[FatBoy]

Given his string of convictions, what was this looney still doing loose on our streets? I don't get it.

It is because we don't have a Justice System, we have a Legal System.

[Surferdude]

Given his string of convictions, what was this looney still doing loose on our streets? I don't get it.

It is because we don't have a Justice System, we have a Legal System.

Run by do-gooders who care more about rehabilitating the perpetrator than helping the victims.
The do-gooders include most judges, magistrates and lawyers, not to mention Terry O'Gorman. 

[Aussie Keith]

It will be interesting to see what can be learned from this mess.

Hopefully they can rein in this unhelpful lot next time: Media coverage of Sydney siege shameful

[Surferdude]

It will be interesting to see what can be learned from this mess.

Hopefully they can rein in this unhelpful lot next time: Media coverage of Sydney siege shameful

Especially Ray Hadley. 

[Doggie 1]

Given his string of convictions, what was this looney still doing loose on our streets? I don't get it.

My thoughts exactly, Gonz.

And mine.
Accessory after the fact to the murder of his first wife who was thrown down the stairs and set alight.
Should have been dealt with properly then.

[Dazzler]

It will be interesting to see what can be learned from this mess.

Hopefully they can rein in this unhelpful lot next time: Media coverage of Sydney siege shameful

Great article (that is exactly my thoughts about the whole media circus) 

[Aussie Keith]

In discussions today with my overseas colleagues around the world they are all expressing alarm over the "terrorist attack" on the coffee shop. Coffee shops of course are well known as high value terrorist targets. 

The story of a random nutcase with a gun is far less newsworthy it seems.

[Phil №❶]

Sorry, but some people are going to disagree with me, on this topic.

AFAIC, the shot should have been taken at the 1st opportunity. Kill him and let him go searching for his virgins. No demands, no talk, no public broadcast of images, just a quick death.

These extremists have shown that negotiations only work one way, their way, let's not play their game.

A great amount of media coverage has been displayed recently about taking innocents at random and beheading them in Australia, provoking horror among ordinary people, has not the same inevitable result occurred to 2 innocents simply using a different method.

My thoughts go to everyone affected by yesterday's events, particularly the little children who have to fathom out what happened to their Mum.

[Surferdude]

Phil, I can see a number of problems with that approach.  Whilst I would be just as willing as you to see him taken out,  in the early stages,  no one was sure how many gunmen there were. 
Reports listed two for quite some time.  Even after that  when some people manged to escape,  there was no guarantee that he didn't have explosives on him.

 

[Doggie 1]

That's the only reason I would have problems with that.
He may have been wired and everyone might have been killed if a sniper had taken him out.
I'm sure the experts would have considered all options and they would have chosen to do what they did for very good reasons.
As soon as the shot was heard from within the cafe, plan B kicked into action.
The welfare of the hostages would have been paramount.

[neptune]

. Dunno if I could have held on 13 hours without at least trying to take him down.

I am with you here

[CraigB]

 

[Aussie Keith]

He wasn't an extremist Phil, he was a person with a mental illness and a gun. He espoused radical views and yet he was not affiliated with any groups. They actively disowned him I hear. He was known to be violent and irrational, possibly a manifestation of his mental state rather than an association with his particular political views.

It is reported he was Muslim but this is of no consequence. Martin Bryant was not a Muslim and look at the havoc he caused. This is a tragically similar incident in many respects. There is absolutely no reason to bring race or religion into this discussion - its not a factor. The media have done a great disservice to the nation in this respect. 

They need to learn some restraint with the manure they spread. Its powerful stuff.

[neptune]

I might be old school, but like other people on here who have served their country  and the thousands upon thousands who have served and given their life to keep this country free as it is, I have no hesitation of taking this clown out or any other who wants to change what we fought for. They keep forgetting that we fought for this country, they didn't and we as Australians will always band together to keep these insurgents out...that is the Australian way.......

[FatBoy]

Yet the two most recent active service people on this forum, who have both served in the Middle East; and an ex-Policeman, say that what the NSW Police did in this instance was correct.  They didn't know what he had.  Did he have a "dead man's switch" attached to an explosive device?  Did he have people on the outside waiting to explode devices if he died (BTW, he claimed he did)?  Could the police have a "clear shot" at the person?  The building was an ex-bank, with thicker glass.  What does a bullet do when it hits something?  It tumbles and doesn't follow the intended path.  THIS WASN'T A MOVIE!!!

Google the demands that he made (you can find them with a brief search), and see what the Police were dealing with. 

20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

[AlanHo]

It is reported he was Muslim but this is of no consequence. Martin Bryant was not a Muslim and look at the havoc he caused. This is a tragically similar incident in many respects. There is absolutely no reason to bring race or religion into this discussion - its not a factor. The media have done a great disservice to the nation in this respect. 

Let us not overlook the fact that he obtained and displayed an ISIS flag for all to see - presumably to emphasise he was a supporter of the brutal ISIS caliphate..

[FatBoy]

It is reported he was Muslim but this is of no consequence. Martin Bryant was not a Muslim and look at the havoc he caused. This is a tragically similar incident in many respects. There is absolutely no reason to bring race or religion into this discussion - its not a factor. The media have done a great disservice to the nation in this respect. 

