[slok]

Hi all,
I thought I’d come on hear to let you know that I successfully got LEDs running in my 2008 diesel. I have had to replace a number of bulbs and most recently I had both go at once . I thought – that can’t possible happen, it must be a fault somewhere. But no, it was just the bulbs.
Anyway I took a punt and got a pair from the eBay that were advertised as being for the i30CW. Either that was a stretch or the CW has a different reflector to the hatch, but the emitter assembly didn’t actually fit through the bulb port in the back. I had to ream it out by only around 0.5mm, and that wasn’t too difficult. More difficult was actually stuffing everything into enclosure – the driver, the significant amount of cable and connectors and the back of the bulb with it’s fan forced cooling assembly. Eventually I got it all in there and I’m pretty happy with the performance. There is a smooth spread of white but not too bluish light across the road where I want it to be and not where I don’t want it to with no shadows or bright spots that I could detect.
Hopefully that fan keeps spinning and it can dump enough heat within the enclosure to keep them cool enough. I am considering cutting some big ports in the cap at the back and covering with some kind of dust filter (open cell foam seems to be used elsewhere in the enclosure).
Anyway I’ll check back in down the track to let you know if anything goes amiss.

[beerman]

Mate, be careful they may not be legal....

From the RACQ.....

LED headlights

An increasing number of new vehicles are appearing with original equipment Light Emitting Diode (LED) headlights. These are acceptable under Australian Design Rule 46 and their claimed benefits include reduced power consumption that translates into fuel savings and emission reductions.
Aftermarket LED headlights
There are also aftermarket LED conversions available that use an LED bulb in the vehicle's original headlight assembly. We are not aware of these having been tested and certified as meeting the requirements of ADR46, and without this certification they are not acceptable for on-road use.
Compliance issues

    LEDs change colour slightly as they warm up, and the ability of such conversions to focus and direct their light output correctly.
    LED bulbs are constructed differently and give off light in a different way to conventional filament or gas discharge bulbs, so there is a concern that the headlight's output could be affected, causing glare to other road users.
    LED headlights also require a self-levelling system as defined in ADR 13.

Advice received from Queensland's Department of Transport and Main Roads is that due to differences in headlight design, these conversions would need to be certified for the particular application, rather than just as a blanket approval for the LED bulb.

We understand that some Queensland drivers have already been fined for using these unapproved conversions.

http://www.racq.com.au/cars-and-driving/safety-on-the-road/driving-safely/headlights#tab-phracq_body_1_phracq_contentcontainer_0_phracq_tabs_containerc034a2d8098d418d83769bd929beb6b4_3_divTab

[Phil №❶]

Probably an amazing feat, but not a good idea really. The enclosures are not designed to accept the devices nor cope with the heat output.

Then there are the legal issues as well. Be prepared to cover ALL insurance costs for all vehicles in the event of an accident. 

[elantraelite]

Eh...show us some photos!

How do you find the LED's for lighting?

[Shambles]

Are we actually talking about LEDs here, or HIDs?

I wasn't aware that LED arrays needed fan cooling

[constipated]

Probably an amazing feat, but not a good idea really. The enclosures are not designed to accept the devices nor cope with the heat output.

I think the enclosures have to deal with a lot more heat with incandescent bulbs than LEDs will ever produce.

Then there are the legal issues as well. Be prepared to cover ALL insurance costs for all vehicles in the event of an accident. 

This is a bit of scare mongering isn't it. Has there been any evidence that this would be the case.

[The Gonz]

I think the ventilation concern isn't about expelling as much heat as is produced by incandescents but about expelling enough heat to keep the delicate LEDs from suffering thermal runaway/breakdown (note the LEDs have fans and the incandescents don't!).

As for insurance companies, they will use anything outside the strictly legal use and configuration of a vehicle to get out of paying up.

[CraigB]

Good ( expensive ) direct replacement ones are ADR compliant depending on state " not sure which state "

LED headlights will use cooling fans inbuilt or for the top of the range versions they can get away with using heat sinks like the one below, more here LED Headlight Bulb Conversion Kits - At Pro-Vision we stock the brightest and best LED headlight bulb conversion kits.

[Just Rick]

I put LED's in Cyril when he was here,went through all the crap of the reaming the fitting holes,after one trip to Perth and Back(in the pitch Black)on returning home I removed them and went back to the Phillips 120+,personally I thought although a very white light it did not throw far and I was constantly getting people flashing me although I was already on low beam.

Not sure what the factory fitted LED's are like to drive behind,but I do know that they are absolutely shite to drive towards.

As for insurance scare mongering unless the modifications are legal for that vehicle which they are fitted too and also approved by your insurer,you run a high risk of being wiped by your insurer in the event of a serious accident

[Phil №❶]

It was not my purpose to scare anyone, but to simply highlight that it is a very real possibility, especially if they were contributors to a night time accident. LED'S do not emit light in the same manner as a filament bulb and as has been stated a few times already, there is a big difference between reflected light and emitted light. There is a scientific reason for this, but I can't remember where the document is, but in layman's terms, the glare from approaching LED's is much higher than a standard filament AND the reflected light from the illuminated objects is LESS than a filament bulb. Probably 1 reason DRL'S are predominately of LED design.

