i30 Owners Club
MODIFYING OR DETAILING YOUR I30 => ENGINE BAY => Topic started by: naser_1998x on September 12, 2017, 23:59:33
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Hi guys,
Has anybody used exhaust wrap on there Hyundai i30 1.6l CRDi. And if yes where? and was it worth it?
I have seen a lot of people use these wraps around exhaust headers, but on my car that's inaccessible, unless I lift the entire engine of course (impossible with the tools I have). So has anyone tried this product?
Many thanks in advance!
P.S. Here is a link of the product I am talking about :link: DEI Titanium Exhaust Wrap - 2" X 50' Roll (http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Hyundai_i30_1.6_2012/p/performance-cars-styling/performance-styling-parts/performance-exhaust/performance-exhaust-accessories/?980770031&0&cc5_1052)
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I'd never heard of it, but here's a link to what it does (for other members)
https://exhaustsystemsguide.com/exhaust-wrap/
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I've used wrap in drag cars but don't think I'd bother on a standard vehicle.
Have fun trying to get it wrapped up :D
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Wow thanks Dazz. :goodjob:
"You’ll get more horsepower because the wrap will keep exhaust heat in the headers instead of dissipating to other areas of your engine." :Shocked:
Yes, the more wrap you use, the more Hp. Imagine, a 500hp i30 could be yours.
But wait , there's more!
The first lucky callers will get.....:phone1:
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:lol: Be great for a Goggomobile. :snigger:
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Wow thanks Dazz. :goodjob:
"You’ll get more horsepower because the wrap will keep exhaust heat in the headers instead of dissipating to other areas of your engine." :Shocked:
Yes, the more wrap you use, the more Hp. Imagine, a 500hp i30 could be yours.
But wait , there's more!
The first lucky callers will get.....:phone1:
Yeah I was "wrapped" when I read about it.. I didn't realise it came with steak knives. :happydance:
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Wrapping exhausts does work in the right situations and is the cheaper option to ceramic coating (sometimes both together) but as I mentioned earlier I wouldn't bother on a standard vehicle, results would be a very minimal under bonnet temperature drop on a stock car and probably the only benefit.
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:D If you read the two links, they appear to be written by the crowd that sells the elixir for life and miracle house cladding (both made from the same secret Amazon rain forest ingredients).
Apart from a reduced rocker cover temperature, there is no evidence presented that the average Joe would see any benefit;
especially, the assertion that keeping the heat in the manifold makes the exhaust gas flow better. :spitty:
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especially, the assertion that keeping the heat in the manifold makes the exhaust gas flow better. :spitty:
I didn't bother reading the links since the use of header heat wrap has been used for decades in racing and I'm quite familiar with it's abilities, the assertion is correct :) but it's not going to make enough difference on a standard vehicle.
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Lots of bikes that are going for the custom look use the wrap.
I think it just covers up crappy old header pipes .
Obviously the "titanium" part was the brand name.
WOFTAM for sure.
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especially, the assertion that keeping the heat in the manifold makes the exhaust gas flow better. :spitty:
I didn't bother reading the links since the use of header heat wrap has been used for decades in racing and I'm quite familiar with it's abilities, the assertion is correct :) but it's not going to make enough difference on a standard vehicle.
Agree. :goodjob: But (in the dragster world) what is the applied scientific theory / evidence regarding it making the exhaust gas flow better?
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The scientific evidence I guess you'll find out there on the net but the basis of it is keeping the heat better contained within the header as hotter air will vortex more efficiently and flow faster.
Keeping the under bonnet temperatures down also helps keep the fuel cooler but again more relative to race cars looking for specific air/fuel temps.
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There's the basic principle of keeping your incoming air as cold as possible, since cold air is dense air. The denser the air, the more oxygen you're feeding the combustion process. By concentrating the heat within the exhaust manifold and minimising the heat leakage using the wrap, you're giving the inlet manifold and surroung intake path the best chance at a colder environment. :victory:
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There's the basic principle of keeping your incoming air as cold as possible, since cold air is dense air. The denser the air, the more oxygen you're feeding the combustion process. By concentrating the heat within the exhaust manifold and minimising the heat leakage using the wrap, you're giving the inlet manifold and surrounding intake path the best chance at a colder environment. :victory:
Thanks Gonz and Craig :goodjob2: That's also why we use intercoolers .
The scientific evidence I guess you'll find out there on the net but the basis of it is keeping the heat better contained within the header as hotter air will vortex more efficiently and flow faster.
This seems to counter that claim. :link: Gas Viscosity Change with Temperature - Department of Physics | Montana State University (http://www.physics.montana.edu/demonstrations/video/4_thermodynamics/demos/gasviscositychangewithtemperature.html)
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Intercooler isn't going to help much in non forced induction engines now is it ;) and even the people who do use intercoolers can still get further reduced temperature benefits from heat wrapping.
The linked display Isnt related in any way, heating the pipe of a low pressure gas flow to demonstrate post combustion changes are different to fuel that has already been through the combustion process and now needs to escape under pressure.
After racing drag cars for many years one tends to pick up some usable knowledge, some through theory and a lot through trial and error :)
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We are debating two scenarios high performance and domestic use motors . Regarding cool air the Intercooler comment simply supports Gonz's explanation .
The linked display Isnt related in any way, heating the pipe of a low pressure gas flow to demonstrate post combustion changes are different to fuel that has already been through the combustion process and now needs to escape under pressure.
After racing drag cars for many years one tends to pick up some usable knowledge, some through theory and a lot through trial and error :)
Unfortunately, your trials were full of error. :happydance:
Yes, The wrap was cooling incoming fuel and air therefore more HP.
How did you separate the power increase from fuel and decide X% was due to exhaust gas flow?
What you have missed twice is the heated pipe theory.
There is a scientific explanation that precedes the demonstration: As gas is heated it becomes more volatile, therefore it will move faster. But as gas heats, its viscosity increases. This slows the flow rate.
:faint:
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I'm pretty sure our trials coincide with the rest of the racing industry.
That's why a well designed exhaust will help create extraction, all aspects combined generate a higher more efficient exhaust flow.
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If you read automotive performance specific topics you'll find information that supports what I already know from personal use :link: Guide to Exhaust Wraps & Ceramic coatings (https://www.torquecars.com/tuning/exhaust-wraps.php) this example doesn't get into the science of it all but the evidence is out there and the proof is with those who've had practical use and thousands of hours of flow testing.
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doesn't get into the science of it all but the evidence is out there and the proof is with those who've had practical use and thousands of hours of flow testing.
With respect Craig, this is the same sort of discourse used by the global warming denialists. It is not evidence based, it simply repeats: "Because you are keeping the exhaust gases hotter you will find they flow better out of the engine". No proof provided.
Just because Bubba and Jethro had a fast run, does not make them scientists.
The link actually relates to the advantage of cold air input which we agree on.
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Your Scepticism might change if you had any physical experience in the matter.
As I said earlier my proof is with actual use and justified by the whole racing industry who follow the same practice, real world tests over decades have proven the benefits but as fore mentioned it's all of little benefit in stock situations.
I'm out :head_butt:
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Your Scepticism might change if you had any physical experience in the matter.
As I said earlier my proof is with actual use and justified by the whole racing industry who follow the same practice, real world tests over decades have proven the benefits but as fore mentioned it's all of little benefit in stock situations.
I'm out :head_butt:
Why assume that I don't have racing industry experience? :whistler:
Your so called proof is premised upon repeating unsupported and out of context drivel that "hotter air will vortex more efficiently and flow faster".
And why is it drivel? Because, when asked for the evidence to support a hotter exhaust creating greater HP ( relative to exhaust wrap) you said: "The scientific evidence I guess you'll find out there on the net".
As science is obviously not of interest to you, I looked , without bias, for some evidence to support your assumption.
The articles I found were to the contrary. eg. BS.
Out too. :)
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Just because you can't find the written documentation doesn't mean it's drivel, if you aren't going to take notice of why you're reading the same claims everywhere ( but no proof🙄 ) and also from someone who has firsthand experience then your intentions are really more just argumentative.
Maybe you could just ring and speak to a few different race engine companies as they usually flow test their own engines, hence they might even have that evidence you're so desperately in need of :phone1: :goodjob2:
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So much for 'out'. :lol:
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So much for 'out'. :lol:
:D
I'd just been up to one of the old drag racing buddies shops and he had a better explanation...
"By wrapping exhaust pipe with an exhaust insulation you reduce how much heat can radiate from an exhaust header pipe and exhaust tubing. You are retaining the thermal energy inside the exhaust system, this reduces the gas density. Thinner exhaust gas, improves exhaust gas velocity inside your exhaust system. This creates a scavenging effect that pulls intake gases through the system quicker, which helps to lower intake temperatures, creating more power."
He also confirms that documentation on the subject might be hard to come by though it's common knowledge in the industry so try contacting Keith Black :link: Keith Black Racing Engines (http://www.keithblack.com/) who should have documented flow resistance charts.
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I'd just been up to one of the old drag racing buddies shops and he had a better explanation...
"By wrapping exhaust pipe with an exhaust insulation you reduce how much heat can radiate from an exhaust header pipe and exhaust tubing. You are retaining the thermal energy inside the exhaust system, this reduces the gas density. Thinner exhaust gas, improves exhaust gas velocity inside your exhaust system. This creates a scavenging effect that pulls intake gases through the system quicker, which helps to lower intake temperatures, creating more power."
He must have read that from :link: Exhaust Wraps (https://www.oldhallperformance.com/heatshield-products/exhaust-wraps)
How exhaust wraps work:
By wrapping exhaust pipe with an exhaust insulation you reduce how much heat can radiate from a wrapped header and exhaust tubing. You are retaining the thermal energy inside the exhaust system, this reduces the gas density. Thinner exhaust gas, improves exhaust gas velocity inside your exhaust system. This creates a scavenging effect that pulls intake gases through the system quicker, which helps to lower intake temperatures, creating more power.
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After this discussion developed I decided to wander the interwebs for a consensus and found the same thing. That makes it only the 3rd time I've read that today. :rofl:
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He must have read that from :link: Exhaust Wraps (https://www.oldhallperformance.com/heatshield-products/exhaust-wraps)
Not sure which site Eddy got it from, he just printed that out for me and said it's correct, if they want more info contact Keith Black.
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After this discussion developed I decided to wander the interwebs for a consensus and found the same thing. That makes it only the 3rd time I've read that today. :rofl:
:D It gets repeated because its so full of concise data.
As would know Gonz, NASA's flight manual is Jules Verne's Journey to the Moon.
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After this discussion developed I decided to wander the interwebs for a consensus and found the same thing. That makes it only the 3rd time I've read that today. :rofl:
:D It gets repeated because its so full of concise data.
As would know Gonz, NASA's flight manual is Jules Verne's Journey to the Moon.
All I want is a bigger intercooler .
(http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads4/1079915142_Image1_sold1100832528.jpg)
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.....................then your intentions are really more just argumentative.
That's the basis of science. The best theories are tested by alternate proposition and argument. On that, they stand or fall. Consequently, many of us have abandoned the notion of a flat earth . :mrgreen:
".... Thinner exhaust gas, improves exhaust gas velocity inside your exhaust system. ."
:rolleyes: The mass of the gas is the same hot or cold. The gas has been heated and pressurised in the combustion chamber.
"The temperature of a gas is a measure of the average translational kinetic energy of the molecules. In a hot gas, the molecules move faster than in a cold gas; the mass remains the same, but the kinetic energy, and hence the temperature, is greater because of the increased velocity of the molecules. " ( NASA)
It is asserted that increased molecular activity causes increased gas viscosity that inhibits flow. (See my uni link)
I'm out again :sweating:
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Ok Einstein, you know more than the rest of the pro racing industry :headbang:
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.....................then your intentions are really more just argumentative.
That's the basis of science. The best theories are tested by alternate proposition and argument. On that, they stand or fall. Consequently, many of us have abandoned the notion of a flat earth . :mrgreen:
".... Thinner exhaust gas, improves exhaust gas velocity inside your exhaust system. ."
Crap. The mass of the gas is the same hot or cold. :head_butt:
"The temperature of a gas is a measure of the average translational kinetic energy of the molecules. In a hot gas, the molecules move faster than in a cold gas; the mass remains the same, but the kinetic energy, and hence the temperature, is greater because of the increased velocity of the molecules. " ( NASA)
The increased molecular velocity is the reason for the increased gas viscosity that inhibits flow. (See first link)
I'm out again :sweating:
Density and Mass are not the same terminology.
Thinner = less dense, The mass of the gas molecules will be the same , yes.
Density is all about mass per volume and a less dense object will accelerate easier or require less force than a more dense object
(http://theengineeringmindset.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/density.png)
Oh, I'm out too, waiting for this goddam red flag to be lifted at Sandown. I think density had something to do with this as well! :fum:
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Quick in again then out. :cool:
We can all agree that heated air/fuel mix reduces hp. Therefore, the exhaust lagging is appropriate on a performance motor that is going to cook the engine compartment. No argument.
But the spin goes further, claiming : " This creates a scavenging effect that pulls intake gases through the system quicker, which helps to lower intake temperatures, creating more power". :eek: This must apply to any car.
If it is factual, car companies could achieve greater power and economy cheaply by a dip and 'lag' of whole exhaust systems during manufacture. Also they would not need to fit under body heat shields.
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Manufacturers wont do it due to cost, as far as I know the under body heat shields as you call them are for aerodynamics and to protect the engine bay from road grime.
I got that mixed up, I'm referring to the plastic under body shields :)
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Manufacturers wont do it due to cost, ...
I'm not a bean counter in car company, so I accept your wisdom.
Although I would have thought Mercedes, BMW et al. would have something to spare.
