[rustynutz]

Yet another anti-motorcycle rant from that "quality" rag, the Herald Sun...



To put it bluntly, what a load of frog shit....

[Dazzler]

If this is true Rusty..

"That's because the law does not require motorbikes to have front number plates.

As reported in today's Herald Sun, almost 20,000 riders have escaped at least $4 million in fines and 25,000 demerit points in the past three years."

Why would you have a problem with it?

[rustynutz]

It is obvious that this clown doesn't have a clue...

If riders break the law, I have no issue with them getting nabbed but I do suspect these quoted figures have been fudged to sensationalise just like many others are.

Motorcycles in Australia haven't required front number plates in over 30 years, well before the introduction of speed cameras.These fools didn't take motorcycles into account with these cameras, so they are now wanting to make motorcyclists pay for their own lack of foresight.

Number plates were removed mainly for safety reasons.  Other countries don't require number plates so motorcycles are not designed for them.

VicRoads even spent 5 years and $420,000 to find that there is no satisfactory way of fixing registration plates to the front of a motorcycle.

Yet every couple of years some bright spark wants to reintroduce them, supposedly for "safety reasons" (read revenue raising.)

[Surferdude]

The excuse for not displaying a front number plate is that it affects the aerodynamics of the bike and could cause an accident.

Not at legal road speeds it won't.

[rustynutz]

Seems the "experts" beg to differ, Trev....

But, that is just one of a number of issues with fitting plates....

And besides the problem of attachment you've also got to remember that Australia is supposedly trying to pull their rules and regs into line with other Countries so fitting front number plates flies in the face of that when other countries don't have front number plates on motorcycles.

Instead of pushing this "agenda" wouldn't it be so much simpler for them to just use speed cameras that take happy snaps from the rear?

[neptune]

I suppose this leads to another conclusion...."If it s good for the goose , its good for the gander"........basically saying if a motor bike rider can't be booked , why should a motor car driver......

[rustynutz]

I think this is the biggest whinge by car drivers, Neptune....People really need to lose the "motorcycles should be treated the same as cars" mentality. They are 2 completely different vehicles which is why there are different rules for different road users.

The facts are that motorcycles have not been required to display a front number plate for over 30 years, well before speed cameras were introduced.
All motor vehicles are required to display a rear number plate so logic would say that you would only deploy speed cameras that took photos of the rear of any vehicle.....simple. The fact that not all the cameras do that is not the motorcyclists fault but now our bureaucrats want to cover up their stuff up and somehow make motorcyclists responsible.

[bumpkin]

Whilst there are variations to the rules for different classification of vehicles on roads in the UK, and therefore I assume other countries, surely the basis on which these variations are identical and therefore the argument of equality MUST come into play?

If the rule is that all motor vehicles must show a plate from the rear, then all car owners should legally be able to remove their front plates, thus making them equal to their motor cycle riding brethren.

The very idea that the same people who use the same roads can get away with infringements is just ridiculous, in the UK speed cameras take the photo from behind, not that I believe in cameras as a safety device, people (buses, trucks, cars and motorbikes) simply race up to them, brake hard, go through the zone then zoom away, bloody useless things!

[rustynutz]

Front number plates were removed for a reason. One was that the sharp edges were a danger to pedestrians.
Obviously with a number plate bolted to the front of a car there is very little of the plate exposed compared to a motorcycle so much less danger to a pedestrian.

For some reason there doesn't seem to be an issue with motorcyclists escaping being fined in other Countries, if there is, I'm yet to hear of it. Perhaps it's because they use speed cameras that take photos of the rear of vehicles?     

Seems everyone is missing the obvious solution and are just concentrating on "if it's good enough for car drivers then it's good enough for motorcyclists" theory.....

[AlanHo]

............... in the UK speed cameras take the photo from behind, not that I believe in cameras as a safety device, people (buses, trucks, cars and motorbikes) simply race up to them, brake hard, go through the zone then zoom away, bloody useless things!

There are four types of speed cameras in common use in the UK.

GATSO
These are the most common camera in use in the UK. They are rear-facing with a high intensity flash. They take their readings and photos AFTER you drive past them.

TRUVELO
Similar to Gatsos but normally forward facing - i.e. your picture is taken as you approach. Truvelo's use infra red so they won't blind you and therefore can be impossible to tell if you have been caught.  Only a small number of  Truvelo cameras are mounted rear-facing.

REDSPEED
These are rear facing post mounted cameras located at traffic lights to catch vehicles that run a red light. The most modern ones are also equipped to detect speeding when the lights are green.

SPECS
These are normally forward facing cameras mounted on a gantry and work in pairs tracking the registration number of a vehicle to calculate the average speed between each location. Most are installed at major roadworks but their use is spreading slowly into monitoring normal main roads.

[Aussie Keith]

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/bike-news/minister-looks-at-front-number-plates-for-bikes-20110831-1jlpp.html

Sounds like a good idea to me. The law abiding motorcyclist has nothing to fear.

Just a "F-ing" ugly number plate stuck to the front of his motor bike. Remove them from cars as well and everything will be fine. Well no fines actually.

Like many have said, some thoughtless beauracrates weren't on the ball when Australia opted for front facing speed cameras.

[Surferdude]

Cars, trucks, buses, motor cycles - all road users. They should obey the same rules. And if a section of one group or another is abusing the system, then I have no problem changing the system to reduce those offences.
To suggest motor cycles are totally different vehicles is invalid. Or would you apply the same philosophy to trucks having the need for a log book and obeying different seped limits under certain circumstances.
The ''damage" done to pedestrians by a sensibly designed front number plate versus the impact damage caused by being slammed into by a few hundred kilos of motor cycle at any speed is negligible. Using that excuse is just a cop out by people who refuse to move with the times.
Road rules, speed limits, road surfaces and vehicle designs, not to mention the number of vehicles on our roads, have all changed dramatically over the last 30 years. Why should we not consider upgrading the regulations as far as number plates are concerned?
So, overseas countries apparently aren't doing it? That argument didn't wash when we were among the first to introduce compulsory helmets for motor and pedal cyclists and compulsory seat belt use for car occupants. Having driven (and been driven) in quite a few other countries, I wouldn't suggest they are necessarily all leaders in the field.

[Doggie 1]

I remember in W.A. that all motorbikes used to have a front plate and then that requirement was done away with, primarily under the argument that a front number plate has sharp edges and might hurt a pedestrian.
I don't buy it.
Quite some time ago, W.A. police started to put front number plates on police motorbikes in order to set the example, which shows it can be done.
I don't see why all motorbikes shouldn't be required to do the same.
There are different options, such as metal plates, adhesive plates, etc, so really there is no reason why they shouldn't abide by the same rules as everyone else.
As far as speed cameras go, W.A. uses both types - forward and rearward types so it is possible to be photographed from either direction, dependent upon which type of camera is being used at the time.

[rustynutz]

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/bike-news/minister-looks-at-front-number-plates-for-bikes-20110831-1jlpp.html

Sounds like a good idea to me. The law abiding motorcyclist has nothing to fear.

You do realise front number plates were removed for a reason don't you, Keith?
And not just in Australia, pretty much every other country in the world......

[Doggie 1]

It would be difficult to do this if there were two number plates to cover. 

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/motorcyclist-obscures-number-plate-as-he-drives-past-speed-camera-at-129kmh/story-e6freoof-1226611822523

[rustynutz]

Seems I'm banging my head against a brick wall.....

You're all arguing as to why we should have front number plates and ignoring the reasons why we now don't have them.
What is the issue? The issue here is that some riders are getting away with speeding because our bureaucrats didn't have enough brains to make sure ALL speed cameras could take happy snaps from the rear.

Update the cameras, problem solved! It's really not rocket science..... 

Instead you'd rather endanger the public, make motorcyclists pay to somehow retrofit number plates just so they can be like car drivers....Unbelievable! 

Seems you've even ignored the fact that VicRoads has tried to come up with a workable solution to enable number plates to be fitted and they failed. And this is a mob that wants them!

[Doggie 1]

W.A. Police succeeded.

It had occurred to me that number plates can become a thing of the past if modern technologies are used creatively. Simply electronically encrypt the VIN into a chip that can be read as a vehicle passes a sensor. No plates required. Big brother is watching you.

[Surferdude]

Rusty it's all very well to suggest "we" are ignoring the reasons for a 30 year old decision.

The article has this to say in closing.............

There can be no valid reason not to have some identification. New technology is likely to solve the problem if full-sized number plates can be proved a risk to a bike's stability.

That is unlikely at legislated speed limits, which tends to prove the point that some motorbike riders want to defy road laws.

Their need for speed makes them dangerous to themselves and other road users.

And regardless of your detrimental comments about the newspaper concerned, I think those closing remarks make perfect sense.

[Doggie 1]

It had occurred to me that number plates can become a thing of the past if modern technologies are used creatively. Simply electronically encrypt the VIN into a chip that can be read as a vehicle passes a sensor. No plates required. Big brother is watching you.

That is true and will probably happen. 
But it doesn't help when an offence is committed (eg an armed robbery) and there are twenty seven witnesses but no registration number to take.

[Surferdude]

It had occurred to me that number plates can become a thing of the past if modern technologies are used creatively. Simply electronically encrypt the VIN into a chip that can be read as a vehicle passes a sensor. No plates required. Big brother is watching you.

That is true and will probably happen. 
But it doesn't help when an offence is committed (eg an armed robbery) and there are twenty seven witnesses but no registration number to take.

That'll be OK Dave.
We'll all have chip readers grafted into our foreheads.

Oh. Wait.
There are those who reckon it's already done.
beep


beep


beep


beep


beep


beep


 

Easy solution really. Traffic is monitored and every road intersection can be monitored and thereby authorities can detect who was where when and for how long. Plus a stolen vehicle's where abouts can be discovered. The whole system would also be used for traffic control.

Spooky hey!

[rustynutz]

W.A. Police succeeded.

Dave, if it was that easy don't you think they would already be making front plates compulsory?  Remember, these plates would need to be adaptable to fit every single type of bike, not just a police motorcycle.

As for the rest, I concede defeat, lets fit front number plates and while we're at it, lets make car drivers wear helmets....hey, if it's good enough for motorcyclists....

It had occurred to me that number plates can become a thing of the past if modern technologies are used creatively. Simply electronically encrypt the VIN into a chip that can be read as a vehicle passes a sensor. No plates required. Big brother is watching you.

But it doesn't help when an offence is committed (eg an armed robbery) and there are twenty seven witnesses but no registration number to take.

I would've thought that someone committing a robbery would be riding AWAY from witnesses, Dave...

[Doggie 1]

W.A. Police succeeded.

Dave, if it was that easy don't you think they would already be making front plates compulsory?  Remember, these plates would need to be adaptable to fit every single type of bike, not just a police motorcycle.

As for the rest, I concede defeat, lets fit front number plates and while we're at it, lets make car drivers wear helmets....hey, if it's good enough for motorcyclists....

It had occurred to me that number plates can become a thing of the past if modern technologies are used creatively. Simply electronically encrypt the VIN into a chip that can be read as a vehicle passes a sensor. No plates required. Big brother is watching you.

But it doesn't help when an offence is committed (eg an armed robbery) and there are twenty seven witnesses but no registration number to take.

I would've thought that someone committing a robbery would be riding AWAY from witnesses, Dave...

Yes, away FROM the scene with witnesses in FRONT of them as they did, Rusty. 

Oh really guys. Most crimes are committed with stolen vehicles often with no or false plates.

[rustynutz]

Of course someone on a motorcycle wouldn't think of covering or removing the plates like someone in a car might, hey Dave?   

[Surferdude]

As for the rest, I concede defeat, lets fit front number plates and while we're at it, lets make car drivers wear helmets....hey, if it's good enough for motorcyclists....

Not a problem. I'll go along with that right after they fit 7 air bags to motor cycles.

[rustynutz]

Now you can see how crazy your line of thinking was, hey Trev? 

[Doggie 1]

Oh really guys. Most crimes are committed with stolen vehicles often with no or false plates.

Stolen vehicles still need plates so that when the police catch up with the offenders they can charge them with all of the offences they committed.