i30 Owners Club
GOT PROBLEMS OR ISSUES? => DIESEL => Topic started by: Rof on November 20, 2010, 14:42:41
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Hi. Anyone had this happen to them and established what the route cause(s) where, inc how Hyundai dealt with it?
My Hyundai i30 CRDI pulls to the left - has done pretty much since I got it. Steering has been quite strange. Got worse since someone bumped my car in January 2010 and the dealer replaced the steering rack. Despite several complaints and correction of the tracking multiple times by the dealer, following the clutch being replaced after the slave cylinder exploded, under vehicle banging started. No idea if the two are related. However the banging got a lot worse recently and despite sending it back to the dealer who could find no fault, the steering continued to behave strangely, and within a week started veering quite badly to the left, or even right, with the car having a sort of rolling motion from side to side.
The steering got so bad in pulling to the left that the car hit the curb, and even though at low speed (30mph), resulted in an accident. I'm really concerned about it obviously as the situation has got serious, putting my safety at risk. Has anyone got to the bottom of this - what have Hyundai been saying? There seem to be too many cases for it to be coincidence (have read other postings on steering rack issues).
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Take it to the dealer and refuse to leave until they fix it, sounds pretty serious. My rack bolts needed tightening and caused a slight wander but nothing to the extent you describe.
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Thanks. That's what I'm trying to do, but they appear to be stalling. I'm worried about driving my vehicle until they get to the route cause as it's my safety and that of other owners I'm concerned about. Now it's resulted in an incident it really has got serious. I just hope no one else gets to the same point of having an accident before Hyundai really take note. How serious does it need to get before they act to investigate and rectify the route cause?
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Accident damage is not really part of the warranty scope if they think its the root cause, it should be covered by insurance. If the original 'bump' has damaged something other than the steering rack, ie control arm, ball joint etc that may explain the banging and pulling as the front suspension has to deal with reaction torque from the engine which changes rapidly when changing gears. Just a thought. See how it goes after this visit.
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Hi. All the banging etc was there before the second most recent accident hitting the curb. Hyundai certified the vehicle fit on replacement of the steering rack after the bump in January, after which point the steering problems became worse. Since the recent bump hitting the curb, following the steering handling issues, my insurance company will only replace damaged items as a result of the accident (wheel, tyre, any required checks), they have told me they will not fix the route cause, especially if it's warranty related. :'(
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Sounds to me like there is a hidden 'wound(s)' from the first bump. It'll get sorted out, you have plenty of support here to help out.
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Thank you! Got every one I can think of involved over here in the UK but trying to get to the route cause and ultimately a car back that I feel safe to drive (which is the end point for me, as all these problems may impact any insurance claims in the future), is super stressful. :'(
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When you had the initial bump did the car have a FULL body alignment, not just wheels?
May have knocked a body part which is used to secure steering components etc out of place and, therefore, this is causing your problem as the they are not true?
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Hi Rof I can see your concern (this problem is very serious & frustrating for you) :'(
I am just a little concerned that you paint a picture on here that it is a common problem... :eek:
Whereas, although a few have had their steering rack (or a component of it replaced) due to a bit of a rattle .. I do not recall anyone else having the major issue that you have experienced.. :cool:
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Hi. Thanks for your responses. Don't know whether the vehicle had a full body alignment check when I got the vehicle back after repair in January. Will need to ask the insurance company and check the repair records, if I have all the details of what was carried out. The accident in January was a slow sliding bump into my front passenger side wing, so I can't imagine it has lots to do with it, however the repair was undertaken by the same dealer that has constantly serviced and undertaken warranty issues on my vehicle.
I am concerned, as there seem to be multiple complaints about steering rack problems and steering pull issues on other sections of this forum and I don't want anyone to get to the stage it's got to for me. :'(
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Hi Rof, the steering column problem often described here, is just a rattle noise. It has nothing to do with the steering effectiveness neither is a safety problem and Huyndai is awared of it.
Wheel allignment usually suffers from city driving especially when parking alongside road curbs and i30 is a little more vulnerable due to the multilink rear suspension. I've already done wheel allignment twice and i'm looking for the 3rd in 11.000 km :mrgreen: Further, the electronic power steering has a rather "strange" feeling which overstates the "pulling" issue (aforementioned may be subjective notes from a suffering city driver :'( )
Anyway, in both cases mentioned above, i don't think that you should have a single safety problem.
Just be a little more confident when asking from your dealer to check your car. No matter what (or whose) the problem is, he has to identify t.
I think that an independent expert in wheel allignment would have the problem beeing tracked down (if it's a chassis problem). Cost is ~40€ here.
Cheers
...My rack bolts needed tightening and caused a slight wander but nothing to the extent you describe.
