[Phil №❶]

AFAIC, Governments should either own the industry, or get completely out of it. Subsidizing alters the playing field unfairly. It creates an expectation that any company can go cap in hand and ask for assistance, then complain bitterly if it is not forthcoming.

If we can believe the history books, Chifley's govt determined that Australia would have a motor vehicle industry. As none existed, it was right and proper for the govt to offer assistance to anyone interested in making a commitment to the project which GM did.

To keep themselves afloat, govts are dispensing of their owned assets, Telstra, Qantas in order to raise cash to fend off the ultimate embarrassment of actual account deficits. Of course, this can only last until the assets are completely sold off, then it's crunch time, increase taxes and borrow money offshore. Not one of us here would consider this to be a good idea in our own home budget, why do governments allow themselves to follow this path.

We are inextricably caught up in the world economy and setting ourselves up dangerously for a big fall when our natural resources run out, we will have nothing in existence as a fallback position once this happens, unless we use this sad time to get some creative thinking happening.

[Eureka]

"crunch time, increase taxes and borrow money"

Why did the Howard/Costello govt halve the capital gains tax? 

Why can people with superannuation, who are over the age of 60, pay virtually no tax?  (I am now retired and on a on a modest income and when I hit 60 in few years my own tax will be reduced substantially; I could easily afford to keep paying the rate of tax that I am currently paying).

The labor govt introduced a change whereby people getting annual superannuation payments of $100,000 or more would start to pay some tax; Abbott has scrapped that.

Perhaps taxes wouldn't need to be increased so much if existing taxes hadn't been reduced or removed in the first place.

Our governments don't really give a poo about what's best for the country.  What they care about is helping their mates and getting re-elected.

[Phil №❶]

Not having a discussion about Howard, Costello or Abbott. It doesn't matter who did what and when all govt are the same. Your last sentence pretty much sums it up.

[Zoom]

Well, it seems Toyota is following Holden and Ford out the door and the Australian car manufacturing industry will die off in 2017.

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/toyo...ys-union-41554

And I hope the AMWU are happy with what they've achieved for their members.

[Ugly Mongrel]

That's not quite true, Zoom.

Only Joe Hockey thinks that. Toyota certainly doesn't.


“Toyota Australia has never blamed the union for its decision to close its manufacturing operations by the end of 2017, neither publicly or in private discussions with any stakeholders,” the statement said.

“As stated at the time of the announcement, there is no single reason that led to this decision.

“The market and economic factors contributing to the decision include the unfavourable Australian dollar that makes exports unviable, high costs of manufacturing and low economies of scale for our vehicle production and local supplier base.

“Together with one of the most open and fragmented automotive markets in the world and increased competitiveness due to current and future free trade agreements, it is not viable to continue building cars in Australia.”

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/toyota-says-it-never-blamed-the-unions-for-plant-closure/story-fn59noo3-1226824530344

[Surferdude]

There's another side to that story.
Without getting into politics, I can say that, having lived through the closure of two tyre manufacturing plants in Australia, one does NOT want to say or do anything which will piss off the union membersduring the wind down period.
So, you say nice things about them publicly and behind the scenes, negotiate quality clauses into the redundancy packages.

[rustynutz]

Everyone love to bash the Unions....but honestly, where would we be without them?   

Me thinks Ol' Joe is just angling to drum up support for another stab at "Workchoices"....

[FatBoy]

Everyone love to bash the Unions....but honestly, where would we be without them?   

Me thinks Ol' Joe is just angling to drum up support for another stab at "Workchoices"....

I agree, Rusty.  Unions have proved useful in ensuring a safe workplace for all employees, and generally fair conditions for all.  I have even joined the pilot's equivalent (Australian Federation of Air Pilots) who do a lot of work with both the regulators (CASA), and the employers during EBA negotiations and dispute resolution.  They should not however, force unreasonable or unrealistic demands on employers that then forces the employer to take drastic action (QANTAS shutdown three years ago).  While Toyota have said it was a combination of things that forced them to cease manufacturing in Australia, without a doubt, the higher cost of labour in Australia means that the people that were getting paid above the award, will now not get paid at all.  We are, after all, in a world economy, no longer shielded by distance (or large, ineffective tariffs).

