[Surferdude]

Daz or Steve need to change the title on this now.

[Phil №❶]

I tried but the 1st post is an Admin one, so no go, PM'd Shambles but he isn't around ATM.

[Doggie 1]

I tried but the 1st post is an Admin one, so no go, PM'd Shambles but he isn't around ATM.

He's not at the ATM?
Bugger.
I wanted paying.   

[Shambles]

Good work, whoever did it

Now, who gets the 50 points...

[Doggie 1]

I think it might be Phlip. 

[FatBoy]

So to sum up then.
DRLs are a good thing. 
Volvo had it right when they introduced DRLs on Volvos in Australia in 1975. 
DRLs make a car more visible to most people.
There.
Done.   
And by the way, not sure about a backward state like Tasmania, but in Western Australia (with the caveat that unless things have changed and I missed something), it's illegal to have fog lights on at the same time as headlights. One or the other.
This link may be helpful.   
Daytime running lights, headlights, fog lights and driving lights - Allianz Australia

I think you've missed something Dave.  DRLs are one or the other, they are considered fog lights if they stay on when the headlights are on.

From the Road Safety WA web page (see the car with both headlights and fog lights on):

http://www.police.wa.gov.au/Traffic/Roadsafety/tabid/991/Default.aspx#foglights

But the penalty page says what Dave says:

A person shall not drive a motor vehicle displaying light from front fog light, if any other light of a power exceeding 7 watts and capable of showing a white light to the front is alight.
Points: 1 Modified penalty: 2 PU

http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/licensing/LBU_VS_IB_123.pdf

What happens if it is foggy at night?

In Tassie, like other states, you can only use fog lights "in fog or other hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility".  This includes rain, fog, dust storms or snow fall.

Front Fog Lights - Transport

[Doggie 1]

So to sum up then.
DRLs are a good thing. 
Volvo had it right when they introduced DRLs on Volvos in Australia in 1975. 
DRLs make a car more visible to most people.
There.
Done.   
And by the way, not sure about a backward state like Tasmania, but in Western Australia (with the caveat that unless things have changed and I missed something), it's illegal to have fog lights on at the same time as headlights. One or the other.
This link may be helpful.   
Daytime running lights, headlights, fog lights and driving lights - Allianz Australia

I think you've missed something Dave.  DRLs are one or the other, they are considered fog lights if they stay on when the headlights are on.

From the Road Safety WA web page (see the car with both headlights and fog lights on):

http://www.police.wa.gov.au/Traffic/Roadsafety/tabid/991/Default.aspx#foglights

But the penalty page says what Dave says:

A person shall not drive a motor vehicle displaying light from front fog light, if any other light of a power exceeding 7 watts and capable of showing a white light to the front is alight.
Points: 1 Modified penalty: 2 PU

http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/licensing/LBU_VS_IB_123.pdf

What happens if it is foggy at night?

In Tassie, like other states, you can only use fog lights "in fog or other hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility".  This includes rain, fog, dust storms or snow fall.

Front Fog Lights - Transport

No, Jamie.
Fog lights and DRLs are two different things.
Cars with fog lights can only use them in inclement weather.
DRLs are on all the time.
They are not one and the same.
DRLs are not considered fog lights if they stay on with the headlights.

[FatBoy]

Yes Dave, we are saying the same thing.  I think I might have confused myself and you with my post.

DRLs can be used at all times, but only when the headlights are off.  Fog lights can only be used in inclement weather.

From one of the links I posted, on how to differentiate between the two.

Front Fog Lights:- These are optional lights which are designed and fitted to improve the lighting of the road ahead during times of reduced visibility.  If fitted they must be aligned to the front of the vehicle so as not to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to oncoming drivers and other road user.

They may only emit white or yellow light; and
They must be able to be switched on and off independent of the high and low beam headlamps.
There must be a non flashing tell-tale light displayed on the dashboard and visible to the driver which illuminates when the front fog lights are on.
If they stay on when the headlights are on they are fog lights


Day Time Running Lights:- These are optional forward facing lights which are designed and fitted to make the motor vehicle more easily visible to other road users when driving during daytime.

They must be aligned to the front of the vehicle so as not to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to oncoming drivers and other road user;
They may only emit white light;
They must switch off automatically when the headlights are switched on;
If they go off when the headlights are turned on they are daytime running lights.

Front Fog Lights - Transport

BTW, I like DRLs (which I don't have), just like I like my fog lights (which I do have), which I put on during periods of reduced visibility (haze, rain, fog, snow).

[Doggie 1]

 

[eye30]

Drive with fog lights on over here in the Wild West when there's no inclement weather and you won't get very far.