Thanks for the tip. I'll have mine checked too; think i have a sliiight :mrgreen: wander after replacement of steering column.
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Hi Babis. Thanks for your guidance. The wheels were aligned only a week before and the pulling was a fight to keep the car going in a straight line. Practically every month they have to realign them. Not right. Hence having an incident at 30mph where the steering pulled the vehicle into a curb, ripping a hole in the tyre and damaging the alloy. :'(
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I gues you need a full geometry check. Most places charge for this, so you might want to see if the insurers will do it as part of any warranty they offer on the previous repair.
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Worth reading this:
https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=7142.0#new (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=7142.0#new)
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...someone bumped my car ...and the dealer replaced the steering rack.
...correction of the tracking multiple times by the dealer,
...slave cylinder exploded, under vehicle banging started.
...the banging got a lot worse recently
...car having a sort of rolling motion from side to side.
...the car hit the curb
...Practically every month they have to realign them.
Any problem in geometry should show up during so many realignments.
Even a beginner technician can't miss a warped part of the chassis.
So, maybe the dealer lies because he didn't fix the car on the first place
or
there is a problem which can't be identified during the alignment proccess
or
...both above mentioned
I think a part is missing, so we can get the full picture. Have you noticed by any chance, a slight unilateral tremble from the car above ~120 km/h, getting worse as the speed raises?
What to do:
- Get an alignment job and watch over closely.
Final reading on the Tech's PC screen should be a "green ~0,00" (any other reading at the end of the proccess usually indicates a warped chassis part).
- Drive the car around the corner (the point is to half-rotate transmission parts) and get the Tech to repeat the proccess.
The readings should be again a "green ~0,00".
If they aren't, then i'm afraid there is an askwed trans-axle or even a damaged differential or both. It's a possibility if someone bumps you hard on the wheel, esp. onto the long trans-axle's side.
Or you can check it yourself for free:
- rotate wheels by hand and check that trans-axles rotating smoothly.
- shake trans-axles up and down. They should be fairly constrained from moving inside differential.
The hard thing is to prove that any potential problem was there before you bumped onto the curb.
It's their fault since you have receipts of the multiple realignments before the incident :wink:
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Yea, ideally you want them all dead on but there are small acceptable tolerances from Hyundai:
Front:
Toe 0mm +/- 2mm
Camber -0o36' +/- 0o30'
Caster 4.43o +/- 0.5o
Rear:
Toe 1mm +/- 2mm
Camber -1o9' +/- 0o30'
This information is a little out of date, but I guess it still holds.
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Yea, ideally you want them all dead...
:lol: :lol: Oh, hang on...
Anyway, just make sure that they are some... green numbers on screen :mrgreen:
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From what you are saying about the car wandering left to right could possibly be the condition of the roads you are driving on or maybe the tyres you have on the car have worn unevenly across the tread face and following the undulations in the road surface which makes it wander all over the road.
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Babis, Lorean,
Thanks for the information. Really helpful. Still progressing with getting my car fixed. Babis - you're right - I have the history to prove the multiple realignments, just proving the route cause that I need to do. Will keep you posted. Cheers for all your help. :)
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Jason,
Thanks for the advice, but it is definitely not the condition of the road as the wander is not a wander but a pull, and it's nothing to do with the road undulations/conditions. It's been problematic since the steering rack replacement and there's been multiple realignments. There's something more mechanically / electrically / software related that's at fault. Just finding it. Will keep this forum posted as there's other steeering rack problems listed elsewhere, and so I hope any outcome of my investigation will help others.
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I'm alarmed to see that you're driving the car if you think it's unsafe. I'd be inclined to contact Hyundai UK and if they wouldn't help, then maybe the press.
But before that: Have you had new tyres fitted? I once had four identical tyres fitted to another car. It pulled and pulled. No adjustment worked. Eventually we looked closely at the identical, brand new tyres and found that the left ones were made in Michelin's Turkish factory while the right ones were made in France. We put one set on the front, the others on the rear and the problem was solved.
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Rof's last post regarding this issue was over a month ago hopefully it is fixed (otherwise that tyre info might be a help) Very interesting scenario :scared:
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Rof's last post regarding this issue was over a month ago hopefully it is fixed (otherwise that tyre info might be a help) Very interesting scenario :scared:
New tyres can also pull because one of them has some conicity.
Which, in short, means the belts have been laid under the tread marginally off-centre.
Moving the problem tyre to the rear will stop the pulling and in a few days or so the tyre will wear evenly enough to not be a problem when back on the front.
However, it IS a claimable condition (at least in Oz). The condition is usually picked up in final check x-rays at the factory but minor cases can slip through.
