i30 Owners Club

GOT PROBLEMS OR ISSUES? => DIESEL => Topic started by: Zhangster on July 06, 2009, 08:15:38

Title: Acceleration issues take 2
Post by: Zhangster on July 06, 2009, 08:15:38
Hi guys


I have lately notices my engine preformance is not what it used to be..   tbh i have since i got the car noticed that it could change preformance from each trip i go... but at the time i just though it was me goin crazy and it probably just was me getting used that kick it gives when u take off.

anyway.... now im sure its a issue...  its abit hard to describe it but ill give it a try..

when i notice the issue the engine is cold or hot does not matter.... same thing... but yet seems to be slightly worse when hot...  when i accelerate and goes though 1-2-3-4 and if u floor it nothing.... it takes revs pass 3000 and up.... if u wanna do so.. but it slowly gain speed up to 100km/h and if u r drivin at the highway and wanna go like 140 km/h which i wanna do :P   it gets there slowly... i dont feel any pull from the engine...it just slowly gets there...  where i mostly notice it is if someone pulls out at the highway at say 120km and i have to brake down and when he pulls back in and i wanna pass him... it takes ages to pass him.. it cant be right i got 116hp turbo diesel engine and a old opel kadett 1.4 petrol with 600.000km on its back nails me in accerelation.... it cant be right..  :rolleyes:

and then on other trips its just takes off like jet plane.... no lack of speed gain... it just pull like freight train..
i simply dont understand it...  anyway i took it to the dealer and let him run a test on it... no faults... then he dropped the bomb... r u sure its a 116hp engine u have in ya car?.. i went  :eek: what r u talkin about?  and he said... u can always see if u r have a 90 or 115hp engine in the engine compartment.. by the air intake valve.. if its controlled by a vacuum hoses.. its a 90hp and if its a 115hp its controlled by electronic control air intake valve.... i looked down and it was a vacuum hoses... my head started to spin.. WTF the dealer have cheated me ?  the mecanic said he wasent sure and he would call hyundai in denmark to confirm that it was true or not.... 15min after he returned and said it was  a 116hp engine and for a strange reason have made some with vacuum hoses ..apprently some of the first ones made in 2007...
oh well... i was releaved that i didt have to call the dealer i got it from and kick his ass but it still didt explain why my car is slow...  and since im only 2.500km from my 60k service i said we could look at it there unless it become worse.... and he agreed... he gave me a bell add and he think i should try it... he also asked me about where i get my diesel from ... and i have tanked diesel 3 different places after now and no changes..

so i dont believe its the diesel that is the issues..

i let u know if i get anything news...

cheers all

one puzzled dan  :eek:
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Shambles on July 06, 2009, 08:37:13
Very strange Dan, no wonder you are concerned.

Know what I'd do?  I'd disconnect the battery -ve lead for an hour and let the ECU drain down. It's something someone once told me, that if you let the ECU reset it will "learn" how you drive, starting from scratch.

Does that make any sense?
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Zhangster on July 06, 2009, 08:50:41
Very strange Dan, no wonder you are concerned.

Know what I'd do?  I'd disconnect the battery -ve lead for an hour and let the ECU drain down. It's something someone once told me, that if you let the ECU reset it will "learn" how you drive, starting from scratch.

Does that make any sense?

yeah it does... i have been thinking the same... tbh i think i let the dealer do so... as long i got warrenty on the car im not gonna fool around with anything... and again.. its their responsible to get it fixed.

im also have a theory its one of the sensors for the diesel... and maybe the intercooler...  but what do i know?
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: accim on July 06, 2009, 09:13:29
If you disconnect your battery it wont harm your car. Only the ECU will "reset". I would also take it to dealer and tell them to check everything out. The reason that it sometimes works great and next time not, is probably due to some sensor or ECU failure or something like that.. The engine probably gets wrong "signals" what pressure or amount of fuel/air/etc it has to pump the engine/turbine with and drives like that. At first I thought it goes to "safe-mode", but if you say you can drive over 3,000rpm, than that's not the issue here.

