[Surferdude]

Got any questions about tyres?
Ask them here and I'll try to provide and answer - with reasons.
As with any part of a car, there'll be differing opinions on many things but the discussions should be healthy and, i hope, help you get the best from your tyres.

Hi surfurdule.

I'm the first! And, I must say this: I'm an ignorant about tyres!

My question is: how can I see if my tyres are directional or not?

Thanks in advance.

carib

[Mutley]

What brands and compounds have you had experience in using?

[Surferdude]

Carib,
Directional tyres have a tread pattern like an arrow head (or the bow of a boat). Have a look at the two pics in the other topic and they are both directional.
They will also have an arrow on the sidewall marking the "Direction of Rotation".
I'll pull up some pics later as examples.

[Surferdude]

What brands and compounds have you had experience in using?

Hi Mutley,
I'm assuming this question is directed at me, not at carib above.

There's no easy answer to this one.
Can we leave compunds for a bit and  I'll come back to it. In fact, it's probably best if I answer that part in the "Tyre Technology" topic. I'll need to spend a bit of time on it but the short answer is that compounds in commercially available road tyres are somewhat of an unknown quantity because they can vary in the same brand and model of tyre, depending on which factory they are made.

As far as brands are concerned, I spent 30 years with Goodyear, which means I also have experience with Dunlop, Sumitomo, Sava. Lee Conquest, Kelly and a host of sub brands, all now under the owrld wide control of Goodyear (although I think Dunlop has a bigger say in Britain and Japan).
Apart from that, as a tyre salesman you sell what the customer wants (provided they can convince you they "know" what they want. So you see pretty well everything else.
In particular, Bridgestone, Michelin, Pirelli, Conti, Cooper and Yokohama.
Plus of course there are numerous brands, many so far unkown, coming out of most Asian countries and India (where they still make large quantities of cross plies. )

Carib,
Directional tyres have a tread pattern like an arrow head (or the bow of a boat). Have a look at the two pics in the other topic and they are both directional.
They will also have an arrow on the sidewall marking the "Direction of Rotation".
I'll pull up some pics later as examples.

Thanks, surferdude.

Waiting for your pictures.

carib

[Mutley]

Thanks for that surferdude, yes the question was aimed at you

What tyres do you recommend for good wet and dry grip, low road noise and reasonable life? I don't like tramlining either!! My Dunlop Sports did that about 60% into their life.

I have used Dunlop Sport 3000A and Toyo Proxes 4 and have loved both for grip. Not a fan of Goodyear F1's....had an accident cos of them (not grippy enough in the wet). I hear the Dunlop sport Maxx is good. People rave about the Bridgestone Adrenalins but I hear they are a little noisy? The Bridgestone Potenza RE050 I hear are a good compromise for my conditions. Also hear the Toyo R1R's are very grippy.

I was very happy with my Toyo Proxes 4, very happy. Only thing I can think of that may affect my buying these for the i30 is that I had them at 42psi front and 44psi rear as this is where their optimal pressure was at. Don't really want them that hard in the i30.

[Surferdude]

Carib,
Directional tyres have a tread pattern like an arrow head (or the bow of a boat). Have a look at the two pics in the other topic and they are both directional.
They will also have an arrow on the sidewall marking the "Direction of Rotation".
I'll pull up some pics later as examples.

Thanks, surferdude.

Waiting for your pictures.

carib

OK some pics/ diagrams.
This first is a basic tread pattern (think it's the Dunlop Monza 200 but the Bridgestone RE92 is veruy similar). This type is favoured by vehicle manufacturers as a standard fitment on their "family" type cars. Quiet, smooth, can be fitted on either side of the car and roll in either direction. Which makes for easy rotation. This tread type does everything reasonably well and is economical to manufacture. It will generally give good mileage as it will be made out of a tread compound which is relatively hard.

Interesting this. One paragraph and I have introduced four topics for further information/ explanation. These being .....

1/Assymetric Tread Patterns
2/ Tyre Rotation - To do or Not To Do
3/Tread Compounds (including silica based ones
4/ Tread Wear Ratings.

This is gonna take a while. 



