[Dazzler]

Hi Folks,

Got a bit of a shock when I rang my insurance Company (Allianz) today to advise my exhaust modification..The operator went all quiet then went away and talked to the shift supervisor for about 3 minutes.. when she came back said 'sorry, but you will have to find alternative insurance for your i30 we don't insure modified vehicles'  :cry:

Co-worker suggested I try APIA as over 50 and not working full time.. they refused me too due to exhaust mod. The guy was friendly but said ' their guide states bigger exhaust increases air flow and increases performance' he also said if I did it for economy I could buy something off ebay for about $20 with magnets in it that definitely saved petrol????

I managed to get replacement cover at same prices I was previously paying via local broker but it was a bit of a scare....

[EymaTeapot]

Bloody insurance companys :!:
Bloody oil companys

That feels better

[Dazzler]

Thanks for your support Eyma...

[Shambles]

Yeah thanks EymaPomLover  

[i30manUK]

Bloody insurance companys :!:
Bloody oil companys

That feels better

[eye30]

Bloody POMs

What have we done for you to blame us Poms for the company refusing you car insurance?

[Shambles]

Bloody POMs

What have we done for you to blame us Poms for the company refusing you car insurance?

I think those insurance guys are the relatives of the convicts we sent over there in the 1780's, to NSW  

[bikejockey]

A timely warning about mods to vehicles. If you make a change that may affect the Insurer's risk you have a duty to tell them - and as I don't think I'd be able to tell what would affect their risk I tell 'em everything!  

It's also worth noting that changes are no more acceptable if you think no-one will ever find out about them - you still have that duty. If you don't hold up your end of the agreement they may not hold up theirs.

Considering the discussion being held on another topic on this forum it's very interesting that an insurer believes that fitting a sports exhaust does indeed increase performance...

[EymaTeapot]

Sorry to all our wonderful English members for my comment about POMS.
I really dont have a problem with Brits at all, except for Ian Botham.
My father in law was born it England. He lived in Birken Head and moved to Australia with his family in 1957 when he was 8. He still has family on the Wirral.
As for insurance companies, I had a problem with my previous car. I put a set of 19" alloys on our 05 Sonta and the NRMA refused to insure it. We had only gone up 2 wheel sizes which is fine with the RTA and registering the car was not an issue. Like Dazz, we had 2 vechiles insured with the NRMA and while I had made claims, These were many moons ago and I had the maximum no claim bonus. We basicly told them where to go and shopped around for new insurance. They show no loyalty to their customers. Apart from car insurance, we also had our house and content insurance with the NRMA. Not any more! We shifted all our insurance over to GIO and have'nt had any dramas with them at all, they also turned out to be cheaper.

[Thumper]

they refused me too due to exhaust mod. The guy was friendly but said ' their guide states bigger exhaust increases air flow and increases performance'

Easy, just give them Martins dyno reports that show, without a doubt that an exhaust upgrade does NOT increase power.

It either increases power, or it doesn't. Someone make up their mind!  

Mine (AAMI) was fine with the upgrade, since I have shown them it's the same size piping as the original, and is in the same place as the original and still contains a muffler, like the original, is under the legal sound limit and does not interfere with any of the factory emissions on the vehicle. (Otherwise what would you do when you get a new exhaust made since your old one has rusted out? No factory exhausts for older cars. How does that compare then?)

Go back to your insurer and state it is NOT a bigger exhaust, it is the same size.

[Dazzler]

I went to a friendly local broker today and swapped over to a combined policy on both cars for only $2 a month more than my current 2 separate policies...

Allianz seem fairly hell bent on sticking to their underwriting guidelines.... But all's well that ends well...

Better get some benefit out of the exhaust on a long trip after this ....

[eye30]

My father in law was born it England. He lived in Birken Head  He still has family on the Wirral.

Your OK and my m8 EymaTeapot now I know your other half comes from good stock.
I live on the Wirral and travel 7 miles to work in Birkenhead.

If you want any views of Birkenhead i.e. where the inlaw came from or places he may have mentioned etc let me know and I'll send photo.

[Martin]

Easy, just give them Martins dyno reports that show, without a doubt that an exhaust upgrade does NOT increase power. It either increases power, or it doesn't. Someone make up their mind!  

Thumper, we test a lot, to national and internation levels (ie Euro III) and I can tell you now there is very little if any chance that the exhaust on your vehicle would comply with the outgoing ADR2800 series or incoming ADR83 drive-by noise tests which are mandated as part of federal legislation. Regardless of any of this, the fact that you have modified an existing part of the vehicle (exhaust) that is convered by an Australian Design Ruling (ADR83) and you have not proved compliance (certified testing and engineers report) means that you are clearly in breach of the DOTARS Federal Road Safety act and have a defectable vehicle that in the case of an accident will not be covered by any kind of insurance - read your insurance companies PDS and it will state that the vehicle must be roadworthy for a successful claim.

[Dazzler]

Thanks martin...

There goes any chance of flogging it off cheap if I decide I don't like it....

[Thumper]

Oh boy, here we go........

