[Surferdude]

Been talking to ElleB about the tyre wear on his wife's diesel CW.
Here are the pics.








Car has 54,000 klms on the clock and has had 4 wheel alignments in the last 13,000 klms or so. The second one was at a Hyundai dealer and is nothing like the one before it. The next two are consistent so I'm tending to believe the tyre place rather than Hyundai as to accuracy.
Anyway, as thse tyres ahve been on for about 30,000 klms and are now worn out Tony is concerned that he may have a problem which will continue into his replacement tyres.
However, I feel that if he sticks with the tyre guy for alignments he won't have a problem.
Having said that, hte amount of inside shoulder wear on thse tyres is, in my opinion, not overly severe, considering the damage could have been done in the early life of these tyres. Once that happens, no amount of aligning is going to put back the missing rubber so the worn area will always be the first to wear right out.
Also, these tyres are worn down to the tread wear indicators right across the tyres, so adding a marginal amount across the whole tyre by preventing the shoulder wear would have meant nothing. The tyres would still be worn out at 30,000 klms.
So, why only 30,000 klms? It's what I got out of mine (see separate story), although mine were 15" and Tony's 16".
Some on here have reported considerably more life out of their tyres. I hav eno answer for this any more than I did for my own. But I DID change brands and the result is already astoundingly better.
Given the fact that Tony appears happy to pay for periodic wheel alignments I've suggested he look at the Mastercraft tyres which have a mileage guarantee, although they have a different speed rating - load index is OK though.
There will be others which will give good mileage. He may well be best served by asking for a recommendation form his wheel aligner.

[Surferdude]

BTW. Tony was concerned these pics weren't clear enough and offered to re-take them without the sand on the tread but, really they're clear enough for me.

[Phil №❶]

considering the damage could have been done in the early life of these tyres. Once that happens, no amount of aligning is going to put back the missing rubber so the worn area will always be the first to wear right out.

Some members regularly rotate their wheels to even out tyre wear. If the wear is uneven, what is the theory of putting these tyres to the rear, only to damage a perfectly good rear tyre by swapping them to the front. If the wear is severely uneven, then the cause should be investigated and I would put new fronts on once the problem has been eradicated, if possible.

[Surferdude]

considering the damage could have been done in the early life of these tyres. Once that happens, no amount of aligning is going to put back the missing rubber so the worn area will always be the first to wear right out.

Some members regularly rotate their wheels to even out tyre wear. If the wear is uneven, what is the theory of putting these tyres to the rear, only to damage a perfectly good rear tyre by swapping them to the front. If the wear is severely uneven, then the cause should be investigated and I would put new fronts on once the problem has been eradicated, if possible.

That's what's happening here.
But again, the amount of uneven wear on these tyres is minimal. I would have to see the rears (and in this case they are originals so the equation doesn't quite work) but I'm personally not an advocate of tyre rotation.
It has become fashionable because front wheel drive cars of all types generally wear the fronts out at a rate of about 2.5 to 3 times the rears. And tyres are a grudge purchase. So people would rather buy four and be done with it than two more often. It's a bit silly I know because they still have to come in to have them rotated.
Anyway, by rotating regularly - somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000 klms you can even out the wear so all 4 go at about the same time.
But I agree with you, if there's an issue, why compound it by putting good tyres in the problem zone.
First things first.
Make sure your alignment is correct and as someone said it should be a 4 wheel alignment. But with any car which is adjustable front and rear that should be a given.
Then select a tyre.
Then decide whether you want to rotate or not.
But there's another issue here. Tyres on either the front or the back can wear through alignment issues. So careful visual inspection on a regular basis is necessary. And paying particular attention to shoulder wear which, if we are talking about a 1 mm difference across the tread face as in the pics above, then you need to accurately measure them with a guage. 'Coz the naked eye will not pick up the difference in any tyre with more than about a third of the tread still on it.

[Phil №❶]

My comment was made on the assumption that the rears are wearing evenly. I don't rotate and yes once the fronts are gone I prefer to have fresh new ones up front. With FWD & Diesel, I expect they will work hard. BTW what tread wear factor are people using. Mine are 400's.

[Surferdude]

I'm afraid to have to tell you that tread wear ratings are one of the greatest marketing cons ever perpetrated on the buying public. (IMHO).
They are open to all sorts of misinterpretation and ar eprobably only useful for comparing within a particular brand.