Please do write on the forum when they figure out what the problem was. Hope you solve your problem as soon as possible  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Zhangster on July 06, 2009, 09:19:54
If you disconnect your battery it wont harm your car. Only the ECU will "reset". I would also take it to dealer and tell them to check everything out. The reason that it sometimes works great and next time not, is probably due to some sensor or ECU failure or something like that.. The engine probably gets wrong "signals" what pressure or amount of fuel/air/etc it has to pump the engine/turbine with and drives like that. At first I thought it goes to "safe-mode", but if you say you can drive over 3,000rpm, than that's not the issue here.

Please do write on the forum when they figure out what the problem was. Hope you solve your problem as soon as possible  :rolleyes:

yup... i suspected as much... but for a strange reason the test of the car didt reveal any faults... so this gonna be tricky.... i do agree is something with the ecu or sensors but finding the problem will be tricky.
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Dazzler on July 06, 2009, 10:28:03
Hi Zhangster  ..

Try the battery thing M8 it can't do any harm as the others said.

I have worked with Electrical appliances for about 12 out of the last 16 years and it's amazing what unplugging them for a while can do to fix strange problems...
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Shambles on July 06, 2009, 10:52:15
^--- I agree.

Get it unplugged for an hour then see how you get on.
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: eye30 on July 06, 2009, 13:28:12
... then he dropped the bomb..... by the air intake valve..

if its controlled by a vacuum hoses.. its a 90hp and if its a 115hp its controlled by electronic control air intake valve.... i looked down and it was a vacuum hoses...

Me not being a techi any pictures of your vacuum hose so I know what I am looking for.

I have a sticker on the door pillar which say 115ps but I would like to check.

cheers.
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Zhangster on July 06, 2009, 17:00:23
^--- I agree.

Get it unplugged for an hour then see how you get on.


battery unplugged.... lets see what it does...   :eek:
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Shambles on July 06, 2009, 17:13:29
tick.. tock.. tick.. tock..
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Zhangster on July 06, 2009, 17:33:57
picture added

 :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Zhangster on July 06, 2009, 20:22:05
okay.... that sucked.... now my esp says its off... ignition off and on didt helped and pushing the esp bottom did not either...  :question: :eek:
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Lakes on July 06, 2009, 20:58:49
Sorry to hear about troubles mate,
but if you have indeed got a 90HP motor there is no way in the world unplugging the battery will turn it into a 116HP motor.
but unplugging battery then re conecting it will re set everything, BUT when you reconect on most any car now you turn on ignition, then turn off wait then turn on again and it's a born again baby :lol:
cheers
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Shambles on July 06, 2009, 20:59:25
okay.... that sucked.... now my esp says its off... ignition off and on didt helped and pushing the esp bottom did not either...  :question: :eek:

That's correct. Mine does the same. But the light should go off once you've turned the engine off, removed the key, then restarted.
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Zhangster on July 06, 2009, 21:57:49
sadly.... it dont shambles.. i tried it.. hehe  maybe after i take it for a spin it will switch off? :question:
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Zhangster on July 06, 2009, 22:01:07
Sorry to hear about troubles mate,
but if you have indeed got a 90HP motor there is no way in the world unplugging the battery will turn it into a 116HP motor.
but unplugging battery then re conecting it will re set everything, BUT when you reconect on most any car now you turn on ignition, then turn off wait then turn on again and it's a born again baby :lol:
cheers

hi m8...

the mechanic told it was correct i have 115hp engine.. he just didt know it was born with that vacuum thingy... but hyundai apprently made a few with the same configuration as the 90hp... just with 115hp.....
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Shambles on July 06, 2009, 22:17:31
sadly.... it dont shambles.. i tried it.. hehe  maybe after i take it for a spin it will switch off? :question:

Yes that should do it... I hope.

When I had my 2nd keyfob reprogrammed the dealer had cocked it all up and had to leave my beloved Fergie high and dry without juice for a few hours. When I got her back my ESP OFF light was on. After I'd driven her a while I stopped, removed the key, then restarted and she was fine.