There are four schematics here. For now let's stay with the standard and directional patterns.



Here are two examples of how the basic directional pattern can be modified to provide different handling characteristics. The top RH pic is of a Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3. The bottome one is of the Dunlop SP Sport 9000. High Performance tyres like this generally feature a soft tread compound which will provide better grip/ traction in both wet and dry conditions. The trade off is that the wear rate increases dramatically (more grip = greater friction = more heat build up = more rapid wear.
The Dunlop pattern  has blocks which probably flex a bit more and therefore wear more quickly than the Goodyear. However, the Goodyear features a pattern which is designed to be more self supporting and the tread elements will hold their shape a bit better, the theory being for better mileage and actually better handling because the tread "squirms" less on the road, thereby giving a firmer grip and better feedback.

[Surferdude]

Thanks for that surferdude, yes the question was aimed at you
[b]Mutley, your post has too many questions in it Only joking. They are valid and interesting comments but they'll take some answering, so please bear with me.[/b]
What tyres do you recommend for good wet and dry grip, low road noise and reasonable life? I don't like tramlining either!! My Dunlop Sports did that about 60% into their life.
This is very complex. Let's answer the easy bit first. "Tramlining" or a tendency to dart around when the car should be tracking straight is the result of the tyre wanting to follow any imperfections in road surface. If it happened part way through the life of the tyre it was due to uneven wear, not the tyre's design. So this highlights the need for care of your tyres through balance and alignment at regular intervals. Most tyre retail chains in Australia these days offer "After Sales Service" if you buy in sets of 4/5. Generally the balance and rotation (this only if needed IMO) would be carried out FOC usually at 10,000klm intervals. And you pay for the wheel alignment. Just to clarify the above it's only the rotation which I'm referring to as only if required. You should certainly do the balances.

I have used Dunlop Sport 3000A and Toyo Proxes 4 and have loved both for grip. What type of car(s)? Were the 3000As on an XR6? They are a pretty good tyre. Haven't had much to do with the Proxes 4 apart from some feedback about road noise. But they have an army of followers.Not a fan of Goodyear F1's....had an accident cos of them (not grippy enough in the wet)A most amazing situation. I'd love to know all the circumstances to this. Also was it the original F1 or the F1 GSD3? Both have literally blitzed all comers in magazine testing in both Europe and Australia over the years. I've only driven on them in testing by Ian Luff at Oran Park Raceway in Sydney. On that occasion we had them squealing in the wet on the skid pan and a whole host of absolutely mad driving tyres dealers couldn't create a lose.. I hear the Dunlop sport Maxx is good. PPretty good on smaller cars I beleiveeople rave about the Bridgestone Adrenalins but I hear they are a little noisy? The Bridgestone Potenza RE050 I hear are a good compromise for my conditions. Also hear the Toyo R1R's are very grippy.

I was very happy with my Toyo Proxes 4, very happy. Only thing I can think of that may affect my buying these for the i30 is that I had them at 42psi front and 44psi rear as this is where their optimal pressure was at. Don't really want them that hard in the i30.Again, what sort of car? Shouldn't be necessary on a Hyundai i30 IMO.

Now, as to what to recommend for you. I can only suggest you take the time to talk to a couple of different tyre dealers and ask their recommendations. I can probably recommend a couple if you pm me with where you are in Australia. Also, if you were talking to me on the showroom floor I'd be assessing your age and apparent maturity whilst asking you things like what have you had before and how happy have you been with them (as above), then asking about your driving style, what you look for in your driving (distance per annum, city/ country ratio, car load (avge # passengers, tow bar) and so on. I'd also look carefully at your old tyres and assess how they were wearing which would give me a good indication of how you drive. If a sales person doesn't go through a process like this, move on. Also ask about after sales service offers.
Buying tyres requires compromise. Better grip = faster wear. Good wet grip doesn't necessarily equate to good dry grip. And ride can be compromised by your aspect ratio. Plus tread design has a big bearing on road noise.
Totally confused now? It's easier face to face.