I show you properly measured scientific proof that your exhaust doesnt contribute even half a kilowatt to the output of your i30, and you consider the comments of a Cornjack who has probably never seen an i30 let along even know what a dyno is a genuine argument worthy of consideration  :roll:

Besides, as the upcoming ruling states

2.3.2.3 Vehicle with a manually-operated gearbox.
2.3.2.3.1 Approach speed.
The vehicle will approach the line AA’ with uniform speed such that either :
NA = 3/4 S and VA < 50 km/h,
or
VA = 50 km/h.
and within the specified range of +5, -1 km/h of that speed for each test.

As stated, and I have put in bold, uniform speed at 75% ESMP or 50km/h.

At these low uniform speeds, the i30 is NOT boosting to a point that the vanes in the VGT will be open enough to produce any form of noise above standard noise levels.

Regardless of any of this, the fact that you have modified an existing part of the vehicle (exhaust) that is convered by an Australian Design Ruling (ADR83) and you have not proved compliance (certified testing and engineers report) means that you are clearly in breach of the DOTARS Federal Road Safety act and have a defectable vehicle that in the case of an accident will not be covered by any kind of insurance - read your insurance companies PDS and it will state that the vehicle must be roadworthy for a successful claim.

As shown, it does indeed comply, thus be covered by Hyundai factory warranty and by my insurance company.

Martin, since I do not have a vested financial interest here, nor am I selling a product on this forum, if you wish to put facts and figures on a public forum, expect others to equally respond with facts and figures.

Oh, by the way, I am sure Hyundai would not honor any warranty claim whilst a modified ECU program in being used that has been clearly shown on the forum, by yourself, to increase power and torque by increasing boost pressure.

Thank you for showing us, and Hyundai Australia (Who I know for a fact read this forum very closely) your modifications, what they claim to do, and what is modified in doing so. Also thank you for showing us all that an exhaust change does not increase power.

Thank you.  

[Martin]

As shown, it does indeed comply, thus be covered by Hyundai factory warranty and by my insurance company.

Then why post the thread?  
Good news is that we are in discussion at dealer level to produce a limited number of 100kw/330Nm i30CRDis straight out of the showroom

[Thumper]

Hyundai factory warranty doesnt cover aftermarket exhausts, this I can assure you

So Hyundai Australia will not cover any warranty claim on an i30 when it has a aftermarket exhaust on it that doesn't increase power (By your own admission and testing)

Yet they will allow an increase in power and torque by an increase in boost pressure?

Ok, you've lost all credibility with me, now, after that comment.  

[encountar]

Sounds like the right way to go there Martin. Im sure alot of people would be put off by the loss of warranty if they used the performance pack. However, if it was secured through the dealer (and the dealer got their cut obv) then this would entice more people to take up the option, it may even allow full proper insurance as its all from dealer.
Only problem is whether the dealer can still get the proper parts from Hyundai as they may tell the dealer that the dealer must now fulfill all warranty for those cars engines & drivetrain from its own piggy bank.

[Martin]

So Hyundai Australia will not cover any warranty claim on an i30 when it has a aftermarket exhaust on it that doesn't increase power (By your own admission and testing)

It doesnt matter whether it makes power or not...you change the car away from the factory specification, you will be voiding the manufacturers warranty, or more to the point warranty will be at their discretion. It really doesnt matter what you think, its there in your owners handbook.

Yet they will allow an increase in power and torque by an increase in boost pressure?
Ok, you've lost all credibility with me, now, after that comment.  
Dealers can provide seperate underwritten warranty agreements on new vehicles, and have indeed been doing this for many, many, many years. I believe that this is how the dealers of these modified vehicles will choose to deliver them  

[Thumper]

Martin, simple fact is, two vehicles, one with a ECU remap and boost increase (Power increase) and a vehicle with a simple exhaust change that doesn't increase power and complies with relevant ADR's, both in at a dealer for warranty work. (Say, gearbox syncro issues)

As a dealer, and as Hyundai Australia, which vehicle would you not honor the warranty work on?

The one that has no power increase with a different exhaust?

Or the one that has a power increase with a remapped ECU?

It's up to the dealer to prove that the modification has caused the part/s to fail.

An exhaust that creates no extra power will not cause a gearbox to fail.

Yet a ECU remap and boost increase could cause a gearbox to fail, since extra stresses are being placed upon components, now.

If you wish to keep going on about "Factory Specification" with regards to the exhaust system, please show me where, in plain black and white, where these specifications are, for the rear of the i30 CRDi's exhaust system that are easily obtainable for the average motorist who is an i30 owner.

Once those are found, please then show me, and everyone else here how this now "Non factory Spec" exhaust can cause any problems with the vehicle.

Those of us who have fitted non-factory headlight bulbs (Bosch, Hella and the like) how would these change the warranty?

Those of us who have fitted non-factory floor mats?

Those of us who have fitted non-factory dash mats?

Those of us who have fitted non-factory window tint?

Those of us who have fitted non-factory tyres?

Even as absurd as saying those of us who have filled up with non-factory fuel?

