i30 Owners Club
GOT PROBLEMS OR ISSUES? => DIESEL => Topic started by: pumpo64 on April 26, 2009, 14:40:41
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My i30's a couple of months old - done about 2000 miles. I notice that it really doesn't like being driven with the revs below 1500, becoming slightly jerky and requiring a lower gear.
I'm comparing this with my previous car, a 1.8 TDCI Focus, which would happily run in any gear at 1000 RPM. Not necessarily a fair comparison, because they're two very different vehicles.
Has anyone else experienced this, or is it just me (in which case I'll contact my dealer)?
And if it's a known characteristic, has anyone here contacted Hyundai? I expect that the engine's power/torque curves could be reset with a software change, and I'd happily sacrifice a bit of top end if the bottom end could be improved.
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Personally mine doesnt like going too far below 1500rpm in 5th gear, but as you go down thru the gears it becomes happier. In first, second and third it doesnt seem to mind at all. I've noticed in cooler weather it seems to feel more responsive off-boost and happier at lower RPM.
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I can just about manage 27mph in 4th, below which I get the "judder of death". Can't remember what revs are showing at 27mph tho
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I can drive 50km/h in 5th without shudder on my 1.4 petrol. As long as I go straight, the car runs very silently and smooth :)
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Has anyone else experienced this, or is it just me (in which case I'll contact my dealer)?
Yes
I can only put car into 5th @ 40 mph plus.
5th is like having the "overdrive" from the 70's i.e. all cars had 4 gears but in the 70's certain top of the range models started to introduce an "overdive" - 5th - for cruising on motorways
When I first got my car I thought this was an issue as I could put my previous car - petrol Accent - into 5th @ 30 mph.
After speaking to the garage I was informed that it was how the diesel engine and management system operate
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i found, summer time here in Australia the CRDi is happier than wintertime when its below 10c but i does not like going below 1,500 in 5th but can in the lower gear ok runs better with premium diesel
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I don't think there's a problem, engine is still tight, like any car, petrol or diesel if it feels unhappy in a gear, change. You are probably not running it efficiently at these revs anyway unless you have the 'boost box' that Shambles has.
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Hyundais CRDis don't like going under 1,500 rpm.. It can go only in 1. and 2. and sometimes 3. That means that in 5. gear you can drive min. 70 kph and not under..
I also noticed the same thing on my ex car Hyundai Accent 1.5 CRDI 110 hp and our Santa Fe 2.2 CRDI 155 hp.. When I had Elantra 1.6 petrol, I could drive 50 kph in 5. gear..yap..
I actually got used to driving above 1,500 rpm and it "feels" normal now..
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At around the 2000km mark i was seeing somewhat the same sort of thing, as mentioned about 70km/h is minimum for 5th unless your sitting at a dead constant speed and dont want to accellerate or go up a hill of any sort then you can go slower but use more fuel because of the load of the gearing :D
Ive just done ~4500km's in a week out in the country and now around town it does seem a bit more lively and doesnt seem to struggle as much down low as what it seemed to before.
I'd just put it down to a tight engine still, i would think these days it takes a good 10,000km's(to about 15,000) to loosen up nicely.
Mention it to your dealer at service time but i think they will say its *normal* and slowly as your km's increase it will get a bit better, or excercise that right foot a bit more when its warmed up and help the process along a little.
Giving it some revs when new is recommended as it helps give a better ring seal.
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My i30's a couple of months old - done about 2000 miles. I notice that it really doesn't like being driven with the revs below 1500, becoming slightly jerky and requiring a lower gear.
To summarize what everyone else has said...and my findings as well..
Yes it is a known characteristic of the 1.6 Diesel... and if you do a search you will see it has been mentioned b4...
While it is a bit disconcerting the first couple of times it happens you soon learn to stay in 4th if you are going to drive at much less than 70kph for any length of time...
I personally wouldn't sacrifice any top end performance to reduce this judder...
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While it is a bit disconcerting the first couple of times it happens you soon learn to stay in 4th if you are going to drive at much less than 70kph for any length of time...
I personally wouldn't sacrifice any top end performance to reduce this judder...
Me neither, but I would prefer that the motor just gave up instead of getting "cranky". I consider this a design limitation along with the aggressive traction at 1000 RPM! Depending on selected gear you can't go below 1000 RPM without being "pushed" or you can't go below 1500 RPM without "judder". Neither should happen in my opinion.
But, I can live with these I guess for the trade-off. :D
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Thats why I've always felt the i30 needs a 6th gear. You can cruise at 60km in 5th, and about 80km, change up to 6th
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Thanks for the replies everyone.
As I suspected, there's nothing wrong with the car. Also, as the engine loosens up it may improve; although I doubt whether it'll get much better.
This business of being pushed along at low revs - mine doesn't do it. Maybe it's not allowed in the UK?
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This business of being pushed along at low revs - mine doesn't do it. Maybe it's not allowed in the UK?
Oh yes, and what a fine feature it is too :)
Easy coasting in slow moving traffic - both feet flat on the mat
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My 1.6 i30 crdi auto has done about 2000 klms. I find that when travelling at 70kph at 1500 revs and attempt to accelerate slowly ( to keep up with traffic) it does not change down but tends to 'labour'. with further accelaration it changes but this is not always possible in close traffic. i can select 3rd however this defeats the purpose of auto. Has anyone else had this problem? I am concerned about damage to either the engine or gearbox.
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My 1.6 i30 crdi auto has done about 2000 klms. I find that when travelling at 70kph at 1500 revs and attempt to accelerate slowly ( to keep up with traffic) it does not change down but tends to 'labour'. with further accelaration it changes but this is not always possible in close traffic. i can select 3rd however this defeats the purpose of auto. Has anyone else had this problem? I am concerned about damage to either the engine or gearbox.
I don't have auto, but in other late model auto's the computer learns your driving style, if you are agressive it shifts back a gear quick, if you drive easy most of the time it will hold high gear more. if you want it to kick back quicker, you normally find disconecting the battery and waiting say 5 minutes or more then reconecting battery this clears the computer, then drive harder and the computer will make it kick back quicker.
but this will not be good for economy.
this is probably what Sweetbix ment about petrol and diesel, she said the diesel was less responcive than the petrol when she test drove both, but she did not say if they were manuel or diesel, but i enjoy driving a high torque motor in auto more than a low torque motor that kicks back a gear to keep the revs up, i don't like auto's kicking back a gear all the time. but just me. if your motor feels like it is labouring just manualy shift it out of overdrive, easier on the trans too.
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Thanks for the advice, perhaps I'm 'babying' it a little. I' ll try a more aggressive approach and let you know.
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this is probably what Sweetbix ment about petrol and diesel, she said the diesel was less responcive than the petrol when she test drove both, but she did not say if they were manuel or diesel, but i enjoy driving a high torque motor in auto more than a low torque motor that kicks back a gear to keep the revs up, i don't like auto's kicking back a gear all the time. but just me. if your motor feels like it is labouring just manualy shift it out of overdrive, easier on the trans too.
Lakes both the diesel and petrol i30's I test drove were autos. I didn't find that overall the diesel was less reponsive, it was only when first accelerating I found the petrol suprised me a little as it felt more sensitive..I hope this makes sense? :)
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Thanks for the advice, perhaps I'm 'babying' it a little. I' ll try a more aggressive approach and let you know.
Just try it with more gas. There's probably no need to floor it, try with 1/2 of gas, if that doesn't work maybe 3/4? It all depends on gearbox and how responsive - fast it is.. If you shift in 3rd so you could accelerate and keep up with the traffic won't do much harm I think, but it's as you've said annoying - especially because you have auto to avoid shifting it manually..
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Hey Sweetbix, no worries.
what we have to also remember is that the i30's are fly by wire, i like fly by wire, but you have to also remember depends on the software being used. as when you use the throtle does not mean that is what the engine will get too, as its not a direct link just computerized. i'm not sure how the diesel fly by wire works but with petrol normally if you baby it it gets the least agressive timming and fuel curve, then you hit throtle faster and it goes to most agressive for performance.