I also followed some advice Thumper (god bless him) gave regarding removing the tuning box I fitted. Can't remember the exact advice but it was something to do with letting the ECU know when the box had been disconnected. After I'd removed my box I disconnected the battery and let the ECU calm down, but the ESP OFF light stayed on when I reconnected the battery until I'd driven for a while, turned off, removed key, then restarted,

Good luck Gangster
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Zhangster on July 06, 2009, 22:57:35
hi m8

just picked up my drunk girl friend from a town party (must have been at good one.. drunk no money left and she got a tatoo..wtf did i miss out there ?  :mrgreen: :lol: )... and it was on all the way there and back..  so i guess its back to the dealer tomorrow morning....  the car did feel as it old self... quick and responsive.. but i also have a theory that could be that the temperatures outside is cold...  = better condition for the intercooler.. = better boost....  ill see if there any change tomorrow morning when i drive it to the dealer..

dan the gangster   :lol:
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Shambles on July 06, 2009, 23:11:19
Ok Dan - good luck mate (with the i30, not with the drunk g/f, although......)
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: jasonw on July 06, 2009, 23:49:44
I'm not a car savy person but from reading and investigating how the diesel engines run etc, could it be that the turbo is not being used for some reason? An 85kw engine without a turbo would feel laggy and not have too much guts in it, could be that your turbo is being used sometimes but not always. Based on the ESP light though you may just have a banged up ECU as it will also control turbo usage as well?

Does that make sense?

Jay.
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Zhangster on July 07, 2009, 07:21:33
I'm not a car savy person but from reading and investigating how the diesel engines run etc, could it be that the turbo is not being used for some reason? An 85kw engine without a turbo would feel laggy and not have too much guts in it, could be that your turbo is being used sometimes but not always. Based on the ESP light though you may just have a banged up ECU as it will also control turbo usage as well?

Does that make sense?

Jay.

hi m8 

ehm...  well the ecu is the heart in the car...  so yes it could be that... and many other reasons... hehehe..  well tbh i do find hard to believe that it should be the ecu cuz if it is... i would probably have experiance other problems aswell.
the ecu light could be a simple matter of clear any faults with the dealers tester and im off again.. whats bothers me if i can reset the ecu and it all is back to normal... it tells me that it might be a sensor that periodicly is malfunctioning. and its only matter of time before it does it again... and when it does the ecu will adjust to the new condition...  the ecu is rather smart..  but again this is just a thought of mine.... now im off for work and dealership... hope he can tell me more. :question:

dan
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: accim on July 07, 2009, 08:01:25
picture added

 :mrgreen:

And what to most 116 hp engines have there? Could anyone post some pic? Thanks

Zhangster: hope they fix your car or at least tell you what the reason is :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Dazzler on July 07, 2009, 10:42:49

And what to most 116 hp engines have there? Could anyone post some pic? Thanks


From this thread of my motor looks much the same (too cold and dark to go out now ...) 

https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,2304.msg20893.html#msg20893
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Shambles on July 07, 2009, 10:50:07
I'll go take a pic of mine...


(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/i30/100_0782.jpg)

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/i30/100_0783.jpg)
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Zhangster on July 07, 2009, 14:14:14
hi m8

just picked up my drunk girl friend from a town party (must have been at good one.. drunk no money left and she got a tatoo..wtf did i miss out there ?  :mrgreen: :lol: )... and it was on all the way there and back..  so i guess its back to the dealer tomorrow morning....  the car did feel as it old self... quick and responsive.. but i also have a theory that could be that the temperatures outside is cold...  = better condition for the intercooler.. = better boost....  ill see if there any change tomorrow morning when i drive it to the dealer..

dan the gangster   :lol:


Hi guys

sometimes it seems that things happents at random... :)  but when i reversed out of my garage this morning.. the Esp off light... turned off...  :razz:

so i did not go to the dealership...  no reason really...    and the car did behave as it normally do... quick and responsive....   did take a trip to a shop ..  about 100km trip....highway all the way basicly.....  did take it to high speeds aswell... i guess if the cops been there i would lost my license a few times.... oh well   :mrgreen: who can say they never done that? hehehehe.. 

anyway... at the back home.. it started to acting slow again...  what i tried to notice was:  where i get the those dead spots.... and to me it seems if u go like 110km/h and u floor it and up to 140km/h it takes along time... this is in 5th gear... revs is 2200 and after it passed like 29-3000 its starts to get its ass goin.. from 140km/h to 160km/h dont take that long..  i hope this make sense to u guys...  i have tried to see how far i could do in 4th gear.. and it pass the "comfort zone" of rev (4000ish ) its about 140km/h.

when i had to get off the highway again.... i tried to see if i could rev it and get a quick start from 0 km/h...and it took off like a rocket.. if the esp wasent engaged it would have made wheel spin...  to me it seems like it has a dead spot in medium/high speeds.. like its not getting fuel enuff or something...


stupid car  :rolleyes:   :mrgreen:

drive as u should or dont drive at all :D hehehehe



Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Shambles on July 07, 2009, 14:27:51
In the UK we have a phrase..


Barking Mad




(and I don't mean the doggie in the window :lol: )
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Zhangster on July 07, 2009, 15:11:03
In the UK we have a phrase..


Barking Mad




(and I don't mean the doggie in the window :lol: )

who me? or the car ?  :lol:
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: eye30 on July 07, 2009, 18:45:52
picture added

[https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3453.0;attach=1121;image]

Vacuum, therefore 90hp not 115ps which you thought you had.

Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: eye30 on July 07, 2009, 18:48:48

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/i30/100_0782.jpg)

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/i30/100_0783.jpg)

Same as mine which is 115 ps.

I believe UK diesels are now 90 ps so the road tax is £35.00 per year.
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: eye30 on July 07, 2009, 18:57:28
Zhangster

On Hy Denmark's site it shows 2 models for the i30 comfort - 90 hk and 115 hk
and an i30 classic at 90 hk.
Check your sales invoice for model bought and if wrong get back to dealers and request the correct car.

Just remind me, apologies if you have mentioned model before, which model did you buy?


http://www.hyundai.dk/default.asp?pageid=12&nodeid={FB5A8E4F-1A42-4B4C-9499-919571334A89}&mode=specs





Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Zhangster on July 07, 2009, 21:09:36
Zhangster

On Hy Denmark's site it shows 2 models for the i30 comfort - 90 hk and 115 hk
and an i30 classic at 90 hk.
Check your sales invoice for model bought and if wrong get back to dealers and request the correct car.

Just remind me, apologies if you have mentioned model before, which model did you buy?


http://www.hyundai.dk/default.asp?pageid=12&nodeid={FB5A8E4F-1A42-4B4C-9499-919571334A89}&mode=specs








hi m8


my i30 should be a : hyundai i30 classic with 115 hp

dunno if u read all in the first thread i made... but my local dealership did call HY denmark to verify if my car was a 90 or 115hp engine and they said it was a 115hp even it have this vacuum thingy controlling the air intake....

yes i was puzzled... and still am... i wonder if there is a way finding out it on my own...?
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: accim on July 07, 2009, 22:40:19
I'll go take a pic of mine...


(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/i30/100_0782.jpg)

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/i30/100_0783.jpg)

Zhenster.. I don't think you have a 90 hp i30. If sometimes it goes well and than later not, it can't be that..? What if you try to measure how long (in seconds) it takes you from 110-140 kph (in fifth gear) when you think your car doesn't go well? And then, some of us will try to do the same.. Maybe your car is going ok, but it just doesn't seem enough? I don't know.. :neutral: 110-140 vs 140-160 hm.. 110-130 or 140 will probably go slower, because you start at lower rpm?

Shambles.. Thanks for the pics.. I just don't understand one thing.. What am I suppose to look at the pic?  :-[ As far as I can see it, I have absolutely identical look of the engine (and those parts that I think I should be looking at) and mine is 90 HP - well not anymore but still.. Thanks
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Zhangster on July 07, 2009, 22:44:42
hi again...

just looked in my registration papers... lots of useless infomations.. but i also found this... it says :

max effect of the car is: 85KW   which mean its a 115hp car.

anyway im gonna contact hyundai import in denmark tomorrow and let em take a look at it.

Though the dealership did call HY denmark for verification i wanna hear it from em first handed.


cheers Dan
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Zhangster on July 07, 2009, 22:49:25
heres what u should be looking at..  marked with a red circle

[deleted]
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Shambles on July 07, 2009, 22:58:38
Shambles.. Thanks for the pics.. I just don't understand one thing.. What am I suppose to look at the pic?  

See Zhangsters post, below yours and directly above this one :P
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: accim on July 07, 2009, 23:05:32
Well..I think I have the same in my i30 90 hp engine as you in your 115 hp. I have to check it in the morning once more. So that would mean, they've made i30's 115 and 90 hp with both versions? Thanks
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Zhangster on July 08, 2009, 06:37:41
I'll go take a pic of mine...


(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/i30/100_0782.jpg)

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/i30/100_0783.jpg)

Zhenster.. I don't think you have a 90 hp i30. If sometimes it goes well and than later not, it can't be that..? What if you try to measure how long (in seconds) it takes you from 110-140 kph (in fifth gear) when you think your car doesn't go well? And then, some of us will try to do the same.. Maybe your car is going ok, but it just doesn't seem enough? I don't know.. :neutral: 110-140 vs 140-160 hm.. 110-130 or 140 will probably go slower, because you start at lower rpm?

Shambles.. Thanks for the pics.. I just don't understand one thing.. What am I suppose to look at the pic?  :-[ As far as I can see it, I have absolutely identical look of the engine (and those parts that I think I should be looking at) and mine is 90 HP - well not anymore but still.. Thanks

hi m8
i see ur point in take some time readings and compare em. but what u suggest about that it could be the low revs does not make any sense to me becuz of:
Diesel engines power dynamic is lots of torgue at low rev and get less powerful at greater revs (Reason for that is short version: turbo cant deliver anymore boost pass certain revs and it flat out in the torgue curve.  where petrol just keep goin since it dont have turbo.  also the reason why turbo lag accur in really low revs.. its simple need the exhaust to drive the turbo before it can deliver any boost..)
petrol cars is the other hand less powerful at low revs... and better at high rev.  also one of the reason why petrol cars mostly r doin better top speeds than a diesel can... 

back in the days when diesel started to be used it was used as heavy load low rev engines such as power generators and these days trucks and much more.

atm i feel like my car atleast in high speed preform as petrol car... yet it dont have better topspeed :) mine seems to really pull from 2900 and up.


i hope this made any sense to u... :D

dan
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: accim on July 09, 2009, 22:40:35
Hello,

Yes my bad. I thought that at 100 kph the car had less than 2,000 rpm. Don't know why..that's why I wrote it has too low rpm and goes better later..

I've filmed acceleration of my i30 today from 100kph ++ (in fifth gear)

Originally it's 90 hp but now it has approx 115 hp. So it should go about the same as stock 115hp i30.

http://www.shrani.si/?0/XJ/2Hh8741p/09072009115.mp4

Good night
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Zhangster on July 11, 2009, 18:26:42
Hello,

Yes my bad. I thought that at 100 kph the car had less than 2,000 rpm. Don't know why..that's why I wrote it has too low rpm and goes better later..

I've filmed acceleration of my i30 today from 100kph ++ (in fifth gear)

Originally it's 90 hp but now it has approx 115 hp. So it should go about the same as stock 115hp i30.

http://www.shrani.si/?0/XJ/2Hh8741p/09072009115.mp4

Good night


hi m8

this is how it preform when i dont have any problem with it...

https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,3227.0.html (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,3227.0.html)


cheers dan
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Zhangster on July 13, 2009, 13:49:09
hi guys

just shot some movies clips me flooring it from the speeds im experiance the issues :

two movies same day and no restart of the engine...

http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c235/Hu_li/?action=view&current=13072009006.flv (http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c235/Hu_li/?action=view&current=13072009006.flv)


http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c235/Hu_li/?action=view&current=13072009007.flv (http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c235/Hu_li/?action=view&current=13072009007.flv)

at both clips im flooring it in 5th gear and the road is pretty straigth and no hils or it is unnormal windy..

what do u guys think?


cheers dan

Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: accim on July 13, 2009, 18:05:31
Hm.. I'm looking at my clip and yours and they seem kind of the same? When I compare 120-190 kph they are both around 34 seconds? The only difference I see is when you accelerate from 110 kph to a bit less than 160 kph. It takes you around 20 seconds and when I look at my clip it looks like it takes me around 17 sec? But I think it's about the same..? Don't know..

Which tires you have? I mean dimensions..?
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Zhangster on July 13, 2009, 18:18:50
Hm.. I'm looking at my clip and yours and they seem kind of the same? When I compare 120-190 kph they are both around 34 seconds? The only difference I see is when you accelerate from 110 kph to a bit less than 160 kph. It takes you around 20 seconds and when I look at my clip it looks like it takes me around 17 sec? But I think it's about the same..? Don't know..

Which tires you have? I mean dimensions..?

look at the second clip... its almost movin backwards lol...    i got 255/55 R16
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: Lorian on August 06, 2009, 19:48:14

Same as mine which is 115 ps.

I believe UK diesels are now 90 ps so the road tax is £35.00 per year.

According to the technical specs the UK 1.6CRDi models are now all 85Kw/113Bhp engines, thats certianly what I have ordered  :wink: 

Although I think this is actually a typo and its really 85Kw/113ps which is the same as 115bhp.

I read somewhere (maybe here) that the main change to get it into the £35 tax bracket was to raise the ratio of 3rd gear. 
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: accim on September 28, 2009, 20:36:21
Have you "fixed" the problem?

I've also noticed (maybe I'm just imagining but ok..) that after driving some 100, 150 km's (km's not kph) on the highway, the car goes better.. Like I said..I'm PROBABLY imagining, but I really feel that it does..it feels like it's more responsive (when you push the pedal it "reacts" quicker) and accelerates better.. Especially if you drive it with 3,000 or more rpm.. Especially after longer "city rides". Maybe the ECU gets used to "faster" driving or something..
Title: Re: Accerelation issues take 2
Post by: iThurT on September 28, 2009, 22:23:29
Lorian. Yes the UK spec. 1.6 diesels are all 115ps (113 BHP) and the £35 Road Tax qualification is due to a slight rise in third gear.
Title: Re: Acceleration issues take 2
Post by: Shambles on September 28, 2009, 22:31:11
Jees I only just noticed the typo in the title

"Accerelation issues take 2"

That won't help those using the search feature :lol:

*amended*
Title: Re: Acceleration issues take 2
Post by: Lorian on September 28, 2009, 23:09:20
Lorian. Yes the UK spec. 1.6 diesels are all 115ps (113 BHP) and the £35 Road Tax qualification is due to a slight rise in third gear.

Except of course for new car production its recently changed to a new engine, and a six speed gearbox without the hump in 3rd gear. Lot has changed in a month!
Title: Re: Acceleration issues take 2
Post by: Beekster on January 28, 2011, 15:07:41
Apologies for dragging up such an old thread, but I feel my observations & questions are relevant.

My CRDi now has 1000 km on the clock, and my observations of the throttle response have me somewhat perplexed.

In short, quickly flooring the throttle gives nowhere near as much torque throughout the rev range as feeding the throttle in, much as you are required to do on a normally aspirated car with large butterfly valve carbies.  (think Weber or Dellorto)

If you're hovering at about 2.2 krpm in second, well within the boost range, and feed in the throttle up to a bit over half throttle, you can ride the crest of the wave, and the engine will zip around to redline with really surprising enthusiasm.  Whacking the throttle fully open at the same revs gives less enthusiastic acceleration to a bit over 3 krpm, and it tapers off savagely with a sluggish pull to redline.  I have found this to be repeatable with a thoroughly warm engine.

My expectations of modern engine management would be more along the lines of full throttle, however quickly applied, giving you all the engine can at whatever revs it's at up to the point where the traction control kicks in.  With my CRDi, that is definitely not the case.

To the CRDi owners out there both stock, chipped, or otherwise modified, could you specifically try my above scenario and report your results?

For the time being, I'll make do with less throttle equals more go!
Title: Re: Acceleration issues take 2
Post by: AlanHo on January 29, 2011, 10:36:51
I gave my 2011 model 1.6 CRDi a test this morning - in each case accelerating in 3rd gear from 40 mph as a dummy overtake manouvre and confirm that I get a similar result.

Flooring the accelerator results in a noticeable  pause before the engine really kicks in whereas giving it half throttle and then steadily but quickly feeding more throttle as the engine takes off seems to produce a faster acceleration. I rarely floor the accelerator anyway - so it is not an issue with me.
Title: Re: Acceleration issues take 2
Post by: Shambles on January 29, 2011, 11:21:43
I wonder if the swirl motor needs more time to react than the fuel rail. Might look for more info on this "problem"
Title: Re: Acceleration issues take 2
Post by: Lorian on January 29, 2011, 11:35:19
Possibly more likely to do with the control of the variable vanes in the turbo affecting spool up time.

I can't say I've noticed this phenomena, but I haven't specifically tested for it.

I've not had my i30 near the red line very much, you are way out of the sweet spot for power delivery there, and in any urgent situation like overtaking it's always time to change up before you get there.
Title: Re: Acceleration issues take 2
Post by: Beekster on January 29, 2011, 13:04:44
@ AlanHo:  Thanks for your feedback!!  I feel greatly reassured that I'm not completely mad...   :D

@ Lorian: I know (still exploring) and love the torque characteristics of the car, and am not planning terribly regular trips to redline territory, but in exploring this throttle response curiosity, have had several rushes to redline that I think would surprise many CRDi owners, not to mention the petrol crowd.  It surely as anything surprised me, and I'm not that easily surprised...

@ Shambles: The best guess I have at the moment, assuming this behaviour is by design, is that it's a "feature" to perhaps give inexperienced drivers less chance of crashing what is not supposed to be a sports car.  I know some teenagers, for example, that think the throttle has only two positions, on, and off.  It could also be a fuel economy "feature".  But at the moment I have only questions, and no concrete answers.

My car is still stock, but this issue has me wondering how the hell would you do a consistent dyno run, when the maximum result seems to involve feeding in the throttle?

Loving the car though.  There are not enough "BigGrins" to describe it.   :D :D
Title: Re: Acceleration issues take 2
Post by: Dazzler on January 29, 2011, 20:52:34
Loving the car though.  There are not enough "BigGrins" to describe it.   :D :D

Well said Beekster.. Not sure if you are old enough to remember the Nissan Patrol add with the huge grins but I used to think of that add when I drove my CRDi on winding roads  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Acceleration issues take 2
Post by: cyberdolt on January 30, 2011, 06:52:10
Ah,Ha! At last someone with the same problem as my 1.6. The problem is erratic and is promoted via ambient temps above 26c. At 35c it becomes a real pest. You may find that when the car is in its lazy mode, lifting the pedal about 25% will produce a certain surge in power. It should not behave as such. I have a few theories but have yet to test them. The dealer knows of the problem but has no cure. I have fitted a boost gauge so I can make more sense of this problem.
Title: Re: Acceleration issues take 2
Post by: Rof on February 18, 2011, 12:40:50
Do you have problems in losing power whilst accelerating - is you miles per gallon dropping?  I had a problem with losing power in my car, with principally the fuel efficiency dropping, but not all the time.  I also had problems with the ESP turning itself off.  The dealer originally attributed the ESP turning off with the final diagnosis of an uneven wear on the drive plate.  This resulted in a replacement clutch and drive plate.  You could try that?  The symptoms I had were not quite like yours, but started with the engine reducing in performance and reduced miles per gallon, any finally loss of power due to the drive plate slipping.  Worth a question.  I'm not the only one who has had the problem of uneven wear on the drive plate, so it should be in the Hyundai Technical log of problems, if the dealer is capable of finding it.
Title: Re: Acceleration issues take 2
Post by: Beekster on February 18, 2011, 15:14:38
Do you have problems in losing power whilst accelerating - is you miles per gallon dropping?  I had a problem with losing power in my car, with principally the fuel efficiency dropping, but not all the time.  I also had problems with the ESP turning itself off.  The dealer originally attributed the ESP turning off with the final diagnosis of an uneven wear on the drive plate.  This resulted in a replacement clutch and drive plate.  You could try that?  The symptoms I had were not quite like yours, but started with the engine reducing in performance and reduced miles per gallon, any finally loss of power due to the drive plate slipping.  Worth a question.  I'm not the only one who has had the problem of uneven wear on the drive plate, so it should be in the Hyundai Technical log of problems, if the dealer is capable of finding it.
No loss of power while accelerating, by my expectations anyway.  The torque the engine produces, let's say while floored, does drop off from about 3.5k rpm towards redline.  But in my case drops off less when less than full throttle is initially applied, and the application of the throttle is still increasing.

My i30 is close to brand new (almost 1500 km).  No possibility of drive plate issues.  Not ESP related.  This "issue" is pure engine management related, and my best guess is the switching between the mode with single injector bursts, and the "multibursts" used in common rail diesels to make them smoother and quieter.

With regard to your steering issue in another thread, a left field idea to have them check is that your acceleration meter is securely mounted to the car, and orientated correctly.  Let alone checked for correct operation and connection to the ECU.

You sure do seem to have gotten a lemon, compared to how impressed I am with my i30.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Acceleration issues take 2
Post by: Lorian on February 18, 2011, 17:24:32
Looking at the dyno graph for the (unrestricted) U2 CRDi the torque starts to drop off a little before that. Full torque is supposed to be on stream between 1900rpm and 2750rpm. It will vary a little for the original U series.
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