[Medic01]

anyone read the latest hot4's ?
there is a write up about the turbo i30's and some stuff that Martin Donnan has done to extract more power.

[Shambles]

Hey medic01

What's a hot4? Got a link?

Cheers

What's a hot4? Got a link?

Shambles,

I think it is an Aussie motoring magazine.

Bob

Edit
Found the link to the magazines website http://www.hot4s.com/

[Shambles]

Thanks Bob. I'll have a look later as I'm at work. Ah, sod it, here we go....

[I30Racer]

Hi Medic01,

I will be also take a look after work.I´m really interested to extract more power of my baby

[Shambles]

I can't find any review on that website. Some bonny girls tho  

Shambles Wrote:

I can't find any review on that website. Some bonny girls tho

Your not blind.  It isn't posted.  I only gave you the url so you could figure out what Hot4 was.
Sorry for the confusion.
Pleased you got something worthwhile from your browsing.

Bob

[Shambles]

Cheers Bob - I sure got some *ahem* enjoyment from the *ahem* pictures of *ahem* cars on that website. Cough.

Cheers Bob - I sure got some *ahem* enjoyment from the *ahem* pictures of *ahem* cars on that website. Cough.

Going out in a while Sham.  Shall try to get a copy of the mag.  Will scan for you if I can.

No, not the pics, the tuning article - don't get too excited.      

Bob

[Medic01]

yeah, hot4's is a magazine.
one of the better ones for 4cyl cars. they gave the i30 a good wrap and praised it.

the write up was good, but it showed that the main problem with tuning the i30 was the computer and the restrictions that the stock ECU had on the system.
e.g they unbolted the muffler thinking to see some power gains on the dyno, and all they saw was 1kw.
that could have been from anything, the dyno wandering etc..

but when they cracked the computer and played with the maps / boost pressure and fuel they managed to get 17kw or so. and still keep good economy.

so the trick is to play with the stock ECU, then add the bolt-ons like intercoolers and exhausts.

according to hot4's, this is just the beginning for the i30
i'll try to scan it up later on for everyone.

[Medic01]

some pics to get started, not very good quality but.



the thing to note is that if you want your ECU cracked and re-tuned, you need to contact
DW Tuning, -08 83410400
www.dwtuning.com.au

[nizzkid]

Can you scan it again
Just the second 2 pages, the writing is a little too small to read.

For those who came late to this forum, you may not be aware that Martin (the author of the article and a part owner of DW Tuning) posted extensively on our forum when he DW Tuning was working on reprogramming the i30 CRDi ECU.  Some members had differences of opinion with him over some of his findings as I recall.

Here's a link to the main post, but you can find other references.

http://www.i30ownersclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=633&start=40&st=0&sk=t&sd=d&hilit=Martin

Bob

[Tylenol]

Wow... reading the tiny print in the article has surprised me!

It says that in stock form the CRDi can do 0-100kmh in 9.8 sec! I am sure that Hyundai listed it somewhere at over 11 seconds... that's a much better figure.

[Shambles]

Wow... reading the tiny print in the article has surprised me!

It says that in stock form the CRDi can do 0-100kmh in 9.8 sec! I am sure that Hyundai listed it somewhere at over 11 seconds... that's a much better figure.

Believe it brother!

I have a different (and much cheaper) tuningbox fitted and I now drive a slick, smooth, cheaper-to-run, i30 diesel which has so much torque you would not believe it.

[Lakes]

Steve Shambles, i'm sure you do m8!
just posting to say after years of racing and checking lap times, also Drag racing and checking computerized time ticket read outs that tell me how quick reaction time was, how long it took to cover the first 60ft, how long it too to cover first 330ft, then 660ft, then 1,000ft, also what speed i got to @ 1/8th mile distance. then how long it took to cover standing quarter mile and what the trap speed was.
i can honestly tell you there is no way you will do back to back identical times first time you try. so to me what a journalist puts to paper is just BS. but you all seem to think that just because so and so said your car can go from 0 to 100k in so many second. if you put your foot down from the lights. or from a stand still you car will be @ 100k in that many seconds. but i'm telling you here and now it won't. but why would you think thats a good comparition of a car's performance?
did you know the shift point that you shift at or how quick you can shift gear can make a big difference in how long it would take.
I just like to tell the truth so people know and understand how it is in the real world.
like they say, Talk is cheap.

