i30 Owners Club
FUEL ISSUES & ECONOMY => DIESEL => Topic started by: xiziz on April 04, 2017, 21:59:03
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I decided to convert this thread into a log thread on my fuel economy so I don't bog down the entire section with new posts.
Current running record is 3.96 l/100km on Hankook Ventus Prime 2
Car is now running on: Hankook Winter iPIKE RS 419 (Studded winter tires)
___________ORIGINAL POST___________
Mostly posts bad economy here, so I thought this might be a fun spur!
I finally did a tank on less than 4 litres/100km! And I'm still running my studded Kumho Izen KW22's. I think high(for the time of year) temps (5-15c) helped contribute a lot(tire pressure goes up, roads are dry). Maybe my new oil has finally properly lubed the engine and maybee starting to downshift when I notice the DPF regenning to get revs over 2.5k has helped. Who knows, black magic!
All I know is that if the trend continues down at this pace, my car will soon be producing diesel as it runs!
Running 2.8kg/cm2 in my tires, but that was inflated at -15c, so probably closer to 3kg in these temps. Oil atm is Shell Helix Ultra Professional AV-L, 0w30. 4.51 l/100km is my overall average this winter. 4.44 l/100km since 1st of January.
Heres my log for this year so far. And a funny looking chart dating to my purchase.
(http://i.imgur.com/KGuuUZ3.png)
(All in metrics ofc... Duration in minutes except for the sum, that is in hours)
Now to see if I can keep it up for a few tanks to make it statistically viable - one tank could just be a fluke! Putting on summer rubber this weekend, so that should help(my ears are looking forward to it)... even if my history shows the contrary, but I think the last few months I've really started to drive the car like a diesel instead of a petrol... And I've tried my best to keep my lead foot in check, enjoying the ride instead of trying to get to point B yesterday.
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Very interesting - thanks.
You've made me think about also record average speed in my records.
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All I know is that if the trend continues down at this pace, my car will soon be producing diesel as it runs!
:lol:
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Interesting ,thanks xiziz.
You may need to run this test for a year or more.
I remember reading about some guy who did amazing fuel/mileage across the USA. He designed the run, and it was attributed to, the sub zero temperatures during winter.
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:link: Dieselverbrauch: Hyundai - i30 - I30 1.6 CRDI GD Style - Spritmonitor.de (http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/detailansicht/854274.html)
Guess whos Chipmik :mrgreen: Sweden, light up your foot :mrgreen: :goodjob:
Actually wrong link..This was the one intended :whistler:
I30 German top X list of sad boring econimally minded socaled drivers (https://www.spritmonitor.de/de/uebersicht/19-Hyundai/1046-i30.html?powerunit=2)
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:eek: :hatoff: :goodjob:
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:link: Dieselverbrauch: Hyundai - i30 - I30 1.6 CRDI GD Style - Spritmonitor.de (http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/detailansicht/854274.html)
Guess whos Chipmik :mrgreen: Sweden, light up your foot :mrgreen: :goodjob:
:goodjob: Great to see someone else make the same!
Though the highest hill in Denmark is a third of the height of the mountain pass I commute over. :P
My best is 3.91, but my average so far this year is 4.39, 21334km using 937.49l of diesel. Which is pretty good too. Next summer will be exciting, to see what new tires can make of it!
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:link: Dieselverbrauch: Hyundai - i30 - I30 1.6 CRDI GD Style - Spritmonitor.de (http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/detailansicht/854274.html)
Guess whos Chipmik :mrgreen: Sweden, light up your foot :mrgreen: :goodjob:
:goodjob: Great to see someone else make the same!
Though the highest hill in Denmark is a third of the height of the mountain pass I commute over. :P
My best is 3.91, but my average so far this year is 4.39, 21334km using 937.49l of diesel. Which is pretty good too. Next summer will be exciting, to see what new tires can make of it!
I have only had mine for 4½ weeks & driven approx 4500 Km. Only started using spritmonitor 2 tanks ago, but last time, when filled with 36,78 ltr, it was at 3.85 for those km. (naturally brim-brim & odometer checked against GPS to be actually surprisingly accurate as it was within 40 meters over a 20 Km stretch.
