i30 Owners Club
THE GARAGE (SERVICE, MAINTENANCE & REPAIR) => GENERAL => Topic started by: mrfog on August 19, 2023, 12:30:38
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Any one out there give me the heads up on what the upper and lower front camber bolts be torqued to on a 2013 model ? Ive searched the web and read 77ft lbs but somehow that seems a bit light . Thanks in advance . Vic
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What size bolts are they? Example: 12mm [thread dia, not hex head spanner size] x 60mm [long], or say, 14mm x 70mm. There would be a fairly big difference in torque values between those two sizes.
"I searched the web and read 77ft lbs but somehow that seems a bit light". Hmm, well "77ft-lbs" (105Nm) sounds a bit high to me if you are running 12mm bolts but sounds about right for 14mm bolts...I'm relying on a failing memory of what we used to tighten down camber bolts on other brand cars.
A suggestion: If the forum cannot help you, ring Hyundai Australia - technical department - or even ring Whiteline Australia Tel 13000 882 355 (40 years in the suspension game, they supplied 90% of my suspension accessory bits during 2006~2013).
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Poweralign recommendation for their bolt kit :link: Hyundai Camber Bolts - PowerFlex 12mm & 14mm | N Garage (https://www.ngarage.com.au/product-page/hyundai-i20n-front-camber-bolts-powerflex-12mm)
I'd expect it to be the same for genuine as they're standard size steel bolts
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Poweralign recommendation for their bolt kit :link: Hyundai Camber Bolts - PowerFlex 12mm & 14mm | N Garage (https://www.ngarage.com.au/product-page/hyundai-i20n-front-camber-bolts-powerflex-12mm)
I'd expect it to be the same for genuine as they're standard size steel bolts
Nice find, CraigB, especially as that link covers both size bolts I mentioned, 12mm and 14 mm. The Powerflex info says:
12mm Bolts - Torque Settings: 55lb-ft / 75Nm
14mm Bolts - Torque Settings: 70lb-ft/ 120 Nm. NOTE: 70lb-ft is not 120Nm, it is 95Nm!
That's not a good mistake to have on their web site because anyone setting their torque wrench to 120Nm will seriously overtighten the camber bolt & nut, maybe to the point of stripping them. Then it's out with the grinder or hacksaw etc :mad:.
Also, it's unlikely, imo, that the Metric 120Nm listed for 14mm bolts is correct as that would convert to Imperial 88lb-ft(!). But. I could be wrong?! :undecided:
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Thanks for checking/correcting those torque settings Terry :goodjob: cant even trust an Australian based website these days :head_butt:
I've notified N Garage about the mistake, hopefully they correct it :undecided:
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Thanks for checking/correcting those torque settings Terry :goodjob: cant even trust an Australian based website these days :head_butt:
I've notified N Garage about the mistake, hopefully they correct it :undecided:
Good thinking, Craig, I hope they acknowledge your effort or else explain if I'm wrong. Their "70 b-ft" spec for 14mm bolts looked ok at a brief glance, and it was only luck that I dwelt on their conversion to "120Nm" and I remembered we used to torque down our wheel nuts to 90~92Nm(!). Wheel nuts torqued 30% lower than camber bolts didn't quite compute.
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Thanks for checking/correcting those torque settings Terry :goodjob: cant even trust an Australian based website these days :head_butt:
I've notified N Garage about the mistake, hopefully they correct it :undecided:
Good thinking, Craig, I hope they acknowledge your effort or else explain if I'm wrong. Their "70 b-ft" spec for 14mm bolts looked ok at a brief glance, and it was only luck that I dwelt on their conversion to "120Nm" and I remembered we used to torque down our wheel nuts to 90~92Nm(!). Wheel nuts torqued 30% lower than camber bolts didn't quite compute.
I just had a quick check on their website and they've already corrected the mistake :happydance:
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i just had a quick check on their website and they've already corrected the mistake :happydance:
Well, that's to their credit. We have done something useful for the greater i30 community. :shakehands1:
I hope mrfog tells us what size his camber bolts are so we can then all knowningly advise the correct torque spec from the Powerflex web site you found. :lol:
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In his first post, mrfog was worried 77lb-ft sounded a bit light for camber bolts and I said: "... sounds about right for 14mm bolts..."
Then CraigB found Powerflex specs for Hyundai camber bolts (I30 Sedan N/nline) on the N Garage forum which said: 70lb-ft for 14mm bolts, so I was off by about 10%.
Anyhoo, over a coffee I did some Googling and found a whole lot of nothing for mrfrog's 2013 model but I did see this at Hyundai Accessary Store.com for other models... :link: Hyundai Camber Bolts (https://www.hyundaiaccessorystore.com/Hyundai_Camber_Kit.html)
Torque bolts as follow
· 00118-00000 (12mm) @ 55 ft/lbs (74Nm)
· 00118-00001 (14mm) @ 77 ft/lbs (105Nm)
While the models listed are not for mrfrog's vehicle, maybe it's enough to revisit 77lb-ft? :) Or, maybe just halve the difference and get on with life? :winker: Okay, I'm done...promise. It would be nice to hear from mrfrog on what he decided on, but...?
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I'm confused, does a 2013 I30 even have front camber adjustment? Cannot find any torque setting/listing in the UK Haynes manual.
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I'm confused, does a 2013 I30 even have front camber adjustment? Cannot find any torque setting/listing in the UK Haynes manual.
Good point. I don't know. Our now-silent mrfrog didn't say if his bolts were adjustable or not, he just said "front camber bolts". But, I must admit that when I saw the camber bolts with cammed shoulders on the Hyundai Accessory Store.com site I subconsciously thought i30 camber bolts were adjustable, as standard. Guess that's the trap you can fall into when having worked on cars with adjustable camber bolts.
I think the torque figures posted above would still be good for either type of camber bolts.
(https://i.ibb.co/5jcF0DM/Camber-bolts-cam-shoulder.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Terry T .Damn , youre right . Im assuming the I30 does have adjustable camber bolts . The car in question is not with me at the moment , but when I get a better view of the front suspension I'll soon find out and report back . On this particular I30 the front left wheel has obvious negative camber which will have to be addressed .
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You will more than likely have to fit a front camber bolt set as they're not adjustable as stock, my 2013 estate has rear camber and toe adjustment but only toe adjustment on the front.
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Terry T .Damn , youre right . Im assuming the I30 does have adjustable camber bolts . The car in question is not with me at the moment , but when I get a better view of the front suspension I'll soon find out and report back . On this particular I30 the front left wheel has obvious negative camber which will have to be addressed .
Welcome back. :) I guess the surest way to know is when you remove a top camber bolt and see if it has (what I call) a 'cammed shoulder', or not. There are some cars fitted OE with straight [camber] bolts that you can buy an adjustable camber bolt kit for that are designed to work on struts without elongated holes. But, I suspect not for your model and I'm thinking my 2018 PD SR is the same, i.e. not adjustable with camber bolts.
Wheel alignment specs for my car are shown below. I think your car would have same/similar front camber specs. Basically, it's -0.5 degree with +/- 0.5 degree tolerance so, minimum 0.0 to -1.0 degree. I vaguely recall a rule of thumb for street cars was [max] -1.5 to -2.0 degree camber. I think I was running -3.5 degree front camber on my street/track WRX STi.
You said: On this particular I30 the front left wheel has obvious negative camber which will have to be addressed. Wow, if it is that obvious (and only on one side) I'd guess you are looking for some damage to the front suspension e.g. control arm/bushes, broken shock/springs (or, maybe just spitballing, a very bad ball joint or wheel bearing).
Please let us know the final outcome.
(https://i.ibb.co/XJrY6Fv/Camber-my-SR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tCTLnYW)
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From what I've read the camber bolt kit fits to the bottom strut mount in the top hole, the strut mount bolt torques are a bit higher so it gets a bit confusing.
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(https://i.ibb.co/Kbjk25Y/Screenshot-20230825-081941-Samsung-Internet.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k5gf4Gp)
(https://i.ibb.co/hyGNW1T/Screenshot-20230825-080757-Samsung-Internet.jpg) (https://ibb.co/t406sP1)
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@PGN I30. Good find, it explains a bit. You and CraigB should be our designated Google Sniffers. :)
Presumably the 'green' bolts are the OE non-adjustable straight bolts (would have to be, with those big torque settings). The six bolt sizes listed below by Powerflex seem to suggest that almost any car with that two-bolt strut setup can use adjustable camber bolt kits.
(https://i.ibb.co/g38P71r/Strut-torque.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Their torque settings for the 14mm and 15mm sizes are incorrect, as shown below. (Same mistake as the Powerflex Australia web site had).
(https://i.ibb.co/ZGBSK6W/Torque-specs-Powerflex.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GnW9kvc)
The diagram below hopefully helps explain how the camber bolt kit "sizes" are marketed and why the torque setting for a particular size adjustable bolt kit is different to the torque setting for the same size OE non-adjustable [camber] bolt. A size "14mm" is different for both types of bolts and has different torque settings to match.
(https://i.ibb.co/5vh6gvP/Adj-bolt.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Note: I no longer have any adjustable camber bolts to compare so I just guessed that the threaded portion of the bolt would be, say 12mm. Whatever it is, it would be smaller than the lobe part of the bolt (which would be the same size dia as the OE bolt it is replacing) and it would have a torque setting suitable for a "12mm" bolt rather than a higher torque setting for a "14mm" bolt. Clear as mud? :)
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To all of you who have given me a plethora of info to go by - thanks a million , much appreciated . This weekend I will have my nieces I30 with the said problem so I will be giving updates , photographs and feed back . You fellas are a fantastic help . cheers Vic
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Okay , so I got the car home and in the mean time had purchased off ebay a pair of Whiteline KCA414 camber bolts . These bolts have a 12mm shaft with a 14mmcamber lobe
Looking from the front of the suspension with the tyre removed these are the nut and bolts that come into play . Top one will be removed , lower one loosened .
Side on view has the Whiteline camber bolt inserted with the tab facing towards the wheel for adjusting positive camber . These bolts will allow 1.5mm camber adjustment .
After installation the lower bolt was torqued to 77 ft lbs whilst the top camber bolt was torqued to 97ft lbs as recommended by Whiteline . Now the problem I have is that camber is still out by approximately 1 degree . The lower control are looks fine ( well I think it is although I dont have another to compare it too ) - that is bushings dont appear to be cracking and ball joint looks fine . So Im looking for recommendations as to what I should do next to get the camber corrected . Cheers Vic
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Okay , so I got the car home and in the mean time had purchased off ebay a pair of Whiteline KCA414 camber bolts . These bolts have a 12mm shaft with a 14mmcamber lobe
Looking from the front of the suspension with the tyre removed these are the nut and bolts that come into play . Top one will be removed , lower one loosened .
Side on view has the Whiteline camber bolt inserted with the tab facing towards the wheel for adjusting positive camber . These bolts will allow 1.5mm camber adjustment .
After installation the lower bolt was torqued to 77 ft lbs whilst the top camber bolt was torqued to 97ft lbs as recommended by Whiteline . Now the problem I have is that camber is still out by approximately 1 degree . The lower control are looks fine ( well I think it is although I dont have another to compare it too ) - that is bushings dont appear to be cracking and ball joint looks fine . So Im looking for recommendations as to what I should do next to get the camber corrected . Cheers Vic
Vic, thanks for that feedback about the Whiteline stuff. So, now we all know. Just to clear up some things in my mind I've got a few ( :)) questions...
You said: "Side on view has the Whiteline camber bolt inserted with the tab facing towards the wheel for adjusting positive camber"? I couldn't get the small photos to enlarge enough to see what's what but why are you talking about positive camber when you want zero or negative camber (say max -1degree for the street)?
And, "Now the problem I have is that camber is still out by approximately 1 degree"? Still out from what? 1degree positive or negative? What camber setting are you going for and how are you measuring camber?
What size diameter (mm) are the OE top bolts you removed and replaced with the Whiteline adjustable camber bolts? Are they both the same size, 14mm, or a little different? Did the Whiteline bolts slide into the top strut/hub hole easily or was there much hammering?
When I was playing with cars way too many years ago now, I accumulated several different types of gauges to measure camber and caster. See below for two types. (But my now foggy brain would need me to sit down with their manuals and a car and a coffee to get back to speed. Same thing with fitting those camber bolts and correctly orientating their washer and tab for negative camber, I've forgotten now). Are you using similar gauges and where are you measuring off e.g. the brake rotor?
(https://i.ibb.co/grrfJBY/Tool-04.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/TkcvpQD/Tool-092.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Hi Terry , I'll answer your questions over a number of replies so I wont go over the unload limit . This is the wheel prior to adjusting the camber . The photo doesnt do justice to the problem but the negative camber is obvious if you were looking at it
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Now the OE strut bolts are 14mm in diameter . Whiteline camber adjustment bolts are - 12mm shaft ,14mm with camber lobe and when the lobe is spun it is 15.5 mm . The top photo shows how the adjustable camber bolt is inserted into the strut . note the small lug on the innerface of the washer is inline with the lobe - giving 14mm .
The second photo shows the lobe rotated with the small lug remaining in its original position - giving you 15.5 mm
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Here is the instructional diagram that come with the Whiteline bolts . I however inserted the bolt from right to left . Now note the larger washer tab is facing towards the hub when inserted into the strut ( this diagram is orientated as a top view of the suspension ). This allows you to diminish the negative camber when you rotate the lobe .
The adjustable camber bolt fitted very easily into the strut
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This is the camber gauge I used . I had it placed on the rotor when determining the camber angle and adjusting
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I thought I d resend the photo of the adjustable camber bolt inserted and hopefully this time it is larger . You'll need a 17mm socket for this but to retrieve the OE nut and bolt you will need a 17mm for the bolt and a 19mm for the nut
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Finally , I still have -1.25 degrees of negative camber , even with the the adjustment .What should I look at now ?.