[Rubix]

For those who came late to this forum, you may not be aware that Martin (the author of the article and a part owner of DW Tuning) posted extensively on our forum when he DW Tuning was working on reprogramming the i30 CRDi ECU.  Some members had differences of opinion with him over some of his findings as I recall.
...
Bob

so to me what a journalist puts to paper is just BS ... like they say, Talk is cheap.

Did Lakes just happen to be on the anti-Martin side? Lol.

I agree, Lakes, with the many variables point, but 1 second better is quite a long time. If it was 1 second slower, I'd put it down to driver error, 1 second faster and I'd have to put it down to improvements of some sort.

[Lakes]

Rubix, all i asked Martin is if he could show me a timed dyno run, where instead of useing RPM you use seconds the throtle was wide open. and he did not like me asking that.
i'm not for or against him as i did not even know he existed i'm not normally the type to use a turbo, or read fast 4's.
but everyone to what turns them on.
i would have to agree 1 second difference is a big difference to 100k. but i never checked any performace claims on the i30 CRDi, as i'm not interested i did not buy it to race.
cheers m8

[Rubix]

I see nothing has changed around here...

What does that mean?

[Dazzler]

I see nothing has changed around here...

There is very little negative comment on here really (if that is what you are thinking)

Were you a member in another life 

[Martin]

Rubix, all i asked Martin is if he could show me a timed dyno run, where instead of useing RPM you use seconds the throtle was wide open. and he did not like me asking that.

Because it is essentially and wholly stupid, unless you have an old 'drum brake' style 1960s dyno that cant apply load....as stated numerous times. Remember if you have $50 to spend on a dyno run, its better to spend it on food (was it Thumper that said that?)
Good to see its the same old same old happy faces around here, just surprised none of you guys have worked out the tuner box that everyone is lining up for is a variable resistor to trick the output of the Common Rail sensor.....$15 and a trip to Dick Smiths and its a DIY way of using more fuel. Go for a rotary pot to make it programmable! 
Theres our tip for you in 2009.

Its a good little car the i30 CRDi, enjoy it, especially getting the inside front to peel rubber through second gear corners 
Sorry I have been a little quiet here, we have been caught up plenty with development of our R35 GTR, so the i30 has had to take a back seat for a little bit....more soon though 

[Dazzler]

Sour grapes are not my favourite fruit... (let's just leave it at that...)  8)

[Shambles]

... just surprised none of you guys have worked out the tuner box that everyone is lining up for is a variable resistor to trick the output of the Common Rail sensor.....$15 and a trip to Dick Smiths and its a DIY way of using more fuel.

Good to see you back Martin

My consumption has improved since I fitted my gizmo, by about 4mpg. Torque in 1/2/3 is much more readily available. As for the VR in the box... I see more than just a pot in mine... I see quite a bit of electrickery

[Martin]

Sour grapes are not my favourite fruit... (let's just leave it at that...)  8)

Sorry! Was it when I told - and then showed - you guys that putting a 'sports rear muffler' on an i30CRDi was a waste of time? (zero power, just drone)
Or when that guy photoshopped in a picture of an intercooler into his car and told everyone he had done a custom front mount (that is an all time favourite) 
You have no reason to be sour other than ignorance or misunderstanding of what you were told.

And yes the tuning box is a resistor box, with an attenuated or 'clipped' signal (hence the circuitry). All it does is tell the computer that the fuel pressure is lower than it really is and cause the computer to enrichen OVERALL fuelling by a given percentage. Thats why it plugs into the common rail sensor....as its the fuel pressure signal that is tricking. Sorry, its not a magical fix, and since the fuel pressure is up the whole time, so will be the fuel useage. Thats just physics no matter how you try and bend it

[Shambles]

Thanks for that information Martin; your posts are always good to read.

Let's forget the tuningbox for the moment as there is another thread covering that

[Lakes]

Rubix, all i asked Martin is if he could show me a timed dyno run, where instead of useing RPM you use seconds the throtle was wide open. and he did not like me asking that.

Because it is essentially and wholly stupid, unless you have an old 'drum brake' style 1960s dyno that cant apply load....as stated numerous times. Remember if you have $50 to spend on a dyno run, its better to spend it on food (was it Thumper that said that?)
Good to see its the same old same old happy faces around here, just surprised none of you guys have worked out the tuner box that everyone is lining up for is a variable resistor to trick the output of the Common Rail sensor.....$15 and a trip to Dick Smiths and its a DIY way of using more fuel. Go for a rotary pot to make it programmable! 
Theres our tip for you in 2009.