Let us not overlook the fact that he obtained and displayed an ISIS flag for all to see - presumably to emphasise he was a supporter of the brutal ISIS caliphate..

But it wasn't an ISIS flag.  One of his demands was an ISIS flag.

It was a piece of cloth with the Arabic words "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is His prophet."

[The Gonz]

Are you in that picture?

[beerman]

The words Arse Clown are under utilised in modern journalism.....But I would point out that if people didn't watch the constant news coverage, the networks would soon get the message (but I suspect they get to fill their screens cheaply using staff they already have at their disposal and are already paying).

There are plenty of things that could have been done differently, would they have had a different result, no one will know. The point about the sniper is really mute because by the time the appropriate team got into position, the hostages were barricading the window.

 What I do know is by attempting to negotiate, numerous hostages were able to escape the stronghold. As soon as the situation changed and the hostages lives were materially threatened, they went in, armed with a plan, intelligence of the lay out of the inside of the building and less hostages who could be caught in the crossfire.

[Surferdude]

It is reported he was Muslim but this is of no consequence. Martin Bryant was not a Muslim and look at the havoc he caused. This is a tragically similar incident in many respects. There is absolutely no reason to bring race or religion into this discussion - its not a factor. The media have done a great disservice to the nation in this respect. 

Let us not overlook the fact that he obtained and displayed an ISIS flag for all to see - presumably to emphasise he was a supporter of the brutal ISIS caliphate..

But it wasn't an ISIS flag.  One of his demands was an ISIS flag.

It was a piece of cloth with the Arabic words "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is His prophet."

Media misreporting again. Most reports around the world  identified it (incorrectly) as an ISIS flag.
BTW. One of the hostages early in the piece texted that she was being held by an ISIS gunman so it's quite possible he identified himself to the hostages as such.

[The Gonz]

Sad that any madman with a gun or bomb is automatically a terrorist.

[Surferdude]

This link is an interesting and IMHO a well balanced read. The guy is a Macquarie University (Sydney) lecturer..

The Narrative Must Shift: Randa Abdel-Fattah On The Need For A New Conversation | newmatilda.com

The first comment by one Iain Hall isn't typical of the following comments but it demonstrates exactly what true Muslims face every day in Australia - and many other parts of the world.

[Phil №❶]

Sad that any madman with a gun or bomb is automatically a terrorist.

His purpose in that shop yesterday, was to inflict terror on the poor unfortunates, which he did, mad or not.

With the police record he had and if he was insane, the public streets were not the place for him.

[The Gonz]

I'm in full agreement. Hence my original question: why on Earth was he loose? I hope attention turns to the overly liberal legal types. As Jamie said, we have a legal, not justice, system, and I know from personal experience as an expert witness that the courtroom process has little to do with truth.

[Shambles]

I can see this whole episode being repeated. Soon. By certain groups who might see it as a "victory"...

[beerman]

I'm in full agreement. Hence my original question: why on Earth was he loose? I hope attention turns to the overly liberal legal types. As Jamie said, we have a legal, not justice, system, and I know from personal experience as an expert witness that the courtroom process has little to do with truth.

It is unfortunate that the only people who have zero accountability over their decisions are those in the judiciary. The worst that can happen to them is their decision is overturned on appeal.....

[Surferdude]

I'm in full agreement. Hence my original question: why on Earth was he loose? I hope attention turns to the overly liberal legal types. As Jamie said, we have a legal, not justice, system, and I know from personal experience as an expert witness that the courtroom process has little to do with truth.

It is unfortunate that the only people who have zero accountability over their decisions are those in the judiciary. The worst that can happen to them is their decision is overturned on appeal.....

Dare we hope that the fact that their ineptitude has this time cost the life of one of their own, might make them more careful in their decisions?

[Doggie 1]

As I have stated on this thread, I believe the authorities were in the best position to determine the best course of action at the scene. I am sure that they acted with the hostages in mind at all times.
As for whether or not the gunman was a terrorist......
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
IMO he was absolutely a terrorist in every sense of the word.
As for being (just  ) a madman, he's not alone there in the terrorist world. They're all mad.
He identified himself as having an allegiance to ISIS during his reign of terror and he sought to further the terrorists' cause and he struck fear into the hearts and minds of ordinary, peace loving Australians.
Good riddance.

[FatBoy]

I will not mourn his passing.

He wasn't on any "watch" list as he hadn't been in contact with any ISIS people overseas or recognised Australian operatives.  I do agree that he was a terrorist though, in every sense of the word.  More likely a "lone wolf" as the authorities have said.

BTW, how many terrorists have acted in the name of atheism?  While not all religious people are terrorists, all terrorists are religious.

[Phil №❶]

Religion is a personal choice.

If your religion requires you to actively persecute or harm another person, or allow you to judge the worth of someone, religious or not, based on what you've been taught, you're most likely following the wrong religion.

And before anyone comments, this applies to Christianity as well. History is full of barbaric crusades in the name of religion.