From Tirerack.com
When looking at UTQG ratings it is important to realize that the Department of Transportation does not conduct the tests. The grades are assigned by the tire manufacturers based on their test results or those conducted by an independent testing company they have hired. The NHTSA has the right to inspect the tire manufacturer's data and can fine them if inconsistencies are found. While most new tire lines have their grades established when they are introduced, they are allowed a 6-month grace period to allow the tire manufacturer to test actual production tires. Once a grade is assigned it must be branded on the tire's upper sidewall and printed on its label.
Unfortunately, the rating that is of the most interest to consumers is the one that appears to be the least consistent. While the Treadwear Grade was originally intended to be assigned purely scientifically, it has also become a marketing tool used by manufacturers to help position and promote their tires.


Then there's this.


The problem with UTQG Treadwear Grades is that they are open to some interpretation on the part of the tire manufacturer because they are assigned after the tire has only experienced a little treadwear as it runs the 7,200 miles. This means that the tire manufacturers need to extrapolate their raw wear data when they are assigning Treadwear Grades, and that their grades can to some extent reflect how conservative or optimistic their marketing department is. Typically, comparing the Treadwear Grades of tire lines within a single brand is somewhat helpful, while attempting to compare the grades between different brands is not as helpful.


My own observations over the years have born out the above comments as have those of many tyre people I've had in my training sessions.
I'm not saying disregard them completely but treat them as a guide only and not gospel, especially when comparing brands.

[Phil №❶]

Thanks for that, I didn't buy the tyres based on that info, I just mentioned in passing. But I won't give it much credibility in  the future, after what you have said. 

[Surferdude]

There's some good stuff on this site. It's not where I first got that info but it was easiest to find for the above post.
Worth bookmarking.

http://www.tirerack.com/index.jsp

[baroudeur]

42 psi on all 4,

That's way above recommended! In the event of an accident I wonder what a specialist  investigator might conclude?

Might be worth taking the time to read this, or at least skim it (50 pages).
Again, as I have said before, it is low pressure which is at fault in the vast majority of cases. Whilst I can find pages and pages of stuff about under-inflation, I've still to find any definitive info on "extreme" over inflation. (my definition - acknowledged). And 42 isn't in the "extreme" range. It is at the top end of what is acceptable for a passenger tyre.

I have now read the link which, to be quite honest, is a patchwork of various reports and reaches no real  conclusions overall.

As you cannot find any definitive information on " extreme" over-inflation how can you consider that 42 psi instead of 32 psi isn't extreme and is acceptable for a passenger tyre other than it is a personal opinion?
One thing that the report does mention in relation to over-inflation is that it leads to excessive wear in the centre of the tread and I am sure you would concur with that. 
It also mentions that tyre pressures are reached as a result of both tyre and vehicle manufacturers' test conclusions.  Having worked for many years for a  major vehicle manufacturer  in the SVO department and with my father in law in the engineering department for over 30 years I prefer to stick with what the manufacturer requires knowing how the results are attained.

Edit:  Just fitted my winter wheels (Dunlop WinterSport 4) to my 2011MY i30 diesel Comfort and measured the tread depth on the O.E. tyes.  At exactly 6000 miles - both fronts 6mm full width across tread and rears 7mm full width across tread. 
My wife has a 2007MY 1.1 Getz on which the O.E. Hankook front tyres, with even wear across the tread, were recently replaced  at 22,000 miles with  Michelin tyres.

[eye30]

I've said this on more than 1 occasion if an innocent parties vehicle is involved in an accident having tyre pressure which does not accord with the manufacturers speci then that vehicle may have contributed to the accident, indirectly.
i.e. stopping distance will be changed due to increased/decrease in pressure, the % of tyre in contact with road may be less. There could be "bounce" present.

I know here in the UK in some accidents the Police will check tyre pressure and report on them and "innocent" vehicles/drivers have been held liable.

[Surferdude]

I've said this on more than 1 occasion if an innocent parties vehicle is involved in an accident having tyre pressure which does not accord with the manufacturers speci then that vehicle may have contributed to the accident, indirectly.
i.e. stopping distance will be changed due to increased/decrease in pressure, the % of tyre in contact with road may be less. There could be "bounce" present.

I know here in the UK in some accidents the Police will check tyre pressure and report on them and "innocent" vehicles/drivers have been held liable.

Eye, Are some of those details on the public record? Any links would be appreciated. I've been unable to find any.
I agree with your comments about over-inflation. The only thing we seem to be at variance with is the definition of same. I'm happy with 40 psi (use 36 or 38 myself - depending onn a variety of conditions). What's your take on this?

[Surferdude]

42 psi on all 4,

That's way above recommended! In the event of an accident I wonder what a specialist  investigator might conclude?

Might be worth taking the time to read this, or at least skim it (50 pages).
Again, as I have said before, it is low pressure which is at fault in the vast majority of cases. Whilst I can find pages and pages of stuff about under-inflation, I've still to find any definitive info on "extreme" over inflation. (my definition - acknowledged). And 42 isn't in the "extreme" range. It is at the top end of what is acceptable for a passenger tyre.

I have now read the link which, to be quite honest, is a patchwork of various reports and reaches no real  conclusions overall.

As you cannot find any definitive information on " extreme" over-inflation how can you consider that 42 psi instead of 32 psi isn't extreme and is acceptable for a passenger tyre other than it is a personal opinion?
One thing that the report does mention in relation to over-inflation is that it leads to excessive wear in the centre of the tread and I am sure you would concur with that. 
It also mentions that tyre pressures are reached as a result of both tyre and vehicle manufacturers' test conclusions.  Having worked for many years for a  major vehicle manufacturer  in the SVO department and with my father in law in the engineering department for over 30 years I prefer to stick with what the manufacturer requires knowing how the results are attained.

Hi baradeur. Yes I agree the reoprt is a combination of excerpts from various reports. That's why I linked to it. You can go find some of those original reports in full and they say much the same thing.But the main point is that there appears to be no "definitive" definition of "over-inflation". Nor is there any reference material readily available detailing large scale investigation into the isssue.
In my opinion, this would indicate that there have not been enough incidents to warrant such a detailed examination.
And, yes. My comment about 42 not being extreme is based on personal opinion. One formed over as many years in the auto industry as you. Just seen from a slightly different perspective.
I must admit to being surprised you didn't have regular contact with tyre company engineers in your role.
In Oz, all vehicle manufacturers worked with tyre company engineers in developing new models, testing the best options both on road and in the laboratory for NVH performance. Certainly the Ford engineers had no issues with 40 psi.
Also true what you say about centre wear from high pressure. But there are other contributory factors. The rim width (there are "design" rims and "rim range" options for each tyre. Then the issue is magnified if the car spends a lot of time on the highway. The wider the tyre the more it is susceptible. And it almost never happens on the front tyres.

[eye30]

Eye, Are some of those details on the public record? Any links would be appreciated. I've been unable to find any.

http://www.the-car-doctor.com/tyres.htm

It’s reported that around 6% of fatal accidents on the UKs roads are caused by under-inflated tyres suddenly failing, and it is such a problem that you could be fined £2,500 per tyre if they are over or under-inflated enough to be considered un-roadworthy.

http://www.1888articles.com/over-under-inflated-tires-and-vehicle-accidents-0112352.html

In the event of an accident, even with a catastrophic tire failure, it may end up being the driver's fault for the failure of the tire. Tire manufacturers will vigorously defend their product and try to blame the driver for not maintaining proper tire pressure of possible.


http://www.thefloridafirm.com/improper-tire-inflation-truck-accidents.html

I agree with your comments about over-inflation. The only thing we seem to be at variance with is the definition of same. I'm happy with 40 psi (use 36 or 38 myself - depending onn a variety of conditions). What's your take on this?

http://www.maic.qld.gov.au/forms-publications-stats/pdfs/tyre-pressure-report-final.pdf

This report @ 2.2  quotes acceptable under inflation up to 25%.

Can't find any % for over inflation

[Surferdude]

^

Thanks for those. I'll have a read.

Just on the last point. 25% is wwaaayy too much. The loss of fuel economy and the increase in tyre temperature would be significant.
I have graphs somewhere. If I can find them I'll post them up. But not today.

[beerman]

I've said this on more than 1 occasion if an innocent parties vehicle is involved in an accident having tyre pressure which does not accord with the manufacturers speci then that vehicle may have contributed to the accident, indirectly.
i.e. stopping distance will be changed due to increased/decrease in pressure, the % of tyre in contact with road may be less. There could be "bounce" present.

I know here in the UK in some accidents the Police will check tyre pressure and report on them and "innocent" vehicles/drivers have been held liable.