Its a good little car the i30 CRDi, enjoy it, especially getting the inside front to peel rubber through second gear corners 
Sorry I have been a little quiet here, we have been caught up plenty with development of our R35 GTR, so the i30 has had to take a back seat for a little bit....more soon though 

Hi Martin, happy new year.
well mate i know were there is an engine Dyno, here in NSW that use's water wheel controled load, and computerised, it can time load runs or use RPM and has a lot more tuning info than that. if i get down SA this year like the GF is planing, i'll bring video's and print out from this dyno and look you up to show you.

[Lakes]

Martin, i just read what you posted about the tuning box. i don't have one.
but about twenty years ago i saw a guy use that idea to confuse the ecu into putting more fuel in,on a petrol motor, and testing on an engine dyno, he used something he got for a few $ at tandy.
back to the tuning box, i think it turns up fuel pressure and as the fuel is under more pressure it would atomize better, so should burn more compleat but i'm just guessing.
A friend of mine in Tenn USA use's something similar on a 1.9 TDI Jetta, he tested it on one of those happy Dyno Dynamic Dyno's ( i was surprised they used them in USA) he saw good gains in HP & TQ and got it up to 137MPH on the road tested with GPS . but he did not say if he used less fuel, but did say he  was getting 50MPG towing a trailer thats US gallion so would be close to 4.6L/100K
i'm not for or against your tune or this power box.

[Thumper]

Wow, nice of you to throw my name in here, Martin.

Remember if you have $50 to spend on a dyno run, its better to spend it on food (was it Thumper that said that?)

Actually, why waste the money on a dyno run when side by side comparisons with six vehicles, all at the same time, on the same road show a significant improvement.

Good to see its the same old same old happy faces around here, just surprised none of you guys have worked out the tuner box that everyone is lining up for is a variable resistor to trick the output of the Common Rail sensor.....$15 and a trip to Dick Smiths and its a DIY way of using more fuel. Go for a rotary pot to make it programmable! 
Theres our tip for you in 2009.

*Looks at the USB cable used for programing, wondering just what that is used for*   

especially getting the inside front to peel rubber through second gear corners 

Sorry, I would rather better traction and better economy than just showing off with wheel spinning. I guess the V8 brigade like that kind of thing. Their money to waste, I guess.

Sorry! Was it when I told - and then showed - you guys that putting a 'sports rear muffler' on an i30CRDi was a waste of time? (zero power, just drone)
Or when that guy photoshopped in a picture of an intercooler into his car and told everyone he had done a custom front mount (that is an all time favourite) 
You have no reason to be sour other than ignorance or misunderstanding of what you were told.

Well, you must of done it wrong then, because there is no drone from a properly installed free flowing exhaust system on the CRDi i30. In fact almost everyone at the last meet could not pick a difference in noise during normal driving.

Free flowing system shows gains in economy, not power, but I guess your dyno also shows this (Or maybe not) 

And yes the tuning box is a resistor box, with an attenuated or 'clipped' signal (hence the circuitry). All it does is tell the computer that the fuel pressure is lower than it really is and cause the computer to enrichen OVERALL fuelling by a given percentage. Thats why it plugs into the common rail sensor....as its the fuel pressure signal that is tricking. Sorry, its not a magical fix, and since the fuel pressure is up the whole time, so will be the fuel useage. Thats just physics no matter how you try and bend it

And your ECU 'hack' increases power by ? 

Yes, simple physics, more fuel equals more power in a diesel engine.

Then again, we have found that "simply" raising the fuel pressure results in better economy, better power and a cooler running engine.

Six cars were tested, same day, same road, same engines.

Yes, I'd rather spend $50 in fuel, drive 1,000km to meet with other like minded people who enjoy meeting others in the open, bring their families and enjoy a country drive, good food, good company, then to sit in a shed watching a vehicle on the 'rollers'. 

[Martin]

Free flowing system shows gains in economy, not power, but I guess your dyno also shows this (Or maybe not) 

Correct. We measured back pressure in the exhaust, air fuel ratio coming out of the exhaust, boost pressure, power, and of course torque. None of these changed with the rear muffler on/off or replaced. If none of these changes the physical operating conditions of the engine havent changed making any gain in economy you have experienced a placebo effect.  An exhaust system is not a mystical Peter Brock polariser, there is actual equipment that measures the result of a muffler on/off, really

And your ECU 'hack' increases power by ? 

By the amount we posted using a vehicle power measuring tool to read the data. Its a chassis dyno
Really do we have to link the dyno graphs again?

Yes, simple physics, more fuel equals more power in a diesel engine.

Correct, and less economy. You cant put more fuel in without using more fuel

Then again, we have found that "simply" raising the fuel pressure results in better economy, better power and a cooler running engine.

Adding fuel to any diesel engine increases power as you have said, but it also increases heat. Every diesel tuner worth their salt from big trucks through to soft roaders and even econo-boxes uses an Exhaust Gas Temperature gauge to monitor how much fuel is enough for the engine. Heat is a by product of power, its a very basic law of physics - conservation of energy - that hasnt been re-written for the i30. So adding fuel increases power, increases heat and decreases fuel economy. It really is very simple and nothing new

Six cars were tested, same day, same road, same engines.

Testing cars side by side on the road for performance is not only foolhardy and illegal its also dependent on the drivers of the individual vehicles. Read some of Lakes posts, a slower shift or a lower shift and its all out the window.....

Yes, I'd rather spend $50 in fuel, drive 1,000km to meet with other like minded people who enjoy meeting others in the open, bring their families and enjoy a country drive, good food, good company, then to sit in a shed watching a vehicle on the 'rollers'. 

Good for you and no doubt you are a very nice bloke, but please dont argue performance when you have no intention of understanding or grasping the basic concepts and principles involved

[Thumper]

Correct. We measured back pressure in the exhaust, air fuel ratio coming out of the exhaust, boost pressure, power, and of course torque. None of these changed with the rear muffler on/off or replaced. If none of these changes the physical operating conditions of the engine havent changed making any gain in economy you have experienced a placebo effect.  An exhaust system is not a mystical Peter Brock polariser, there is actual equipment that measures the result of a muffler on/off, really

Yet you keep omitting details of power/torque shift in the rev range. Yes you keep saying that an exhaust change does NOT increase peak power, or peak torque, but you keep dodging the question about an increase to the baseline power/torque limits further down in the rev range.

Your dyno can graph this.

A vehicle with 100kw @ only 4000rpm will be much slower on the road, in real world driving conditions, than a vehicle that has 100kw from 1000rpm to 4000rpm. But, on the dyno, a operator will say that the peak power output is only 100kw, and remains unchanged.

Does a free flowing exhaust shift the peak power lower in the rev range? (Even when the ECU will artificially limit peak power overall)

By the amount we posted using a vehicle power measuring tool to read the data. Its a chassis dyno
Really do we have to link the dyno graphs again?

Not sure what you read when I asked how your ECU hack increases power, simple question really. Ok, to put the question in even simpler format, does your ECU hack increase fuel rate/pressure/timing and/or increase turbo boost pressure?

Correct, and less economy. You cant put more fuel in without using more fuel

Great, so we are in agreement that more fuel in equates to more power and less economy.

So less fuel would equate to less power but better economy. You would agree to that?

Adding fuel to any diesel engine increases power as you have said, but it also increases heat. Every diesel tuner worth their salt from big trucks through to soft roaders and even econo-boxes uses an Exhaust Gas Temperature gauge to monitor how much fuel is enough for the engine. Heat is a by product of power, its a very basic law of physics - conservation of energy - that hasnt been re-written for the i30. So adding fuel increases power, increases heat and decreases fuel economy. It really is very simple and nothing new

Yet in real world testing away from a dyno, this has been proven to be the oppisit.

Increasing fuel pressure in a CRDi engine does not equate to adding more fuel.

You of all people should know this.

Testing cars side by side on the road for performance is not only foolhardy and illegal its also dependent on the drivers of the individual vehicles.

Gosh, now where did I state that the legal speed limits where broken?

I guess driving on the road is now illegal in your books. 

Good for you and no doubt you are a very nice bloke, but please dont argue performance when you have no intention of understanding or grasping the basic concepts and principles involved

Hmm, maybe I don't have a grasp on certain aspects of mechanical operation, like yourself, but your assumptions of what I have performed, what I have found in testing, and what knowledge I possess makes one look very foolhardy!

I keep saying all along, I am not chasing outright power with the i30 CRDi (I already know how much power these little ones can make, as you would too if you even approached the black smoke limit) I am after outright economy.

I guess I do not know what I am doing, since I don't have a dyno.

This I will say, obviously I am getting something right since I use less fuel, have more power, better drive ability and have an engine that runs cooler with cooler outlet temps from the turbo.

It all boils down to this, I do not have a financial interest with the results.

End of story.