BUT very easy for me to do, as i live in Løgstør & drive to Karup airbase. 94 Km each way & one of the least occupied roads in Denmark with 2 roundabouts for the first 65 Km..So not really even fair..Also as you say..We dont like altitude here, so flat as a pancake for most of the drive :-) Just love it compared to the 2.4 ltr Alfa 159 diesel i just have sold..& so does my bank :mrgreen:
Looking forward to see where our eco-race takes us..Although i will cheat even more when it gets more km on the clock & get DPF & EGR removed to avoid inlet clogging up, as im hit by the zone where the EGR virtually always is open (1500 RPM, low demand on torque) & it regens every approx 250 Km now, which really spoils it...Im actually guessing on getting below the official figure of 3.6 l/100 Km when that is done....4000 Danish kroners is all & then it is also upgraded to approx. 160 BHP...Hope that gets the cruise-control to work if Hyundai cant get the oscillations removed by some ECU-update. (know its more eco when controlled by foot..But those long flat stretches..Would be nice if i could take my foot of for some time :'(
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@ChipMIK
You have had plenty of Diesels to compare with! I've had over 30 cars in 40 years (struggle to fit them all in my signature) but only had one diesel (2008 i30 Crdi Manual) :cool:
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@ChipMIK
You have had plenty of Diesels to compare with! I've had over 30 cars in 40 years (struggle to fit them all in my signature) but only had one diesel (2008 i30 Crdi Manual) :cool:
Yeah..But almost all of the diesels i have owned after 1. reg 99 has been "modified" (common-rail types)..At least with a tuning-box (used to sell those boxes for 1500 AUS $ back in 2001 :D ) ...& never EVER before bought a diesel to drive slow....I tell you, not a lot "normal" cars or other diesels keeps up with the 159 2.4 on autobahn..Especially not with DPF removed & box set to "slight foggy rearview mirror" when floored..Spent quite a lot of 1000 Km´s down there during last 7 years with unlimited speed most of the way...Even my Kia Rio 1.5 CRDI was chipped & racingstyle open airfilter...I could beat former BMW 118d´s in acceleration but it went into soft rev-limit at 194 kmh on GPS, which was same as they could..So could follow them, but couldn't overtake...A porchedriver was once so amused by that, he kept following us for 20 odd km´s, watching me trying to get past (In a safe & good manor off course (not joking, its not a racetrack, you drive with respect & think safety all the time)...In the end he flashed his rearlights after passing at >250 KmH
I named my i30 "sparegris" saver-pig...Like the pigs with a slot in for kids to save coins in :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
What a good bunch of memories..23:23 here & time to get to bed so i can get down & hopefully get a bit of MH-60R Seahawk sim. flying tomorrow...It almost smells of diesel too ;-)
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Interesting stuff! I usually only do cosmetic changes to my cars. Worry about warranty and insurance issues. Did used to drive quick by Tasmanian standard though (lucky to still be about to tell the tale!) :crazy1: :sweating:
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Interesting stuff! I usually only do cosmetic changes to my cars. Worry about warranty and insurance issues. Did used to drive quick by Tasmanian standard though (lucky to still be about to tell the tale!) :crazy1: :sweating:
You are right where the manufactures wants you. No one can detect ex. a tuningbox, (so much nonsense written about these during the years, but thats another story ;-) ), should anything go wrong its unclick & remove. If you adjust it too high there will be a faultcode yes, but any 10$ obd-dongle (for android/pc) will be able to reset this. Insurance-wise we havent got that issue yet here ;-)
Well...getting close to time for another 94 Km in the "sparegris" :-)
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Seahawk and MH60R are 2 different choppers in Aus. :lol:
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MH60R is newest generation with the fancy glasscockpit...All thats lacking is ability to make coffe & no angry-birds in the SW :rofl:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq1LIyVKu1A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq1LIyVKu1A)
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Ah yes, I confused it with the our MRH, which is more of a transport chopper.
However, we do have the Romeo as well. It's just that I'm used to our older S-70B-2 Seahawk.