Do that here and plod takes no notice.

Seems fog lights on on a sunny day is the norn here for go faster boys

[eye30]

Never checked mine whether drl's go off when fogs on.

Will need to wait until next foggy to check otherwise i'll be done by plod

[baroudeur]

Mine stay on as well with side/park lights and it's a European. For 100 euro's i can have them stay on with the headlights too !!

What does the €100 buy and what would be the point of DRLs and headlamps together??? 

 Under EU regs DRL's must extinguish or  dim to parking light level when headlamps are on .

[eye30]

Never checked mine whether drl's go off when fogs on.

Will need to wait until next foggy to check otherwise i'll be done by plod

Flouting the law i checked mine.

Fogs only turn on when parkers/sidelights on and drl's go out......... because parkers/side lights are on.

So i can not have drl's on with the fogs on....

[bumpkin]

Never checked mine whether drl's go off when fogs on.

Will need to wait until next foggy to check otherwise i'll be done by plod

Flouting the law i checked mine.

Fogs only turn on when parkers/sidelights on and drl's go out......... because parkers/side lights are on.

So i can not have drl's on with the fogs on....

I wondered why the UK Hyundai switches them off when the Kia doesn't?  So I went for a look......

It is model specific so whilst the i30 and Cee'd on the base and mid spec models have DRL arrangements they also have sidelights as well as dipped and main beam bulbs, hence when the sidelights go on, the DRL's are deemed no longer necessary and go out.

On my Cee'd and I assume the Premium Hyundai's the lamp cluster is the same but with the Xenon swivel headlamps the hole for the sidelight bulb is grommetted (is that a word??) and the DRL's shine at max intensity when no other lighting is on, when I switch on my lights (either manually or automatically) the DRL's reduce intensity and ACT as the sidelights but they never go out.

Looking at the pic of the Aus i30, it would appear that even with the headlights on the DRL's stay at max intensity which would take into account the different daylight level previously discussed and may be an attempt at proving that even in a traditionally brighter environment that they have a place.

Surely if they save even one person being involved in a fatal/serious incident then that is a good thing?  If anybody has any evidence to show that they have CAUSED or created a problem then the discussion would be valid, I think the bling argument is long gone, as stated they are so commonplace now, jeez even Dacia have them!

EDIT:  The mid range i40 DRL's also stayed on all the time, again with reduced intensity when normal lighting is on.

[Johnno]

It's more of a safety thing more so in Europe than say Aus or the states as some of your town centre roads are wider than some of motorways especially the likes of the states.
Like dave said volvo started it off with dimmed headlight's when you first switched on the ignition then they changed that idea to normal dipped headlights and now they've changed over to drl's.

Our roads in the UK are more congested than most other counties, and it's all about  other road user's seeing one another, be it pedestrians, cyclist's, motorcyclist and vehicle's. A lot of the roads are so narrow if a car is parked on the side of the road and 2 vehicles are approaching from opposite directions the one car approaching the parked car on his side of the road as to give way to the other vehicle

What I have noticed say there'a a line of vehicle's coming in the opposite direction and say a car as dlr's about 3 or 4 cars down I seem to notice him more than the other cars.

Same goes for motorcyclists, when I switch my ignition on the dipped headlights come on and survey's have shown than motorcyclists are more prone to be hit by vehicles coming out of side roads where the driver has not seem them, its not stopped all the accidents but it as helped to reduce them.

[CraigB]

Looking at the pic of the Aus i30, it would appear that even with the headlights on the DRL's stay at max intensity which would take into account the different daylight level previously discussed and may be an attempt at proving that even in a traditionally brighter environment that they have a place.

That Pic is my Euro 3dr i30 in Aus the headlights aren't on either...they're the park lights, once the headlights switch on to low or high beam the DRL's go off

[eye30]

A lot of the roads are so narrow if a car is parked on the side of the road and 2 vehicles are approaching from opposite directions the one car approaching the parked car on his side of the road as to give way to the other vehicle

Not around here.


Had many a near miss when i have have right of way and car from other direction just steams through expecting you to give way........

The driver comes through and put hand up to thank you!

[AlanHo]

You gotta give me some credit for waving to you...

[Wingerdave]

Mine stay on as well with side/park lights and it's a European. For 100 euro's i can have them stay on with the headlights too !!

What does the €100 buy and what would be the point of DRLs and headlamps together??? 

 Under EU regs DRL's must extinguish or  dim to parking light level when headlamps are on .

It's an official Hyundai option from the dealer. I never said i was going to do it.

