[Bnystrom]

I have a US-spec 2012 Elantra Touring. In order to access a loose flasher relay, I disconnected the clutch Interlock/slash inhibitor switch. After dealing with the flasher relay, I reconnected the switch, but the car wouldn't start. I disconnected it again and installed a jumper across the leads, but the car still won't start. Removing the jumper and reinstalling the connector made no difference.

I can't find anything wrong with it other than it just refuses to engage the starter. There are only two wires for the clutch switch. There is also a four-wire brake switch that merges into the same harness, but the brake lights work properly, so that switch must be working and it doesn't have to be depressed to start the car anyway. There is a second clutch switch (probably for the cruise control), but that one isn't in question, though I did make sure that it was solidly connected.

There are no ODBII codes.

As a last resort, I disconnected the battery to do a complete reset of everything, in case this was some kind of computer issue. That didn't help, either.

Does anyone have any ideas? I need to be able to get to work tomorrow!

[Dazzler]

Hi, Hopefully our "Super Techie" Cruiserfied AKA Tim sees this thread and has some ideas. Fingers crossed you haven't fried anything expensive!

[ibrokeit]

This may sound obvious - you have likely done it - but belts and braces...

You have checked the fuses both in the dash and in the engine compartment?

The fact you bridged the leads (unless the switch had a certain resistance built in to allow fault detection) - I would have thought the car would have started (and I would hope there is sufficient fault -protection built into safety-critical input that doing so wouldn't have damaged it - but I am not a Hyundai tech).   Unless it is a plug contact, or loom, problem - which I would hope it isn't... but maybe check the connections in the plug (I am assuming the plug holds the the 'clip' contacts that go over pins on the switch) that go over the pin are reasonably close.

Which would make think something may have shorted while you were dealing with flasher relay.

[ibrokeit]

In a similar vein to my previous post...

When you attempt to start the car do you hear relays clicking?  That can be a useful point in diagnosis - is the car actually getting into the process of switching power to start the engine?

And  it may sound silly - have you checked the battery voltage?   I don't know how long and/or what lighting you had on while attending to the relay... however esp. if the battery is OEM (i.e. from new) it is possible that it is on it's way out...

When mine was failing (still had been starting the car though) - running a small airbed pump for 5mins (without engine on) flattened it enough to prevent car starting - a few days later (just after new years) the battery completely died overnight (car started the day before - not the next morning... totally dead... no lighting, no remote unlock, just nothing).

[Bnystrom]

This may sound obvious - you have likely done it - but belts and braces...

You have checked the fuses both in the dash and in the engine compartment?

The fact you bridged the leads (unless the switch had a certain resistance built in to allow fault detection) - I would have thought the car would have started (and I would hope there is sufficient fault -protection built into safety-critical input that doing so wouldn't have damaged it - but I am not a Hyundai tech).   Unless it is a plug contact, or loom, problem - which I would hope it isn't... but maybe check the connections in the plug (I am assuming the plug holds the the 'clip' contacts that go over pins on the switch) that go over the pin are reasonably close.

Which would make think something may have shorted while you were dealing with flasher relay.

Yes, I did check the fuses and they're all fine. The jumper I used in the connector for troubleshooting simply simulates a closed switch. It's hard to believe that it would damage anything, since it's no different than holding down the clutch pedal. I did check the plug connections and there's continuity with the leads.

[Bnystrom]

In a similar vein to my previous post...

When you attempt to start the car do you hear relays clicking?  That can be a useful point in diagnosis - is the car actually getting into the process of switching power to start the engine?

And  it may sound silly - have you checked the battery voltage?   I don't know how long and/or what lighting you had on while attending to the relay... however esp. if the battery is OEM (i.e. from new) it is possible that it is on it's way out...

When mine was failing (still had been starting the car though) - running a small airbed pump for 5mins (without engine on) flattened it enough to prevent car starting - a few days later (just after new years) the battery completely died overnight (car started the day before - not the next morning... totally dead... no lighting, no remote unlock, just nothing).

When I try to start the car, the dash lights illuminate as expected, but there is no clicking which would indicate a low battery. I haven't checked the voltage, but I'm confident that it's fine. Everything seems normal other than that the starter is not being energized.

Thanks to both of you for your ideas!

[Dazzler]

It could be an immobilizer issue (do you have another key you could try?) You could also try gently tapping the ignition lock with a small hammer or similar. 

[Phil №❶]

Check fuses, earths and relays.

Here is a diagram of the electrics, Not sure of your model, but the drawings are typical for all AFAIK.

Hope it helps

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[cruiserfied]

Hey mate,

          Nice little issue you've got there  im not sure if yours is fitted with burgular alarm but that is up in the same area as the flasher relay. Have you tried wiggling the crap out of the harness around where you were?
         Your right about the clutch switch it is just an on/off switch. Bridging it will have done no harm.
         There are only two fuses to worry about IGN2 40a fusible link and Start Fuse 10a. Cant imagine them blowing for any reason.
         It wont be an immobilizer issue because the engine would crank still.

You seem to know a bit about what your doing. Honestly the first thing i would do is find the starter relay and with ignition on and gearbox IN NEUTRAL bridge the starter circuit terminals. These are easily identified being the bigger two of the four terminals. The engine should crank and should start and run.

Try that and see how you go.

[Bnystrom]

Yes, the car has a burglar alarm. As for the starter relay, the terminals are all the same size, but it appears that terminals 87 and 30 are bridged when it's energized. How would you suggest bridging them? Do you mean I should pull the relay and bridge the terminals? I could try to access the back side of the fuse panel, but it looks like a bear to get to it.

The schematic that Phil No1 sent me appears to be pretty accurate. There's a white wire coming into the switch and a grey coming out that ultimately goes to the starter relay. I was able to get the car to start at one point by supplying current to the gray wire, but the source I used was always on when the key is in the on (not start) position, which obviously won't work. It appears that the issue is probably with the alarm relay, since that's immediately prior to the switch. However, I don't see it in the fuse/relay panel under the hood or under the dash in the area where I was working. I wonder if I inadvertently triggered something in the alarm system.

Thanks for your help!

[The Gonz]

That's starting to make a lot of sense. A lot of alarm immobilisers will still provide all power but not to the starter.

[Bnystrom]

I pulled the starter relay, momentarily bridged the terminals as you directed and the car started and ran! In a pinch, I could use this method to start it until I can figure out the problem. According to the manual I have, the 85 and 86 ground terminals are bridged all the time, but it looks like there's a resistor in the circuit. Do I need to do anything with them for normal operation?

[The Gonz]

Is that a resistor or the symbol for the relay coil?
In any case, this is sounding like an alarm circuit logic fault, not wiring or components.
I'll butt out now.

[Phil №❶]

What is the procedure to reset the alarm. Do that and all should be well.

[Bnystrom]

Yes, it's the relay coil. It's 4 AM here and I've barely had any sleep, so I'm a bit out of it. 

I really want to thank everyone for their assistance. If nothing else, I'm at least mobile again.

If this is alarm-related, I take it that I'll have to get the car to a dealer for a reset or something? I don't think there is a procedure for US-spec cars that doesn't require the dealer-specific scan tool. I'll dig around online to see if I can find something, unless someone here knows what to do.

Worst case, I'll rig up a momentary switch in place of the relay. 

[The Gonz]

Can you identify the specific alarm system? I admit I haven't looked at any diagrams yet, just visualising what you're doing.

[Bnystrom]

It's the stock alarm system that comes on US cars. AFAIK, all Elantras here have them.

Speaking of wiring diagrams, is there  a good online source for them? I have access to manuals, but they don't include full schematics.

[cruiserfied]

Hey sorry my phone/internet dropped out.

You've figured out the jump starting and are mobile which was my primary aim.
Second is you've now eliminated the entire starter motor side of the circuit from fault.

You could put a testlight/multimeter across the other terminals and turn the key. See if the circuit is activating or not. If you get a voltage you probably have a bad relay but if no voltage the problem is elsewhere.

Man i wish i could get my hands on your car lol.

[Bnystrom]

There's definitely no voltage to the circuit. I pulled the starter relay and tested it with the battery and it closes fine. Everything seems to point to something electronic.

There's one new clue, when the engine is running the Electronic Stability Control (ESC) light is on, which it never has been before.

You could always fly to the US for the weekend if you're not busy...

[cruiserfied]

Haha i'd love to as long as i can spend a week in Moab too. And id probably have to kidnap my sister and bring her back to Australia.

Im not sure how the esp light comes into it though. Not sure theres much else i can recommend without being there.

[Bnystrom]

I'll be heading over to a local dealer in 5 minutes. Hopefully they'll be able to scan and reset things and that will fix it. I'll post the results here once things are working properly again.

Thanks again for your help. At least I'm not stuck without a vehicle for the weekend.

[Dazzler]

Good to hear that you are at least half sorted. Look forward to your update.

[Bnystrom]

It turns out that the starting problems was due to a fuse after all. Somehow I missed it. I guess that somewhere in the process of unplugging and re-plugging the connector, it must have shorted against the mounting bracket. Considering how much of a pain it is to manipulate that plug, I'm not surprised in the least.

I have no idea what caused the ESC light issue, but it's gone and the tech didn't mention anything about it.

On the plus side, it wasn't expensive and the dealer informed me that there are two recalls that need to be done on the vehicle (I bought it used back in April). I'll get those done next week (a computer update related to the electronic power steering and an underbody corrosion prevention treatment).

Anyway, I'm back on the road without any jumpers or other nonsense! Thanks to you all!

[Phil №❶]

Excellent result. 

[ibrokeit]

It turns out that the starting problems was due to a fuse after all. Somehow I missed it. I guess that somewhere in the process of unplugging and re-plugging the connector, it must have shorted against the mounting bracket. Considering how much of a pain it is to manipulate that plug, I'm not surprised in the least.

Oh I have been there and done that when working as a tech in the electronics industry - check things, somehow miss the cause of the fault while doing so, then go on to other things in the sure knowledge it can't be in x section of the circuit - pull hair out repeatedly, start over... and then go WTF??  Sometimes I am certain quantum mechanics comes into - Schrödinger, etc. 

I have no idea what caused the ESC light issue, but it's gone and the tech didn't mention anything about it.

cruiserfied will probably have more of an idea and/or know straight up and down (being a Hyundai Tech - 2nd top in the world) - but probably was due to the fuse... the ESC (unless I am confusing things) relies/ties into a number of systems (ABS, EPS/MPDS, various sensors, etc.) - so the ESC might have switched off if one of those reported a fault.

On the plus side, it wasn't expensive and the dealer informed me that there are two recalls that need to be done on the vehicle (I bought it used back in April). I'll get those done next week (a computer update related to the electronic power steering and an underbody corrosion prevention treatment).

Nice that it wasn't expensive, and somewhat of a sliver lining that it meant you got to find out about the recalls - though I am sure you would have been quite happy to forego the part where your i30 didn't start! 

Anyway, I'm back on the road without any jumpers or other nonsense! Thanks to you all!

Well we do try to be helpful.   We also try to be a lot of other things... we usually fail though     Except being smart smart arses - we do that very well!

Anyway great you got your problem solved!!

Oh, and in answer to your question about diagrams (not that I have gone and tried to get my hands on them yet - hence my advice is usually educated guesses) - IIRC there are two basic options... a) there is an official website, or two, you may be able to get access to (fronts-ends for service/repair data system); and/or b) vendors on ebay sale (or did sale) copies of the relevant data - some in PDF, others as HTML, and some a VM image of the official data system).

[cruiserfied]

Good to hear. Which fuse was blown?

[ibrokeit]

This may sound obvious - you have likely done it - but belts and braces...

You have checked the fuses both in the dash and in the engine compartment?

The fact you bridged the leads (unless the switch had a certain resistance built in to allow fault detection) - I would have thought the car would have started (and I would hope there is sufficient fault -protection built into safety-critical input that doing so wouldn't have damaged it - but I am not a Hyundai tech).   Unless it is a plug contact, or loom, problem - which I would hope it isn't... but maybe check the connections in the plug (I am assuming the plug holds the the 'clip' contacts that go over pins on the switch) that go over the pin are reasonably close.

Which would make think something may have shorted while you were dealing with flasher relay.

Yes, I did check the fuses and they're all fine. The jumper I used in the connector for troubleshooting simply simulates a closed switch. It's hard to believe that it would damage anything, since it's no different than holding down the clutch pedal. I did check the plug connections and there's continuity with the leads.

Sorry - was having 'one of those days' (I also managed to leave the 'me' out of the last sentence above  right proper english that is!) writing thoughts disjointed and not linking them together.

My reference to 'sufficient fault protection that doing so wouldn't have damaged it' was meant to be in reference to what I had said about if the switch had built in resistance to allow fault detection.  I have seem some 'interesting' things done in circuits - both in terms of: 'out-side the box' thinking/'tricks' using 'in-depth' knowledge; and not taking basic protection steps (ESD, noise, etc.) esp. on, at least, external lines; sometimes in the same product!   I also learnt just because x is the easiest and/or best way to do something - doesn't mean it was (esp. if the designer felt it was 'too simple').

I didn't think the clutch switch would really be other than a simple switch, nor that if it wasn't (a simple switch) that shorting out the input would cause damage.  But you can never be certain unless you are looking at the circuit diagrams (even then they can, rarely, be stuffed up) and/or measuring the circuit - and I have an auto and haven't got myself access to the service data yet.   Certainly didn't mean to imply you had damaged something by doing so.

Thanks to both you and cruiserfied for confirming the type of switch.