i30 Owners Club
GOT PROBLEMS OR ISSUES? => DIESEL => Topic started by: Asterix on May 08, 2012, 19:43:07
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Well, then it happend to me.
The engine control light started to flash, and according to the owners manual it's because of problems with the DPF.
Went to the dealer to have the fault code read, it said DPF efficiency not good enough.
Recently the regeneration have started more often, and I think it most times have not had time enough to complete the cycle. I very rarely get to the motorways, so most driving is at 80-90 km/h.
I had the fault deleted, and went home with 2 additives, 1 to put in the tank for cleaning the fuel system, and 1 to inject directly in the engine air intake to clean the EGR etc. Then off for a testdrive - 35 km -with 3300-3500 revs (80-90 km/h in 3. gear) to make sure the DPF could regenerate completely.
But, when testdrive was ended, the engine control light started to glow, not flash, so now there's another error.
So now I'm curious about what's wrong. Had booked the car for tomorrow at the dealer anyway, as the A/C will not cool any longer, and I have a little issue when starting the engine when cold. The engine only runs on 3 cylinders for a few seconds, then ok again. Think it is a dead glow plug, have asked them to check the glow plugs.
Looking forward to hear from the dealer tomorrow..
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Sorry to hear of your problems asterix (those DPFs are a right pain in the a$$) :fum:
Hope it gets sorted ok :confused:
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Those DPF's really are a pain in certain part of the body, like Dazz said. From what I've seen, Hyundai isn't one of the problematical brands, when it comes to that, but obviously it's not immune to the problems either.
As you know and as you've written, your DPF doesn't regenerate, because your way of driving does not meet the conditions needed for that. What they usually advise -> take a longer trip every week (higher rev's to burn it) or take it to the dealers so they could do the process manually. Your DPF is now probably in that state, where it is just too dirty to get easily cleaned (additives or manual regeneration - where they activate it via ECU) and will most probably need a "physical" cleaning - that means removing it and carefully washing it, if it's not already too damaged. But in your case, I would insist on replacing the filter, under warranty of course.
And as for taking that 35km trip with higher rev's. Are you sure the renereration was done?
PS: Which oil do they put in? Some services put in wrong oil (5W-40 or something like that instead of 5W-30C3), which can cause earlier DPF failure.
I used to do some short trips with my i30 and noticed that when doing that, the DPF regenerates more often (like in your case) - almost every 200-300 km. And I also stopped it few times, before it finished. Now I mainly use the other car (no DPF) for short trips or do a 100-200 km trip with the i30, every 2 weeks.
But the main problem are the DPF faults, that usually occur after few years (2-3) of driving like that.. The costs of DPF filter replacement are around 1,500 EUR. Good thing we have a 5 year warranty, but still... I know few people that had problems with DPF's (not Hyundai) and in the end, they took it out, "ECU-bypassed" it and drive without it.
I know diesels aren't ideal for short trips, but with this filter, they made them really problematical..
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Those DPF's really are a pain in certain part of the body
That would be arse, accim ;) :whistler: :lol:
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In the UK, removal of the DPF can increase emission levels enough for the car to fail its annual government inspection and thus be refused a road licence.
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In the UK, removal of the DPF can increase emission levels enough for the car to fail its annual government inspection and thus be refused a road licence.
That is true and the same here. But some cars even make it through the inspection without DPF. The ones that don't, find some other way (not legal) to do it (of course, I'm talking about the situation over here). And we have annual inspections when the car reaches 8 years. First 4 years there are no inspections, then between the age of 4-8 years, the car is inspected every second year and after 8 - annually.
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In the UK, removal of the DPF can increase emission levels enough for the car to fail its annual government inspection and thus be refused a road licence.
That is true and the same here. But some cars even make it through the inspection without DPF. The ones that don't, find some other way (not legal) to do it (of course, I'm talking about the situation over here). And we have annual inspections when the car reaches 8 years. First 4 years there are no inspections, then between the age of 4-8 years, the car is inspected every second year and after 8 - annually.
In the UK we have annual inspections from the third year onwards
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Could you whip the DPF out and just refit it at 2 years and 11 months :whistler:
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:disapp: I binned my previous car for the petrol i30 EXACTLY because of DPF, EGR, glow plug & Turbo problems with new generation diesels.