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My 1.6 i30 crdi auto has done about 2000 klms. I find that when travelling at 70kph at 1500 revs and attempt to accelerate slowly ( to keep up with traffic) it does not change down but tends to 'labour'. with further accelaration it changes but this is not always possible in close traffic. i can select 3rd however this defeats the purpose of auto. Has anyone else had this problem? I am concerned about damage to either the engine or gearbox.
I just picked up a 2nd hand 1.6 i30 crdi auto (10,000ks) and having driven a whopping 350 odd ks I have noticed this, a couple of times usually under load up a hill with a lightish throttle, a slight shudder which it quickly pulled through. Is this the same thing?
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My 1.6 i30 crdi auto has done about 2000 klms. I find that when travelling at 70kph at 1500 revs and attempt to accelerate slowly ( to keep up with traffic) it does not change down but tends to 'labour'. with further accelaration it changes but this is not always possible in close traffic. i can select 3rd however this defeats the purpose of auto. Has anyone else had this problem? I am concerned about damage to either the engine or gearbox.
My CRDi Auto does do the same thing, but i do get reasonable power out of the engine that i really don't need to accelerate too much more in urban conditions. It will change down to 3rd if you give it more pedal going up steep hills, my impression is not that it is labouring but more taking it easy. I don't feel any really shuddering but do hear the low drone of the engine (sound like me getting up at 6am on a sunday morning). Power at 1500 is pretty good for me when driving and gets better all the way up to 3000 and if i need a kick i just push the pedal a bit more.
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Looking at the power/torque graph for the motor the torque comes on strong at 1500rpm, the ramp up being quick/very steep. The peak power is at about 2750 rpm so there would seem to be no point in letting the revs go above this.
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The peak power is at about 2750 rpm so there would seem to be no point in letting the revs go above this.
Yeah gets a good surge going between 2500 & 3000 revs :D
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The peak power is at about 2750 rpm so there would seem to be no point in letting the revs go above this.
Lorian, I think peak TORQUE comes up at that rev point, peak POWER comes at 4,000rpm.
Still, once the torque's past peak... power is meaningless.
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Well i have been paying more attention to how my motor pulls at different rev's in different gears, like LDL i notice its less fussed in any gear but 5th then it likes to be 1,500 rev or more, but in all the lower gears will happily pull 1,000 up.
thought i would try to describe the difference between power & Torque, Torque is Quick, Power is speed, so if you have more power you can possibly go faster, but with more Torque you get there quicker thats why you feel the push back into the seat from 1,900 up if you put your foot down with diesel and falls off about 3,000.
the older she gets the better she gets.
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the older she gets the better she gets.
and the car???
Another thing about torque and power (as I understand it from the internet!)
Torque is measurable...
Power is derived... like this.....
Power (kW) = (Torque (Nm) x RPM) / 9549 or
Power (hp) = (Torque (lb/ft) x RPM) / 5252
Which is why Petrol engines usually have more Power than the diesels... the torque arrives at a MUCH higher RPM in the petrols and therefore, in the above formula's, makes a MUCH higher numerator in the fractions on the right side of the equations.
It's been said that: They sell Power; You drive Torque.
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the older she gets the better she gets.
and the car???
Another thing about torque and power (as I understand it from the internet!)
Torque is measurable...
Power is derived... like this.....
Power (kW) = (Torque (Nm) x RPM) / 9549 or
Power (hp) = (Torque (lb/ft) x RPM) / 5252
Which is why Petrol engines usually have more Power than the diesels... the torque arrives at a MUCH higher RPM in the petrols and therefore, in the above formula's, makes a MUCH higher numerator in the fractions on the right side of the equations.
It's been said that: They sell Power; You drive Torque.