I can not find anywhere in the owners manual where it states a certain brand of light bulb is needed. (Only wattage)

Likewise, I can not find where it states in the owners manual about what kind of exhaust system is needed on the i30, only to say it has to comply with relevant ADR's. (Which my exhaust does)

So, it's not a matter of of what I "think", it's a matter of factual information.

Increasing power will put extra stress on components. That is basic fact.

What is the difference in what I have done to the exhaust in regards to the power output of the engine, than if I placed a non-factory sticker on drivers door?

Neither increases power.

Neither goes against any ADR.

Neither will invalidate insurance.

Fact is a fact. You can't deny that.

[blawler]

Sorry I just have to but in...

I believe what thumper is saying, And feel free to correct me if I am wrong mate, His exhaust system would not affect any other system of the car, therefore not voiding any warranty. (Except of course a warranty for the exhaust in question, but that would be covered under the warranty of the installer of the exhaust)

Where as your Modification, which increases power of the car, therefore putting the engine, gearbox , brakes, drivetrain under extra stress, will void to warranty on parts that it may affect (see engine, gearbox, brakes, drivetrain)

As a dealer I would be well with in my rights to void warranty on a car that has had an engine power increase.

I beelive I may have read somewhere (also correct me if I am wrong here Martin) that you said your modification would be difficult for the dealer to notice. I beg to differ, an increase in power would be easy to notice as soon as the dealer took the car for a test drive. ANd a simple Dyno test would confirm the increase in power. Whilst they may not be able to pin point this increase, they can rightfully assume that something has been done to increase the power. And that this power increase is responsible for the failure and thus void the warranty.

Its my experience that car companys will jump at any chance to void a cars warranty. Its my policy that with every new car I purchase, I keep it stock until the warranty period ends. Then its all hell for leather. (My subaru being a good example.)

Anyway. Good luck with your modifications Martin. I have no doubt it does everything it claims. I just think the approach may need some fine tuning.

[Martin]

As a dealer, and as Hyundai Australia, which vehicle would you not honor the warranty work on?

Neither. Thats the answer black and white. Car companies dont give warranty money away, and as the owners manual states, modification to the cars Powertrain (and that includes the exhaust) voids warranty. Doesnt matter how touchy-feely they are when you buy the car, a dealership is a business, and while they get paid for waranty regardless, an inspector from Hyundai Australia would look at the car and give the nod whether its warranty or not (they wear the cost). You MAY be in for a rude shock

[trsc27]

With my new exhaust, wheels and DPchip my policy didnt change in price at all, AAMI still only wanted $438

[Blue]

Good news is that we are in discussion at dealer level to produce a limited number of 100kw/330Nm i30CRDis straight out of the showroom

Ok , there's a 6 month wait on the "normal" CRDi...   so I better order this now, 'CAUSE I WANT ONE TWO!

[reecho]

As shown, it does indeed comply, thus be covered by Hyundai factory warranty and by my insurance company.

Then why post the thread?  
Good news is that we are in discussion at dealer level to produce a limited number of 100kw/330Nm i30CRDis straight out of the showroom <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="" title="Cool" />

That's good news for Martin but any warranty issues would need to be absorbed at the dealer level, unless the dealer pulls a swifty on Hyundai Australia.

[ivana]

As shown, it does indeed comply, thus be covered by Hyundai factory warranty and by my insurance company.

Then why post the thread?  
Good news is that we are in discussion at dealer level to produce a limited number of 100kw/330Nm i30CRDis straight out of the showroom <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="" title="Cool" />

That's good news for Martin but any warranty issues would need to be absorbed at the dealer level, unless the dealer pulls a swifty on Hyundai Australia.

because that would be an extremely smart idea....

[ivana]

Sorry to all our wonderful English members for my comment about POMS.
I really dont have a problem with Brits at all, except for Ian Botham.
My father in law was born it England. He lived in Birken Head and moved to Australia with his family in 1957 when he was 8. He still has family on the Wirral.
As for insurance companies, I had a problem with my previous car. I put a set of 19" alloys on our 05 Sonta and the NRMA refused to insure it. We had only gone up 2 wheel sizes which is fine with the RTA and registering the car was not an issue. Like Dazz, we had 2 vechiles insured with the NRMA and while I had made claims, These were many moons ago and I had the maximum no claim bonus. We basicly told them where to go and shopped around for new insurance. They show no loyalty to their customers. Apart from car insurance, we also had our house and content insurance with the NRMA. Not any more! We shifted all our insurance over to GIO and have'nt had any dramas with them at all, they also turned out to be cheaper.

yeah i had problems with the NRMA with my old car. switched to GIo and not an issue since.

and another warning about insurers: someone i work with was involved with an accident. she had personalised prestige plates (her own plate number, and blue plates to match her getz) anyways rear end of her car was ruined. she put the car into get fixed, and got it back. with standard plates with her plate number on it. shes had an uphill battle with her insurer because they claim that the need to be advised of the colour plates on her car.

when i changed my rego the other week, and let GIO know about the plate style change so that if anything happens, they will replace those plates when the car is repaired.

[2i30s]

I'm with the r.a.c.v. and i told them about my 2" exhaust and my lowered springs,and they were fine about it.it didn't even cost me extra.