[Sheppy]

Hi hope you guys can help.
car just cut out ,with total power loss. When I looked at the engine oil it was empty . Been informed that engine is seized. No low oil warning light ,checked oil two weeks ago and level was fine. Car is only used for local runs . No sign of oil loss .car is an 09 plate. Been told I will need a new engine . No major noise when incident took place.. I'm assuming this would not be covered in warranty

Would be grateful of any advice on repair or costings

[Keith]

Welcome here! But hmmm something doesn't add up.
No leaks, no blue smoke, 2 weeks and almost 5 litres of oils gone...

I see it's a 1.4 petrol, my 1.6 petrol never used or lost a drop of oil between services

No chance of a warranty claim I'd have thought cos they will claim neglect.

Can you describe how you check the oil, what the total mileage is and how many services the car has had over its 5 year lifetime?

By the way there isn't a low oil light, it's a low oil pressure light, to be honest if you wait for that to come on before you check it, it's probably too late....

[Phil №❶]

This is unbelievable, 

When the engine seized, what were your actions. It is not possible for an engine to empty itself of oils without SOME indication that it is happening. The oil pressure light, (assuming it is functioning), should have alerted you to a serious situation. Was there no indication of a leak under your car when parked. If there has been a sudden evacuation of the system, there should be spray evidence where it occurred as the oil pump would have eliminated all the oil from this location.

At the very least, when the engine stopped, did you walk back over the route just driven, to see if there was a trail of oil.

[TheReaper]

Is there a possibility that the oil leaked into the coolant? I know with older cars it could happen. And if you looked under the cap the fluid was a milky color. Dont know so much with the new cars and the technology. But if so, it could cause the oil to be gone without a leak. Piston seal being worn and burning oil, but like keith said, don't know if there is blue smoke. Hmm

[Sheppy]

Thanks for the replays folks . Unable to check road as it was on a very fast  dual cartridge way. But no sign of oil when I looked under car after incident and no oil where we usually park. It would have been due a service in June. Car is coming up to 5 years old done 55000 miles . No prior sound to engine before incident, just sudden lose of power.  I think the coolant container was dark so could this have been a problem?  I don't know much about cars but need to get it sorted ASAP .been told by garage that we will need a new engine is this the case?

[TheReaper]

Haven't noticed any blue smoke? Also do you have any type of warranty, and do you still have the paperwork from the service in june?

Eventhough it may cost you money if you have to have it towed somewhere else, it may be better to get a second opinion. Cars have loss of power for many reasons, but if you checked the oil after you lost power and there was none, that is probably the cause of the shut down. As for the coolant just because its dark doesn't mean oil is in it. Coolant comes in lime green, dark green, and red. But I know with old cars when you took the radiator cap off, if it was milky looking it means it had oil in the coolant lines. I don't know if that is the case the way they make cars nowadays. Someone else can probably elaborate better than me about that.

Also check recall list for your car to make sure that it wasn't a recall with anything in that regard. But becareful before you dive in. You could lose out thousands when you may not have needed to. Good luck

[Keith]

Pretty sure 5 litres of 10 month old oil in the coolant would be pretty obvious even purely by volume.
If it's seized there are 2 choices.
1) Remove, strip and examine, repair/replace as required & re-fit.
2) Remove, purchase a used engine from a reputable source and fit.
Both options might run into £1,xxx - £2,xxx+ but a replacement won't have suffered oil starvation.

[Shambles]

I think you're stuffed, warranty-wise.

How much did your garage say a replacement engine would cost?

Compare that with some online quotes...

Reconditioned:  Engine Shop - engines for sale, take-away or delivered

Supply & Fit:  Reconditioned and Used Hyundai I30 Engines & Engine Parts

[Phil №❶]

I've never had it happen to my vehicles, but an engine seizure should be a violent catastrophic event, with the engine refusing to rotate and welding itself together. This would result in wheels locking up and many other rapid, unique happenings. Did this happen to you,  if not, the engine may not actually be seized.

I would recommend a second professional opinion as we can't really make an informed evaluation from our locations.

[asathorny]

The only engine I have ever managed to seize was a Lambretta scooter on a hot summers day I drove it from Manchester to London BEFORE there was a motorway link, so it was all A and B roads.   What is now a 195 mile journey would have been 250 or even more on our wiggly little roads.

It took most of the day and for most of the time I was leatherin it  ..   

When I arrived at the hospital my girlfriend was awaiting my arrival and we had loads of catching up to so 

The next day, after we'd finished catching up, we decided to drive up to a place just past Windsor and I had foolishly not checked the oil level <sigh>   

Has we entered Old Windsor and we were going past the bottom end of the castle there came forth the sound of THOR striking his anvil with great gusto, a cloud of smoke eminated from the exhaust and the back wheel skidded us to a stands.   Being the good citizen that I am I ripped off the reg plates pushed it in to the ditch waited to all passing toursits et al had moved on then off we walked to Windsor train station and ultimately back to the hozzie for more catching up.
Now I know that some here would like that old Lambretta, and as far as I know it may still be there   

[TheReaper]

The only engine I have ever managed to seize was a Lambretta scooter on a hot summers day I drove it from Manchester to London BEFORE there was a motorway link, so it was all A and B roads.   What is now a 195 mile journey would have been 250 or even more on our wiggly little roads.

It took most of the day and for most of the time I was leatherin it  ..   

When I arrived at the hospital my girlfriend was awaiting my arrival and we had loads of catching up to so 

The next day, after we'd finished catching up, we decided to drive up to a place just past Windsor and I had foolishly not checked the oil level <sigh>   

Has we entered Old Windsor and we were going past the bottom end of the castle there came forth the sound of THOR striking his anvil with great gusto, a cloud of smoke eminated from the exhaust and the back wheel skidded us to a stands.   Being the good citizen that I am I ripped off the reg plates pushed it in to the ditch waited to all passing toursits et al had moved on then off we walked to Windsor train station and ultimately back to the hozzie for more catching up.
Now I know that some here would like that old Lambretta, and as far as I know it may still be there   

hahaha, that's awesome   

[AlanHo]

I had a Lambretta scooter - but mine was a 2 stroke engine which didn't have oil in it.  You mixed it with the petrol.

[Phil №❶]

The only engine I have ever managed to seize was a Lambretta scooter

I prefer a Lambrusco rather than a Lambretta. Good story though Asa.  (Lucky b...ard)

[asathorny]

I had a Lambretta scooter - but mine was a 2 stroke engine which didn't have oil in it.  You mixed it with the petrol.

Alan !!!!!....   Ya mean to say that there was no SUMP oil for the big end and crank.   You mean that a tiny bit of oil added to a litre of petrol lubricated the con rod, small end and big end bearings. 

I step back in amazement 

[Surferdude]

 

[Just Rick]

I had a Lambretta scooter - but mine was a 2 stroke engine which didn't have oil in it.  You mixed it with the petrol.

Alan !!!!!....   Ya mean to say that there was no SUMP oil for the big end and crank.   You mean that a tiny bit of oil added to a litre of petrol lubricated the con rod, small end and big end bearings. 

I step back in amazement 

Yes I have had all the Suzuki triple two strokes,they all had sump oil,but yes you can still seize them if you forget to check the feed tank,then go hell for leather from Melbourne to Seymour and believe me a seized motor at close to the ton,brings forth much Poo AND Pain

[AlanHo]

I had a Lambretta scooter - but mine was a 2 stroke engine which didn't have oil in it.  You mixed it with the petrol.

Alan !!!!!....   Ya mean to say that there was no SUMP oil for the big end and crank.   You mean that a tiny bit of oil added to a litre of petrol lubricated the con rod, small end and big end bearings. 

I step back in amazement 

On the Lambretta the crankcase space under the piston draws petrol/oil vapour from the carburettor on the up stroke and pushes it into the cylinder on the downstroke - hence 2 stroke.  If you had a pool of oil in the crankcase it would be shot up into the cylinder.  Hence the lubrication of the crank, small end and piston is via the oil in the petrol.

Study this and be prepared to answer questions.....HowStuffWorks "How Two-stroke Engines Work"

[asathorny]

I had a Lambretta scooter - but mine was a 2 stroke engine which didn't have oil in it.  You mixed it with the petrol.

Alan !!!!!....   Ya mean to say that there was no SUMP oil for the big end and crank.   You mean that a tiny bit of oil added to a litre of petrol lubricated the con rod, small end and big end bearings. 

I step back in amazement 

On the Lambretta the crankcase space under the piston draws petrol/oil vapour from the carburettor on the up stroke and pushes it into the cylinder on the downstroke - hence 2 stroke.  If you had a pool of oil in the crankcase it would be shot up into the cylinder.  Hence the lubrication of the crank, small end and piston is via the oil in the petrol.

Study this and be prepared to answer questions.....HowStuffWorks "How Two-stroke Engines Work"

Well thank you for that Alan, ya live and learn (even in yer seventies) 

[Marci]

An engine doesn't lose 5 litres in 2 weeks without evidence... puddles / exhaust haze / mankyness in the coolant.

Deeper inspection required. If a piston or rod drops & cracks the head and wipes out a few valves for instance, a lot could have simply burnt straight out the pipe (but we'd expect haze - LOTS - just prior to total seizure), or migrated into the clutch etc ( this should leave puddles tho). If no evidence of prior oil loss, it went somewhere at the time of seizure. I'd still expect there to be SOME in the sump tho, just beyond reach of the dipstick. Sump plug out, drain into catchtray, inspect the mess it contains and you may get some answers (debris in any oil you get out). I'd also be inspecting air box and coolant too - if it was forced out under pressure it can only really take up to six exits - cylinder head, clutch housing, air box, coolant system, exhaust system, or thru a cracked casing into the world to run free with the diesel slicks.

Either that or some unscrupulous goit drained your oil for kicks... or you're missing a sump plug...

Here in UK, Warranty Direct quote an engine replacement for an '08 1.6 Petrol as £3800 inc labour with a new warranted engine.

[Sheppy]

No noise what so ever just a sudden loss of power.. Added oil when cool but engine would not turnover, no blue smoke and no prior warning of a problem..

[eye30]

Now it has been mentioned that this is not a warranty claim.....But.......

I would explore that it may be......

The reason i say this is the consumer/sale of goods legislation.

If you can prove that the oil has gone due to an internal problem then the goods have not lasted as long as one would expect, i.e. still within the 5 year warranty so under normal use you would expect at least 5 years.

However, you will need to explore all the suggestions given on here to rule out user neglect.

Just a few questions. 
When it happened who did you call for assistance?
What was their initial prognosis?
How did you get the car home?
Was there a loud bang when it happened?
Describe how the car came to a halt?
Any evidence of oil splatter along the underneath of the car from the engine to the rear?
Did the temp show evidence of rising in the days leading up to the incident?

[Phil №❶]

The crankcase pulley at the bottom of the motor should be tested to see if turning is possible, using a spanner etc. If it turns, your engine is not seized. Sudden loss of power but no noise or violent shuddering indicates that the engine simply shut down. I know for a fact that the Alfa Romeo, will simply cut the engine, rather than destroy itself as it happened to an acquaintance of mine, could the Hy be as smart as that too.

[John B]

Hi Sheppy , as an ex mechanic this has me intrigued ,in all my years I have have never come across this situation, i have had a head gasket go that has allowed oil to sit on top of a piston and cause hydraulic lock up but there was evidence of oil. As Marci has suggested I would be removing the sump plug for a start and allowing any oil to drain and see  how much is left in the sump and any metal  for some clues. Obviously this needs investigating by a qualified mechanic . Who told you your engine is seized and was he a mechanic , if so what was is his explanation for the disappearance of oil ? You really do need to get a qualified person to look at this  there has to be a logical answer . As you can appreciate all the guys here have tried to help but it is very difficult to diagnose a problem like this from description only. I and probably many others eagerly await the outcome. Good luck.

[Aussie Keith]

Lack of oil and catastrophic failure is nearly always accompanied by heat and nasty smells from the engine. Did you observe anything like this?

[John B]

@ Sheppy,  So any developments on the Engine seizing and the cause ?

[Lakes]

Sheepy, someone might have needed oil & no  money, used you oil. it's simple & possible but your oil light would come on, you did not say, but when you found no oil showed on dip stick. did you go & buy oil & top it up? or did you drive it? i would just top it up with oil & drive it around block & listen, then check oil level  & check 4 leaks.
Something does not add up here but i understand your not in the know on motors, i'm just trying to help . so do this report back.
good luck

[Dazzler]

Sheppy hasn't been back on since the day he joined and posted this thread .. I'm interested too (I'll PM him!)

[TheReaper]

Sheppy hasn't been back on since the day he joined and posted this thread .. I'm interested too (I'll PM him!)

[Sheppy]

Sorry all not been on since I posted the initial thread. Still no new developments. Still trying to source a decent  replacement engine. I am still annoyed  that there was no prior warning to lack of oil. No smell,noise of smell to warrant a problem ..

Any contacts for a replacement engine would be much appreciated

[Sheppy]

Also mechanic has tried to turn engine over manually and is seized solid . As far as I know he has not drained the oil inspect mess. Just told us that a new engine would be cheaper than buying individual replacement parts