Old (http://www.navy.gov.au/aircraft/s-70b-2-seahawk)
and
New (http://www.navy.gov.au/aircraft/mh-60r-seahawk)
and the
MRH (http://www.navy.gov.au/aircraft/mrh-90-taipan)
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Yeah ok...I think were the last one to get the Romeo after you guys...Were still to receive the last 2 or 3 out of 9...What a bus, compared to the Lynx its taking over from...But should be way more reliant & for the purpose we need them, i believe its a huge leap forward. (Although a full-motion sim of the Lynx like the one im working on, would me much more fun for us teccies to "maintain" :lol:
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I have only had mine for 4½ weeks & driven approx 4500 Km. Only started using spritmonitor 2 tanks ago, but last time, when filled with 36,78 ltr, it was at 3.85 for those km. (naturally brim-brim & odometer checked against GPS to be actually surprisingly accurate as it was within 40 meters over a 20 Km stretch.
BUT very easy for me to do, as i live in Løgstør & drive to Karup airbase. 94 Km each way & one of the least occupied roads in Denmark with 2 roundabouts for the first 65 Km..So not really even fair..Also as you say..We dont like altitude here, so flat as a pancake for most of the drive :-) Just love it compared to the 2.4 ltr Alfa 159 diesel i just have sold..& so does my bank :mrgreen:
Looking forward to see where our eco-race takes us..Although i will cheat even more when it gets more km on the clock & get DPF & EGR removed to avoid inlet clogging up, as im hit by the zone where the EGR virtually always is open (1500 RPM, low demand on torque) & it regens every approx 250 Km now, which really spoils it...Im actually guessing on getting below the official figure of 3.6 l/100 Km when that is done....4000 Danish kroners is all & then it is also upgraded to approx. 160 BHP...Hope that gets the cruise-control to work if Hyundai cant get the oscillations removed by some ECU-update. (know its more eco when controlled by foot..But those long flat stretches..Would be nice if i could take my foot of for some time :'(
Mine is rated for 4.5l/100km(standard 1.6crdi, 81kw, tourer), perfectly plausible to get under it! Mine took about 15000km to start to get the numbers down, you'll be there too in no time with that decent commute! I do 75km each way, but 35km of those are over 480m high hills with 7 degree inclines (which the car takes in 6th at 70kph!) and very, very windy. I don't have a lot of obstacles either, I count 9 intersections where I have to yield or make a left turn (including driveway and turning into the hospital parking lot), no lighted intersections or roundabouts.
I have gotten the entire distance without touching the brake pedal until I have to stop to reverse into a parking slot at work.
I think I'll get regular tanks under 4l with new tires - close enough that it could be the difference I need. I think I need to stop buying heavy stuff to bolt into the car too, added 25kg of sound insulation and a metal cargo net this summer. Already got the child seat, tow bar and a wide assortment of cargo straps, tow line etc stuffed away. I did take the roof rack off though when its not in use(makes a lot of noise!)
I've been thinking of blocking the EGR and removing the DPF and getting a ECU remap, but I I'd only do it for lower consumption and I'm unsure if I will make up the investment. Boxes all seem to promise gold, but I've got a hard time finding any data on how consumption is changed and what brand to get, found 6-7 different brands and only a few I heard about before.
Oscillation in the cruisecontrol get a lot better when the engine is properly worn in, I don't have them at all any more - I run on CC almost all the time.
I used to drive like mad, full power then full brake to take the turns and back on power - 300-400km per tank my first car did, a BMW 326i. Since then I work in radiology and I get to see a lot of car crash victims and know exactly what 10kph over the limit will do when a moose walks out in front of a car, or a head on with a truck 30kph over...
Then when I got kids, I figured its not worth the risk to get to work 5 minutes earlier - I enjoy the ride at posted speed instead, CC helps my chronically heavy right foot actually keep the speed limit. :)
I don't know a lot about helicopters more than that when they come, someone is seriously hurt or has committed a serious crime. :)
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@xiziz , thanks for pulling this thread :backontopic: :goodjob:
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Good one Sweden :goodjob: Mines a hatchback, otherwise same (life..Believe its lowest specs...But i got NAV & armrest (MUST) already :lol: )
Ill be looking forward to get even better economy out of mine in a couple of moth time when it shoud be at 20.000. Just before winter-tire season..
Im at aound 600 Km now on this tank & twice i have been very close to 26 Km/l...But then regen kicks in & before it is done (tried 3. gear during regen today), im below 25 again..Also with EGR open most of the time, i really believe 10% better Km/l should be achievable. But again...First towbar mounting next week, then CC dealt with (whatever direction it takes, gonna call the salesperson tomorrow) & at least past 15.000 Km before i wanna get it blanked of.
95% of the Tuningboxes do the same. They change the feedback-signal from the common-rail so ECU thinks its running low on pressure, then ask hi-press. pump to turn up & voila, you get more diesel injected. Just doesn't work at idle as it will make the engine knock, so theres a very simple map built into the box to not change the signal when low rpm where pressure is prob. around 3-400 bars. So forget the name of the box, unless you go totally beserk & buy a box that also changes the signal from the MAP-sensor...But i would then prefer a rolling road ECU-tuning at any time. The DPF is totally ok with the tuning-box. Economy...Dont believe in any change. The ECU cant see the real figures anymore, so your dashboard will for sure be more optimistic, but brim-brim will tell the tale (i actually never tried comparing...I have an old tuning-box for a Kia 1.5 CRDi & think it fits, but havent tested as i know i will get addicted instantly if it fits :mrgreen: )
A helicopter is 3 million parts desperately trying to shake itself into pieces...At least thats my definition...Damn i miss the old DG-300 glider i flew 25 years ago..Totally different ballgame :happydance:
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Since we have it alive again, I might as well drop my latest numbers and charts! So enjoy the pictures! :matrix:
(http://i.imgur.com/Wpazq0Y.png)
Here is my log as of today, I added a column for average over the last three tanks, so get a better mean line over time. Vacation really hurts economy! Most trips end up being shorter (or longer and at motorway speeds, 120kph is not good for FC), on unknown roads and with heavier load (family and gear loaded, easily 200kg) and roof rack mounted. July will always be above average!
Also got my service done in July, again 0w-30 shell helix ultra pro AV-L, new fuel filter this time too and a (badly needed) wheel alignment.
(http://i.imgur.com/vT6pG0x.png)
Average cross referenced to what tires fitted on the car. About last august I started trying to drive more economically. I'm down to an average of 4.30l/100km(so far 2017) from 4.56l/100km(2016) on summer tires. Winters are not a fair comparison - the first winter I was still running in the engine and had a higher consumption just for having a new car... Only had 6580km on the clock when I bought it 2 years old)
(http://i.imgur.com/3AbiWUO.png)
This one is quite interesting. The trip computer seems more accurate over time than pure brim->brim readings, or at least closer to the average.
@ChipMIK I wish I had armrests in mine! Regen is a real killer, I think mine goes off far to often, when I measured I got about 500km between, but it feels like its going every other day(300km). Unfortunately it seems to always choose the mountain pass to regen, which means when I am rolling downhill I'm still using fuel. :censored:
I wish we got an indicator on the dash saying we need to regen within x km and get to choose when to start it manually.
Well, best would be if I removed the DPF and regen cycle(how does that work?) - its made for having better air quality in cities(where people should be going on mass transit or driving petrols because of the short distances anyway...). Out here in the forests it makes no sense, I doubt all these old logging trucks have DPF filters.
How do you know if the EGR is open?
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Impressive stuff! Looks like I'll have to be happy with mid 7's in my petrol SR, but still about 1.5 better than my previous car.
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Impressive work you do on the measurement xiziz :goodjob:
Isnt 5w-30 used just to mimize oil-usage, whereas a more fuelsaving oil would be -40 instead? I understand you use 0w in sweden with the low temps you get, whereas i think most cars use 5w in denmark?
I have spent some time on motorway & city...So usage for this tank is @ approx 1 KKm down to 24.2 Km/l with no chance of getting it back up again on the last 8 liters or so..Can´t really win them all ;-)
Your so right about the DPF....
Thing is, when you have a brand new car, everything is "ok" or tolerable with EGR/DPF. After 100 KKm my former Alfa 159 2.4 was so filled up with tar-like stuff that there were places with several mm of this & especially bad around the EGR-valve at the start of the inlet. Whats even worse is that people that drive economically sound, has the EGR-valve open a lot more of the time as its only during low/midrange RPM & load the valve i open. (idle excluded as open valve here would make it run very poor if at all)
So you drive it nice & save the enviroment a bit, then after xx KKm, the inlet starts to get less possible flow through it & car starts to emit a bit more smoke than previously...This smoke gets cought in DPF which then regenerates more often AND back into in inlet through EGR & presto, we have a self-accelerating loop & an engine thats really suffering.
Regens should actually be avoidable on the 1.6 CRDi if you only do motorway-runs as with +2200 RPM & load on wheels (not just free-reving), the exhaustgasses should be hot enough to heat the particles enough to turn them instantly into ash...BUT again, eco-driving & you get fined by regens controlled by ECU measuring the differental pressure across the DPF. (On this tank my regens seems to come more & more often, 250 Km between isnt far off :-( )
Regarding EGR-valve monitoring. You should be able to see the status of it by a 10$ EOBD-dongle & the app "torque" (10$ on android, iphones can only do it through wifi, which is more costly & slower update). The app is below 10$ to the best of my nowledge and theres even a freeware version of it too.
01:34...Bedtime, hope i havent forgotten anything :D
BTW. The armrest i got is not original but made for the i30. It can feel a bit flimsy, but i believe its the console itself & not so much the armrest. Heres the link to the type i bought: http://www.ebay.de/itm/pro-tec-Hyundai-I30-GD-Mittelarmlehne-Textil-schwarz-Passform-Armlehne-Auto-/391573215266?hash=item5b2b951822:g:jA0AAOSwLF1X59EE (http://www.ebay.de/itm/pro-tec-Hyundai-I30-GD-Mittelarmlehne-Textil-schwarz-Passform-Armlehne-Auto-/391573215266?hash=item5b2b951822:g:jA0AAOSwLF1X59EE)
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@Dazzler petrol makes a dig difference on where and how you drive though, my my2001 2.4l auto volvo s80(big car) did 7.2l/100km driving on my roads, when I was living in the city it was at 12l/100km.
I reccon the petrol pd 1.4 auto would do mid 4s here. Pretty good roads for economy - long distances, light traffic helps with coasting, few intersections and 80kph speed limit.
@ChipMIK
5w-30 is standard here too, but it runs a lot better on the 0w, so I use that. 5W-40 might be better for economy, dont think it would make a huge difference though(not to knowlageable on oils effects on fc).
I will look into the egr blocker, dongle(and a new phone, managed to break the screen two days after the coffee incident) and armreast later, gotta pay for my new balcony and were getting fiber soon, which is expensive up front. Thanks for the link!
Yeah, my commute takes me on 70 & 80kph roads, so I rarley go over 1500rpm. Shame regulations hurt the ones tring to drive as friendly as possible. Bet having to replace a clogged car costs the enviroment more than what is let out without dpf, regen and egr. For city dwellers, i understand that you dont want all those particles but better to ban cars in the cities in that case, not like its hard to get around a mid or large sized city without a car.
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Thanks :goodjob:
:link: 5w30 vs. 5w40: Determining Which Motor Oil is Right for Your Car (http://www.zoniv.com/5w30-vs-5w40/)
Actually i has got it wrong between 30 & 40...So 5w-30 for me too in the future...40 is too thick for modern cars from what i found on google...Guess my 2.4 JTDm wasnt a modern car :lol:
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@xiziz
Tasmania is quite a hilly Island. I did my first long drive today (over 250 kilometres of mainly highway driving at speeds up to an indicated 115 kph) and trip computer says 6.7 L/100 kms for my 1.6 Turbo Petrol. Regular town driving gives low to mid 8's. Average for 2100 kms driven to date reported at right on 7.5 L/100 kms (the official advertised average figure)
Sorry everyone for the .. :offtopic:
I'll start a thread in Petrol economy section.
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Just had to...
78,53 mpg that is ;-) So official figures is achievable :-) Even incl. 5 Km (3 Miles) of city-driving. Speed at 85-90 Km/t where possible :goodjob:
(https://preview.ibb.co/d3Uj6a/IMG_20170807_161452.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mAaP6a)
(https://preview.ibb.co/hDt5CF/IMG_20170807_161500.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kRnAev)
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@Dazzler would suit me perfectly then! I like both Island and hills, and heat. :) Pity aus immigration is so tough(join eu!), I bet yall are in need of good radiographers too!
@ChipMIK you measure in km/l in Denmark? How very, very confusing. Like measuring speed in minutes per kilometer(which I hear them talking about on the radio to make people aware of how litte gain in time going faster is). :P
Still 3.6l/100km is very good, wish I could do that. Lets hope the ecu is correct!
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@Dazzler would suit me perfectly then! I like both Island and hills, and heat. :) Pity aus immigration is so tough(join eu!), I bet yall are in need of good radiographers too!
@ChipMIK you measure in km/l in Denmark? How very, very confusing. Like measuring speed in minutes per kilometer(which I hear them talking about on the radio to make people aware of how litte gain in time going faster is). :P
Still 3.6l/100km is very good, wish I could do that. Lets hope the ecu is correct!
:crazy1: What about your "mil" then..Can only be in sweden they still live? :P But guess its so with all units..If your raised with it, you can easily compare & know what the figures means, whereas l/100 Km is realy stupid to me..Why not L/100 Km, then you wouldnt need so many digits after the comma :lol:
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BTW. After starting fuel measures 2500 Km ago (brim-brim), the ECU has been off by -0.1 Km/l & - 0,05 Km/l so. Clock testet to be within..Remember it to be 40 meter or so over a 20 Km stretch compared to GPS, so ECU should be pretty close this time too ;-)
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@Dazzler would suit me perfectly then! I like both Island and hills, and heat. :) Pity aus immigration is so tough(join eu!), I bet yall are in need of good radiographers too!
Yes, it's a great place to live and we probably do need radiographers. There always tends to be a shortage of medical professionals down here. :crazy2:
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Interesting ,thanks xiziz.
You may need to run this test for a year or more.
I remember reading about some guy who did amazing fuel/mileage across the USA. He designed the run, and it was attributed to, the sub zero temperatures during winter.
interesting claim cold helps economy with diesel , as back in 2008 we had a member named thumper who claimed cold weather was causing his fuel economy to go through the roof said summer helped his economy.
I think in usa just drive on interstates in mid west as I did not see hills at all and no traffic or traffic lights or towns to go through there interstates by pass towns.
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@ChipMIK Yeah, swedish mile/Mil(10km) is a weird convention, useful mostly in rural Sweden where it gets bothersome to say 20 kilometers or 30 kilometers , instead of 2 mil/3 mil. The usual l/mil is weird though with modern cars since they are all just two decimals as opposed to older cars that were between 1 and 2 l/mil. l/100km gives a little more fidelity. km/l is probably a more logical way to calculate, if our fuel sensors were a little more accurate - how much further can I get on the fuel I have.
@Lakes Cold air is denser and less moist gives more power however this is also offset by the fact that lower temperatures make the rubber in the (summer)tires get harder when under 10c(more resistance) and in a diesel it takes a very long time for the engine to reach operating temperature, easily 20km in -20c. Guess the fuel is slightly more dense too, so more fuel per liter.
My winter tires use more fuel than my summer tires, despite being 195/65/15 as opposed to 205/55/16. Winter tires are studded and both have an E marking in fuel economy. I'll see what my new winter tires get this winter, the Kumhos are worn down and I have four (studded) Hankook iPIKE RS 419 in my basement that I'll be mounting in November. And unless wear slows down in the Ventus Prime 2 summer tires they will need replacing next spring, looks like Nokian Green or Conti Eco atm.