That being said, i do see Audi's, Mecedes and BMW's with the DRL's and headlights on at the same time. Now that is being blingy !!!!

[Johnno]

really we should be thanking the aftermarket sector for these Drl's, they started it off with the 'led strips' 'angel eyes' and the 5 watt projection lamp unit you could buy to fit onto the front of your chariot as a add on

[Dazzler]

really we should be thanking the aftermarket sector for these Drl's, they started it off with the 'led strips' 'angel eyes' and the 5 watt projection lamp unit you could buy to fit onto the front of your chariot as a add on

True, although some will thank them more than others .. 

[rustynutz]

And by the way, not sure about a backward state like Tasmania, but in Western Australia (with the caveat that unless things have changed and I missed something), it's illegal to have fog lights on at the same time as headlights. One or the other.
This link may be helpful.   
Daytime running lights, headlights, fog lights and driving lights - Allianz Australia

Pretty sure in Victoria it's not illegal to have both fog & headlights on at the same time...(obviously in adverse conditions) 
Also, thanks for that link, Dave....I found it very interesting that the info put up said drl's had a high potential to improve road safety....What!!! No proof???   

[constipated]

I don't understand Rusty's reasoning.

Headlights and tail-lights are OK in inclement weather, obviously because they increase visibility of the car but somehow DRLs are a disservice. Do they not increase visibility just like headlights?

Yes perhaps their benefit is less on a bright summer's day but that's not every day conditions. Heck it's been cloudy for the whole week in Sydney.

Even in sunny conditions, Rusty, haven't you driven at dusk or dawn directly into the direction of the sun and tried to make out oncoming cars against the glare, or had to look in your rear view mirror with the sun behind you as you tried to see if it was safe to change lanes. Take a moment to see whether DRLs make a difference then. I'm sure the 90% of us here who support DRLs don't all need our eyes checked.

Even today, pouring rain in Sydney. Yes 60% of people put their headlights on but 40% do not. DRL's make a big difference particularly as that 40% of drivers are just not accustomed to putting on their lights rather than forgetting.

Thankfully safety experts think differently to Rusty. ANCAP safety ratings will now award points when DRLs are present. That will add extra impetus for it to become a standard safety inclusion.

I wonder Rusty if you had the same opposition to high mount centre stop lights?

[Surferdude]

Let me say at this point I don't have any problem with DHLs. I also agree with others that anything which even "might" increase visibility is a good thing.

But I wanted to tell a little story about the Volvo "lights on in daylight" thing. Back in the day when this was the go, I had a couple of people tell me something interesting about the practice.
One was an advertising guy who worked on the Volvo account in Oz. The other was with Volvo Trucks.
Both said it was common knowledge in the company that the lights on thing was more about "look at me" than just safety.
Basically they judged the success of the practice by how many people saw a car with its lights on in daylight and said something like, "OH. That'll be a Volvo".
In other words, a marketing ploy as much as a safety factor - which of course it was as well.

[Dazzler]

  for sharing that Trev.. 

[constipated]

In other words, a marketing ploy as much as a safety factor - which of course it was as well.

But correct me if I remember incorrectly but weren't the Volvo lights just like parking lights which are "dim as"!

I do think modern ones serve much better safety wise,  so much so that I added aftermarket ones to my FD i30. Don't care anything for bling factor. I know they look nowhere near as good as OEM ones but that's not the point. I have a dark grey car, and I know how well it can blend into surroundings.

[Doggie 1]

In other words, a marketing ploy as much as a safety factor - which of course it was as well.

But correct me if I remember incorrectly but weren't the Volvo lights just like parking lights which are "dim as"!

I do think modern ones serve much better safety wise,  so much so that I added aftermarket ones to my FD i30. Don't care anything for bling factor. I know they look nowhere near as good as OEM ones but that's not the point. I have a dark grey car, and I know how well it can blend into surroundings.

No, the Volvo DRLs on the 244 series cars were a lot brighter than the parking lights on the same cars.
I owned two Volvos from that era, a 244 GL and a 264 GLE - great cars.

[Dazzler]

In other words, a marketing ploy as much as a safety factor - which of course it was as well.

But correct me if I remember incorrectly but weren't the Volvo lights just like parking lights which are "dim as"!

I do think modern ones serve much better safety wise,  so much so that I added aftermarket ones to my FD i30. Don't care anything for bling factor. I know they look nowhere near as good as OEM ones but that's not the point. I have a dark grey car, and I know how well it can blend into surroundings.

No, the Volvo DRLs on the 244 series cars were a lot brighter than the parking lights on the same cars.
I owned two Volvos from that era, a 244 GL and a 264 GLE - great cars.

I liked the front on the 264, classy.. remember my Mum and Stepdad had a Volvo dealership in those days...

[AlanHo]

Volvo have always made great strides in car safety - and push it as a marketing tool.

1944 - safety cage
1944 - laminated windscreen
1957 - anchor points for two–point safety belts, front
1958 - anchor points for two–point safety belts, rear
1959 – three-point safety belt, standard in front seats
1964 - rearward–facing child safety seat, first prototype tested
1966 - crumple zones front and rear
1966 - safety door–locks
1969 - inertia-reel safety belts
1971 - reminder safety belt
1972 - three-point safety belt, outer rear seats
1972 - rearward–facing child safety seat
1974 - multistage impact absorbing steering column
1974 - bulb integrity sensor
1975 - braking system with stepped bore master cylinder
1978 - child safety booster cushion
1982 - "anti–submarining" protection
1986 - three-point safety belt, centre rear seat
1990 - integrated child safety cushion, centre rear seat
1991 - Side Impact Protection System
1991 - automatic height adjusting safety belt
1992 - reinforced rear seats, estate models
1995 - integrated child safety cushion, outer rear seats
1997 – Roll Over Protection System (C70)
1998 – Whiplash Protection System
1998 – Inflatable Curtain
2001 - SCC – Volvo Safety concept car
2002 – Roll Stability Control
2003 - Volvo Intelligent Vehicle Architecture, new front structure (S40, V50)
2003 - rear seat belt reminders (S40, V50)
2003 – Intelligent Driver Information System, a system that selectively blocks information to the driver in complex traffic situations and lets the information through once the situation has calmed down (S40, V50)
2003 - Volvo's Traffic Accident Research Team, inaugurated in Bangkok
2004 - Blind Spot Information System, informs the driver of vehicles in the blind spots, using a yellow LED in the A-pillars (S40, V50)
2005 – Door Mounted Inflatable Curtain (C70)
2006 - Personal Car Communicator (S80)
2006 - Collision Warning Brake Support, a system that warns the driver and gives brake support when a collision with another vehicle in front of the car is imminent (S80)
2006 – Electrical Parking Brake (S80)
2007 - Driver Alert Control, a driver drowsiness detection system that alerts the driver when the system detects that they are becoming tired (S80, V70, XC70)
2007 – Lane Departure Warning, a system that warns the driver for unintended lane departures (S80, V70, XC70)
2007 – Collision Warning with Auto Brake, a system that automatically brakes the car when a collision with another vehicle in front of the car is imminent (S80, V70, XC70)
2007 – Distance Alert, a system that helps the driver keeping a safe distance to the vehicle ahead, by continuously measuring the distance and lighting up the vehicle's head up display if the time gap becomes shorter than what the driver has specified (S80, V70, XC70)
2007 - Alcoguard, a hand-held device that the driver blows into before they can start the car, mainly aimed for the company-car sector, taxi operators, state authorities and municipalities (S80, V70, XC70)
2008 - City Safety, a system that automatically brakes the car at speeds below 30 km/h (19 mph) if an obstruction is detected in front of the car (new XC60)
2010 - Pedestrian Detection with Auto Brake, a system that warns the driver and automatically brakes the car when a collision with a pedestrian in front of the car is imminent (S60)
2012 - pedestrian airbag, covering the A-pillars and the lower part of the windscreen in case of collision with a pedestrian (V40)
2012 - knee airbag, for the driver (V40)
2012 - Upgraded City Safety, now working up to 50 km/h (31 mph) (S80, V70, XC70, XC60, S60, V60, new V40)
2012 - Lane Keeping Aid, a system that steers the car back into the lane again if it is about to unintentionally drift out of the lane (V40)
2012 – Road Sign Information, a system that reads road signs and displays them in the information display, thereby helping the driver to remember speed limits, no-overtaking stretches, low-speed areas, etc. (S80, V70, XC70, XC60, S60, V60, V40)
2012 - Enhanced Blind Spot Information System, now able to detect approaching vehicles up to 70 meters behind the car (V40)
2012 – Cross Traffic Alert, alerting the driver of crossing traffic approaching from the sides (up to 30 meters away) when reversing out of a parking space (V40)
2013 - Cyclist Detection with Auto Brake, a system that warns the driver and automatically brakes the car when a collision with a cyclist travelling in the same direction as the car in front of the car is imminent (S80, V70, XC70, XC60, S60, V60, V40)

The highlighted ones are Volvo inventions for which they hold patents

[Johnno]

Daytime running lights | AA