i30 Owners Club
GOT PROBLEMS OR ISSUES? => DIESEL => Topic started by: Phil №❶ on October 07, 2011, 06:53:28
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Can anyone tell me what pressures exist in the fuel line at the entry to the fuel filter. I want to add a glass filter, before the factory filter, so I can see contaminants & purge easily. The factory one will remain due to warranty issues and the water sensor, which I don't want to compromise at all.
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I'm reasonably certain that there is no pressure at all. I believe the diesel fuel pump resides directly on top of the filter and sucks from the fuel tank at the back of the car. This is why if you run out of fuel you have to re-prime the pump manually. If the pump was in the tank then it would self prime. The inlet to the fuel filter is also above the tank height. Also proven by the fact that when I took the inlet pipe off the filter no fuel poured out.. Remember too that if you get a proper sight glass to view contamination it will be quite robust.
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as far as i know a diesel engine has a mechanical fuel pump and not an electric one. [but i may be wrong about the i30] the fuel pump is on the engine block and not in the fuel tank. :idea:
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I'm reasonably certain that there is no pressure at all. I believe the diesel fuel pump resides directly on top of the filter and sucks from the fuel tank at the back of the car. This is why if you run out of fuel you have to re-prime the pump manually. If the pump was in the tank then it would self prime. The inlet to the fuel filter is also above the tank height. Also proven by the fact that when I took the inlet pipe off the filter no fuel poured out.. Remember too that if you get a proper sight glass to view contamination it will be quite robust.
you just beat my post Steve. :winker: [i own 2 petrol i30's]
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Well just to confuse further I believe there is an electrical pump mounted on the fuel filter which feeds low pressure fuel to the mechanical high pressure fuel pump driven directly by the engine. It is a recirculating system whereby any fuel that the high pressure mechanical pump doesn't need is returned via a bypass back to the tank. The electric pump is recirculating a loop of fuel round and round returning to the tank any excess. This is how any diesel or petrol fuel system has worked for years.
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So when we run out of juice, the electric pump will deliver fuel to the filter from the tank & we hand pump from there to the HP pump, right!
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I don't think there is a pump in the tank. The recirculating electric pump on top of the filter sucks the diesel from the tank (once it's been primed) and delivers it to the HP pump, the excess returning to the tank via the return line.
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:cool:
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hi 847563, i've seen people mount the second glass filter on diesel's b4, but were all old style diesels not common rail. & all on trucks not small car's. i think you might have a problem finding a good mounting point. also to purge the diesel to remove any water you see in the glass filter, you have to drain diesel fuel out ( very messy also it damages bitumen ). it is not that often you have trouble with water in fuel. i have not had any problems with water in diesel personally & have driven millions on killometers over the years. but i know people who have had the missfortune to fill up with contaminated diesel, but only one or two i know who damaged there motors. & the oil company covered the costs. ( not saying oil companys always cover those costs, just the few i know had that covered by the oil co's ) the others i know that never had damage & got contaminated fuel, just kept having the fuel waning come on to indicate water in filter, they just had to keep replacing the fuel filter.
i don't think i would worry, as the way i look at it is the glass filter is just one more thing that could give you trouble & they are very messy & a problem on a small car to mount. but if you go through with it , it would be interesting to see pictures.
Another thing i thought i might mention is, never attemp to drive your car through a flood, a guy i worked with had a two tonne Toyota diesel truck, that had the exhast pipe exit low like our i30's not up like a normal truck. he drove through a flood to get home, once as the detour was 80k, water went into the motor via exhast & Hydraliced the motor. just thought i would mention this.
good luck what ever you do.
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lakes
Thanks kindly for your detailed reply, I will take the info under advisement. :goodjob:
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I too have thought about the logistics of fitting a glass bowl filter to the fuel line of my diesel and went to my local auto parts store and looked on ebay but never took it any further than that.
Let me know how you fare with this pursuit, 847563.
Cheers,
Paolo
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paolo5
Thanks for your interest.