[Dazzler]

Here's an interesting one Trev. We had 2001 Nissan Pulsar Sedan for about 4 years and after a couple of years we replaced the two front tyres with Goodyear Eco 3 I think they were (supposed to have Silica technology) anyway to cut a long story short.. the Wife hated the feel of them.. She said it felt like they were sittin on the road not gripping to it.. The rears were the original tyres (Bridgestone I think) so I switched them to the front and she was happy (as she was ever going to be.. )

Can you explain that??

[Surferdude]

Here's an interesting one Trev. We had 2001 Nissan Pulsar Sedan for about 4 years and after a couple of years we replaced the two front tyres with Goodyear Eco 3 I think they were (supposed to have Silica technology) anyway to cut a long story short.. the Wife hated the feel of them.. She said it felt like they were sittin on the road not gripping to it.. The rears were the original tyres (Bridgestone I think) so I switched them to the front and she was happy (as she was ever going to be.. )

Can you explain that??

There's not a Goodyear eco 3 although Continental have/had such a tyre.
There was a Goodyear that had a 3 in it but I can't remember the details. If so, though it was a lot older than 2001+ and wouldn't have silica technology, although if they were that old, their lack of feel would be understandable (hardened with age). Now I'll have to file away  to talk about tyre ageing and how to tell their manufacturing date.
There were also a few Goodyears being brought in from Asia around that time which were not rated for Australia. They are called parallel imports and were made for some of the Asian markets but bought by the container load by unscrupulous importers to be distributed in Australia relatively cheaply.  Most manufacturers have had the problem from time to time.
If you can confirm the tyre name more accurately I'll be able to offer more info.
Trev

[agentr31]

i was happy to get 10,000 smoke filled km from the falken ze326's and ze329's (when 326 production stopped) on my old car, then for rotation i would put the fronts on the back and get new fronts!! it was sick i always had new tyres on the front!

[Dazzler]

Hi Trev

I'll have to do some more research it would have been around 2004 when I put them on. They were brand new from a Goodyear dealer. They were definitely Goodyear and my M8 who works there said they were pretty good (the latest Silica Tehnology at the time) Although knowing me i wouldn't have bought them if they were more than say A$120 at the time... Pretty sure thet were Goodyear something 3's (if I find the receipt in my filing cabinet I'll come back to you!)

[Surferdude]

Dazz, there was an Eagle NCT 3, 70 series. Think it was made in NZ but it certainly didn't have silica technology. And it was very much a budget tyre.

Also, maybe the GT3 but it also didn't have silica although it featured "bubble blade" technology which was supposed to give similar benefits without the cost.
Pretty much a "fill-in" in the Australian range.

[2i30s]

trev,do you know where bob jane has his own tyre brands made.?

[Surferdude]

trev,do you know where bob jane has his own tyre brands made.?

The Bob Jane All Rounder was originally made by Dunlop in Australia, using superceded Dunlop patterns. Then some of the Old Goodyear patterns came into play with South Pacific Tyres (Goodyear and Dunlop in Oz) making them. In recent times, BJ has gone to Bridgestone for his house brand. Supposedly the Zenon is still made in Oz but as there are no tyre plants left here, I suspect he needs to update his information or he's got a big stockpile.
Now, I imagine his tyres are made in Asia. It's easy enough to find out. The country of manufacture will be on the side of the tyre - and may vary by size, depending on which aligned factories have manufacturing space to fill.
Bob owns  (or owned) the moulds so he can decide what goes into the tyre.

[2i30s]

im running a high performace version of the zenon and its made in malasia,noisy tyres. 

[Surferdude]

im running a high performace version of the zenon and its made in malasia,noisy tyres. 

How long have you had them on?  Are they wearing OK?
Or were they noisy from new?
Some tread patterns can be very annoying.
Or if the carcass is ultra high performance, they'll feed back every little imperfection on the road (in the supposed name of "responsiveness")

[2i30s]

they've been on for a little over a year now

[Dazzler]

Dazz, there was an Eagle NCT 3, 70 series. Think it was made in NZ but it certainly didn't have silica technology. And it was very much a budget tyre.

Also, maybe the GT3 but it also didn't have silica although it featured "bubble blade" technology which was supposed to give similar benefits without the cost.
Pretty much a "fill-in" in the Australian range.

Maybe it was the NCT 3     (Sounds like I might have been given a bum steer)

[Lakes]

Hi Trev, good adition to the sight!
what do you think of the stock tyres that come with the i30?
forget about noise! how do you think they are , like smooth rolling? grip in wet? are they a performance tyre or an endurance tyre?
I would like to know your thought's on the stock tyres as if you think, they are ok and the price is ok, if not could you recomend what you think would be an improvement in say, smooth rolling reasonable wet weather grip, also tough enough for aussie country roads ( cold mix with pot holes ). as i have 60,000+ k's up on my i30 now i have SLX wheels & tyres that have around 45,000k up. the original 15" steel wheel Kumho's had 15,000k (aprox) when i picked up the new set of SLX wheels and Tyres off a brand new SLX at a great price the SLX have the same Kumho tyres just 16" & lower profile, they seem about same just the car steers slightly better and slightly better feel at speeds with the SLX. but a lot easier to change wheels as can see the studs easy through the SLX wheels.
so to make a long question short, when my Kumho's wear out, what would be a good replacement?
I was also thinking about one of the low rolling resistace tyres, but Daniel was useing some and i think i saw him mention he was going to replace with something else. so i thought there must not be an economy gain there worth useing that type of tyre if Daniel did not notice enough to stay with them.
thanks Lakes

[Surferdude]

Hi Lakes.
I always tend to err on the side of caution when replacing tyres.
In short, if you have been happy with the Kumhos and they are still available, I'd go with them again.
My reasoning is this.
There are probably 100+ brands of tyres on the Australian market and many of them have several different tread patterns available in their range. Obviously many of these are no-name brands and you wouldn't look twice at them but there are probably still 20 or so options which can claim to be good value for money.
However, this still means that it is a lottery as to whether or not you'll like your new tyres better than the old ones.
Marketing, salesmanship and reputation can all have a bearing in your choice but tyres are the biggest compromise part you'll ever fit to your car.
Factors which people look for when choosing a tyres are things like

• Ride comfort
  Noise (quiet ride)
  reputation (brand)
  safety in the wet
  good braking ability
  price (or value for money - which is really a different thing)
  warranty
  after sales service
  looks (well down the list, unless you are a car nut )

The above aren't in any particular order, just there to give some idea what the tyre companies aim for when designing a tyre - then of course, the marketers get hold of it and present it in a different light

So, I generally only recommend an alternative if the driver has been unhappy with his previous set of tyres or that one is no longer available.
To get some idea of how difficult it is, log onto one of those sites where people can rate products (like tyres) and you'll see that there are as many "fors" as "againsts" for almost every tyre. This generally indicates the sales person didn't go through a proper process to determine what to recommend.


A couple of final tips.
Don't go for the absolutely latest tyre on the market which the salesperson says is the best thing since sliced bread. You need to have had it on the market for 6-12 months to get a better feed back on real world perfomance.
Ask questions of the salesperson. If they say they've had good feedback, make sure you ask what sort of cars they were on. Different tyres and patterns suit different cars and drivers.[/list]

[Surferdude]

Lakes, a bit more.
45,000 klms is excellent mileage out of 16" tyres. I'm assuming a 60 series.
My car has the 15" Hankooks on it. BTW. I believe (not sure) that Kumho and Hankook have a similar business link to Hyundai and Kia. Pretty sure it all grew out of the financial crisis Korea went through in the 90's.
Both these brands have been around for a long time now and seem to do things pretty well. One of the things i would consider is that, given all four companies are Korean, I expect there is considerable interaction between their engineers so it's reasonable to expect the tyres will be tailored at least a little bit to the car. (different with the European models of course).
In my experience you can get a better wet road performance from some tyres - generally more expensive - but maybe at the expense of wear.
When my Hankooks wear down I'll look at alternatives but that's at least a year or so away.
I rotated them at 9,000 klm, just measured them today at 9,960 klm and the ones which were on the front have 5 mm left (start at 8) and the rears which are now on the front have 6 mm left. I find them "predictable" in the wet. By that I mean the car retains its balance in corners. Not too much understeer or oversteer even when pushed.
They are noisy though.

[Lakes]

Trev, thank you for the fast reply, i was thinking the same myself. as at the start when i first got my car SX CRDi manuel i was very careful in wet conditions as was my first front wheel drive. but 60,000 and not one scare. it only ever broke traction if i wanted it to. i know it would not be the best performance tyre there is but, i don't think i got the i30 to go racing with more for  economy and range on a tankfull. but just what i personaly like from a car. if you finish up changing your tyres first and you notice a difference in feel and improved steering let me know. as it's always more enjoyable if you have improvement in feel and steering feedback. i think the diesel would need a few pounds more tyre pressure in the front than the petrol as the diesl motor is heavier.
and thanks for your advice Trev!
cheers

[diablo]

My car has the 15" Hankooks on it. BTW. I believe (not sure) that Kumho and Hankook have a similar business link to Hyundai and Kia.
I rotated them at 9,000 klm, just measured them today at 9,960 klm and the ones which were on the front have 5 mm left (start at 8) and the rears which are now on the front have 6 mm left. I find them "predictable" in the wet. By that I mean the car retains its balance in corners. Not too much understeer or oversteer even when pushed.
They are noisy though.

My i30 has Hankook K415 205/55 R16 fitted and they seem to work fine, even in the wet, despite being rubbished by many. I'm not a boy racer but take corners a little faster than many other drivers. I assume they are made in the new factory in Europe (Poland?) and may have a different compound than for other markets.

Noisy? Well yes I guess they are. Have partially solved that by fitting thick carpets in the car and the boot. If you ever drive with the back seats folded down you will notice the amount of additional noise you hear - vibration from the floorpan.

I may well get Hankook tyres when the time comes to replace them - though maybe not the exact same type.

[Surferdude]

^^^
That's a particularly good size. I had them on my Impreza RV and see them on Hondas too. Just seem to be nicely in proportion height and width wise for the rim.

[2i30s]

Trev,this may be off topic but I'm wondering whats the best way to store a set of new tyres. [still on steel rims and inflated] they are off of my hatch as i purchased aftermarket mags and tyres 100kms after i bought my hatch.I'm going to use the original tyres as a replacement on the wife's cw when she needs new tyres.I've got the set of 4 stacked on top of eachother in my shed.[stacked sidewall to sidewall in a pile] should i just sell the tyres and bye new ones when the time comes or is it OK to safely store and use them in a year or two.?

[clackerz]

I'm interested in this too.
However mine are still on the car but am looking into fitting a set of 17's to my i30.
I'd prefer to sell/trade the original rims/tyres around the same time (see wanted/sell thread) but if I don't I want to store them correctly until sold.

[Surferdude]

Trev,this may be off topic but I'm wondering whats the best way to store a set of new tyres. [still on steel rims and inflated] they are off of my hatch as i purchased aftermarket mags and tyres 100kms after i bought my hatch.I'm going to use the original tyres as a replacement on the wife's cw when she needs new tyres.I've got the set of 4 stacked on top of eachother in my shed.[stacked sidewall to sidewall in a pile] should i just sell the tyres and bye new ones when the time comes or is it OK to safely store and use them in a year or two.?

OK. First, I'd store them the way you have them, sidewall to sidewall but not at full pressure. I'm guestimating here but somewhere between 15 and 20 psi. Too high and you'll promote a certain amount of "growth" in the carcass.
Secondly, ageing of tyres has become more of an issue in recent years. There is some suggestion that tyres over 5 years old have a greater tendency to fail and most manufacturers now put a limit of 4, 5 or 6 years on their warranty.
If your tyres are going to be used and worn out within 6 years I don't see a problem. Any longer a projection than this and I'd probably go with the idea of selling them and buying new when you need them.
Thirdly, if your shed gets hot, it's probably not the best place for them as extremes of temps don't do rubber any good either.
Hope this helps.
Trev

[2i30s]

thanks Trev,its probably a good idea that i check the manufacturing date on the side walls.they could be a few years old when fitted.a member had his tyres almost fall apart and go Bald very fast and it came down to old stock on a new car .