Do remember tho that power does matter, as its the speed at which the force is delivered. A bulldozer has bags of torque, but only moves slowly, on the other end of the scale, a rotary engine has lots of power, but buggerall torque. Power is the speed at which work can be done. A good measure I think is the area under the power curve.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_band (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_band)
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LDL, are you a rotary man?
very complicated to really explaine power, it's more to do with the quality of the power. also just knowing what HP or KW a motor makes @ the flywheel from a test on a similar motor and the factory does not realy tell you much. that's why i look at what Torque the same motor puts out & at what rev it starts making the Torque at and how long it holds the Torque for. like diesel's make Torque early but it also falls off early so waist of time reving a diesel.
I have used Dyno's over the years and then have gone to the track and raced the same motor and got a computer time slip to show how long it took to cover the first 60ft, then how long to cover the first 330ft then 660ft and what speed i was doing @ 660ft the 1,000ft them quarter mile and what speed after quarter mile.
sometimes i would tune for all out power. i would go to track and all i saw was i got to a higher speed at end of a quarter mile but i did not get to the speed in a shorter time span took me just as long to cover quarter mile as it did with less HP.
then i would go back and instead of just going for all out HP and runing the graph on a RPM i would do a timmed Dyno run where the dyno times how long it took to make so much HP & so much TQ. i would just give it three pulls on the dyno to get a base line reading as i last raced with but timmed, then i would make adjustments to the tune to see if i could get more TQ & more HP to come in at less than 4seconds wide open throtle if i saw a big gain in HP & TQ in less than 4 seconds WOT compared with my last tune but in total less HP than i now had but not timmed HP. i would go to the track and do a quicker time and faster half track speed. so i put this down to Quality of the power and TQ.
hard to explain cheers
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are you a rotary man?
Does anyone remember the wankle engine?
(The engine was invented by German engineer Felix Wankel)
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Does anyone remember the wankle engine?
Yeah I remember those.. oh, wait...
Engines??
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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LDL, are you a rotary man?
very complicated to really explaine power, it's more to do with the quality of the power. also just knowing what HP or KW a motor makes @ the flywheel from a test on a similar motor and the factory does not realy tell you much. that's why i look at what Torque the same motor puts out & at what rev it starts making the Torque at and how long it holds the Torque for. like diesel's make Torque early but it also falls off early so waist of time reving a diesel.
I have used Dyno's over the years and then have gone to the track and raced the same motor and got a computer time slip to show how long it took to cover the first 60ft, then how long to cover the first 330ft then 660ft and what speed i was doing @ 660ft the 1,000ft them quarter mile and what speed after quarter mile.
sometimes i would tune for all out power. i would go to track and all i saw was i got to a higher speed at end of a quarter mile but i did not get to the speed in a shorter time span took me just as long to cover quarter mile as it did with less HP.
then i would go back and instead of just going for all out HP and runing the graph on a RPM i would do a timmed Dyno run where the dyno times how long it took to make so much HP & so much TQ. i would just give it three pulls on the dyno to get a base line reading as i last raced with but timmed, then i would make adjustments to the tune to see if i could get more TQ & more HP to come in at less than 4seconds wide open throtle if i saw a big gain in HP & TQ in less than 4 seconds WOT compared with my last tune but in total less HP than i now had but not timmed HP. i would go to the track and do a quicker time and faster half track speed. so i put this down to Quality of the power and TQ.
hard to explain cheers
Lakes, I'm not a rotary man at all, they have their place as a derivative of the internal combustion engine, I've heard you can rebuild one with a 12mm spanner and a wheel brace, but they are not my cup of tea. Apex seals, peripheral ports - too much like black magic to me. But they are perfect to use as an extreme of my power vs torque example.
I understand exactly what you are talking about with the engine tunes.... I think what you are talking about is pretty much the same as what I was saying about the area under the power curve ?? :question:
are you a rotary man?
Does anyone remember the wankle engine?
(The engine was invented by German engineer Felix Wankel)
Mazda still make them today - in the RX-8 Renesis engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Wankel_engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Wankel_engine)
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LDL, i'm the same, i have never worried much about them.
my brother in law sold them new at one time and gave me a drive of some, they reved high but no TQ, also as they work something like a two stroke almost, they were never good for economy. if they were more fuel efficent they might have become more popular as simple design and very light.