Good call I say!
They seem fine on long journey profile use, but somewhat problematic on any other journey type.
Really sorry for you diesel guys though... these essentiually simple engines have had to become very complex to meet emissions regulations & performance requirements.
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But in your case, I would insist on replacing the filter, under warranty of course.
Not an option, as the 5 year warranty was not offered until 2009 or 2010, so my car did only have 3 year warranty, and it's 4,5 years old now.
And as for taking that 35km trip with higher rev's. Are you sure the renereration was done?
No, I'm not, I will do a longer trip today. The dealer have made the manual regeneration today, but the engine control light started to flash again when I had only done 1 km.
PS: Which oil do they put in? Some services put in wrong oil (5W-40 or something like that instead of 5W-30C3), which can cause earlier DPF failure.
I use Castrol Edge 5W30 C3 so that should be ok. As the car is not under warranty I change the oil myself.
But the main problem are the DPF faults, that usually occur after few years (2-3) of driving like that.. The costs of DPF filter replacement are around 1,500 EUR. Good thing we have a 5 year warranty, but still... I know few people that had problems with DPF's (not Hyundai) and in the end, they took it out, "ECU-bypassed" it and drive without it.
Can't do that by-pass thing or removal as we also have the MOT test every second year, first time when 4 years old.
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Could you whip the DPF out and just refit it at 2 years and 11 months :whistler:
Great idea. Only problem is, it would require a new DPF or a new car :rofl: :rofl:
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So now I'm curious about what's wrong. Had booked the car for tomorrow at the dealer anyway, as the A/C will not cool any longer, and I have a little issue when starting the engine when cold. The engine only runs on 3 cylinders for a few seconds, then ok again. Think it is a dead glow plug, have asked them to check the glow plugs.
Looking forward to hear from the dealer tomorrow..
Well, A/C works again, but 2 glow plugs were dead. They did not have them on stock, so will be back in next week for replacement.
Hmm, it's turning out to be an expensive week :blubber:
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So, now I have taken it for a little testdrive. 180 km, of which 130 km was motorway with speeds at 130-140 km/t, 2 times I had the opportunity to reach 185 km/t :whistler:
If the engine can get rid of the exhaust when doing 185 km/h the DPF can't be blocked totally. :razz:
After about 100 km the LPH started to show higher consumption, so I then knew the regeneration was started. After 50 km more on the motorway again doing 130-140 the LPH dropped again, regeneration completed. :mrgreen:
Now I'm off to the dealer again tomorrow to have that flashing engine control light stop flashing, forever I hope. :confused:
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Glad you are keeping your chin up Asterix :goodjob:
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So, now I have taken it for a little testdrive. 180 km, of which 130 km was motorway with speeds at 130-140 km/t, 2 times I had the opportunity to reach 185 km/t :whistler:
If the engine can get rid of the exhaust when doing 185 km/h the DPF can't be blocked totally. :razz:
After about 100 km the LPH started to show higher consumption, so I then knew the regeneration was started. After 50 km more on the motorway again doing 130-140 the LPH dropped again, regeneration completed. :mrgreen:
Now I'm off to the dealer again tomorrow to have that flashing engine control light stop flashing, forever I hope. :confused:
Unfortunately, if the put DPF's in Australian diesels, that will be the end for me, back to petrol. Fancty being forced to do 185kmh just to clean the DPF, that is ridiculous :fum: :mad:
Fortunately, Gillard is not listening to Mr Ho's submission on this matter, in fact, she's not listening to anyone. :wacko:
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The only mention in my 2012 i30 Owners Manual about the DPF is as follows (OCR Scan of manual)
Diesel Particulate Filter
(if equipped)
The Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) system removes the soot emitted from the vehicle.
Unlike a disposable air filter, the DPF system automatically burns (oxidizes) and removes the accumulated soot according to the driving conditions. In other words, the active burning by engine control system and high exhaust gas temperature caused by normal/high driving condition burns and removes the accumulated soot.
However, if the vehicle continues to be driven at low speed for a long time, the accumulated soot may not be automatically removed because of low exhaust gas temperature. In this particular case, the amount of soot is out of detection limit, the soot oxidation process by engine control system may not happen and the malfunction indicator light may blink.
When the malfunction indicator light blinks, it may stop blinking by driving the vehicle at more than 60km/h (37 mph) or at more than second gear with 1500 - 2000 engine rpm for a certain time (for about 25 minutes).
If the malfunction indicator light continues to blink in spite of the procedure, we recommend that the system be checked by a HYUNDAI authorised repairer.
If you continue to drive with the malfunction indicator light blinking for a long time, the DPF system can be damaged and fuel consumption can worsen.
CAUTION - Diesel Fuel
(if equipped with DPF)
It is recommended to use the regulated automotive diesel fuel for diesel vehicle equipped with the DPF system.
If you use diesel fuel including high sulfur (more than 50 ppm sulfur) and unspecified additives, it can cause the DPF system to be dam¬aged and white smoke can be emitted.
As I have posted on the forum before - on my previous i30 - in 13000 miles of driving I never saw any evidence that the DPF regenerated (and my car quite definitely had a DPF fitted). Nothing ever flashed in the instruments and there were no other signs, such as increased fuel consumption or heat from the underside of the car after a journey.
However - with the new car after a fast but short journey home one day - when I stopped the car you could smell and almost feel excessive heat coming from under the engine. No light had flickered in the instruments so I cannot be sure it regenerated - but I suspect it did. And this was after doing only about 300 miles from new.
I spoke at length to the service manager at my dealers about it and he said that they had not experienced DPF problems with any of the DPF equipped i30's they had sold since they were introduced in 2010. They had not been required to do a single forced regeneration on any of the cars - even the driving instructor's cars which do a lot of slow driving.
You may recall that I recently agonised over whether to buy the diesel or petrol version when I swapped my car last month - because of my worries about the DPF and dual mass flywheel - but the dealer managed to convince me that both had been totally trouble free. The other factor was that the 1.4 petrol model was not spritely enough for me and required too much gear changing due to lack of torque compared with the diesel.
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So, now I have taken it for a little testdrive. 180 km, of which 130 km was motorway with speeds at 130-140 km/t, 2 times I had the opportunity to reach 185 km/t :whistler:
If the engine can get rid of the exhaust when doing 185 km/h the DPF can't be blocked totally. :razz:
After about 100 km the LPH started to show higher consumption, so I then knew the regeneration was started. After 50 km more on the motorway again doing 130-140 the LPH dropped again, regeneration completed. :mrgreen:
Now I'm off to the dealer again tomorrow to have that flashing engine control light stop flashing, forever I hope. :confused:
Unfortunately, if the put DPF's in Australian diesels, that will be the end for me, back to petrol. Fancty being forced to do 185kmh just to clean the DPF, that is ridiculous :fum: :mad:
Fortunately, Gillard is not listening to Mr Ho's submission on this matter, in fact, she's not listening to anyone. :wacko:
Hmm, I'm sure it's not required from Hyundai to do 185 km/h. That was just me taking advantage of being alone on the motorway.
The speedlimit on that motorway is 130 km/h
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Talked to the dealer today on the phone. He said, like stated in Alan's quote from his Owners Manual, that the flashing control light should end flashing when the DPF is OK again.
As I really want the DPF to work properly again, I asked the wife and kids if we should take a trip to Germany for some shopping tonight. As we have high taxes and 25% VAT in DK and Germany has much lower tax and VAT many Danes go to Germany to shop.
So we did. 300 km, of which 200 is motorway. Control light still flashing. What surprises me a bit, is that on this trip the fuel consumption was 4,8 LPH with 93 km/h average speed, 4 people in the car, and on the way home 150 kg extra in the boot.
How can the engine run so economical, if the DPF is partly blocked.. :question:
The error in the ECU was something like : efficiency of DPF too low. I can only understand that, as the DPF can't burn of all the soot.. :question:
I'm starting to think there could be an error on the sensor in the DPF.. :question:
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These things can get really annoying can't they :undecided:
On a brighter note us Aussies can only dream of going for a drive to a different country to go shopping :whistler:
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Could you try clearing the code... maybe borrow an OBD plugin from a mate?
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Could you try clearing the code... maybe borrow an OBD plugin from a mate?
I think that would be my next step. Maybe after work today..
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Please keep us posted. I'm really interested in the outcome of this issue. Hope you'll solve it soon and "painless".
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Update as requested. :mrgreen:
Went to the dealer yesterday to have the fault code cleared. The technician told me he could meassure same pressure before and after DPF, which in my opinion is what it should be. He didn't have the data handy, and this is the first car they have had this kind if problem with.
Well, I drove home, 1,5 km. Still no light flashing :D Got 4 new glow plugs with me home, as they had found 2 not working.
Today I started with changing the glow plugs (NOTE: allways do that on a cold engine, they are placed right next to turbo) :exclaim:
Went to the recycle station with the trailer, a 25 km trip no light flashing :D
Have had 2 more very short trips today, still no flashing light. :D :D
1. I'm not sure the dealer is right, when they say the flashing light should disappear when problem is solved, then I think it should have been out.
2. If the light continue to be not flashing, than I'm not so worried about the DPF anymore, as I now know the problem can be solved if it should appear again.
Now I'm in a much better mood than a few days ago.. :happydance:
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Sounds promising (did they make you pay for the glow plugs?)
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Sounds promising (did they make you pay for the glow plugs?)
I'm sure they will, as my car is out of warranty. As earlier stated, in DK 5 years warranty was not provided before 2009, and mine is 2008.
Think the car have had the glow plugs changed before, as there was NGK plugs mounted, not HY parts.
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That's a bit of a bummer (Technical term) :disapp:
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Well, the engine control light started to flash again yesterday.
Car still drives normal, so no worries yet. Have a colleague who have a VAG com, I will try to use that to delete the errormessage in the ECU. That should be possible when it is OBDII, right.. :question:
I have just renewed our terrace, so I have had a lot of short trips with a heavy trailer, as lots of old paving had to be moved to the recycling station.
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I just re-read this thread and saw a reference to the fact that your car is 4.5 years old. It therefore surprises me that it has a DPF fitted. In the UK - to the best of my knowledge - DPF's were not fitted until late 2010 when the Euro 4 (or was it Euro 5) engine was introduced.
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Mine is 2008 (Korean built) and has a DPF
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I just re-read this thread and saw a reference to the fact that your car is 4.5 years old. It therefore surprises me that it has a DPF fitted. In the UK - to the best of my knowledge - DPF's were not fitted until late 2010 when the Euro 4 (or was it Euro 5) engine was introduced.
If I remember correct, all i30 CRDi 116 HP was fitted with DPF from day one, in DK. I'm not sure if the CRDi 90 HP had it from the start.
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Mine is 2008 (Korean built) and has a DPF
Thanks Steve - I stand corrected. However - I know of someone with a March 2010 Czech built i30 that does not have a DPF. When my previous car arrived in September 2010 the dealer was not sure whether it would have a DPF - I was hoping it didn't - but it did.
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...the dealer was not sure whether it would have a DPF - I was hoping it didn't - but it did.
If I might just stray a little left of topic here, one of the three dealerships I've used for a service actually asked me if I had a DPF fitted, when I queried the semi/synth engine oil they'd filled her with. I had to pop the lid and point out the device to them.
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I believe The u series engines got cpf built into the exhaust downpipe rather than dpf which is big and obvious near the Turbo. surly no 2008 diesel i30 would have a dpf requiring regeneration.
BOTH low smoke oil.
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...the dealer was not sure whether it would have a DPF - I was hoping it didn't - but it did.
If I might just stray a little left of topic here, one of the three dealerships I've used for a service actually asked me if I had a DPF fitted, when I queried the semi/synth engine oil they'd filled her with. I had to pop the lid and point out the device to them.
What a confidence booster. :Shocked:
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My '09 in Australia doesn't have one and the new model Crdi that I looked at yesterday at the dealership didn't have one either.
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My '09 in Australia doesn't have one and the new model Crdi that I looked at yesterday at the dealership didn't have one either.
A DPF is necessary in Europe to meet the strict emission regulations applied here. Perhaps Australia does not have the same standards and a DPF is not necessary.
Do you Aussies suffer from irritating coughs by the way......... :whistler:
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My '09 in Australia doesn't have one and the new model Crdi that I looked at yesterday at the dealership didn't have one either.
A DPF is necessary in Europe to meet the strict emission regulations applied here. Perhaps Australia does not have the same standards and a DPF is not necessary.
Do you Aussies suffer from irritating coughs by the way......... :whistler:
Not personally, although there has apparently been an increase in the number of kangaroos and koalas with bronchial infections ;)
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My '09 in Australia doesn't have one and the new model Crdi that I looked at yesterday at the dealership didn't have one either.
A DPF is necessary in Europe to meet the strict emission regulations applied here. Perhaps Australia does not have the same standards and a DPF is not necessary.
Do you Aussies suffer from irritating coughs by the way......... :whistler:
No, we have wide open spaces & intelligent population numbers. This is why all the convicts were laughing as they sailed past lands end. :mrgreen:
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No, we have wide open spaces & intelligent population numbers. This is why all the convicts were laughing as they sailed past lands end. :mrgreen:
.. until the Irish turned them round and said "it's the other way --->" :P
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Hello to everyone,
I found this interesting Website regarding DPF, hope it is useful.
http://www.aa-academy.com/Training/Learning%20Zone/Diesel%20Particulate%20Filter%20(DPF).asp (http://www.aa-academy.com/Training/Learning%20Zone/Diesel%20Particulate%20Filter%20(DPF).asp)
We have a 2010 1.6 CRDi with DPF and I often worry if I am taking the car for long enough journey's to burn off the soot.
Surely, if the i30 did not have a DPF installed the road tax (in UK) would not be £30?
Kind regards to you all
Rogmur :wink:
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:goodjob:
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Thank you Rogmur .. very interesting
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:whsaid:
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Just an update on this thread.
2 weeks ago the dealer cleaned the DPF with something they call a "waterpipe". They put in some foam to dissolve the soot in the DPF, leave it for some hours and then flush it out. That didn't solve the problem.
The dealer have now replaced 2 temp/pressure sensors, 1 located in the turbo, and 1 in the DPF.
I have now done more than 100 km since this repair, and the engine control light haven't flashed yet. Before the repair the engine control light would have started flashing only a few kilometers after resetting the fault code.
The sensors cost around 300 EUR a piece, + all the hours they've spend locating the error and replacing the sensors. I'm not looking forward to receive the bill.. :blubber: :blubber:
I really hope this is the end of this :scared:
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It's quite common VAG cars for sensors to fail, however, these usually cause more regens.
I'm not sure how the Hyundai ones work, but the VAG cars do pre-planned regenerations anyway between 400-700 miles, regardless of soot content.
The only thing I would say, DPF's aren't usually covered under warranty. What a lot of the VAG group guys do is drive with the DPF until it gives them problems, and then have it deleted and given a remap to get rid of errors. That costs around £500 where as a new DPF costs easily over £1,000.
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It actually did regenerate more often than usual.
At last the engine control light started to flash, and I thought the DPF wasn't able to regenerate, but given the faulty sensors, it wasn't the DPF that was faulty, but I suspect the ECU to start the regenerating again and again due to wrong signals from the sensors.
Now 150 kilometers without flashing light.. :happydance:
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. What a lot of the VAG group guys do is drive with the DPF until it gives them problems, and then have it deleted and given a remap to get rid of errors. That costs around £500 where as a new DPF costs easily over £1,000.
What do you mean with deleted.. :question: Do they remove the DPF.. :question: If so, what do they do when it's time for the MOT.. :question:
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Have now done more than 1500 km since the repair, including 200 km with the caravan, it's all fine. :happydance:
(But I had to pay 1100 EUR / 900 GBP / 1360 AUD) :blubber: :blubber:
If any of you guys ever have the engine controllight flashing, and a fast trip on the motorway doesn't solve the problem, make sure to have the sensors checked.
According to my local dealer they have never had this problem before, and neither had the Danish Hyundai service dept.
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:faint: :fum:
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That is a lot of money Asterix! (I guess I'm not telling you anything) :(
You will need to keep the car another few year now to get your money back... :Pout: