[SOLVED] i30cw power loss while driving, ESP and EPS gone, radio wiped

Phil №❶ · **Reply #90: March 03, 2015, 22:09:09**

I suspect all will look perfectly normal inside. The real working component measures the torque placed on it by turning the wheel and checking the correct operation of that, will be very difficult.

But, do continue.

sundiz · **Reply #91: March 04, 2015, 17:40:58**

I was filming a video of the disassembly, but I just noticed that the battery of the camera had run out right after I started. But I took few pics also...

Metal "holder" which connencts the power steering assembly to the car had to be removed before the housing of the electronics could be opened. I noticed that one of the brackets was really bent. It looks like the mechanic had to use some brutal force when he removed this from the car. You can see the bent bracket in the pictures I posted previously (in the middle of the assembly, on the left side.)

After removing the bracket it was easy to remove the cover and the PCB. There were lots of white heat transfer "glue" over the two large capacitors. After cleaning them from the heat paste they seemed to be ok. Atleas they were not exploded and nothing was leaking out of them. That was a bummer. Those would have been easy and cheap to replace.

The PCB seems to be soldered to connectors after adding the metal housing on the other side. I was not able to remove the metal so that I could see the other side of the PCB. I think I need to do some soldering in the weekend to remove the PCB from the housing. That seems to be the only way to get to the other side open for inspection. I think I need remove and check all the large capacitors, because those are usually the first ones to break down. Visually they looked fine...

After removing few screws more the actual motor came off. There were some nasty looking crap in the solders of the motor.

After cleaning them the actual solder seemed to be fine. Usually brushless motors are quite reliable, so I'll focus now on checking other things first. Personally I believe that the problem is somewhere in the electronics: the PCB or the sensor.

So one bolt and few screws later the assembly looks like this (the smaller screws are not in the pic

):

I need get pliers to remove locking washer over the axel. That seems to hold the cover which protects the sensor around the axel.

All mechanical parts felt really sturdy. All parts seemed to be tight and I was not able to find any worn out parts or washers.

To this point it has been really easy job to do (if a trained monkey like me can do it in under 30min). Only thing you need is a few torx keys, hex key, a 17mm spanner.

Just starting to wonder why they want to replace the whole assembly if it is this easy to disassemble.

To be continued...

Dazzler · **Reply #92: March 05, 2015, 09:11:13**

sundiz · **Reply #93: March 05, 2015, 17:42:21**

Parts were just lying on the floor. The axel of the electric motor started to look like it was little off centered. Fi30cw2009 mentioned that mechanic had said that the motor is broken. Hard to tell that did he get some fault code that indicated that the actual motor is busted or did he ment that the "motor" (the whole assembly) is busted. Well I wasn't going to play with the parts today, but this happened when I pushed the motors axel with my fingers.

Hyundai i30 power steering motor - YouTube

Is is supposed to do that? Or did we find the cause for the problem? I guess I'll be opening that motor...

Dazzler · **Reply #94: March 05, 2015, 19:43:56**

Quote from: sundiz on March 05, 2015, 17:42:21

Parts were just lying on the floor. The axel of the electric motor started to look like it was little off centered. Fi30cw2009 mentioned that mechanic had said that the motor is broken. Hard to tell that did he get some fault code that indicated that the actual motor is busted or did he ment that the "motor" (the whole assembly) is busted. Well I wasn't going to play with the parts today, but this happened when I pushed the motors axel with my fingers.

Hyundai i30 power steering motor - YouTube

Is is supposed to do that? Or did we find the cause for the problem? I guess I'll be opening that motor...

Definitely doesn't look right! Bushes worn out?

Lorian · **Reply #95: March 05, 2015, 20:08:28**

Very interesting. Motor looks busted

Soldering looks ok, just flux not cleaned off I think?

What's the manufacturer, voltage and temperature ratings for the Capacitors? Are they SamYoungs?

Phil №❶ · **Reply #96: March 05, 2015, 22:27:32**

Can't see any fault with the motor shaft. I assume the shaft is held in place by the now removed top cover, so naturally it will wobble. Looks like it was being held by magnets fixed around the edge, that would be expected.

sundiz · **Reply #97: March 06, 2015, 05:19:42**

Quote from: Phil №❶ on March 05, 2015, 22:27:32

I assume the shaft is held in place by the now removed top cover, so naturally it will wobble.

That is the motor there are no other "covers". That wobbly axel goes straight up in to the steering column. The wobbly axel head has some sort of rubbery insert. I believe that works as some kind of shock absorber between the axel of the steering column and the axel of the electric motor. I try to check if the steering column axel centers the motor axel (and stop the wobble). Even if it would center the motors axel the rubbery insert will allow some sort of wobble, I think...

I tried to see if the motor could be disassembled, but there were no screws or bolts anymore. Do they use heat expansion in the assembly of these smaller motors. I know that in larger motor that is a common trade. I don't know the english word for that process but I mean that when they cool down the axel and heat the surroundings. Then they assemble the parts and when the temperatures goes back to normal the two parts stay together like they were built from one piece. If thats the way they have assembled this motor I believe a sledge hammer could be the next tool I need.

Phil №❶ · **Reply #98: March 06, 2015, 05:47:56**

Thanks sundiz.

Yes, they use the same method of fixing the pins of aeroplane wings to the fuselage on 747's.

Wingerdave · **Reply #99: March 06, 2015, 08:21:04**

Quote from: Phil №❶ on March 06, 2015, 05:47:56

Thanks sundiz.

Yes, they use the same method of fixing the pins of aeroplane wings to the fuselage on 747's.

and flywheel gear rings, and bearings etc, etc. To many things to mention

sundiz · **Reply #100: March 07, 2015, 16:44:29**

Boy those lock washers around the axels were real pain in the ass. Spend over an hour removing three lock washers

. I definately need new lock washer pliers.

I opened the covers of the optical axel sensor. That seemed to be in good (clean) condition. I tested the two LEDs on the sensor PCB and they worked as intented. Also the optical fibre prism thingy was fine.

Real blurry pic. Camera did not want to cooperate.

I tried to solder the connectors off the PCP so that I could check the other side of the board. Unfortunately the connectors are so massive and there are huge copper areas on the board that my soldering irons small tips weren't able to produce enough heat. Good tips for smd soldering but pretty much useless with stamp size copper areas. I'll need to find my heat gun somewhere so I can remove those sonnectors.

There are 3 electrolythic capasitors on the PCB. Manufactured by Epcos? Never heard of that company... 2x 1800µF 35V. I guess the temperature rating is 105*C. Product number B41858-S7188-M10. And one 180µF 35V 105*C. Can't read the product number of the smaller one.

I ran out of ideas what to do the motor so I assebled the whole crap together (except the PCB). It might be that Phil was right: The axel housing might center the motor when motor is bolted on. I was not able to hear any nasty noises when I rotated the steering axel with my hands.

I was thinking of rotating the steering column axel with electric drill (higher speed to hear if the motor would make any noise). Then I would have measured the motor connectors with volt meter. I thought that the motor would work as a generator when rotated so I could get some voltage levels out of the motor. But that plan backfired when I noticed that the steering column axel does not fit into my electric drill. And the threading of the axel seems to be little tighter than in standard bolts so I can't put a nut there and rotate the axel with impact driver...

Im starting to run out of ideas. Luckily it's beer o'clock now...

Dazzler · **Reply #101: March 08, 2015, 03:04:23**

You are doing a good job.. Interesting exercise!

Lorian · **Reply #102: March 08, 2015, 16:41:24**

Epcos (TDK) make quality caps, don't expect them to be causing the issue, they are not prone to leak.

Lorian · **Reply #103: March 08, 2015, 16:53:12**

Quote from: sundiz on March 07, 2015, 16:44:29

Im starting to run out of ideas. Luckily it's beer o'clock now...

something like 9/10 the reported errors on power steering requiring replacement are reporting an issue with the combined steering angle/torque sensor........

sundiz · **Reply #104: March 11, 2015, 17:41:04**

Quote from: Lorian on March 08, 2015, 16:53:12

something like 9/10 the reported errors on power steering requiring replacement are reporting an issue with the combined steering angle/torque sensor........

Based on this info, I tried to check the sensor once more. It must be the practice (and new tools). This time it took about 15min to get the steering column assembly in to this condition.

This time I was able to get all the lock washers out and I hammered the sensor axel out of the housing.

To my suprise the gearwheel is made out of plastic... The gearwheel seems to be in order. Can't say what it should look when it is brand new, but for me it looked to be in good shape. Still not my favorite material for gearwheel in steering column...

The gearwheel connects to metal threads in the housing. That "screw" is rotated by the electric motor.

This next one is the part where the motor axel is connected (spring and center housing missing in the picture).

It looks like there is still a pin holding the axel/sensor right next to the steering angle sensor.

I tried to hammer it out, but it did not want to move... I was not able to get it out. It's starting to get late and I don't want to upset my neigbours by hammering it anymore today. I even tried to cool the pin down with freeze spray but that did not help at all. Ill have to try it some other day.

Dazzler · **Reply #105: March 11, 2015, 19:28:09**

You are doing a very thorough investigation sundiz , well done! If you don't find the fault it won't be for lack of trying!

Shambles · **Reply #106: March 11, 2015, 19:33:31**

We're going to need an autopsy section

i30mad · **Reply #107: March 26, 2015, 20:36:35**

maybe a old post but I have a Delphi ds150e system, if anybody local im happy to diagnose any i30 free of charge.....also common failure on i30 is the abs sensor on NSF hub which affects the esp, don't know about the eps,

cruiserfied · **Reply #108: March 27, 2015, 09:50:58**

Quote from: i30mad on March 26, 2015, 20:36:35

also common failure on i30 is the abs sensor on NSF

That's a new one to me.

Asterix · **Reply #109: March 28, 2015, 18:10:19**

Quote from: cruiserfied on March 27, 2015, 09:50:58

Quote from: i30mad on March 26, 2015, 20:36:35
also common failure on i30 is the abs sensor on NSF
That's a new one to me.

I replaced the right front abs sensor on mine at around 180.000 km....

ibrokeit · **Reply #110: April 05, 2015, 10:51:28**

Quote from: sundiz on March 05, 2015, 17:42:21

Parts were just lying on the floor. The axel of the electric motor started to look like it was little off centered. Fi30cw2009 mentioned that mechanic had said that the motor is broken. Hard to tell that did he get some fault code that indicated that the actual motor is busted or did he ment that the "motor" (the whole assembly) is busted. Well I wasn't going to play with the parts today, but this happened when I pushed the motors axel with my fingers.

Hyundai i30 power steering motor - YouTube

Is is supposed to do that? Or did we find the cause for the problem? I guess I'll be opening that motor...

That is interesting - I had trouble with the EPS, eventually (after the problem returned a second time) the 'steering shaft' was replaced under warranty (thank goodness) - the thing was...

I noticed going over certain bumps in certain orientations - I would hear a clunk from under the dash. For example at the top of a steepish incline/hill is a roundabout, literally you remain unflat until you get onto it, the surfaces are uneven so you do get a slight drop/bump
Friends, who are a married couple and borrow my car from time to time, drove the car each time it had EPS issues and they said the time right before the replacement it was much harder to steer than previous times (I hadn't noticed - but I am not small)

Not saying it is - but both aspects could be ascribed to what is shown in the video (if it isn't supposed to do that).

Phil №❶ · **Reply #111: April 05, 2015, 11:03:03**

I would consider that behavior perfectly normal. The shaft of the motor is normally kept in the centre position, not touching any magnets but considerably under their magnetic field, by whatever the cover for the motor is. The movement is just the magnets in the motor body attracting the iron core, which is the shaft.

ibrokeit · **Reply #112: April 05, 2015, 14:31:48**

Quote from: Phil №❶ on April 05, 2015, 11:03:03

I would consider that behavior perfectly normal. The shaft of the motor is normally kept in the centre position, not touching any magnets but considerably under their magnetic field, by whatever the cover for the motor is. The movement is just the magnets in the motor body attracting the iron core, which is the shaft.

I do too Phil (I trained in Electrotechnology) - what caught my attention was the fact the video appears to show it only happening in one direction (two if you count the return separately). Of course on reflection that may have just been the way sundiz demonstrated it - rather than the only way it could move like that.

The behavior you describe for certain motors in this situation (cover off allowing shaft movement) is, as you say, normal for them - of course usually the armature/rotor (as it appears in this case) will move in any direction where it is attracted (which is usually more than two positions around the field/stator now days).