i30 Owners Club
GOT PROBLEMS OR ISSUES? => DIESEL => Topic started by: gpuri on September 10, 2013, 22:47:29
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Hi,
I am new to this forum. I own a 2010 diesel i30 and had been experiencing problem of car stalling on the move without any warning. It has happened 5 times (including once on a freeway with a traffic speed of 100k/hr and once on a railway crossing) in last 12-18 months. The dealer hasnt been able to find a fault code in the car computer on every occasion. After reading some of the threads along similar lines I have come to conclusion that this is an inherent problem with the car because when I took my car to the dealer first time, I was informed straight away that the transmission unit had failed and the dealer kept the car for almost a week awaiting a transmission unit to shipped, but only to ring me one arvo a week later to say that Hyundai Australia engineers in Sydney have advised them to replace the valve unit which was probably causing car to completely stall. However my car continued to stall and had to take it back to the dealer who then apparently identified (or I was informed) that they had discovered formation of a bubble in the fuel line due to a possibly faulty seal to be the cause of the problem in May 2013. Last week the car stalled again in the similar fashion on a busy road and frustratingly enough I had to take it back to the dealer and I also contacted Hyundai Australia. So far the dealer havent been able to find any fault code on the diagnostics performed and Hyundai Australia customer care service had been extremely unhelpful as well as rude to say the least. I had been experiencing the problem of car losing or failing to accelerate on an incline around 12-18 months ago, which the dealer kept ignoring on every service and finally agreed that those symptoms were possibly all related to the current issue. I will appreciate any comments from the fellow users of this forum because I can see my car coming back to me without these major safety issue being resolved and whether or not there are other avenues to get some help eg media.
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G'day mate,
Wish I could help, but mine is going fine....
From memory (and including having the valves replaced on my wife's my11 I30 it is rough/slow gear change rather than stalling. I also remember that the auto failures/valve replacements have been instantly identified and replaced by Hyundai without argument.
I do know that most dealers/mechanics will run a mile from doing long winded diagnostics, because they often spend a lot of 'free time' that Hyundai or the customer won't pay for, so they have a look, and send you on your way, hoping it was either a one off, or it gets worse, and therefore more obvious.
I wonder if there is an electronic gremlin that kicks in, can you think back and try to work out what was consistent when this happened? Did it start instantly when you restarted.
Have you tried the spare key? I wonder if there might be a intermittent fault in the security that causes the engine to cut out? But I am unsure if the security continues to check after allowing the engine to start, so I'm just having a punt.
Hyundai Customer Service is an oxymoron. :twisted: It is lucky that they in the main make good cars...
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Welcome, sorry your 1st post is a problematic one, but hopefully a resolution will be found.
Mention of a trans valve replacement, leads me to assume you have an automatic vehicle.
You will have better luck with Hy service if you can pinpoint the problem for them by logically building up a profile of the fault. For members to offer solutions, we would need more information.
Firstly, the failure of the transmission valve is in no way connected to the engine stalling problem. The valve issue is a reasonably well known problem to Hyundai. I am highly suspicious that at no time have Hy, been able to get a fault code for either the transmission or the engine, this doesn't sound correct to me.
Problems like your engine problems need a lot of information to be provided before anyone can provide a possible solution, so lets see what we've got to work with.
You say the engine does this randomly and even at speed.
Now, for some questions,
How many times has the engine stalled, over what period.
Is the engine at normal operating temp, or cold.
Has it stalled, at idle.
Are there any warning indicators showing on your instruments.
Has your fuel been checked for diesel bug.
Has the Diesel filter been replaced and if so, has it been replaced correctly.
What is the current l/100 fuel consumption of your vehicle.
How much city / freeway driving, do you do.
I simply can't accept that the engine can stop and the ECU does not record any fault codes at all.
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Dear Beerman and Phil No 1,
Thanks for prompt comments. I will try to answer the questions together to keep in one thread. My apologies for not mentioning that I drive an auto diesel 2010 i30 (mileage ~31000kms)
The issue with the engine failing to accelerate on slopes started around 18 months ago and car started to stall round about 12-14 months ago. It happens randomly and only happens during mobile phase and never in idle phase. Almost every time problem of stalling had occurred immediately after taking off at the change of signal at a redlight or railway crossing, but once on a freeway. I used to use freeway twice a day covering 12km segment in a total of 40 kms ride. But for last 8 months I only drive in the city conditions. Car dealer has never found a fault code on the computer (as I have been told) but kept offering me mixed as well as confusing messages. As we speak the car is still sitting with the dealer since I had dropped it in last friday and this arvo they had left a voicemail on my mobile saying the whole diagnostic workup has failed to identify any problem and they have collected lots of data they have forwarded to Hy engineers in sydney and are awaiting their response. The problem of stalling has occurred 5 times all together and is extremely infrequently.
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Addendum:
The car had stalled 3 times in city driving conditions and only once on freeway (ie at a speed of 100k/hr)
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Hi gpuri and Welcome ...
I hate the way service centres use the no fault code excuse to fob drivers off :disapp:
These intermittent faults are the worse kind for everyone .. Sounds like fuel system to me (but has me beat why it is so intermittent) :confused:
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What can stop a Diesel,
Fuel starvation, caused by an air lock, not a very likely situation, but not impossible.
Air flow blockage, not likely as Diesel engine air flow is always fully open.
Diesel Bug, a possibility as the bug is airborne.
Mechanical failure, there would be error codes registered.
So, what next.
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This dealer, where the car is currently, wouldn't be Morley Hy would it? There is a number of us who refuse to go back for any service work because of their abysmal service. No help to you though as it's a warranty issue...
If it was the imobiliser cutting the engine out, without knowing the details of how it actually works, I would think it would not generate fault codes as it would appear to the ECU that the key was removed. Is that a possibility?
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Hi gpuri
:wttc:
I'm thinking accelerator pedal positioning sensor... :question:
If a fault in the sensor, my guess would be that the revs would be limited to idle. Is that what happens or does the engine stop completely.. :question:
I' don't think it's the immobiliser. Not knowing Hy's system, but from VW I know it only check at startup if key and ecu is compatible.
I believe it would be a safety issue if the immobiliser could cut off the engine when on the road.
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Welcome to the forum.
I hope we are able to help you work through this issue.
My experience with Hyundai service departments has not been positive although I love the car.
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Phil < and Dazzler > suggested fuel problems and I tend to agree only because it is claimed there are no fault codes (dealer says)
Why not eliminate the possibility of fuel problems first.
1. Run a bottle of Hyundai injector cleaner through the system in one tank of fuel
2. Give it a good drink of Chemtec (or other suitable additive) to kill any diesel bug (dont tell Hy) and run this through with the next tank of fuel then
3. Install new fuel filter.
4. Open and inspect interior of the old fuel filter. If the bug was the problem there will be a black sticky mess in it
5. Check the fuel lines for any signs of a leak
6. Do not use cheap discounted fuel, use BP or Caltex Vortex
If all this does not fix the problem it can only be in the electronics so you could then get heavy with the dealer.
Good luck. They are a great car. If everything fails come to Bundaberg, the dealer here is A1
Oh and if you do find the bug run Chemtac at the recommended dose for a couple of months to make sure you kill it.
Others here may have some comment on my suggestions.
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Thank you :goodjob2: :goodjob:
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I would say it is the air damper actuator on the intake manifold which closes the damper too much when the car goes in to regeneration mode off the DPF.
You do have DPF huh?
I have heard aboput this symptom before, and it can be a plausible problem on your car.
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I would say it is the air damper actuator on the intake manifold which closes the damper too much when the car goes in to regeneration mode off the DPF.
You do have DPF huh?
I have heard about this symptom before, and it can be a plausible problem on your car.
We did not get DPF on the FD CRDi in Australia .. nice try though :goodjob:
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But if the Diesel Air Cutoff solenoid was faulty, that should kill the engine, right. Note the same train of thought, regarding my other topic about runaway turbo Diesels.
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Dear All,
Thanks for the input and suggestions. The car still sits with the dealer (the one that was suggested in one of the posts). It has been almost 2 weeks now and the dealer had been liaising with Hy Australia engineering section (as informed); and they have also driven the car for over 100kms but failed to simulate the fault or generate 'a detectable fault code' with the computer attached. I have been informed that Hy Australia or the dealer does not want to perform any more testing as they have done 'ALL THEY COULD' because allegedly the dealers do read all these threads to get ideas as I was informed by the dealer himself. So weather or not the dealer has taken anything onboard from all the previous suggestions, thanks to everybody.
Therefore this remains a major safety issue as far as this car is concerned. It may sound dumb, but I have demanded a letter from Hy saying there is nothing wrong with the car and they take full responsibility if this car stalls again and causes a mishap.
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As much as it IS frustrating for you, 2 weeks testing, with no fault codes etc is probably all you should expect at this stage. It's a pity they don't have a portable computer they can attach for a longer period of time. :Dunno:
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Hmm... Data logger, now you are cooking Phil :)
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Hmm... Data logger, now you are cooking Phil :)
:rofl: Data Logger, they're the words I was looking for. :goodjob2:
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Hmm... Data logger, now you are cooking Phil :)
:rofl: Data Logger, they're the words I was looking for. :goodjob2:
I sure did miss such a thing when I was a service manager.
In situations like this, it would be so helpfull if the garage could fit a data logger and then let the owner drive the car until the fault appears again.
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I am having very similar problems with our 2012 (old shape) CRDi auto i30.
Has the OP had any solution or news?
Our car is currently with Zupps service dept in Aspley. They replaced the fuel pressure rail but the intermittent stalling continues. The stall happens at low revs 15-16000rpm and little engine load. In addition, the engine goes into limp mode when on the motorway and throws a engine check light. This occurs when doing 80kmh in 3rd (auto) and if you then try to accelerate. The gearbox drops down to 2nd like it should but won't accelerate over 3000rpm and throws the check light. We get the car serviced every 6 months (lots of short trips but low mileage) and have put 2 lots of Hyundai injector cleaner through (on seperate occasions) without positive results.
I also think the auto changes to third at too low revs (1500 rpm when in third) and the engine seems to struggle. Can the ECU be programmed to shift at higher revs?
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@Fogelfar
Can you tell us the km's of the engine.
We own 2 auto's and are quite happy with the change points, being auto, the engine should never labour in any gear. Having said that, our Diesel will happily pull @ 1500 under light throttle, because it is a Diesel.
You mention fault codes and engine lights, so there is obviously an event(s) occurring that the ECU objects to. Many owners here have Scangauge or similar devices which can display the fault code which can help with diagnosis.
Personally, I would do the following -
- Have the fuel filter replaced
- Usa a Diesel fuel additive which can eliminate water and Diesel Bug from your tank
I use an additive to protect my fuel and have never had a problem like yours. However, there are members who do not advocate the necessity to use an additive, which is their prerogative, of course, the decision is entirely up to you.
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The wont rev past 3000 RPM is a known fault related to the Fuel Filter Assembly
I will try and find a link to at least one thread about it...
Here you go (it was a manual but same issue could be present) It is a warranty fix and would explain the labouring too...
Acceleration Problem in i30 1.6 Diesel (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=2694.msg24680#msg24680)
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@Fogelfar
Can you tell us the km's of the engine.
We own 2 auto's and are quite happy with the change points, being auto, the engine should never labour in any gear. Having said that, our Diesel will happily pull @ 1500 under light throttle, because it is a Diesel.
You mention fault codes and engine lights, so there is obviously an event(s) occurring that the ECU objects to. Many owners here have Scangauge or similar devices which can display the fault code which can help with diagnosis.
Personally, I would do the following -
- Have the fuel filter replaced
- Usa a Diesel fuel additive which can eliminate water and Diesel Bug from your tank
I use an additive to protect my fuel and have never had a problem like yours. However, there are members who do not advocate the necessity to use an additive, which is their prerogative, of course, the decision is entirely up to you.
About 20,000kms from memory. My wife drives it mostly. We have put two bottles of hyundai injector through it. The dealer has replaced the fuel rail pressure sensor but the fault remains. Its possible that the limp mode and associated check light are unrelated to the stalling. after reading the 'limp home' thread that issue may be the CC because it only manifested recently when I used the CC for the first time. I will send you a PM.
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My i30 CRDi has got exactly the same problem, but I had posted on this thread
engine cutsout while driving (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=18551)
and have only just found this thread which is basically exactly the same problem.
It is obviously recurring and yet Hyundai "cannot" find the problem.
I have had new filters fitted, but the problem is getting worse.
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I think I can add my 2009 hyundai i30 (english car) to the list. Its going into the dealers tomorrow for a diagnosis check - whats the bet they don't find anything!
exactly the same symptoms, wouldn't accelerate past 3000 rpm then the engine check light came on. Next jouney the check light had gone out, but on slowing down for the speed check zone the engine just cut......
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Its going into the dealers tomorrow for a diagnosis check - whats the bet they don't find anything!
exactly the same symptoms, wouldn't accelerate past 3000 rpm then the engine check light came on. Next jouney the check light had gone out, but on slowing down for the speed check zone the engine just cut......
Put it in writing that the vehicle is unroadworthy & therefore dangerous.
Armed with this knowledge, in event of an "incident" YOU could be held personally responsible for using it on the road.
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Resolved finally!
Zupps replaced the fuel rail assy, didn't fix it. They replaced the high pressure fuel pump. Didn't fix it. They replaced the ECU, didn't fix it. Finally they got a tech from Hyundai and discovered a bad case of diesel fuel bug in the tank blocking the pre-filter in the tank. Cleaned and flushed the tank and it's running the best ever. It has had this fuel issue from day one brand new. I had researched it and suggested to Zupps it could be diesel bug but they took no notice of me. We also had the car serviced by Zupps every 6 months and they never picked up on clogged filters. hmmm!
The good: Zupps didn't charge us for the fuel clean and flush despite it not being covered under warranty because they had the car for 2 weeks and several times before that.
The bad: while Hyundai covered the cost of a hire car under iCare, We had to cover the cost of insurance excess $30 a day on the hire car. A total of $360. Sure the excess reduction was optional but not really. We would have been liable for the first $3000 if someone had damaged the car (a car park incident for example) and we hadn't been able to get their insurance to cover the excess. I know what rental car company's are like about automatically charging the excess for minor scratches or stone chips.
So now I am paranoid about this bug rearing its head again in the future. I have been filling with Caltex Vortex lately from a new servo but some forums are saying they may have a small % of biodiesel in the Vortex. And biodiesel promotes the growth of diesel bug. I'm thinking of switching to BP. I will be putting Fuel Doctor or equivalent in every fill from now on.
Anyone have thoughts on the best/cleanest diesel?
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See how easy it is to catch this bug. :exclaim:
Ordinary Diesel is quite capable of growing this bug.
I use this in our cars.
Microsoft SkyDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Web (http://sdrv.ms/1iLZ5fX)
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How much does it cost and what is the mix ratio?
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It's $70 a litre last time I purchased, but the dosage is 13ml per tank. :goodjob2:
I think Hy charge about $300 to do a tank clean, so it's a no brainer for me.
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Anyone fitted one of these magnetic diesel debug devices by Morrison here in Australia?
http://www.morison.com.au/ecart2/product.asp?pID=3&cID=1 (http://www.morison.com.au/ecart2/product.asp?pID=3&cID=1)
About $577 but they claim no more costs on no sludge in the bottom of your tank from dead microbe cells after biocides have killed them.
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I had similar trouble with my i30 when it was new. I suspect it may have had contaminated fuel when shipped from South Korea as I am told, the diesel from some Asian refineries is full of this bug. Any how that is another story, I suggested diesel bug and the dealer agreed to run injector cleaner through the system. This fixed the problem and after that I gave it a good drink of Chemtec to destroy any bug that was responsible for the blocked injectors and filter. To this date I use Chemtac on a regular basis and have not had any problems.
I konw this product is used by ADF in their diesel motors and a friend who was in the Navy says it is used in ships, particularily those that refuel in Asian ports. There was a prior post on this subject and I will try to find it and put the link here.
Chemtec worked for me in my prior vehicle a 60 Series Landcruiser that once had a bad dose of the bug and this Chemtec fixed it.
Good luck
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Look here
DIESEL FUEL TESTING? (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=22915.msg247115#msg247115)
Chem Tec diesel fuel additive (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=22085.msg249163#msg249163)
I was concerned about using Chemtec as it might void the warranty, but I have changed my mind and if Hy gives me trouble at a later date I will give them a go for their money.
Hope these to sites help
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:ta: for those two posts Hornet ..
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Thanks for your posts Hornet. Interesting read. I also suspect the infection was from new as the symptoms occurred right from day one. After the clean and flush of the tank Hyundai have communicated instructions via the dealer, "...recommend customer to use diesel conditioner every 2-3 tank fills." So this is a step further than what they told you.
It seems we are lucky to have had Hyundai cover the cost of this saga (except for some significant rental car costs) but they really should cover it if the source of infection was Korea. Of course it's impossible to prove the source and everyone points the finger at someone else.