LED's are already OEM fitted to some vehicles, but great care about avoiding oncoming glare is also built in and particular attention has to be given to the "temperature" of the light. Too high, and you will depart from white into the blue spectrum an you won't see too much at all. Too low and you stay in the yellow spectrum which will yield acceptable results but isn't a lot different to current technology. At $199 to convert, I wouldn't bother,,,,, yet.

[slok]

Eh...show us some photos!

How do you find the LED's for lighting?

here's a few pics :
Dark road lowbeam

Dark road with highbeam

Up against a nearby fence

With highbeam on the fence



I'm certainly stoked with the light throw though. Certainly higher intensity than the halogensThe light definitely has a different look to it - the edges of shadows that it cast are more clean cut. It's whiter than halogens but I don't think that i'd say it's distinctly blue. I believe the colour temperature was listed as 5000K. Because auto white balancing is used on the photos, the shot which includes the high beam as well shows the low beam as fairly blue but when it's just the low beams, that's less perceptible.


As for stray photons glancing upward, there is a baffle  running horizontal across in front of the bulb which appears to be designed to completely cut of light at a certain level which should be adjustable via the little tilt adjustment screw. my brief investigation suggest that no light is getting above oncoming bonnet level as it the case with other car headlights I'm aware of. The photo against the fence shows where it kind of cuts out.

I think the ventilation concern isn't about expelling as much heat as is produced by incandescents but about expelling enough heat to keep the delicate LEDs from suffering thermal runaway/breakdown (note the LEDs have fans and the incandescents don't!).

As for insurance companies, they will use anything outside the strictly legal use and configuration of a vehicle to get out of paying up.

As for the heating, I'll do a bit of investigation on this when the weather warms up a bit to decide if I need to port the enclosure somehow but I think the fans will work to keep the heat out of the junction even if the air in the enclosure into which it is dumping has heated up a bit. This is a bit of an experiment anyway. I noticed the fans actually spin up and down like a laptop cooling fan - presumably in response to the temperature.


The insurance thing is a valid point, but I reckon you'd have to be pretty unlucky to get picked up on this one. Just like the insurance companies, we all have to decide what level of risk we're comforatable.

LED'S do not emit light in the same manner as a filament bulb and as has been stated a few times already, there is a big difference between reflected light and emitted light. There is a scientific reason for this, but I can't remember where the document is, but in layman's terms, the glare from approaching LED's is much higher than a standard filament AND the reflected light from the illuminated objects is LESS than a filament bulb. Probably 1 reason DRL'S are predominately of LED design.

Not to sure about this glare/reflection issue but could it be something to to with the degree of polarisation of the light being higher or lower than regular filament bulbs? looking at the headlights straight on I couldn't see there being any more glare from the light itself, if anything maybe a bit less but didn't really consider this for reflected light.

and finally - apologies for the megapost 

[CraigB]

@slok, do you have a link to the one's you purchased so others may check them out.

[Just Rick]

slok never apologize for a very informative post,but as for your insurance,don't think it comes down to luck,as in a serious accident or a right off case they go over the car with a fine tooth comb and they will nit pick over anything that has not been reported to them and is not standard to the vehicle,believe me I have just been through the ringer with the insurance company,but as I could prove that all the mods I had done to my car were approved by them,they reluctantly paid me out and where happy to re insure the replacement vehicle

[constipated]

I think the light pattern looks quite good. Exactly as it appears on my FD with halogen bulbs. Horizontal cut-off with it taking off on the left hand side.

[Phil №❶]

After having been critical about the LED's, I must say, they are impressive. Can't wait till they are standard OEM fittings. The cut off is there because they have simply placed the emitters where the filament would be on standard globes, this means the reflectors are correctly positioned etc. However, the problem is that when the rear of the vehicle is loaded, the full intensity of the LED's is fired at oncoming traffic and at the increased rate of output (as stated by the led manufacturers), is blinding. If an accident resulted from this, you can imagine the insurance issues. Cars with OEM high intensity lights fitted have self leveling devices for that very reason. Although very effective, it is a bit simplistic to simply ignore this requirement with LED's.

I do commend your work in fitting the LED's though.

[slok]

Thanks for the feedback folks and also the further advice re: insurance. I think if I approached them about adding LEDs they'd be looking for some kind of Dept Main Roads and Transport tick that they were legit.

I hadn't heard of the self levelling devices on new vehicles but as I was driving through a traffic calming set of speed humps last night I was very concious of the flash I got from and oncoming new 4wd as it's front end lifted over the hump, so I can see how there is a need for something. To avoid overloading the back seat maybe I need one of those particularly offensive bumper stickers you see around- something about ladies of a certain build being prohibited...

I wasn't planning to link to the particular eBay Item as I'm not in the business of providing free promotion to a particular seller. I think I have provided enough info on this thread to allow you to work out the ones I went with. 

[Phil №❶]

The flash i9s accentuated by the design of the lights. Projection lens type lights with the big glass bubble concentrate the light, which is great on the road, but not too good in your eyes.