Unions and Employers should be working together, not against each other.

[Phil №❶]

Unions want more money. Employers want more profit

The balance between the two is inversely proportional to the amount of leverage each can apply to each other.

e.g. Clerks, we can do without, so too bad for them.

Fuel tanker drivers, different story.

[rustynutz]

Everyone love to bash the Unions....but honestly, where would we be without them?   

Me thinks Ol' Joe is just angling to drum up support for another stab at "Workchoices"....

I agree, Rusty.  Unions have proved useful in ensuring a safe workplace for all employees, and generally fair conditions for all.  I have even joined the pilot's equivalent (Australian Federation of Air Pilots) who do a lot of work with both the regulators (CASA), and the employers during EBA negotiations and dispute resolution.  They should not however, force unreasonable or unrealistic demands on employers that then forces the employer to take drastic action (QANTAS shutdown three years ago).  While Toyota have said it was a combination of things that forced them to cease manufacturing in Australia, without a doubt, the higher cost of labour in Australia means that the people that were getting paid above the award, will now not get paid at all.  We are, after all, in a world economy, no longer shielded by distance (or large, ineffective tariffs).

Unions and Employers should be working together, not against each other.

My understanding of the situation was that Toyota wanted to change an agreement that both parties had already signed off on.
Putting the boot on the other foot, can we honestly see an employer agreeing to alter a work agreement to, say bump up wages and give extra days off?
I suspect they would respond exactly how the Union did and say F U.... 

[FatBoy]

And now Toyota is not manufacturing in Australia.  FU back

[rustynutz]

Yep!

[beerman]

Everyone love to bash the Unions....but honestly, where would we be without them?   

Me thinks Ol' Joe is just angling to drum up support for another stab at "Workchoices"....

I agree, Rusty.  Unions have proved useful in ensuring a safe workplace for all employees, and generally fair conditions for all.  I have even joined the pilot's equivalent (Australian Federation of Air Pilots) who do a lot of work with both the regulators (CASA), and the employers during EBA negotiations and dispute resolution.  They should not however, force unreasonable or unrealistic demands on employers that then forces the employer to take drastic action (QANTAS shutdown three years ago).  While Toyota have said it was a combination of things that forced them to cease manufacturing in Australia, without a doubt, the higher cost of labour in Australia means that the people that were getting paid above the award, will now not get paid at all.  We are, after all, in a world economy, no longer shielded by distance (or large, ineffective tariffs).

Unions and Employers should be working together, not against each other.

My understanding of the situation was that Toyota wanted to change an agreement that both parties had already signed off on.
Putting the boot on the other foot, can we honestly see an employer agreeing to alter a work agreement to, say bump up wages and give extra days off?
I suspect they would respond exactly how the Union did and say F U.... 

Mining boom? If they didn't pay they didn't get the stuff out of the ground, hence you had blokes getting paid 120k to hold a hose...

Unfortunately it had a flow on effect on the rest of the economy, so workshops in Brisbane now had to pay more to stop their mechanics going to the mines, restaurants their cooks etc. Now we have the slow down, miners (who are on contract anyway) will get less, but the rest of the economy needs to adjust.

We have seen through history that unions are there to protect the benefits of their workers, if 10% of their workers are in trouble and need to drop some of their conditions to save their jobs, the union is bound to protect the other 90%

I recall a situation where a business was in trouble and the workers wanted to work for free to keep their jobs. The union wouldn't let them, but they did it anyway. The business got back on its feet, and the workers kept their jobs and were back paid. I can see why the union said no, it opens the floodgates for the other 90%, but I can also see why the workers fought for their jobs....

 

[Dazzler]

  Beerman