The 1st problem I have is it is actually my wife's car, so convincing her to do mods will be difficult. We should consider the response from "lakes" as to just how necessary this mod actually is. I wish there was a clear option for the existing filter.
Why I want to do it.
The filter & it's fitting cost is far too high in my opinion, unless you do it yourself. Fitting a glass filter separator should cancel any requirement to change the factory filter, saving money.
Through normal use, depending on your climate (humid /dry) there will inevitably be a build up of water in the tank, this could take years, months or weeks but it will be there. 1 bad fill from contaminated fuel adds to the problem and it can be a lot in 1 fill. A glass gauge will show water easily and will continue to show until all the water is purged. The factory option would be to see the water indicator come on, replace the filter, (a lot of work / money) drive the car & have the light come on again, repeat, repeat repeat, until finally all the water is gone, no thanks I'm not doing that!
Even the busiest garage tanks will condense water inside them when they are nearly empty from the air inside the tank, so to me sucking up water is like playing Russian roulette.
Water in the breeds things apparently, and we don't want that.
I have a post asking about the breather pipe location for our tanks (no reply yet), I intend to silica gel the air into the tank making it dry & I think eliminate tank condensation from that area as well.
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The 2.0 CRDi has an electric priming pump in the fuel tank. This will supply around 3bar of pressure at the filter housing.
The 1.6CRDi U & U2 has no electric pump. The fuel is pulled from the tank via a geared pump that is incorporated in the High pressure pump.
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funky
:goodjob:
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Can anyone tell me what pressures exist in the fuel line at the entry to the fuel filter. I want to add a glass filter, before the factory filter, so I can see contaminants & purge easily. The factory one will remain due to warranty issues and the water sensor, which I don't want to compromise at all.
i have a 05 hilux ute diesel that has a glass bowl fuel filter before the factory one after i had the car a year it die took it to toyota they said i had water in the filter and it was going to cost me $7500 to fix no warranty now my i30 is dead and in the shop it is the fuel pump
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Hi Lindlake .. Nice to see you back (first post for 3 months) but sorry to hear about your car...
Just the fuel pump? Hopefully no other damage? (sounds like you've been hit with the unlucky stick) :undecided:
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lindlake
Like the others, sorry to hear about your troubles. If you had a glass filter how come water got into your engine, didn't you see it in the glass :question: :blubber:
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i put it on my hilux after the water got in to late my i30 went to the shop today i hope it is only the fuel pump it was getting harder to start and blowing black smoke now it will not start and there is no smoke when it turns over
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See, this is my whole point, I30's need glass filter housings. How did the water get in, bad fuel or long term condensate. :question:
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in my hilux i put in a long range tank 140 lt that is made of steel that condensate. from the hot diesel from the fuel pump in the i30 it is plastic i looked in side the fuel tank very clean and no water before i sent the i 30 to the shop ang change the fuel filter
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just a update on my i30 it looks like a cracked fuel filter housing and two glow plugs dead just waiting on parts :happydance:
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Could have been worse! :scared:
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look like my i30 needs a new fuel pump now it is still blowing black smoke the service man said have not been offer a loan car yes my i30 will not be back for to next fri if i am lucky new fuel pump and rail new fuel filter housing
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i am still waiting for my i30 we might get it by fri at less now i have a loan car for free
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Good, hope it comes back ok. :)
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still waiting for my i30 new fuel pump new fuel filter housing and still not running ok blowing smoke :question:
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So what's going on :question:
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ok got phone call today looks like it is number 3 injector is jamming open causing the smoke and hard to start so i have a new fuel pump for free :happydance:
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:goodjob:
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:Shocked: got my i30 back today it is the same as before it went in to get repaired blowing heaps off black smoke :-[ they now saying that it is the injector that are blocked which i have to pay for up to $900 each :fum: :fum:
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That's ridiculous, if they fitted a fuel pump under warranty, then this complaint that you have, has still NOT been repaired, so whatever it takes, it's a warranty job, no argument, IMO. :disapp:
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:Shocked: got my i30 back today it is the same as before it went in to get repaired blowing heaps off black smoke :-[ they now saying that it is the injector that are blocked which i have to pay for up to $900 each :fum: :fum:
Not good enough :fum: .. What can we do to help folks :question: :question:
My first suggestion would be to ask for the dealer principal at the servicing dealer and he is not helpful (or indeed available) Contact Hyundai Australia directly.. (keep a record of all your correspondence)
Also refer them to this thread, by all means ..
Which dealer are you having this trouble with ..? someone might know of a better dealer nearby :cool:
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it is hyundai aus that will not pay for the injectors he said that i must have got dirty fuel so it my fault :fum: :blubber:
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it is hyundai aus that will not pay for the injectors he said that i must have got dirty fuel so it my fault :fum: :blubber:
Is the dealer telling you that or Hyundai direct??
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If we look at the history of your complaint we've had cracked filter housing, fuel pump & rail replaced, jammed #3 injector and now dirty fuel. This is absolute rubbish. Clearly they haven't got a clue what is wrong.
How do you get dirty fuel, that's what the fuel filter is for! Is there a way to have your fuel tested. If it is clean, then Hyundai should be made aware and have their arses kicked for making unfounded assumptions.
My feeling is that they figure they have spent enough on this vehicle. :disapp:
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Hi Guys, I have had enough of dealing with hyundai service center after my cars faults.
They replaced the fuel filter assembly to fix an air leak, replaced fuel rail and tubes and injector pump to fix no rev over 3000RPM issue ( suspected low fuel pressure ) This condition has existed since 13K and until last fortnight had not been remedied. Now my car has 18K on the clock. The last thing i was told was it was not a warranty issue now as they found algae and all sorts of gunk in my tank. I allowed them to rectify this and my car runs as if it is new again. my invoice report does not specify a tank clean but states i was charged for a new fuel filter,on car injector service and throttle body clean. It also recommends that i use a fuel treatment for the next few months to prevent any more problems. this had cost me $716.
now i am very paranoid about what was actually wrong with my car and what they actually did to fix it.
So i doubt that i will ever fully trust any service place , hyundai or other, after what i have had to go through recently.
So it is no surprise to me that they have told you it is your fault for getting a contaminated tank of diesel because it seems an easy way for them to put the blame on something else rather than claim responsibility for a warranty fix that will give them no end of trouble before they can fix it in a timely manner. They will inspect the fuel system entirely and solve your problem and you will be none the wiser. Plus they will extract money out of you for your added pleasure!!
hope you can get your car fixed soon mate.
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Which brings us full circle to the 1st post, these cars should have a glass bowl filter. :whistler:
angus
I agree with your post, I hope your car is running ok now. :neutral:
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Yes Thanks 847563, my car is running as good as the day i bought it brand new and i hope it continues to do so. Knock on wood :undecided:
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i called up hyundai aus today same answer i have to pay to get the injectors fixed the car will not start again like before it just turn over and over no smoke just will not start so i will have to pull out the injector on sat and take in on mon to get check out i will have to pay for that
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i called up hyundai aus today same answer i have to pay to get the injectors fixed the car will not start again like before it just turn over and over no smoke just will not start so i will have to pull out the injector on sat and take in on mon to get check out i will have to pay for that
A very sorry state of affairs .. :disapp:
I wonder weather any members who are near you have a good mechanic contact who can take a look .. If you have to pay maybe an independent can fix it a lot cheaper :idea:
Edit: I assume you still live in Lang Lang Victoria (so good they named it twice) :winker:
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i had to do the same with my hilux 4 years ago toyota said that i had water in my fuel $8000 to fix i said stuff that and got the car tow home i pull the fuel pump off and found a part in side the fuel pump jammed up i free it up car started up no worry i saved my self $8000 i brough a new part later for $ 300 so yes i can fix the car my self but i do not want to lose my warranty that has two years left
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Very sad that is the result. :blubber:
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i had to do the same with my hilux 4 years ago toyota said that i had water in my fuel $8000 to fix i said stuff that and got the car tow home i pull the fuel pump off and found a part in side the fuel pump jammed up i free it up car started up no worry i saved my self $8000 i brough a new part later for $ 300 so yes i can fix the car my self but i do not want to lose my warranty that has two years left
It is certainly a tricky one.. It is not a common occurence for our members so you have been really unlucky.. Sounds like your local garages have "issues" with their fuel :disapp:
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i took the injectors into a shop to day they are stuffed looks like its going to cost up to $500 each to fix :eek: no warranty because thay say dirty fuel ????? i get my fuel from work for free we use 1500 lt of fuel a day so it new and we change fuel filters on my dredge everey 1000 hours because the fuel is so clean
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i took the injectors into a shop to day they are stuffed looks like its going to cost up to $500 each to fix :eek: no warranty because thay say dirty fuel ????? i get my fuel from work for free we use 1500 lt of fuel a day so it new and we change fuel filters on my dredge everey 1000 hours because the fuel is so clean
That makes it even trickier in some ways :confused:
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How is dirty fuel going to bugger up all of your injectors - they are just electro - mechanical valves.. You have a fuel filter between the tank and the injectors designed to remove solids? They are playing games with you.\
PS - Be very wary about what you post on any site regarding your source of fuel.
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ok i just got the phone with a fuel injector shop they said the injectors are faulty not from bad fuel or water so hyundai will have to pay for new ones
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AND SO THEY SHOULD ! :wtf:
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yes they should but it has cost me $300 so far for test they still say it water in the fuel trying to get out of paying for the injectors :twisted:
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yes they should but it has cost me $300 so far for test they still say it water in the fuel trying to get out of paying for the injectors :twisted:
If they agree and replace them FOC under warranty you should have a good case to claim back the cost of the tests and possibly some compensation for your time and trouble (small claims court maybe? - if they don't at least agree to cover the cost of the tests...)
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:whsaid:
If you don't ask, you don't get. You have a strong case for "adequate compensation" to cover your costs
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just got phone call from hyundai they are going to replace under warranty :happydance:
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Great news :goodjob:
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just got phone call from hyundai they are going to replace under warranty :happydance:
So those strings "we" pulled worked then :winker: :happydance:
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If only :winker:
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ok last update i hope we pick up the i30 on sat morn all fixed so nick said at hyundai no smoke and starts first time i hope no car for over 5 weeks :wtf: :censored:
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Can you get a report of what was wrong and how they fixed it. I'd be interested to know whether the fuel tank was drained & flushed. :neutral:
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no they never look at the tank but i check it myself before it went to hyundis it is easy you just lift up the middle back seat undo some screws there is the tank 8 bolts to take out the sender unit two hose and you can see the hole inside of the tank :goodjob2: hyundai replace all the injectors that what was wrong not the fuel pump
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But initially, they insisted you had bad fuel, so how do they explain that BS statement. If you had accepted that "explanation" you would have been substantially out of pocket. They should be sued for that IMO. :disapp:
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looks like i will have to take the i30 back to hyunda every time we stop it dies it will not idle i have turn off the key then it will start and idle but next time we stop it dies again
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looks like i will have to take the i30 back to hyunda every time we stop it dies it will not idle i have turn off the key then it will start and idle but next time we stop it dies again
More problem :confused: Sorry M8 :undecided: I know it's not my fault but most of us have had such a good run it just doesn't seem fair... :disapp:
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all fixed again more dirty fuel in the tank and fuel filter i am now going to put all the fuel from work thru a filter before it goes into the tank that should fix it :happydance:
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What about your other work vehicles. :question:
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i have my own 05 hilux that has two fuel filters and we have 3 old toyotas all diesel never had to replace the filters ?? and i work on a dredge that goes thr 1800 lts of fuel a day and we only change the fuel filters every 1000 hrs so the fuel is clean so i do not now where i got the dirty fuel from
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That's a bit strange. :undecided:
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yes it is just did 1200 km in the weekend no worrys :goodjob:
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Have you had the contaminant analyzed, that might help to narrow down what could possibly have caused your problem.? Was it dirt, fibres of cloth, fibreglass etc. Otherwise I'd start to suspect some sort of 3'rd party mischief.
is your vehicle secure at all times, you may need a locking cap. :neutral:
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it look like jelly in the fuel tank i got fuel after 10 min off the fuel truck coming then put in in my hilux spare fuel tank witch holds 200 lts then i put it in my i30 that is where i got the dirty fuel so from now on it going to go thru a fuel filter before it goes into the i30 and my boss knows that i take fuel he has been paying for it for ten years that why i have two diesel cars i wish they could make a diesel bike :lol:
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> i wish they could make a diesel bike :lol:
Triumph Speed Triple Turbo Diesel Variomatic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RELltnWVtJg#)
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Not bad Rusty :eek: (wonder if it is as torquey as an i30) :happydance:
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love it :happydance:
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well the i30 die on wed had to get it towed home dirty fuel again clean out the fuel tank again changed the fuel filter again could not get the car to start so i brough some start you bastard in a CAN and away she went no smoke full power ????? my hilux 05 uses the same fuel and no worries for 5 years and if i take it to hyundai they will not fix because of the dirty fuel
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Still using that free fuel from your work ? (won't be for much longer) :winker:
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hi back from over seas our i30 die again from dirty fuel it needs new injectors again $2600 it has to be the fuel filter is letting the crap into the injectors my hilux uses the same fuel for 5 years no worreys but i do have two fuel filters on my hilux it is very hard to put two filters on the i30 so i will be selling the i30 when i get the new injectors so be careful where you get your fuel from for the i30
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:Shocked: :sweating: It is strange how others aren't having this problem m8 :undecided:
So the injectors can't be reconditioned or cleaned? :disapp:
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why to you call me m8 when i am lindlake like i said dirty fuel is why and there is lots of car and 4x4 getting new injectors all the time just go into a injector shop
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why to you call me m8 when i am lindlake like i said dirty fuel is why and there is lots of car and 4x4 getting new injectors all the time just go into a injector shop
No need to get narky, lindlake...... :Shocked:
In case you didn't know, M8 means "mate"
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Sorry, I wasn't being offensive :Shocked: We have had a few i30's with Fuel and Fuel Filter issues on here but none that I know of (except yours) that have had to have their injectors replaced (twice) :faint:
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why to you call me m8 when i am lindlake like i said dirty fuel is why and there is lots of car and 4x4 getting new injectors all the time just go into a injector shop
No need to get narky, lindlake...... :Shocked:
In case you didn't know, M8 means "mate"
no i do not know what m8 meansa like i said that is not my name :disapp:
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why to you call me m8 when i am lindlake like i said dirty fuel is why and there is lots of car and 4x4 getting new injectors all the time just go into a injector shop
No need to get narky, lindlake...... :Shocked:
In case you didn't know, M8 means "mate"
no i do not know what m8 meansa like i said that is not my name :disapp:
Sorry I will call you lindlake from now on :confused: ( I even call my wife m8 sometimes :Pout:)
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why to you call me m8 when i am lindlake like i said dirty fuel is why and there is lots of car and 4x4 getting new injectors all the time just go into a injector shop
No need to get narky, lindlake...... :Shocked:
In case you didn't know, M8 means "mate"
no i do not know what m8 meansa like i said that is not my name :disapp:
Well, you know now.... :lol:
If you're gonna be so pedantic perhaps you should have your real photo as an avatar, unless of course you really are a cat? :p :whistler:
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:lol:
Does that mean Dazz is a cat? ;)
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@lindlake
As you're obviously from overseas and don't understand Australian colloquialisms, a m8 or mate is another word for friend. It is considered extremely rude to reject an offer of friendliness, which puts you clearly in a minority group, on this forum. Dazzler is a respected founding member of this forum. :TutTut:
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He lives just down the road from me, Phil....well, 30 something k's away..... :disapp:
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He lives just down the road from me, Phil....well, 30 something k's away..... :disapp:
Well, that explains it then. :whistler: :rofl:
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Why are people so unkind? :lol: