[Ugly Mongrel]

Over the last few days I've noticed Lubricious idles a little rough. This only happens first thing in the morning and disappears once I give her a few revs.

She is parked in a nice cosy garage and the coldest outside temp has been 16C.

Any thoughs??

[komaterpillar]

glow-plugs

[Ugly Mongrel]

glow-plugs

Hey Brett, how's things?

Do you reckon I should let the glow plugs warm up a bit?

[Doggie 1]

Maybe she's caught a slight chill. 

[Shambles]

If she's already idling - however roughly - the glow plugs shouldn't really feature, unless one or two have become loose (a fault reported recently on the HOCGB).

Fuel quality? Crud in the fuel filter?

[Phil №❶]

Crud in the fuel filter?

That's an interesting thought. My daughter's car was doing that until her service about a month ago. The fuel filter was replaced and I don't recall hearing rough starting since. 

[Dazzler]

I reckon Lubricious has picked up some bad habits from some of the dodgy company she keeps...

[Doggie 1]

She's picked up an STD.
Shaking Throbbing Driveline. 

[eye30]

Are you sure it is the car shaking and not you from the hangover     

[Ugly Mongrel]

I must say I'm overwhelmed by the many helpful replies to my post.

[Doggie 1]

We're here to help. 

[Ugly Mongrel]

We're here to help. 

That's what worries me

[Doggie 1]

 
That's what we need - an ask me anything thread.
Sort of Dear Dorothy on wheels. 

[Asterix]

Over the last few days I've noticed Lubricious idles a little rough. This only happens first thing in the morning and disappears once I give her a few revs.

She is parked in a nice cosy garage and the coldest outside temp has been 16C.

Any thoughs??

Mine did the same.

2 glowplugs were dead.

I replaced all 4 off them, and now she idles nice and smooth 

[komaterpillar]

glow-plugs

Hey Brett, how's things?

Do you reckon I should let the glow plugs warm up a bit?

gday terry, things are good mate, just flew into work for another fortnight

this is what i think is going on. you've got one or two dead glow plugs or the nut on top of them that holds the busbar may be loose. when you first start the engine, the cylinders that haven't preheated properly are not firing. When you give it a rev this raises the fuel rate and effectively overfuels the cylinders that are not firing, ie. makes them fire, similar to pulling the choke on in an old carbie car.
the first couple of fires on those cyinders will get enough heat into them to then fire as per normal.

This is how diesels without glow plugs start, they've got an overfuel solenoid in the pump that pushes the fuel rack into the full fuel position when cranking, overfuelling the engine until it either starts or you stop cranking.

i'd pull the engine cover off and check the busbar and if it checks out ok, throw four glow plugs in it.   

[Phil №❶]

Thanks kom,

That was a good explanation from someone in the know. Does anyone have any ideas on how to treat Hy when the "no fault codes were returned" excuse is used. They obviously have an analyser at service time that determines the state of the car, but that doesn't explain faults that occur randomly or only 1st time starting in the morning. 

[Ugly Mongrel]

Thanks Brett, the glow plugs sound like they could be the problem. Thanks also Astrix for your reply.

I still have a couple of questions..

1. Why is it only noticeable at first start up?
2. Lubricious has 53K on the clock. Do glow plugs go kaput that early in the life of a diesel?

[komaterpillar]

Thanks Brett, the glow plugs sound like they could be the problem. Thanks also Astrix for your reply.

I still have a couple of questions..

1. Why is it only noticeable at first start up?
2. Lubricious has 53K on the clock. Do glow plugs go kaput that early in the life of a diesel?

1. first start up, the car has been sitting over night so everything in the engine is at ambient temperature. once it has been started once in a day the cast iron block and head, will hold enough heat/warmth to keep the injectors/fuel warm enough to not need preheating at all. as we get further into winter it will get worse.

2. haven't got an answer for this one. just one of those things, like why is it that only one or two fail?
i've seen brand new spark plugs not fire straight out of the box

[Ugly Mongrel]

Thanks Brett, you explanation makes sense... I think you've nailed it.  I'll get the dealer to replace the glow plugs.

[komaterpillar]

dunno what hyundai charges for glow plugs but heres some on ebay. about $7.70 each and about $5.50 postage from the UK

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hyundai-i-30-CRDi-Diesel-Engine-Heater-Glow-Plug-Made-EU-/130651949865?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1e6b768b29

[Phil №❶]

What's involved in putting them in kom, I've never done that job b4, but I'm tempted. 

[komaterpillar]

similar to doing plugs in a petrol

remove negative battery lead
remove engine cover
remove the nuts on top of the glow plugs and remove the busbar
blow down around the glow plugs with compressed air to prevent debris from falling into the combustion chamber
remove/replace the glow plugs one at a time, put a little anti-seize (copper or nickel based, i prefer the copper based stuff) on the threads of the new plugs and install, taking care not to cross thread them.
do them up until they seat then go a further 1/8th to 3/16th of a turn
refit the busbar and nuts on top of the new plugs making sure the busbar doesn't touch anything apart from the glow plugs (there was a fault where one end of the busbar would touch the head and blow the glow plug fuse)
refit the engine cover
refit the earth lead to the battery

DONE!!! 

[mystyc]

Hi,
Sorry to hijack, But my i30 has started doing this too intermitantly. The only additional thing is that when it does idle rough at start up it is associated with a fair bit of blueish black smoke before it then runs smooth and clean. Presumably this is the excess fule that has not been burnt properly??? (i am hoping so!)
Its only rough sometimes from cold so hoping it is simply glow plugs? Any advice thankfully receieved!

[Phil №❶]

Hi,
Sorry to hijack, But my i30 has started doing this too intermitantly. The only additional thing is that when it does idle rough at start up it is associated with a fair bit of blueish black smoke before it then runs smooth and clean. Presumably this is the excess fule that has not been burnt properly??? (i am hoping so!)
Its only rough sometimes from cold so hoping it is simply glow plugs? Any advice thankfully receieved!

Hijack, what hijack, you are on topic 

My daughter's car occasionally did this too. The car was serviced and to my knowledge, it hasn't done it since. The diesel fuel filter was changed at that service. The glow plugs were not touched AFAIK. I did mention the rough idle but they did not report or take any further corrective action. 

[BlueI30]

We've been having this same problem (intermittent) with our Diesel I30 (46K) for a while now .

Thanks for the input .

[JohnT]

Mine started doing this pretty much from new.  same symptoms, intermitant rough idle on cold start.  sometimes with smoke, would smooth out in about 5 seconds.

At just over 150k I've just had all fuel system components replaced.  (see thread 'fuel system replacement')   Hasn't done it at all since I got it back...

Sumerised version.  replaced all fuel components due suspected pump bearing fault, and metal contamination of system. on disassembly, inlet manifold and ports found carboned up. Hyundai tell me caused by leaking injector seals and compression blowby past injectors.

I was given a detailed list of what was done / replaced.  glow plugs were not on the list.  Could the rough idle be connected with leaking injector seals ?

I may be wrong,  (wouldn't be the first time..)  but I have some reservations about the glow plug explaination.  In an old school diesel, sure.  But with a modern common rail, not sure glow plugs are that important.  at least not in our climate.  The test would be to try a cold start with the glow plug fuse pulled out.

[JohnT]

Did the experiment thismorning.  20 deg. C.   first start of the day with the glow plug relay removed - no difference what so ever.  No excessive cranking, rough running, or smoke.

Might be a different result at low temps tho

cheers,  J

[Phil №❶]

Did you get any warnings / indications that the GP circuit was not operational 

[JohnT]

Nothing different.  GP indicator light came on and went out as it normally does, which I didn't expect.  but I figure if the relay is pulled it can't be getting power to the GP's.

[Phil №❶]

I wonder if a fault code has been stored in the computer memory. Might need to clarify the reason at the next service.

Maybe someone with obd can try it and see for us.