Not that I think that is the problem in this case, just adding further info to Dazz's post for everyone's future reference.
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Hello all.
Situation update - the route cause is NOT new tyres. The tyres on the vehicle at the time of the complaint were the same when I bought the vehicle - fitted by Hyundai.
Despite Hyundai doing multiple road tests and stating there was nothing wrong, after persistence and your multiple suggestions, with me having to diagnose the fault to them with your help, the fault was found to be in the first instance after a full diagnostic check, the steering rack - again. Hyundai UK do not attribute the faulty steering rack as a cause of the incident. The Vehicle Safety Branch have also been involved along with trading standards.
The steering rack has now been replaced again under warranty after the incident repairs were completed, however I still have outstanding steering handling and warranty issues, identified by an independent assessor, which Hyundai failed to diagnose properly.
The outstanding steering handling issue is the need to hold the steering wheel in both hands, with the steering pulling the vehicle to the left or right, irrespective of the road camber. This is possibly attributed to an upgrade in the EPS undertaken by Hyundai as noted from a service record? In addition the clunking underneath the vehicle which I complained about prior to the incident, is attributed to anti-roll bar links, which need replacing.
As a result of the extensive and ongoing case surrounding the multiple issues which Hyundai have failed to diagnose properly and in a timely manner I am having to take the matter further. Any help in the outstanding issues would be gratefully appreciated.
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Hi Rof. Thanks for the feedback. All very upsetting to hear.
Somewhere in the forums is a post regarding recalibration of the EPS unit, for instance when the battery has been disconnected (I'm at work so don't have much searching time). It's to do with turning the steering wheel 3/4 left then back again. Might be worth looking at.
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Hi Shambles.
Thanks for your help. Have passed the information on and the associate link for further investigation.
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Please keep us informed of your progress.
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Will do no problem!
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The outstanding steering handling issue is the need to hold the steering wheel in both hands, with the steering pulling the vehicle to the left or right, irrespective of the road camber.
Under acceleration and/or braking? or just under normal driving?
How hard do you have to hold it?
Describe the symptom some more.....
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I don't drive my vehicle anymore as I find it unpleasant and unsafe. The description of the symptom is: You need to hold the steering wheel all the time, as if you're driving a suped up sports car. It is not the steering behaviour I had when I bought the vehicle. It has become over-responsive. The steering can pull either to the left or right anytime, and it also happens when braking. Any slight camber in the road and it will respond erractically, either pulling towards the camber, away, or may simply go in a straight line. When the incident happened, pulling the vehicle to the left, the cruise control was on at 30mph and the road was straight. The assessor found it had a tendency to pull more to the left (verge). There is a reported ESP upgrade in the service record log. The vehicle was superchiped on recommendation from the Hyundai dealer some time ago, but this had no impact on the handling of the vehicle.
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Lorian, further to the symptom:
You can't relax when you're driving. You have to hold the steering wheel with two hands all the time as you can't trust the response of the steering. It's not a white knuckle ride, but it's very unpleasant, requiring full concentration. If anything, it's possibly worse when braking, even at slow speeds - 25-30mph. It happens at constant speed and whilst accelerating. Also when you activate the cruise control, it is very slow to respond, coming on later than when you press it, thus if you're driving at 30, the car may drop to 28mph before the cruise works. In addition the cruise control on undulating terrain responds slowly, resulting in the vehicle accelerating beyond the set value or decreasing below it. i.e. if set at 50mph, it may increase to 55mph when going down hill. Don't know if this is related, but this hasn't been observed in the Golf with cruise control we also drive.
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Forgetting the CC which might simply be working correctly even if not how you would like, the steering issue seems extraodinary.
If it's as you describe surely the dealer can feel it? Or are they failing to see a problem?
Unless the rack is loose (has happened) or something wierd happening with the power steering what about the possibility that the ESP (stability) has a fault and is applying the brakes randomly? Does turning it off help?
I had my rack replaced (no idea what could have been wrong with a new part) for a "rattle" on uneven surfaces and I must say I did immediately think it "cured" a problem I had accepted without reporting whereby the steering just slightly wandered. It required that I maintained forward vision and attention because then, and now, no real tactile feedback is given. I guess that's a given with electric assistance at this point in its development.
Good luck with getting to the bottom of it.
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Hi Pip, thanks for the suggestion. Tried turning off the ESP today and it seemed to improve the handling, although we're not sure whether this is simply because we were willing it to be better. Apparently it "appeared" more responsive.
Incidentally, I wouldn't be surprised if the ESP had something to do with it in some way as the ESP light NEVER came on in all the time I had the car, in the snow, ice, even when turning the car on the ESP light has never shown until the brake light switch was replaced.
Since the Hyundai dealer replaced the steering rack and brake light switch recently, on the first test drive the ESP light activated at least five times in the first few hundred metres, when the road was dry and I was going at constant speed / no massive amount of acceleration (being followed by someone who also had a car with ESP that never activated when following me). Concerned, on questioning it with the technician at the dealership he expressed concern, went out with me for a test drive and wanted to investigate further on possible electrical faults but the front of house "boss" told me the vehicle was fine and that they would do nothing further to the vehicle, basically telling me to get on my way - that it was ready for collection after the warranty repairs were considered concluded.
Since then the dealer has refused to have me as a Customer. Pretty unbelievable diabolical service, given the shortage of "reliable" dealerships in my area who are capable of appropriately rectifying faults.
Anyhow. There may be some relationship between the ESP, steering rack and associate handling, although I'm not technical enough to know what... Anyone any ideas?...
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I'm not sure if I misunderstand you but the ESP light should only ever come on if it is activated by the controlling computer to correct a perceived slide. An over simplification but unless you have lost steering control it won't activate. If it comes on during normal driving on firm surfaces, then that's a fault. I've never noticed mine come on... ever.
There is also an separate ESP OFF light. This will only light when ESP is switched off at the switch by your knee.
Both of these lights will momentarily display when the ignition is first turned on.
I imagine the ESP controller will use the steering position sensor (SPS) as one of its inputs. When my SPS was out of adjustment I saw the ESP light intermittantly come on and I also saw the EPS (Electronic Power Steering) light come on as well. Don't confuse ESP and EPS.
It was a long shot to suspect that the ESP could be affecting the steering and from your response I think I might have talked you into thinking turning it off had an effect. But then.... if the SPS was fooling the ESP into thinking the steering wheel was turned away from the centre when it was not then I guess it's possible that it was activating a brake (causing the steering to pull to one side) to correct a problem that didn't exist. All supposition, I have no direct knowledge of how it works. :confused:
I'd just leave the ESP off, you won't need it (most cars on the road don't have it anyway), and see whether anything has really changed with it off over a longer period. If you really think it has then try it again turned on. My guess is that it will make no difference either way.
Back to your observation that the ESP light came on while driving straight; this is not right and I'd make sure the service manager knows about it.
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I was going to post something similar to Pip's comment above.
I suspect the Steering Position Sensor is either faulty or has a bad connection to the ECU or ground. This would result in activation of individual rear brakes as the ESP cuts in when it shouldn't, which seems to match the symptoms as described. In the repairs you've mentioned so far could it have been left disconnected?
With two replacements of steering racks already, were these racks found to actually be faulty once they were out of the car? It is possible they were misdiagnosed, and replaced as an attempt to resolve the issue, or just something to try...
Many sympathies for your situation. And please keep us informed of your progress or lack thereof.
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Hi all.
Thanks for the advice. Given that I've had problems with the ESP since I got the vehicle, with it turning off "ESP OFF" randomly and never actually seeing the ESP light turn on when I turned the ignition on - until they replaced the faulty brake light switch in November just gone after everyone's help in me diagnosing to Hyundai there was a fault (after two years of complaining there was a problem), it does tend to suggest there is an electrical issue. Only since the faulty brake light switch has been replaced has the ESP light seemed to work, and subsequently behaved oddly (coming on five times on the first test drive as I mentioned earlier). Will ask the assessor to investigate further.
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The advice all makes good sense, but the forced crash and need to grasp the wheel is extreme. The power steering is electric, with input from steering shaft, vehicle speed, etc. I wonde if this clever stuff is actually steering wrong, due to a fault in the system.?? If so. it is extremely dangerous. Totally different from an alignment problem, which you can normally cope with. I agree with the comment that it should not be driven. I'd ask you to describe your car, but I should be safe in Australia. Good luck getting it sorted
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The advice all makes good sense, but the forced crash and need to grasp the wheel is extreme. The power steering is electric, with input from steering shaft, vehicle speed, etc. I wonde if this clever stuff is actually steering wrong, due to a fault in the system.?? If so. it is extremely dangerous. Totally different from an alignment problem, which you can normally cope with. I agree with the comment that it should not be driven. I'd ask you to describe your car, but I should be safe in Australia. Good luck getting it sorted
Hi nitram and welcome.
The last post in this thread was back in February of this year and we've heard no more so I suspect Rof has moved on.
Which is a shame because it would have been nice to know what the root cause of all this was.
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The last post in this thread was back in February of this year and we've heard no more so I suspect Rof has moved on.
Which is a shame because it would have been nice to know what the root cause of all this was.
I'll PM Rof and see if I can get an update :goodjob: