i30 Owners Club
GOT PROBLEMS OR ISSUES? => DIESEL => Topic started by: Lorian on October 03, 2014, 12:52:20
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I suspect this might be a controversial subject.
But my 1.6CRDi is booked in for a dual-mass flywheel replacement.
Controversial in that I see there has been some discussion in the past that appears to have concluded it doesn't have a dual-mass flywheel - I'll check in the workshop manual later.
Anyway the fault exhibits as slight increase in vibration at idle, and a very noticeable vibration and associated noise at 1800-2000rpm in 3rd,4th (and a little in 5th and 6th) when under load.
All hail the warranty, as the dealer says £2K to replace if I was paying, and the car has only a few months warranty left.
* note given the thoughts later in the thread its actually single mass I have modified the thread title *
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I suspect this might be a controversial subject.
But my 1.6CRDi is booked in for a dual-mass flywheel replacement.
Controversial in that I see there has been some discussion in the past that appears to have concluded it doesn't have a dual-mass flywheel - I'll check in the workshop manual later.
Anyway the fault exhibits as slight increase in vibration at idle, and a very noticeable vibration and associated noise at 1800-2000rpm in 2nd,3rd,4th (and a little in 5th and 6th) when under load.
All hail the warranty, as the dealer says £2K to replace if I was paying, and the car has only a few months warranty left.
You lucky son of a gun :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob:
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I would be very interested in the outcome of this, as you said yourself, we have always been told the i30 came without the DMF
Good to hear the warranty covers the repair. :goodjob2:
Pictures of the flywheel would be nice if you get the chance.
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I was told by Hyundai head office that the 1.6 and 1.4 U2 engines were designed so that a dual mass flywheel is not necessary.
Also, Honest John is under the impression that the i30 and KIA Ceed do not have DMF's
This is about to get interesting.
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The Part Number is 23200-2A700
Here is a pic. Not so easy to find info online
:link: KIA CEE´D flywheel - D4FB-F - 232002A700 - build 2010 - 57197 miles | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KIA-CEE-D-flywheel-D4FB-F-232002A700-build-2010-57197-miles-/111359169692?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item19ed86149c)
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Anyway the fault exhibits as slight increase in vibration at idle, and a very noticeable vibration and associated noise at 1800-2000rpm in 2nd,3rd,4th (and a little in 5th and 6th) when under load.
You've got me worried, because my car has this exact issue. I wouldn't call it a vibration as yet, but a loud low pitched hum that occurs usually under load (eg going up an incline) from about 1700rpm to 1900 rpm in mostly 2nd gear that i've noticed.
I always thought it was a peculiarity of the diesel engine as it encounters load just before the turbo starts working and hence hadn't thought it had anything to do with clutch or flywheel.
I've got no idea what the symptoms of DMF issues are so if anyone in the know can elaborate whether this should be mentioned to the dealer.
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Always worth mentioning to the dealer to get it on record, just in case.
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I'd read a little on the net before i took it in, i was half expecting an engine mount issue and half some clutch related or turbo at the outside. Quite suprised at the dmf. Ive checked a few pics and given the £1000 price tag for the part new im convinced it does have a dmf.
They symptoms have become gradually more noticeable over the last few months. Usually a little worse at the end of a long run. There is a real resonant qualiuty to the noise,, its not like diesel chatter. The car used to idle dead smooth and now it lightly vibrates. Goes in when thge part arrives in a couple of weeks time. Ill try to photo te old part etc.
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So has the dealer confirmed the car does have a DMF?
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So has the dealer confirmed the car does have a DMF?
If it's anything like my local dealer they may not know.
I have just come off the phone from asking them again - and they say they have never had to change a 1.6 flywheel so they are not sure. They are however certain that the 2.0 litre engine in earlier models DID have a DMF.
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Yes i was aware the 2l had one but was told 1.6 did not.
So has lorian really got a 2l with a 1.6 badge?
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nope, its definitely a 1.6
I guess we'll see when I take it in.
When I've looked through cee'd forums for the same issue I've seen a couple reported - and they seem to get fixed by replacing the clutch and the geabox seals. Clutch action seems fine though.
It is of course quite possible service manager has it wrong, I just hope the tech doesn't. I can see it now, they open it up, find a SMF and need to replace clutch that they don't have. then Lorian get's to drive a 1.2L IX20 for a week......
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nope, its definitely a 1.6
I guess we'll see when I take it in.
When I've looked through cee'd forums for the same issue I've seen a couple reported - and they seem to get fixed by replacing the clutch and the geabox seals. Clutch action seems fine though.
It is of course quite possible service manager has it wrong, I just hope the tech doesn't. I can see it now, they open it up, find a SMF and need to replace clutch that they don't have. then Lorian get's to drive a 1.2L IX20 for a week......
You should worry - my step daughter has a 1.2L i20 which I have driven. It is a fine car and surprisingly quite spritely.
You may get to like it so much that you trade the cripple in.......... :winker:
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Surely, the flywheel is in a parts catalog, why so much doubt, it is either yes or no. :Dunno:
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What we need is a Hyundai technician to se this thread and look at the Hyundai service manual and parts list...... :whistler:
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I've been down this track before. There is no way to tell from catalogue or w/s manual. Got to pull it to know.
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I've been down this track before. There is no way to tell from catalogue or w/s manual. Got to pull it to know.
Thanks cruiserfied. Interesting that there's no documented way to check this. Cars are so bloody complex these days. :disapp: I remember when the only complexity came from which brake hardware supplier had provided the hydraulics for my Datsun. :-[
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Surely, the flywheel is in a parts catalog, why so much doubt, it is either yes or no. :Dunno:
Part number is listed above and ive looked at it in the catalogue and it has no mention of single or dual mass. Either way im sure they will be replacing it.
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If there isn't a pic available in the prts book, that's a bit poor IMO. A flywheel is nornally a big solid disk of metal with the only attachment being the ring gear.
A dual mass flywheel is a complicated multi component device such as the example below.
:link: 3D animation of dual mass flywheel - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnaXB8q3uzQ)
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In the parts book its a pretty poor explosion diagram that shows no detail.
I know the part number is right though, and here is the only picture I've been able to find of one with the right part number being sold on ebay:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTMzWDgwMA==/z/gUYAAOxycgVTe3pE/$_12.JPG)
Here is the parts diagram. For Hyundai's benefit I should say this is a link, as it's copyright material, and it is not hosted on the i30ownerclub.com forum. we are looking at the part under 23200B:
(http://hyundai.epcdata.ru/images/cutups_hyundai/HEURPJC1/20231B11.png)
This also says its the same part:
(http://hyundai.auto.pl/image.php?main=../kia.auto.pl/images/232002A700.jpg&watermark=watermark.png)
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All look single mass to me.
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All look single mass to me.
:whsaid:
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Post from March 2012
:link: Dual Mass Flywheel Problems (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=13773.0)
If that isn't a big enough worry for us diesel owners with cars that have dual mass flywheels - which includes the i30
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So I hope they have properly diagnosed it is actually the flywheel anyway. I still suspect it's the gearbox seals like a few others have seen. At least they'll see that when they crack it open. I'll mention the dual mass comment when I take it in, it could well be the mechanic has said the flywheel needs replacing and the front desk guy has added the "dual mass" bit erroneously.
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Thanks for keeping us in the loop Lorian .. interesting times!
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Hello,
New member here but have been viewing this site for a while, the missus has an i30 1.6 crdi premium with this exact issue. Only had the car since august, great car but currently in "negotiations " with the dealer as to the cause. My first thought was dmf but dealer is adamant it doesn't have one.
Strong vibration from 1500 - 1900rpm which would appear to be when the turbo spools up, ours is 6sp and I believe it's the U2 engine as it has garrett turbo and is a 60 plate car. I would love to hear the outcome from this.
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my engine will be pretty much identical to yours - 6spd U2
Flywheel replaced, not had much chance to test yet, but my initial opinion is, its somewhat quieter, but not completely eliminated. No sure where that gets us.
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my engine will be pretty much identical to yours - 6spd U2
Flywheel replaced, not had much chance to test yet, but my initial opinion is, its somewhat quieter, but not completely eliminated. No sure where that gets us.
So - was it a DMF or not - we are all agog waiting........ :whistler:
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In my job I have the opportunity to drive a lot of diesel cars at speed, and to be honest the only other engine I've noted this characteristic as being present is another smaller ( sub 1700cc) capacity diesel from vauxhall.
When this vibration happens on our i30 it's as though the boost from the turbo should be more aggressive but its bogging down. I know the Boost on the 1.3 cdti vauxhall engine feels more aggressive than the i30 but the i30 is certainly quicker jumping from one to the other.
Surely someone somewhere must have had this issue and resolved it, I'm looking forward to the result of the flywheel change.
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I never did find out, I was late collecting.
I've noticed its quite stiff to get into first now, so I'll look at the linkages later.
I've noticed the vibration at idle has definitely reduced.
The noise is still there at 1800rpm, but less, and the vibration is less, but definitely not completely gone away.
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Does that mean we will never know, or can you ask to see the part. :eek:
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In light of Lorians update I'm tempted to think its a turbo issue, because not having driven another I can't say for sure, but the boost from the turbo is very tame and seems stunted by this mystery vibration. Ours has already been in for various bits to try to eliminate it but still the noise persists.
If the flywheel has been replaced and it's still happening, there's definitely another cause. Mine is going in next week to see what can be done. Il keep updating with progress.
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In light of Lorians update I'm tempted to think its a turbo issue, because not having driven another I can't say for sure, but the boost from the turbo is very tame and seems stunted by this mystery vibration. Ours has already been in for various bits to try to eliminate it but still the noise persists.
If the flywheel has been replaced and it's still happening, there's definitely another cause. Mine is going in next week to see what can be done. Il keep updating with progress.
Does yours have a vibration or is it just the noise? There is the ECU upgrade for a rattle/knocking noise around 1800rpm but if you can feel a vibration it won't be that.
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Does yours have a vibration or is it just the noise? There is the ECU upgrade for a rattle/knocking noise around 1800rpm but if you can feel a vibration it won't be that.
It's more of a noise than a physical vibration, the noise is audible from outside as well. very strong from 3rd through to 6th gear under hard acceleration. That is why hyundai have found it hard to replicate in workshop. They acknowledge it's there and state they will sort it but don't know what it is.
I might ask about ecu updates and see what they say.
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Does yours have a vibration or is it just the noise? There is the ECU upgrade for a rattle/knocking noise around 1800rpm but if you can feel a vibration it won't be that.
It's more of a noise than a physical vibration, the noise is audible from outside as well. very strong from 3rd through to 6th gear under hard acceleration. That is why hyundai have found it hard to replicate in workshop. They acknowledge it's there and state they will sort it but don't know what it is.
I might ask about ecu updates and see what they say.
I have the U2 engine and think I have the same symptom you describe. I'd call it a loud humming between about 1700 —1900 rpm and a minor vibration. I'd also been thinking it was related to the turbo spooling up with the engine under load. Contrary to my previous post I now think it is more evident in 3rd gear onwards. I am starting to wonder if it's just a normal phenomenon.
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As per above,
Sounds exactly like ours, small physical vibration but loud aural vibration under load 15 - 1900rpm from 3rd up to 6th. Nothing in 1st gear and almost nothing in 2nd gear. Damn frustrating!
Otherwise the engine is great.
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Found this on another forum! Possibly clutch issue, Im still adamant its turbo related though!
"I have seen this in Hyundai CRDi engines also, although the "vibration" in this case is just really minimal. The whole car does not shake because of this. And the Hyundai service engineer claims that is a design flaw with the clutch which gets triggered when the turbo comes on???"
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Does that mean we will never know, or can you ask to see the part. :eek:
I guess where never gonna know Phil and I have been sat here, on the edge of my seat, busting a gut to know the answer to this riddle <sigh>
Life's full of disappointments ain't it
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With further driving today, vibration seems to have NOT been fixed by the new flywheel, and now I have a stiff/notch gear change to go with it - it used to be really slick.
Guess I need to call the dealer again on Monday, but given I only have a few weeks left on the warranty I don't like the way this is going.
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I have the U2 engine and think I have the same symptom you describe. I'd call it a loud humming between about 1700 —1900 rpm and a minor vibration. I'd also been thinking it was related to the turbo spooling up with the engine under load. Contrary to my previous post I now think it is more evident in 3rd gear onwards. I am starting to wonder if it's just a normal phenomenon.
My car didn't use to do it though - its only just started in the last few months. Generally my hearing hasn't improved over that time.
Also I note that when the noise is occurring if I even VERY lightly touch the clutch it instantly stops until its released.
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With further driving today, vibration seems to have NOT been fixed by the new flywheel, and now I have a stiff/notch gear change to go with it - it used to be really slick.
Guess I need to call the dealer again on Monday, but given I only have a few weeks left on the warranty I don't like the way this is going.
You have made your claim before end of warranty. It's not your problem if Hyundai can't fix it before warranty expire.
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It would appear that it is a manual thing. You simply don't get this with the auto, however, the auto doesn't have this type of clutch, or flywheel, so it doesn't help much, except to rule out the motor itself.
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Does yours have a vibration or is it just the noise? There is the ECU upgrade for a rattle/knocking noise around 1800rpm but if you can feel a vibration it won't be that.
It's more of a noise than a physical vibration, the noise is audible from outside as well. very strong from 3rd through to 6th gear under hard acceleration. That is why hyundai have found it hard to replicate in workshop. They acknowledge it's there and state they will sort it but don't know what it is.
I might ask about ecu updates and see what they say.
The upgrade is more for a diesel knock around 1800-2200rpm so probably not it.
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I have the U2 engine and think I have the same symptom you describe. I'd call it a loud humming between about 1700 —1900 rpm and a minor vibration. I'd also been thinking it was related to the turbo spooling up with the engine under load. Contrary to my previous post I now think it is more evident in 3rd gear onwards. I am starting to wonder if it's just a normal phenomenon.
My car didn't use to do it though - its only just started in the last few months. Generally my hearing hasn't improved over that time.
Also I note that when the noise is occurring if I even VERY lightly touch the clutch it instantly stops until its released.
Has the clutch plate and cover ever been replaced? It could be the springs in the clutch plate, or the fingers of the clutch cover. Flywheel is already ruled out. Might even be thrust bearing vibrating.
Notchy gears could be cables routed wrong. Hopefully they put oil back in box.
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The forum really appreciates your contributions cruiserfied :Agoodpost:
You are like another pair of eyes ( and qualified ,too.). :goodjob2: :goodjob:
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Even if this is a flywheel or clutch issue our car is approaching 50k miles, which for a diesel in particular is nothing. The car has a full main dealer service history and since I came to recognise this issue we haven't realy done a great deal of miles in it so it can't be said its been neglected.
I'm tempted to try pressing the clutch down during the "activation" of the noise as Lorian suggested but I'm almost certain it will stop it once the clutch is pressed. This still does not eliminate the turbo from the issue as it only makes the noise under load anyway.
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Does yours have a vibration or is it just the noise? There is the ECU upgrade for a rattle/knocking noise around 1800rpm but if you can feel a vibration it won't be that.
The vibration on mine is definitely secondary to the noise. It's smack on 1800rpm it starts.
Could you tell me the TSB number please?
Since the flywheel was done the vibration at idle seems back t normal. Its all so subjective though.
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Does yours have a vibration or is it just the noise? There is the ECU upgrade for a rattle/knocking noise around 1800rpm but if you can feel a vibration it won't be that.
The vibration on mine is definitely secondary to the noise.
Could you tell me the TSB number please?
Sorry Lorian but I can't. You'll have to get your dealer to search it.
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Yes, sorry I shouldn't have even asked, I understand.
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Yes, sorry I shouldn't have even asked, I understand.
I have no problem with you asking. That's how questions get answered :) Thanks for understanding.
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Is it possible to confirm that is for the 1.6CRDi though, not the 2.0?
Thanks.
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Yeah for 1.6CRDi we don't have 2.0CRDi in Australia.
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Thanks.
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If this was a clutch/flywheel issue, is there a reason why the vibration or noise would only happen at certain rpm ie 1700-2000.
If it's turbo-related it might make sense in that this is the rpm where the turbo spools up.
Another perhaps unrelated symptom I have noticed, when the car is idling and I just rest my foot on the clutch, I can feel it pulsating. No issue when I push further or let it out completely. Does this mean anything?
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If this was a clutch/flywheel issue, is there a reason why the vibration or noise would only happen at certain rpm ie 1700-2000.
If it's turbo-related it might make sense in that this is the rpm where the turbo spools up.
Another perhaps unrelated symptom I have noticed, when the car is idling and I just rest my foot on the clutch, I can feel it pulsating. No issue when I push further or let it out completely. Does this mean anything?
The clutch/flywheel is only spinning as fast as the engine so in principal it is the same as you describe for the turbo.
I can only imagine that with foot only resting on pedal that the thrust bearing is moving with the minor insignificant differences in clutch cover finger height/tension. When you push down harder it equalises.
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Early days but it appears this 1800rpm+ vibration/rattle has been fixed by a 3 part clutch kit. Warranty :mrgreen:
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:fingers:
What were the 3 parts :question:
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Clutch plate, cover and release bearing, its all ordered as one kit.
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Hi Lorian,
I am happy for you that this problem has now (hopefully) been fixed.
Has the workshop stated why the old clutch developed this problem after such a relatively small number of miles/kilometres?
Does this mean that the dual-mass flywheel was also a culprit, or was it replaced under warranty needlessly?
Paolo5
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I thought the clutch wasn't normally covered under warranty :confused:
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I thought the clutch wasn't normally covered under warranty :confused:
All hale the warranty - which expires ssoon.