I also cannot find any after market exhaust systems, even for high end trucks, that do anything other than make free flow systems.
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Some of the more expensive car makers will ceramic coat their headers but it's still not as effective as using the wrap but manufacturers won't use wrap as it only lasts 3 to 4 years before needing replacement and if not maintained properly can unravel and become hazardous.
Also wrapping doesn't look very appealing so that would obviously be a factor as well.
Even in racing if you want the ceramic coating and the wrap you have to do it aftermarket.
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There's the basic principle of keeping your incoming air as cold as possible, since cold air is dense air. The denser the air, the more oxygen you're feeding the combustion process. By concentrating the heat within the exhaust manifold and minimising the heat leakage using the wrap, you're giving the inlet manifold and surroung intake path the best chance at a colder environment. :victory:
but your hy crdi puts hot exhaust gas's into your intake gonz, don't worry both mine did too and they performed good.
I used that wrap on my Harley once but I never saw 1 mph entrap speed gain or 1 tenth in time quicker it was the same with or without. but I tried a different set of pipes, on same bike same day and saw a 12mph trap speed gain and 5 tenths quicker time. but that bandage only works for mummy's.
on a car might help in keeping under Bonet temps down but if that helps or not I have not tested with and without. I don't think it's is worth wrapping up your exhaust system that you can get to easy on the i30.
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One of my mates is getting a very good crowd in Longford Tasmania to ceramic coat his custom headers/extractors inside and out on his supped up Skoda Octavia. :goodjob:
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One of my mates is getting a very good crowd in Longford Tasmania to ceramic coat his custom headers/extractors inside and out on his supped up Skoda Octavia. :goodjob:
Thinking back I wish I'd had done mine too though costs were blowing out with the modifications I had done so I skipped it :rolleyes:
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One of my mates is getting a very good crowd in Longford Tasmania to ceramic coat his custom headers/extractors inside and out on his supped up Skoda Octavia. :goodjob:
Thinking back I wish I'd had done mine too though costs were blowing out with the modifications I had done so I skipped it :rolleyes:
Not sure what it's costing because he's getting several things done and some for a mate as well. Was expecting the lot to be over $1000 though.
He used Mathew Smith Mechanical repairs 41 High street Longford Tasmania if anyone in tassie needs that sort of work done. I know this because I went up with him for a ride.
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I have a coating/plating workshop two minutes up the road next to the classic bike restorers, he would have charged about $300 for my short headers.
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I used that wrap on my Harley once but I never saw 1 mph entrap speed gain or 1 tenth in time quicker it was the same with or without. but I tried a different set of pipes, on same bike same day and saw a 12mph trap speed gain and 5 tenths quicker time.
:happydance: Where have you been Lakes. MATE! :goodjob2:
that bandage only works for mummy's.
:rofl: :rofl:
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I used that wrap on my Harley once but I never saw 1 mph entrap speed gain or 1 tenth in time quicker it was the same with or without. but I tried a different set of pipes, on same bike same day and saw a 12mph trap speed gain and 5 tenths quicker time.
:happydance: Where have you been Lakes. MATE! :goodjob2:
that bandage only works for mummy's.
:rofl: :rofl:
still here m8
did a 41k pushy ride in the bush yesterday, bit easier on new bike but have to still peddle over 25kph as I like it up the front I peddle a lot!
cheers, how is the bow sports car going
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:) She's still undercover. Really hard to find a good 2.8L replacement motor. They came out with bigger M3 motor in 2001-2 so looking for any Bimmer writeoff with that in it. Will be a fun motor, loom and ?? :crazy2: ?? change over.
Stay fit pal :goodjob2:
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:) She's still undercover. Really hard to find a good 2.8L replacement motor. They came out with bigger M3 motor in 2001-2 so looking for any Bimmer writeoff with that in it. Will be a fun motor, loom and ?? :crazy2: ?? change over.
Stay fit pal :goodjob2:
Hope she doesn't grow any more mold! :sweating:
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She's becoming vintage. No problems. We expect to see all sorts of things growing on the veterans. :D :goodjob2:
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I've been checking (mine's not growing) :Pout:
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The only time I had direct experience with exhaust wrap was when I had a dicky alternator and I was advised to try wrapping asbestos rope around the portion of pipe nearest the alternator to give it some heat shielding. The alternator was on its way out and got replaced. No power gains due to that lovely healthy asbestos in my engine bay. Those were the days! :lol:
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Yeah, I shudder to think how much Asbestos laced building material I handled in my younger years! :crazy1: :sweating:
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Yep, Same Same.
In the building industry, half the workers said it was as harmless as smoking, because they were still alive.
And again, they did both so that was the best proof :head_knock: