[The Gonz]

If Rudd misses out and Abbott gets in he'll be looking at your suggestions along with everything else that can be cut....

Perhaps a few choice cuts will bring us back to viability where CAN afford pay rises.

[rustynutz]

I don't get it, everyone is expecting cutbacks if Abbott gets in yet if Rudd cuts something back........  

[Aussie Keith]

I'm awaiting some Liberal policys to see what it is I might consider voting for. The financial minds behind the Howard era are gone and we have in recent times been treated to Hockeynomics including the "audited" proposal from the libs that Hockey let some flunky release because one presumes he was too embarrassed to talk about it himself.

From The Age: Asked whether he had been wise to call their work an audit, he said: "I'm not getting into it, mate." Genius. A treasurer candidate that won't back himself on financial costings and despite stating the figures were audited does not want to comment when challenged.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/lib-policy-costings-exposed-by-ruling-20111130-1o773.html#ixzz2ZXX65T9r

Recent costings have been out by miles because "labour lie about the figues". Ahem, the figures are available from treasury and anyone can see them. If he wanted to find out he could ask journalists about it and they could tell him how it works. So lets not have any of this "libs are superior managers" stuff, there's no evidence the current crop have a clue. Or any substantial policy either.

On policy, this is a book of motherhood statements, not policy: http://lpa.webcontent.s3.amazonaws.com/realsolutions/LPA%20Policy%20Booklet%20210x210_pages.pdf

It could be a lot of this is non core promises as well, another liberal specialty.

On Hockeynomics:

http://www.smh.com.au/business/hockeynomics-101-the-fiscal-fumble-while-canberra-bumbles-20110629-1gq6x.html

http://www.petermartin.com.au/2009/09/hockeynomics-at-times-embarrassment.html

On his website: http://www.joehockey.com/media/media-releases/ << plenty of bashing but nothing on policy. The embarrassing documents like this one are gone: http://www.joehockey.com/media/media-releases/details.aspx?r=193 although the placeholder remains. You can google it up though if you want a good laugh. Or a good cry depending on your view.

On his fiscal credibility: http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/sloppy-joe-hockeys-fifteen-biggest-press-club-furphies/

I'm not surprised they are in no hurry to explain how they are going to accomplish their proposed objectives as I would say they have no clue. So when you are weigh up what to do at the ballot, think long and hard about the alternative. Because right now I don't think there really is one.

Tony, lets have those policy details so we can make an informed decision one way or the other.

[Doggie 1]

I don't get it, everyone is expecting cutbacks if Abbott gets in yet if Rudd cuts something back........  

Rudd isn't cutting across the board, he's targeted one area to pay for yet another massive spend he's making.
The spending never stops.
Every time he (and it was the same with Gillard) goes overseas he takes an open cheque book to hand out more of our money to "developing" countries.
It can't be sustained.
If you or I ran our household budgets or our business budgets like that we wouldn't have a house or a business for very long.

[Doggie 1]

Keith, if you don't think the Liberals are better money managers than Labor over the years, vote Labor.
I suspect you will anyway. 

[Phil №❶]

I trend to agree with keith_h.

The current line up of the Libs are as much a joke as the other mob. Hockey / Swan, both Geese IMO.  Abbott hasn't got a clue either.

[Aussie Keith]

Keith, if you don't think the Liberals are better money managers than Labor over the years, vote Labor.
I suspect you will anyway. 

I'll take the best option. Or more correctly the least awful option whatever that maybe. My point was the Libs have not given me any reason to back them as yet. The other mob are at least for better or worse a known quantity.

Despite the scare mongering by the Libs, experts suggest we have one of the best performing economies in the world. The "financial pressures" that working families are subject to have never been explained because again according to financial experts its nonsense.

This from a link I posted earlier:

14. “Because of Labor’s determination to keep spending other people’s money, if we are elected on September 14, obviously we will have little fiscal room to move.”

According to economists such as Professor Joseph Stiglitz it is precisely the level of stimulus spending Australia opted for when the GFC hit that saved Australia from a disastrous recession. If Hockey becomes Treasurer in September, he will inherit the world’s best- managed economy by a street.

Read the article in the link for the reasons why this is the case.

Again, not backing one team over the other but I think you'll agree the facts are compelling. Awaiting a solid case from the libs to help me make a balanced decision. So far they have given me nothing of value.

[Ugly Mongrel]

Dave, the line often used by conservatives that governments should run their budgets like a household or business is utter nonsense.

Governments have  responsibilities including foreign aid, providing infrastructure, funding social programs and welfare, etc. They do this with income  (money generated by taxes) and borrowings.

Households and businesses do not have these non-income producing responsibilities. However, they both use income and borrowings to do what they have to do.

Australia's debt is not as disastrous as the conservative side of politics make out and one only has to do a bit of research to find out the facts.

[Surferdude]

Dave, the line often used by conservatives that governments should run their budgets like a household or business is utter nonsense.

Governments have  responsibilities including foreign aid, providing infrastructure, funding social programs and welfare, etc. They do this with income  (money generated by taxes) and borrowings.

Households and businesses do not have these non-income producing responsibilities. However, they both use income and borrowings to do what they have to do.

Australia's debt is not as disastrous as the conservative side of politics make out and one only has to do a bit of research to find out the facts.

Sorry Terry. I hear this from time to time and don't agree.

Households and businesses do not have these non-income producing responsibilities   

Major repairs to houses, renovations of same, buying new cars, taking family holidays, paying for kids'educations are all smaller examples of    including foreign aid, providing infrastructure, funding social programs and welfare, etc  . Everything is relative. Sometimes families have to downsize, forgo a holiday, take kids out of public schools etc because of the constraints of income. If they don't they go broke. Governments should apply the same principles. Labor doesn't seem to grasp this principle.

[Phil №❶]

Have to disagree 100 % UM this time.

[Ugly Mongrel]

Makes sense to me, Trev.

Let's just bring on the austerity measures then.

 Slash & burn government funding, grind government projects to a halt, sack tens of thousands of people, sell schools, kick people out of nursing homes and she'll all be apples. That certainly worked in Queensland.

BTW, apart from house repairs, everything else on your list is discretionary spending, just like major national infrastructure programs were during the Howard "boom" years.

 I wouldn't be taking my kids out of public schools to stop myself going broke.

[Surferdude]

Makes sense to me, Trev.

Let's just bring on the austerity measures then.

 Slash & burn government funding, grind government projects to a halt, sack tens of thousands of people, sell schools, kick people out of nursing homes and she'll all be apples. That certainly worked in Queensland.

I understand what youré saying but give it time.
If Anna had been just a little more sensible in her spending, we wouldn't have to slash and burn.
We're still paying for the health dept payroll debacle, the damn Traveston and the rusting salt water purifier.

[Phil №❶]

Makes sense to me, Trev.

Let's just bring on the austerity measures then.

 Slash & burn government funding, grind government projects to a halt, sack tens of thousands of people, sell schools, kick people out of nursing homes and she'll all be apples. That certainly worked in Queensland.

I understand what youré saying but give it time.
If Anna had been just a little more sensible in her spending, we wouldn't have to slash and burn.
We're still paying for the health dept payroll debacle, the damn Traveston and the rusting salt water purifier.

And the big rock Egg on top of the hill, with a vine growing over it. 

[Aussie Keith]

First, I'll agree there needs to be balance to meet all commitments. Next, I'd say its a concept rather than a principle.

Lets examine how this concept is working in Queensland where its been widely promoted that labour mismanagement has ruined the states economy although I see no evidence to show that this is in fact the case (agree there was waste - no doubt). First can do has reaped savings by sacking about 14000 public servants.  No frontline staff were affected apparently except all the frontline staff that were sacked. Then he has slashed funding for programs intended to assist the marginalised in the community - without reducing or cutting back services. Amazing. Then he rehired a bunch of people but not to shore up frontline staff of course since they were not affected in the first place. Then he and his cohorts awarded themselves a big fat pay rise and later backed down when the word got out.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-09/qld-government-backs-down-on-mp-pay-rise/4809130

On the positive side can do's crew are looking at fixing antiquated IT systems that power the public sector and are costing a motza to maintain. That's a good thing when you see how much it costs right now. But wait, a strategy paper was released a full 3 years before can do was elected. So its not really his idea. But he has given the idea a cut and polish and is is taking it for a spin anyway.

http://delimiter.com.au/2013/07/05/qld-minister-defends-new-ict-strategy-not-brochureware/

In response to the ICT Audit, this afternoon Queensland ICT Minister Ian Walker released what was described as an ICT Strategy to take the state forward in the years from 2013 to 2017. However, the document as a whole is only 16 pages long, of which six pages constitute cover sheets, blank pages, content pages and a glossary.

The document does not go into any detail about how Queensland plans to meet its unprecedented level of challenges with respect to its ICT processes and systems; instead it contains only a series of what could be described as ‘motherhood’ statements about the state’s principles about dealing with technology.

To be fair, the greatest IT debacle in Australian history, the Qld Health payroll happened under the previous administration. That was definitely a big fat fail. But lets see if can do can match it as the government embarks on a great big IT outsourcing program. Should be fun.

Now the proof, are we any better of with this current administration even after such a short time? I don't think so and there's about 14000 people who might have something to say about that as well. 

Yes, its all about getting the balance right for sure.

[Surferdude]

First, I'll agree there needs to be balance to meet all commitments. Next, I'd say its a concept rather than a principle.

Lets examine how this concept is working in Queensland where its been widely promoted that labour mismanagement has ruined the states economy although I see no evidence to show that this is in fact the case (agree there was waste - no doubt). First can do has reaped savings by sacking about 14000 public servants.  No frontline staff were affected apparently except all the frontline staff that were sacked. Then he has slashed funding for programs intended to assist the marginalised in the community - without reducing or cutting back services. Amazing. Then he rehired a bunch of people but not to shore up frontline staff of course since they were not affected in the first place. Then he and his cohorts awarded themselves a big fat pay rise and later backed down when the word got out.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-09/qld-government-backs-down-on-mp-pay-rise/4809130

On the positive side can do's crew are looking at fixing antiquated IT systems that power the public sector and are costing a motza to maintain. That's a good thing when you see how much it costs right now. But wait, a strategy paper was released a full 3 years before can do was elected. So its not really his idea. But he has given the idea a cut and polish and is is taking it for a spin anyway.

http://delimiter.com.au/2013/07/05/qld-minister-defends-new-ict-strategy-not-brochureware/

In response to the ICT Audit, this afternoon Queensland ICT Minister Ian Walker released what was described as an ICT Strategy to take the state forward in the years from 2013 to 2017. However, the document as a whole is only 16 pages long, of which six pages constitute cover sheets, blank pages, content pages and a glossary.

The document does not go into any detail about how Queensland plans to meet its unprecedented level of challenges with respect to its ICT processes and systems; instead it contains only a series of what could be described as ‘motherhood’ statements about the state’s principles about dealing with technology.

To be fair, the greatest IT debacle in Australian history, the Qld Health payroll happened under the previous administration. That was definitely a big fat fail. But lets see if can do can match it as the government embarks on a great big IT outsourcing program. Should be fun.

Now the proof, are we any better of with this current administration even after such a short time? I don't think so and there's about 14000 people who might have something to say about that as well. 

Yes, its all about getting the balance right for sure.

That's all fine Keith but Labor had years to screw things up. And did a fine job of it. You can't fix that in one term. You try to get some of the bad stuff out of the way in the first couple of years and hope you can show some positives in year 3 before the next election.
The "balance"can only be judged after Campbell has had as many year sin office as Beatty/Bligh.

[Ugly Mongrel]

Oh, I forgot....Queensland is broke.

Chief "auditor" Costello told us so, so it must be true.

[Ugly Mongrel]

Finally, a Coalition policy on the environment.

http://brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/soil-dumping-on-great-barrier-reef-supported-by-lnp-candidate-20130719-2q9m6.html

And here's a cheery Coalition education policy.

http://brisbanetimes.com.au/nsw/nsw-shuns-federal-coalition-plan-to-split-state-schools-20130719-2q9ng.html

[beerman]

It is fairly standard practice to keep your policies until an election is called, Rudd did the same....To say Rudd and the third rate people he has called (and begged) up to be his front bench are 'Known' when a majority of the known performers have either announced their intention to retire, or refused to work on his front bench (obviously hoping that he loses and they can get a a gig as a shadow minister). It says a fair bit about the bloke when the best performers are passing up big bucks to avoid working with him. While some of the new blood will no doubt step up to the mark, the removal of plenty of experience will no doubt see more stuff ups. If history serves correct, their only real job will be to put their neck on the chopping block to take responsibility for one of Kev's stuff ups.

As for the Qld Labor years, their obsession with being the lowest taxing state was always going to catch up with them....and Anna's need to create 100,000 jobs was padded out with extra public service positions. For all the talk, about sackings, the first wave was short term contracts that simply weren't renewed. Did anyone notice their departure? I know there was talk about chaos, but it never came. As for the payroll, that should have always been an arms length design this for me, when you deliver it, and it works we will pay you x amount of money type tender.

What I do know about the new Qld Government, is that my wife was at the daughters school the other day talking to the Headmaster. The budget for maintenance has gone up from 30 odd grand to 130 odd grand, and they no longer have to use Qbuild so it is effectively double again.

[beerman]

Breaking News.......

Prime Minister Rudd and PNG's Prime Minister have just signed a Regional Resettlement Agreement. The RRA will see all refugees that arrive in Australia will be processed under existing arrangements (Christmas Island, Naru or Manus Island). Those found to be genuine refugees will be resettled in PNG. Those who are found to not be genuine refugees will be returned to their country of origin. NO refugees will re resettled in Australia.

Looks like Kev might stop the boats.

Let's see what Mr Abbott has to say about this.

I dare say this speech by his Immigration Minister may provide some fodder.....


Labor committed to abolishing the Pacific Solution and this was one the first things the Rudd Labor Government did on taking office.  It was also one of my greatest pleasures in politics.  Neither humane nor fair, the Pacific Solution was also ineffective and wasteful.

At massive cost to the Australian taxpayer – I am advised that the Department of Immigration and Citizenship expended $309.8 million between September 2001 and 29 February 2008 to run the Nauru and Manus Offshore Processing Centres (OPCs) – the Howard government sought to outsource our international protection obligations to less developed countries when we should have been shouldering them ourselves…

 The Pacific Solution was not about maintaining integrity or public confidence in Australia’s arrangements.  It was about the cynical politics of punishing refugees for domestic political purposes.

So which one is it?

[Aussie Keith]

First, I'll agree there needs to be balance to meet all commitments. Next, I'd say its a concept rather than a principle.

Lets examine how this concept is working in Queensland where its been widely promoted that labour mismanagement has ruined the states economy although I see no evidence to show that this is in fact the case (agree there was waste - no doubt). First can do has reaped savings by sacking about 14000 public servants.  No frontline staff were affected apparently except all the frontline staff that were sacked. Then he has slashed funding for programs intended to assist the marginalised in the community - without reducing or cutting back services. Amazing. Then he rehired a bunch of people but not to shore up frontline staff of course since they were not affected in the first place. Then he and his cohorts awarded themselves a big fat pay rise and later backed down when the word got out.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-09/qld-government-backs-down-on-mp-pay-rise/4809130

On the positive side can do's crew are looking at fixing antiquated IT systems that power the public sector and are costing a motza to maintain. That's a good thing when you see how much it costs right now. But wait, a strategy paper was released a full 3 years before can do was elected. So its not really his idea. But he has given the idea a cut and polish and is is taking it for a spin anyway.

http://delimiter.com.au/2013/07/05/qld-minister-defends-new-ict-strategy-not-brochureware/

In response to the ICT Audit, this afternoon Queensland ICT Minister Ian Walker released what was described as an ICT Strategy to take the state forward in the years from 2013 to 2017. However, the document as a whole is only 16 pages long, of which six pages constitute cover sheets, blank pages, content pages and a glossary.

The document does not go into any detail about how Queensland plans to meet its unprecedented level of challenges with respect to its ICT processes and systems; instead it contains only a series of what could be described as ‘motherhood’ statements about the state’s principles about dealing with technology.

To be fair, the greatest IT debacle in Australian history, the Qld Health payroll happened under the previous administration. That was definitely a big fat fail. But lets see if can do can match it as the government embarks on a great big IT outsourcing program. Should be fun.

Now the proof, are we any better of with this current administration even after such a short time? I don't think so and there's about 14000 people who might have something to say about that as well. 

Yes, its all about getting the balance right for sure.

That's all fine Keith but Labor had years to screw things up. And did a fine job of it. You can't fix that in one term. You try to get some of the bad stuff out of the way in the first couple of years and hope you can show some positives in year 3 before the next election.
The "balance"can only be judged after Campbell has had as many year sin office as Beatty/Bligh.

Fair call. I was just concerned we had swapped one incompetent set of snouts at the trough for another based on what I had seen so far. I guess we should wait and see how it works out. If only we could outsource our politicians...

[Aussie Keith]

Breaking News.......

Prime Minister Rudd and PNG's Prime Minister have just signed a Regional Resettlement Agreement. The RRA will see all refugees that arrive in Australia will be processed under existing arrangements (Christmas Island, Naru or Manus Island). Those found to be genuine refugees will be resettled in PNG. Those who are found to not be genuine refugees will be returned to their country of origin. NO refugees will re resettled in Australia.

Looks like Kev might stop the boats.

Let's see what Mr Abbott has to say about this.

I dare say this speech by his Immigration Minister may provide some fodder.....


Labor committed to abolishing the Pacific Solution and this was one the first things the Rudd Labor Government did on taking office.  It was also one of my greatest pleasures in politics.  Neither humane nor fair, the Pacific Solution was also ineffective and wasteful.

At massive cost to the Australian taxpayer – I am advised that the Department of Immigration and Citizenship expended $309.8 million between September 2001 and 29 February 2008 to run the Nauru and Manus Offshore Processing Centres (OPCs) – the Howard government sought to outsource our international protection obligations to less developed countries when we should have been shouldering them ourselves…

 The Pacific Solution was not about maintaining integrity or public confidence in Australia’s arrangements.  It was about the cynical politics of punishing refugees for domestic political purposes.

So which one is it?

I have Tony's response hot off the press right here. 

http://www.youtube.com/v/DtMV44yoXZ0

Good find UM. I'm going to wear this out I think.

[Ugly Mongrel]

It took a bit of finding, Gonz, but go ahead and fill ya boots.

[Doggie 1]

According to economists such as Professor Joseph Stiglitz it is precisely the level of stimulus spending Australia opted for when the GFC hit that saved Australia from a disastrous recession. If Hockey becomes Treasurer in September, he will inherit the world’s best- managed economy by a street.

 
That did make me laugh out loud.
Lucky that they inherited such a good set of books from Liberal then because if they hadn't, they wouldn't have had it to spend on pink batts and school buildings that weren't required.

If Joe Hockey becomes Treasurer at the election he will be inheriting a massive task to yet again reel in the massive and reckless spending we have seen since 2007.

Don't fall for the spin that Labor put on it. It is just spin.

[Dazzler]

A nice balanced argument guys well done I'm not going to buy into it or take sides ..

All I will say is..

db08 for Prime Minister
Surferdude for Deputy

and..

Beerman for Treasurer 

[Doggie 1]

 

[Ugly Mongrel]

A nice balanced argument guys well done I'm not going to buy into it or take sides ..

All I will say is..

db08 for Prime Minister
Surferdude for Deputy

and..

Beerman for Treasurer 

UM for Speaker???

[Doggie 1]

A nice balanced argument guys well done I'm not going to buy into it or take sides ..

All I will say is..

db08 for Prime Minister
Surferdude for Deputy

and..

Beerman for Treasurer 

UM for Speaker???

No, bugger off.
You're banished to the Opposition benches. 

[beerman]

According to economists such as Professor Joseph Stiglitz it is precisely the level of stimulus spending Australia opted for when the GFC hit that saved Australia from a disastrous recession. If Hockey becomes Treasurer in September, he will inherit the world’s best- managed economy by a street.

 
That did make me laugh out loud.
Lucky that they inherited such a good set of books from Liberal then because if they hadn't, they wouldn't have had it to spend on pink batts and school buildings that weren't required.

If Joe Hockey becomes Treasurer at the election he will be inheriting a massive task to yet again reel in the massive and reckless spending we have seen since 2007.

Don't fall for the spin that Labor put on it. It is just spin.

Oh they all spin brother.....

If only they had have given the schools some cash and let them build what they wanted.....All schools could have managed their own build and gotten what they wanted for far less money.

Whilst I'm happy for the coin I received during the GFC, I'm sure that it could have been better spent on the Bruce Highway, upgrades to Brisbane's CBD rail tracks, a hospital or something we could actually look back and say, we have all this debt, and this is what we got for it.

[beerman]

A nice balanced argument guys well done I'm not going to buy into it or take sides ..

All I will say is..

db08 for Prime Minister
Surferdude for Deputy

and..

Beerman for Treasurer 

Treasurer, no one ever likes the treasurer. Especially when he is as cheap as I am.

[Doggie 1]

According to economists such as Professor Joseph Stiglitz it is precisely the level of stimulus spending Australia opted for when the GFC hit that saved Australia from a disastrous recession. If Hockey becomes Treasurer in September, he will inherit the world’s best- managed economy by a street.

 
That did make me laugh out loud.
Lucky that they inherited such a good set of books from Liberal then because if they hadn't, they wouldn't have had it to spend on pink batts and school buildings that weren't required.

If Joe Hockey becomes Treasurer at the election he will be inheriting a massive task to yet again reel in the massive and reckless spending we have seen since 2007.

Don't fall for the spin that Labor put on it. It is just spin.

Oh they all spin brother.....

If only they had have given the schools some cash and let them build what they wanted.....All schools could have managed their own build and gotten what they wanted for far less money.

Whilst I'm happy for the coin I received during the GFC, I'm sure that it could have been better spent on the Bruce Highway, upgrades to Brisbane's CBD rail tracks, a hospital or something we could actually look back and say, we have all this debt, and this is what we got for it.

I didn't get a cent.
But then again, I don't think anyone should have got a cent.
All it did was allow people to purchase Chinese made TVs and prop up another country's economy.
You are right. For far, far, far, far less than they spent, they could have built a new major hospital in every capital city and poured money into untold things that Australians could have benefited from.
But instead, they wasted it and now it has to be paid back.
Truth is, they are just clueless.