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This is the camber gauge I used . I had it placed on the rotor when determining the camber angle and adjusting
I have one of those gauges, well good enough for the job.
What camber setting are you trying for.
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-5 degrees negative camber
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...This is the wheel prior to adjusting the camber . The photo doesnt do justice to the problem but the negative camber is obvious if you were looking at it
Looking at that photo (and any parallax error aside), my first thought was that's big for a street car and that something is bent or broken in the suspension/steerng area.
Unfortunately I'm now tied up with family (plus birthday celebrations, 79-y-o) so may take a bit to get back to you. Anyone else on forum, please don't be shy about contributing. :)
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That looks quite badly cambered, is the shock absorber straight and intact or the wishbone bent, to me it looks to have been hit by something in an accident, I may be wrong though.
The wing appears to be slightly indented also.
(https://i.ibb.co/K6gdFj7/neg-camber-wheel-2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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About three years ago it was swiped , which resulted in cosmetic damage mainly to the fender . Thats when my niece owned it . However it has had three learner drivers - my nephews and niece - also practice on it so who knows what it underwent . Having said that though looking at the suspension when the wheel was off nothing seemed out of place or damaged
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About three years ago it was swiped , which resulted in cosmetic damage mainly to the fender . Thats when my niece owned it . However it has had three learner drivers - my nephews and niece - also practice on it so who knows what it underwent . Having said that though looking at the suspension when the wheel was off nothing seemed out of place or damaged
Vic (mrfog), you originally just asked what are the torque figures for the front upper and lower camber bolts…and then collectively we all added to the story (or, confusion 😊).
With the benefit of your subsequent posts, I’m guessing that after you saw the excessive negative front camber on the left wheel of your niece’s car your first thought was to check the tightness of the camber bolts; loosen them and see what sort of corrective adjustment you could get with some pushing and pulling; retighten the bolts to spec and recheck camber. (That’s what I would have done anyway). But as the car has OE non-adjustable camber and is set at the factory with -0.5 degrees with +/- 0.5 degrees tolerance, there can be no adjustment to speak of and certainly not to the extent you now need.
So, revisiting basics. If the car cannot achieve the correct camber with the OE bolt it surely means that the problem is something somewhere else, bent, damaged or broken. Anyhoo, you buy a Whiteline adjustable camber bolt kit which advertises camber adjustment of up to +/- 1.5 degrees i.e. up to +1.5 degrees positive and up to -1.5 degrees negative camber. (But, imo, the kit doesn't really solve your problem, it can only be a bandaid solution).
Now, I'm guessing that you have orientated the Whiteline adj camber bolt to provide maximum + positive degree camber (up to +1.5 degrees) so it would push out (>>) the front strut/steering knuckle which in turn pushes out (>>) the top of the tyre...in an effort to reduce the present excessive negative camber to some extent...but it turns out it wasn't enough. Yes? 😊. I have attached below a diagram of a typical MacPherson strut suspension purely to help explain things to anyone unfamiliar with the setup. Note, it is not a Hyundai one.
Your last post said: About three years ago it was swiped, which resulted in cosmetic damage mainly to the fender [was that to the left front fender? TT]. Thats when my niece owned it. However it has had three learner drivers - my nephews and niece - also practice on it so who knows what it underwent. Having said that though looking at the suspension when the wheel was off nothing seemed out of place or damaged.
Given the driving history of the car (especially three learner drivers) and that it can be so hard sometimes to identify parts that are say, bent out of alignment by just a few degrees, especially when not having a new part to compare and/or measure off. PGN I30 and I have suggested a few possibilities. Damaged or bent lower control arm, bushes, strut, steering knuckle, broken shocks, springs come to mind.
Mate, I’d be taking the car to a wheel alignment specialist in the first instance for his opinion...and telling your niece that Uncle Vic can’t work miracles for beer money. 😊
(https://i.ibb.co/GxNYWSL/Mac-01.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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-5 degrees negative camber
Or, maybe -0.5? :)
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Yes Terry , I think you have sound advice there - take it to an alignment specialist and see if they can pin point the problem . That I will do .
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Yes Terry , I think you have sound advice there - take it to an alignment specialist and see if they can pin point the problem . That I will do .
(https://i.ibb.co/NjGPjHH/Mr-Burns-excellent.png) (https://imgbb.com/) :)
Please post the results when the problem is sorted. I'd be interested to know.
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Yes Terry , I think you have sound advice there - take it to an alignment specialist and see if they can pin point the problem . That I will do .
(https://i.ibb.co/NjGPjHH/Mr-Burns-excellent.png) (https://imgbb.com/) :)
Please post the results when the problem is sorted. I'd be interested to know.
@ mrfrog. Presumably the car is now well and truly sorted, alignment-wise. Can you advise what the problem was.