me.
Could it just be normal front wheel drive torque/stress on the driveshafts and or engine mounts that I have to get used to?
I can't see why these Hyundai techs. would fob me off if there was work in it for them under warranty. The car has done 17000km and has been noticable to me from the first couple of weeks driving. I'm not sure it's getting worse but it sure isn't improving as time goes on.
Am I hearing things... is this normal...?
Terry H
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Does it do it only when you change gears, would it do it if you put your foot down hard, for instance in second gear :question:
Also what gear changes does it mostly do it in :question:
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Can't say i've noticed it in mine.. very frustrating for you..
I'm thinking clutch or drivetrain more so than gearbox as such...
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Does it do it only when you change gears, would it do it if you put your foot down hard, for instance in second gear :question:
Also what gear changes does it mostly do it in :question:
Hi Starseeker... only when changing gear... all gears but most noticeable 1st to second, second to third. Putting foot down hard does not do it.
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Can't say i've noticed it in mine.. very frustrating for you..
I'm thinking clutch or drivetrain more so than gearbox as such...
G'day Dazzler,
It is much more noticeable when sitting in the back seat. My missus asks even when she's driving (and she's a bit harder on the clutch than me) "Why does it do that?".... and she's not tuned in at all to car noises so it's pretty obviously there.
I can't understand why the techs have so much trouble hearing the issue.
Terry H
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I've taken two mechanics for a drive and they seem to have trouble even hearing what I hear!
Did they drive it themselves or as passengers?
You need a 3rd opinion on this. It doesn't sound right to me.
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I've taken two mechanics for a drive and they seem to have trouble even hearing what I hear!
Did they drive it themselves or as passengers?
You need a 3rd opinion on this. It doesn't sound right to me.
They did both but only for a short run .... but I could still hear it when they were driving and had trouble hearing it.
My hearing is not that good either! but perhaps theirs is worse.
Terry H
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Could be engine mounts. I've had them fail on me in a few FWD cars, mainly because I was abusing them (old civic and wife's Daewoo). The torque reaction of the engine/gearbox makes the whole assembly move on the mounts, causing a thump. Generally it is worse when you change quickly rather than slowly - so not sure if this could be your problem.
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Could be engine mounts. I've had them fail on me in a few FWD cars, mainly because I was abusing them (old civic and wife's Daewoo). The torque reaction of the engine/gearbox makes the whole assembly move on the mounts, causing a thump. Generally it is worse when you change quickly rather than slowly - so not sure if this could be your problem.
I had a mini did this once due to broken engine mounts, sounds like a good starting point to me... too early for busted CV joints.
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Engine mount seem to be a possibility I suppose. What actually fails with engine mounts if they are pretty well new? Have they not been tightened enough? can one have a broken engine mount from new?
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I'm not sure I guess one could have had a manufacturing fault? I think these days some of them are fluid filled to reduce vibration. I used to test my Civic by opening the bonnet, looking under the bonnet gap to see the engine while sitting in the driver's seat and moving a metre or so in the driveway and seeing how far the engine 'rotates' on the mount. Unless you have a good i30 to compare to it will probably always look like its moving too much tho.
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Engine mount seem to be a possibility I suppose. What actually fails with engine mounts if they are pretty well new? Have they not been tightened enough? can one have a broken engine mount from new?
Hard to tell without seeing it or hearing it... but I would think it could be any / a combination of the above.
With limited information / experience with it, the cause could also be a full drink can rolling around under the passenger seat !!!!!!!
(A review team have recently reported something similar with a KIA, only to find the REAL cause - the can !)
I do hope you find it / get it fixed soon though.
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Hi terry hunter
You wondered whether it may be the transmission but say the noise is most noticeable in the back of the car. Without hearing it myself I can't comment, but could it be something like the exhaust moving around and hitting the underneath of the bodywork? Maybe you only assume it's the transmission because it only happens when you change gear, but changing gear will cause other parts of the car to jolt.
Think I would be tempted to concentrate on the back end of the car and take it to another dealer to be checked over. Also to check the car over properly, they would need to get it on the ramps.
You assumed the dealer would want the work and is not likely to fob you off, well they may want the work but only if the fault is easy to diagnose in my opinion. My experience leads me to believe that the dealerships seem to be too scared to make a decision on a repair in case they get it wrong and have to foot the bill, I suppose if they don’t get it right, Hyundai may refuse to pay out anymore money and tell them it is there fault for an incorrect diagnosis. There are a lot of examples on this forum where members still have issues that have not yet been resolved and that is because the dealership has not been able to get a positive diagnosis in my opinion.
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Well I've had two dealerships check the car out now (twice to one place) and none of them says anything is abnormal.
While this is comforting in one way, I'm very disappointed and I suppose I'll have to ignore it till I can drive another manual to see if it's a standard thing. The last lot had it for a whole day to check it out and they checked the suspension and the engine mounts.
I wish it was a can under the seat. :eek:
While it is most noticeable in the rear, it is still obvious when in the drivers or passengers seat.
Can nobody else confirm that their manual is perfectly smooth and quiet when changing gears?... that there is no perceptible thud or thump when letting the clutch out?.... even at a slow or moderate pace gear change?....
This issue is the only real thing that would make me not recommend the i30 (manual) to someone else if indeed it is a "normal" thing.
Thanks for your replies.
Terry
By the way... I just did a rough economy run with it over mixture of flat and quite hilly terrain... I'm quite pleased with the 4.76lt per 100k.
This is the i30 wagon... still cool day... mostly kept at 85-90kph.... music up very loud... (mostly Porcupine Tree).
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Hi Terry..
Three months and still no further advanced.. :eek:
I have driven my i30 Crdi in all sorts of conditions (and often drive without music) still haven't noticed a clunk or a thump from the drivetrain...
If only you could catch up with one of our members with a similar car. You experience theirs and have them experience yours (to me it is about the only way to get this sorted)
Any takers???
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Thanks Dazzler... I'm in Bendigo... central Vic.
Terry
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ozsnowman lives in bendigo,[or swan hill] is his car a crdi.? :idea:
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Stew I think his first name is .. yes he has an SX Crdi hatch..
He is a pretty easy going fella. If he doesn't see this thread I suggest you PM him and organise to catch up :mrgreen:
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Hi Terry. This has gone on long enough I reckon.
Do you have any independent assessors around your neck of the woods? Over here we can call on our emergency assist groups (AA etc) to assess a vehicle, usually prior to purchase. Here, at a small cost, we can get a completely impartial report on the state of a car.
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racv or vacc can do those tests. :idea:
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that there is no perceptible thud or thump when letting the clutch out?.... even at a slow or moderate pace gear change?....
My understanding is the Thud may be associated with the release bearing.
Did they mention this as a possible cause of the noise
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Just had a thought .. maybe terry is THUMPER under a pseudonym.. :lol:
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:lol: you are a naughty boy dazz. :P
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I have a diesel manual and have no noises such as you have described, so it isn't normal.
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Like starseeker said, Don't overlook the fact the noise seems louder in the back. Are you sure it's not the tailgate banging (poort stop adjustment) or something loose in the boot like spare wheelnuts),
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I can induce a thump if I let the clutch out a little too quickly. In fact it will readily and noticibly thump if I engage it with barely too many revs on. If on the other hand, I drive sedately and use the clutch respectfully and gently, it is as smooth as honey; best clutch feel I've ever had. It never complains (apart from the subdued "thump") nor slips if I'm a little clumsy with the timing.
It seems to me like it's a design compromise and has been designed to be smooth, if you are, and less happy if you treat it harshly, else it has just turned out that way.
The thump I'm referring to is clearly from the clutch itself. It's as if the springs in the driven plate are a little soft.
Having said that, it definitely doesn't lend itself to boy racer abuse. :rolleyes: :cool:
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that there is no perceptible thud or thump when letting the clutch out?.... even at a slow or moderate pace gear change?....
My understanding is the Thud may be associated with the release bearing.
Did they mention this as a possible cause of the noise
No, not a mention of this.
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Just had a thought .. maybe terry is THUMPER under a pseudonym.. :lol:
... or I've accidentally run over THUMPER who is now caught up under the car...............
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Like starseeker said, Don't overlook the fact the noise seems louder in the back. Are you sure it's not the tailgate banging (poort stop adjustment) or something loose in the boot like spare wheelnuts),
I can guarantee it is nothing rattling, banging or loose. It is definitely a muffled "thump" just on gear changes as the clutch is released... either with quick changes or slow changes.
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I can induce a thump if I let the clutch out a little too quickly. In fact it will readily and noticibly thump if I engage it with barely too many revs on. If on the other hand, I drive sedately and use the clutch respectfully and gently, it is as smooth as honey; best clutch feel I've ever had. It never complains (apart from the subdued "thump") nor slips if I'm a little clumsy with the timing.
It seems to me like it's a design compromise and has been designed to be smooth, if you are, and less happy if you treat it harshly, else it has just turned out that way.
The thump I'm referring to is clearly from the clutch itself. It's as if the springs in the driven plate are a little soft.
Having said that, it definitely doesn't lend itself to boy racer abuse. :rolleyes: :cool:
If it only happened when I worked it hard, I'd be more understanding and forgiving. But it is almost impossible to prevent it unless I get perfect revs and ease the clutch out so there is no grab on the clutch at all. This is a ridiculous way to drive of course.
Perhaps the clutch plate has a weak spring or a broken one?
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I've emailed ozsnowman for a hopeful rendezvous so I'll keep you all in touch.
If his CRDi does not have the issue, then I'll contact Hyundai direct and see what they say.
Thanks all for your interest.
Terry H
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does it happen in reverse gear?
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does it happen in reverse gear?
.... only when the lights are on..... :lol:
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It was a serious question :exclaim:
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Terry, try this: Let the clutch out before any revs are applied during an up-shift. The relatively small displacement has minimal engine braking and one does not need to get the revs going immediately in order to avoid a "slow-down" in progress.
As I said I can induce a thump, but by delaying the power for a few tens of milliseconds it is very smooth.
If a slight modification (i.e., without being rediculously gentle) does not eleviate the problem then you have something different to what I'm describing.
I will add that I have needed to modify my driving style quite a bit to accomodate the little diesel. (I have a love-hate relationship with the anti-stall :eek:)
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Sorry Lorian but I can't see how I can induce the behaviour in reverse when it only occurs between gear shifts upward... and I have only one reverse gear.
Terry H
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If I get his spot on every time I change (perfect synchronicity.... a bit like changing gears without a clutch maybe?) then the problem does disappear.
But this requires concentrated driving and no traffic issues to contend with. I've never had to do this in any other car I've ever driven... just to prevent a thump and it just doesn't sound normal to my 40 odd years driving numerous vehicles... apart from the old ford laser which needed CV joints replaced.
Anyway I should know more in the next few days as ozsnowman is meeting up to compare both vehicles.
Terry H
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Sorry Lorian but I can't see how I can induce the behaviour in reverse when it only occurs between gear shifts upward... and I have only one reverse gear.
Terry H
So it doesn't happen when you let out the clutch quickly from a standstill in 1st gear?
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Anyway I should know more in the next few days as ozsnowman is meeting up to compare both vehicles.
Terry H
This should give us a difinitive answer...(plus it will be good for you guys to meet as well) :D
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Sorry Lorian but I can't see how I can induce the behaviour in reverse when it only occurs between gear shifts upward... and I have only one reverse gear.
Terry H
So it doesn't happen when you let out the clutch quickly from a standstill in 1st gear?
No I don't think so.
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Anyway I should know more in the next few days as ozsnowman is meeting up to compare both vehicles.
Terry H
This should give us a difinitive answer...(plus it will be good for you guys to meet as well) :D
Well Stew (ozsnowman) and I met up (thanks again Stew!) and took both vehicles for a drive. The "thumping" was similar if not the same in both cars.
Stew had not noticed it until I brought it to his attention... and when he sat in the back it was hard not to notice it.
I think this is more so because there is less engine noise in the back seat (where I often sit) and so the drive train is easier heard when not competing with the motor... not that the motor is noisy but that it is a competing sound which can mask it to some degree. But once you know the sound, it is quite easy to hear from the front as well.
Now I'm interested if any other forum members can hear what "we" can hear when sitting in the back of our i30CRDI manuals.
If this is a typical feature of the vehicles, then it is a little disappointing even if it is not a problem.
But the lack of damping for this noise... is it an indication of the drive-train/clutch set-up of these diesels?... or typical of front wheel drive vehicles generally?
Thanks all for your interest in sorting this. I can at least try harder to ignore this now knowing that it is not a "problem" noise... and I can go deaf in peace :razz:
Terry H
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Terry, try this: Let the clutch out before any revs are applied during an up-shift. The relatively small displacement has minimal engine braking and one does not need to get the revs going immediately in order to avoid a "slow-down" in progress.
As I said I can induce a thump, but by delaying the power for a few tens of milliseconds it is very smooth.
Did you try this?
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Sort of a good result Terry and nice for Stew who up until now probably felt a bit isolated stuck up there in middle of Victoria all on his lonesome :wink:
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could it be as simple as the rear muffler banging on the floor during a gearchange. :idea:
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Now I'm interested if any other forum members can hear what "we" can hear when sitting in the back of our i30CRDI manuals.
Unfortunately I don't have anyone to drive so I can sit in rear.
The thump you are hearing isn't the fuel moving in the tank which is under the rear seat?
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could it be as simple as the rear muffler banging on the floor during a gearchange. :idea:
I only wish it was that simple so we could get it fixed.....
Terry H
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Now I'm interested if any other forum members can hear what "we" can hear when sitting in the back of our i30CRDI manuals.
Unfortunately I don't have anyone to drive so I can sit in rear.
The thump you are hearing isn't the fuel moving in the tank which is under the rear seat?
It happens when the tank is totally full to the brim or almost empty and every place in between. The sound pitch does not vary... only the intensity according to how hard one pushes thru the gears.
Terry H
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Terry, you didn't reply to my earlier question even though I asked twice. :neutral:
However try this: drive along a flat road at 60kmh in 4th gear and without moving the right foot push in the clutch and allow the revs to rise 500 or so and then let the clutch out again. It will thump. I believe that this is what you hear. Is it?
If so, I reckon everyone else will hear the same thump if they try also. It's not really a problem and is simply alleviated by doing as I said while changing up; time the clutch to engage a moment before applying any accellerator to ensure the revs are not allowed to rise in excess of those required in the new gear. I'm not trying to give you a driving lesson, just a way to overcome your concern. 8)
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Terry, you didn't reply to my earlier question even though I asked twice. :neutral:
However try this: drive along a flat road at 60kmh in 4th gear and without moving the right foot push in the clutch and allow the revs to rise 500 or so and then let the clutch out again. It will thump. I believe that this is what you hear. Is it?
If so, I reckon everyone else will hear the same thump if they try also. It's not really a problem and is simply alleviated by doing as I said while changing up; time the clutch to engage a moment before applying any accellerator to ensure the revs are not allowed to rise in excess of those required in the new gear. I'm not trying to give you a driving lesson, just a way to overcome your concern. 8)
Hi Pip
Sorry for the delay in replying. I can't get to the forum on a daily basis so if it seems I'm ignoring you, don't believe it!
I'll try out your suggestion as soon as I get some time in the car.
Yes if I have to adjust my driving style after so many years of not having this issue, then I hope I can relearn.
Thanks for your input.
Terry H
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.... sorry Pip... just realized I missed your post of a while back about this.... :rolleyes:
Terry H
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Hi Terry. I've had a similar thumping experience since my clutch and slave cylinder was replaced recently. Similar symptoms - noise from back, thumping dull thud when changing gear. The noise from the rear has been getting louder recently. I haven't got to the bottom of it either, amidst the multiple other issues I've had with the car. If I get to the route of it, which hopefully I will, I'll let you know.