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@ChipMIK Yeah, swedish mile/Mil(10km) is a weird convention, useful mostly in rural Sweden where it gets bothersome to say 20 kilometers or 30 kilometers , instead of 2 mil/3 mil. The usual l/mil is weird though with modern cars since they are all just two decimals as opposed to older cars that were between 1 and 2 l/mil. l/100km gives a little more fidelity. km/l is probably a more logical way to calculate, if our fuel sensors were a little more accurate - how much further can I get on the fuel I have.
@Lakes Cold air is denser and less moist gives more power however this is also offset by the fact that lower temperatures make the rubber in the (summer)tires get harder when under 10c(more resistance) and in a diesel it takes a very long time for the engine to reach operating temperature, easily 20km in -20c. Guess the fuel is slightly more dense too, so more fuel per liter.
My winter tires use more fuel than my summer tires, despite being 195/65/15 as opposed to 205/55/16. Winter tires are studded and both have an E marking in fuel economy. I'll see what my new winter tires get this winter, the Kumhos are worn down and I have four (studded) Hankook iPIKE RS 419 in my basement that I'll be mounting in November. And unless wear slows down in the Ventus Prime 2 summer tires they will need replacing next spring, looks like Nokian Green or Conti Eco atm.
xiziz have to check air quality on the day, just because it is cold does not say it is more dense , can have more water in the air so thats not as dense. I found this out racing we measure air quality on the day for fine tuning.
but thumper claimed the intercooler was part of cause, but did you know a diesel is not controlled by air? it is a full bore of air and the engine speed controlled by amount of fuel, with a petrol less fuel more air they run lean get hot, with diesel more fuel less air they get hot, so other way around, this is why a diesel has a flat spot off idle but these new ones mask it well.
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Why dont you just let a MAF control ECU-MAP instead of seperate measurement or is removed due to restricting flow? (it could just be aspiring sorroung air & not even be mounted on inlet but have a small fan to force air past sensors for live data? couldnt be many grams such a setup would take.
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temperature, easily 20km in -20c. Guess the fuel is slightly more dense too, so more fuel per liter.
My winter tires use more fuel than my summer tires, despite being 195/65/15 as opposed to 205/55/16. Winter tires are studded and both have an E marking in fuel economy. I'll see what my new winter tires get this winter, the Kumhos are worn down and I have four (studded) Hankook iPIKE RS 419 in my basement that I'll be mounting in November. And unless wear slows down in the Ventus Prime 2 summer tires they will need replacing next spring, looks like Nokian Green or Conti Eco atm.
xiziz have to check air quality on the day, just because it is cold does not say it is more dense , can have more water in the air so thats not as dense. I found this out racing we measure air quality on the day for fine tuning.
but thumper claimed the intercooler was part of cause, but did you know a diesel is not controlled by air? it is a full bore of air and the engine speed controlled by amount of fuel, with a petrol less fuel more air they run lean get hot, with diesel more fuel less air they get hot, so other way around, this is why a diesel has a flat spot off idle but these new ones mask it well.
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Way back when :undecided: we used to experiment with water sprayed into the carby to increase power and reduce fuel consumption.
I still have a Fordson tractor that has two fuel tanks, petrol to start and heat the motor, then switch to Kerosene for normal running. Earlier tractors would switch to Kero and water.
Regarding the winter tyres, the extra energy needed to drive higher traction rubber vs. energy to used for (comparably) dry weather slicks, should noticeably add to fuel consumption.
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I decided to convert this thread into a log thread so I don't clutter this board to much more.
So I finally got around to putting the winter tires on, new for the season Hankook Winter iPIKE RS 419, with 9mm of thread and plenty of studs left. They have done 5000km on my previous car, a volvo S80, but are in good condition, but getting a bit old (2013 manufacture). I'm expecting them to wear out during the winter(20000km).
While I was at it, and against(and with too) a lot of fellow forumites advice, I plugged the EGR, full plate, no holes. Very easy job. I drive 90% in the 1500-2000rpm band, so should be a lot cleaner oil.
Edit: I also got a obd2 reader and torque to get some more instrumentation. /edit
(https://i.imgur.com/pHnJVey.jpg)
Whats left of my Hankook Ventus Prime 2's. Worst tire is 1mm, best is 2.5mm. Rear passenger seemed to wear worst, both fronts at 2.5mm. I had the car balanced this summer because of the inner thread wear, but it seems to have gotten worse anyway - hope its fine for my new tires.
So I gotta get new summer tires before April, plenty of time to choose - These did just over 50k km. Perfectly okay. They have handled fine until I took them off. Very spongy at pressures under 2.7kg, ~38PSI?
But nice and stable at higher pressures. Only gripe I have with them is that they are very noisy, even with good thread. They are rated E for fuel economy, so could be better there too. Never felt unsafe on water/damp roads etc, but they seem to force themselves into the water instead of dispersing it.
(https://i.imgur.com/9AI19Qh.png)
Current fuel log chart for 2017. I think the spike at the end is due to the rear tires wearing down to much, felt more vibrations, car has not rolled as well on fuel cut off so something has happened to the resistance there.
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Thanks for that xiziz, all very interesting. :goodjob:
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Just thought I'd post a table of DPF regens that I have been monitoring. I got torque app and set it to flash an alarm when exhaust temp climbs over 600 - much more reliable than keeping track if the instant consumption gauge shows when coasting.
I've also done two tanks without a single regen and have come to the conclusion that regens hardly affect fuel economy (except when they start 3km from home :headbang: and you have to take a 20km detour even though its had 72km to start up prior...) in any noticeable way.
Also, driving in -20c seems to make a lot of soot for the filter to burn off, as I get much more frequent regens when its very cold.
(https://i.imgur.com/jAIPQd2.png)
Three of the regens are aborted ones, the short ones (ie I aborted the one before and the short one was let go all the way), if they have not been aborted the minimum time between regens seems to be 500km. This is all mostly on the same route, I have not done any longer trips than to work and back home.
Winter tires are averaging 4.67l/100km, but its been a cold and very snowy winter - old ones did 4.57l/100km over their lifetime. Will post a graph on that when I change over to summers.
I can't wait to get summer rubber on again and get a break from the clattering of studs(but we had a lot of snow, and driving on snow is like driving on clouds, soooooo nice and quiet I turn the radio off and enjoy!)
:snow:
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Thanks heaps Xiziz. It is such a different world. DPFs and snow and studded tyres.. :goodjob:
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Just a tiny update:
(https://i.imgur.com/4371e9K.png)
EGR blocked off at mid November 2017. Also winter tires on December first to April first.
(https://i.imgur.com/0eJP2MH.png)
(Don't mind the August spike, its only one tank so far where I managed to get 54.5l in after only getting 48l in the previous fill, averages out over time though). Also had the brakes seize over summer.
I can only draw one conclusion, and that is that blocking off the EGR on a modern turbo diesel increases fuel consumption. In my case, its up 8% or ~136l/year...
And then I measured the same five month period 2017 vs 2018 with the only difference that the 2017 was done on OEM Hankooks rated fuel economy F vs 2018 with EGR blocked running Michellin Energy Saver + rated fuel economy B. New rims also saved some 3kg of rotating mass per wheel.
So I believe it might actually be worse, closer to a 10-15% increase when you do the majority of your driving cruising at 70-90 kph.
Is it worth the cleaner oil, presumably longer engine life, higher emissions and less stuttering(more pleasant drive) sub 2000 RPM. I don't know. I gotta think about this one - Its a lot of fuel money, but what is the price of a clogged engine?
I'm gonna have to remove the blocking plate and test a month or two and see the difference on the same tires.
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Another interesting post xiziz. Like you say, that is quite a marked difference. :eek:
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Really impressive empirical investigation and a surprising result over the blocking of the EGR valve! :goodjob:
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Yeah, I dont get the maths around how it can be possible. I think the bad brakes that have been deteriorating since about the same time I installed the EGR block plate(thats when I applied the wrong grease to the glide pins). So they probably have contributed some too.
I filled a 4.13l/100km tank today. I will keep the plate in place atleast untill its time for winter tires, then I should be able to deduct the brakes effect.
When I inspected the right rear(that they had off and checked for imbalance at the workshop but said it was fine) I found two new set of weights and the one old set was removed. So there was a balance problem in the tire after all.