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Just been reading the tech data on both Chem Tech Diesel Power and Fuel Doctors. About the same price and dosage. BUT Chem Tech is only a preventative and will not destroy and remove bug in an infested tank. They don't recommend overdosing it. Vs Fuel Doctor which can shock treat an infestation and you cannot cause damage by dosing too much or too strongly. In my case of having had an infestation and now cleaned, I am concerned about residual bug in tiny crevices etc. so the Fuel Doctor seems a more aggressive strategy. Phil's choice of Fuelmaster has no biocide action so it also doesn't suit my strategy although it seems a good product.
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"My" product, specifically does NOT use a biocide, on purpose.
Fuel bug can ONLY survive where there is a layer of water / diesel. This is the bug's environment. The product I use, safely eliminates all water form the tank, thus preventing the ability for Diesel bug to exist. You've seen the presentation on what it does to the bug. I have no knowledge of the chemistry involved, other than what is stated. Neither do I have any affiliation with the product or the company, except as a satisfied user of the product.
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Hi Phil. I wasn't trying to diminish Fuelmaster at all. And I don't think I referred to it as YOUR product. I know you have no affiliation with the manufacturer. I do appreciate your help and advice.
I was trying to explain what I saw as the differences between products and that, for my needs, (having suffered an infestation) I preferred a biocide to kill any remnant bug that might be there. I shudder to consider the prospect of a re-infestation and I have no idea how thoroughly the dealer cleaned out the tank and fuel system.
You are quite right that the bugs need water and all the three products eliminate the water and so as a preventative any of the three brands seem a good strategy. Price wise they seem on a par based on their treatment ratios by my calculations.
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I can add to others on the forum who have had their diesel cars stall while they are driving them (I posted on this subject last month). I've only had it happen once but very scary and very dangerous. Good that a fuel additive / cleaner might cure the problem.
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I find it interesting that if you google for Diesel bug in the UK - most of the hits, ignoring those advertising additives, lead you to marine applications. There are few automotive hits.
If you take a look at car forums here - again, any mention of diesel bug seems to be rare. Most people who use diesel (or petrol) additives seem to do so because they think that it increases power or economy (or both).
One of my friends is an ex-fleet manager for a large transport company. They had more than 200 diesel vans and lorries, never used diesel additives and only suffered from fuel problems when a driver refuelled off-base and picked up dirt or water in the fuel.
If you Google for diesel bug (au) you get lots of hits for Australia automotive.
It leads me to the conclusion (guess) that your average temperatures (or down-under bugs) give you a much greater problem.
Or are us Brits who never use additives just lucky?
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Must be due to the prolonged warm temps in oz.
Like you alan never had cause for concern or even heard of in cars before being mentioned here.
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I am told the bug is due to the combined high temp and humidity in OZ and some cheap poor quality imported diesel fuel from Asian refineries. The forum has identified 3 additives that appear to prevent "bug" problems. I would not be game to nominate which is the best and have mentioned Chemtec because of personal satisfactory experience.
I would doubt that OZ harsh conditions would be prominant in the UK so you would not experience the bug to the same extent as in OZ except in marine applications. These harsh OZ conditions produce a good environment for the bug as well as brilliant cricket players so I suppose we cant expect all things to be good :lol:
My advice is that at the first sign of missing or poor performance, (1) use hy injector cleaner for one tank of fuel (2) then use use one of the additives (3) then change the fuel filter (4) use the additive thereafter on a regular basis.
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Another benefit of living in Tassie? :happydance: I had no probs in 28 months with our first (Diesel) i30 and have never heard of the problem down here... :sweating:
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Diesel bug only survives in the presence of water / diesel layer, so you must have an amount of water in your tank, to allow propagation of the bug. Water can enter from moisture rich tropical air, (not a lot of that in the UK), or from poorly maintained tanks, at any stage of the Diesel delivery process. Using an additive to remove the water is just insurance for me. We may never need the additive, but I'd rather use it, than be endangered by a dangerous unscheduled shutdown, plus the expense of removing the bug.
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Hi all, I have the same stalling problem exactly as gpuri described. This is potentially very dangerous. The dealer, unsurprisingly, couldn't find anything. Does the forum have a solution?
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:welcome: Bill, I'm afraid not.. as you can see from this thread and others mentioned in it, we have our suspicions but nothing concrete or proven. :undecided: :Pout:
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Thanks, dazzler. I assume it's an electrical fault. But perhaps it's diesel bug. I live in a moist sub tropical environment. Could fuel problems caused the car to stall?