The idea that who is at fault in an accident would be changed by how many PSI are in your tyres is with the greatest deal of respect ridiculous. The worst that could happen would be citing the driver for the defect.

I refuse to believe that there would be an instance of drivers being cited for defects for the tyres being 42psi, because there is every chance that their police vehicle has that level or higher.

You will see from this article that http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11652 quoted from Officer.com that the correct tyre pressure for the Crown Victoria is 44psi which is much higher than the 35psi recommended by Ford (as an aside they use the same rims and tyres on a vehicle which flips up onto two wheels, the pressure on those wheels? 100psi. Whilst I am not advocating this for road use, it is clear that exceeding the 32psi Hyundai recommend is neither reckless or dangerous.

Oh and I got 80,000k out of the last set of tyres on my old car, and 45,000k out of my tyres on the I30 and no excessive wear in the middle. I'm not saying that tyre pressure alone is responsible, but it has to help.

[davesnelson]

I have tried to reply to a PM sent by Tony in Oz, but his PM box is full - so here goes in the thread.

Hi Tony,

So far, so good is the message! My local dealer is very good but they had not come across this problem before because my i30 is one of the two oldest in Britain at 109,000 miles (174,000km). Thye contacted Hyundai HQ in Britain and received advice on a possible cure. Another dealer had put the vehicle up on ramps and loosened *all* the suspension joints and then lowered the car to the ground and re-tightened them all again; and that is what my dealer did. Prior to this excercise, they replaced the two front tyres (at cost price) with Pirelli P6000 as they were not sure about the Millennium (Avon) ZZR tyres that had been fitted previously.

Its been a couple of months now and all seems good. Wht the suspension or steering geometry should change, I don't know? I don't think my dealer knows either. But as I said in the opening - so far, so good. I wish you all the best with your i30.

Cheers for now
Dave

[Corky McBottle]

Bought my 11/07 build diesel at 90,000km with 2 new tyres on the front. Had all 4 replaced at ~135,000km and rotated last week during 150,000km service at Hyundai centre. They didn't mention any uneven wearing - and I think they would've noticed if there was. So no problems here so far.

[Dazzler]

Good info Corky (and good to see you posting again) Don't be a stranger...

[2i30s]

I've noticed that some i30 owners tyres are wearing out very early, and some of us are getting extremely good life out of a set of tyres.    the wife's cw is almost at 40,000kms on the original tyres,they still only look half worn. 

[Phil №❶]

Is your wife a conservative driver. Taking a few k's of when cornering & braking makes quite a difference. 

[Surferdude]

Time for an update on this I think.

I've reproduces some extracts from throughout the thread which IMHO reflect what's important here. Sorry - just noticed the third point is reproducing very small. I'll try to put a link to the post. Sorry, Can't fix it. Maybe later.

But above all, my advice is this.
1/ Select your new tyres carefully.
2/ Try to stick with one tyre retailer who also does good FOUR WHEEL alignments.
3/ Arrange for a carefull visual inspection esp. of the front tyres at 5,000 klms. Should be free (and check the pressures).
4/ Set the new tyres at a pressure towards the UPPER level of the TYRE manufacturer's recommendation.
5/ Ensure they never get more than 4 or 5 psi below that before re-filling.
6/ To rotate or not to rotate is your own choice.
7/ Learn how to inspect your tyres yourself - turn the front wheels on full lock and pay carefull attention to the tread depths and any feathering on either shoulder.
8/ Feel free to take a pic or 2 and post on here for my attention any time.



From me

And, to date, I've not seen any evidence of a serious mechanical design fault causing inside shoulder wear. My gut feeling is that, even if the suspension has sagged with age due to the excess(?) weight (which is pretty minimal, really), then any halfway decent wheel aligner would be able to make an adjustment to counter it. To just say that the wear is caused by the suspension sagging is to say they aren't a capable aligner. In short, if the inside shoulders are wearing, the alignment MUST be out of adjustment. Also, if the suspension was soft enough to cause this, the car would be darting and diving all over the road on anything less than a perfectly even surface.


from eye30         
What about the effect of tyre pressure.
 
 I read that under/over psi can contribute to how the car handles and can sometimes be a major factor in an accident and reported so by accident investigators.
 
 There have been posting on this and other sites that some owners are running their tyres with more psi than manufactures recommend.
 
 Surely by running at a psi not recommended must contribute to tyre wear - inside/outside shoulders, centre etc....
 
 I've had my car for over 4 years, OK only 23K miles, keep the psi to that recommended and my tyres are not showing any sign of adverse wear and I've not required a wheel alignment.Post by: surferdude on 28-11-2011, 20:42:19 Quote from: 847563 on 28-11-2011, 20:05:04Quote from: surferdude on 28-11-2011, 19:51:21considering the damage could have been done in the early life of these tyres. Once that happens, no amount of aligning is going to put back the missing rubber so the worn area will always be the first to wear right out.
 Some members regularly rotate their wheels to even out tyre wear. If the wear is uneven, what is the theory of putting these tyres to the rear, only to damage a perfectly good rear tyre by swapping them to the front. If the wear is severely uneven, then the cause should be investigated and I would put new fronts on once the problem has been eradicated, if possible.That's what's happening here.
 But again, the amount of uneven wear on these tyres is minimal. I would have to see the rears (and in this case they are originals so the equation doesn't quite work) but I'm personally not an advocate of tyre rotation.
 It has become fashionable because front wheel drive cars of all types generally wear the fronts out at a rate of about 2.5 to 3 times the rears. And tyres are a grudge purchase. So people would rather buy four and be done with it than two more often. It's a bit silly I know because they still have to come in to have them rotated.
 Anyway, by rotating regularly - somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000 klms you can even out the wear so all 4 go at about the same time.
 But I agree with you, if there's an issue, why compound it by putting good tyres in the problem zone.
 First things first.
 Make sure your alignment is correct and as someone said it should be a 4 wheel alignment. But with any car which is adjustable front and rear that should be a given.
 Then select a tyre.
 Then decide whether you want to rotate or not.
 But there's another issue here. Tyres on either the front or the back can wear through alignment issues. So careful visual inspection on a regular basis is necessary. And paying particular attention to shoulder wear which, if we are talking about a 1 mm difference across the tread face as in the pics above, then you need to accurately measure them with a guage. 'Coz the naked eye will not pick up the difference in any tyre with more than about a third of the tread still on it.

[Dazzler]

Excellent summary thanks Trevor 

[ElleB]

Thanks guys for all the comment and in put...

 Sorry that my thanks was late in coming...had another short stint in hospital, and some days away from work, sure creates a backlog!!

Thanks to Trevor also for the time spent to put this together...   

 For mine, I will be changing these tyres in the Christmas break...still debating who to use, but I will keep you posted on the results.

I didnt get any positive replies re availablity of  a "spare" good nick Kumho 195.65.15....that might be sitting around as a result of a rim or tyre brand change... so I just mention it again here, in case my plea was missed.... it would just help me to use up the brand new case I have stashed away, thus allowing me to use up all 4 tyres and then switch to the Mastercraft or suchlike...  C'mon guys... check that shed or garage!!!

 I am tempted to go with the Mastercraft ones, with the deeper tread, sure their rating is lower, but who goes at those speeds anyway, it is not realy an issue... anyone else running them ?

Sure wish those adjustable links that come out of Korea were  a bit cheaper.... would be nice to have each wheel fully adjustable and would take out some of that " uncertainty" when it comes to alignments..


Thanks again..    drive safe .

 Elle B

[Dazzler]

...had another short stint in hospital,

Sorry to hear that 

Good idea to mention the tyre again.. things get so active on here these days it is easy to miss a thread (I try to read all of them but some don't get the time) 

[Keith]

iF THIS IS ONLY AN ISSUE ON THE DIESEL VERSIONS, MAY THIS NOT BE CAUSED BY THE 2 MAJOR DIFFERENCES TO THE PETROL VERSIONS?

wEIGHT & TORQUE?

i KNOW MY FRONT TYRES ON MY LAST CAR STRUGGLED TO DO MORE THAN 20,000 MILES.

Damn... sorry for the cApsLOcKdysLExIa!

[Dazzler]

yEAH i gUESS the torque could be a small contributing factor ...

[Keith]

yEAH i gUESS the torque could be a small contributing factor ...

My excuse is typing in the dark... you're just extracting the Michael! 

[Surferdude]

iF THIS IS ONLY AN ISSUE ON THE DIESEL VERSIONS, MAY THIS NOT BE CAUSED BY THE 2 MAJOR DIFFERENCES TO THE PETROL VERSIONS?

wEIGHT & TORQUE?

i KNOW MY FRONT TYRES ON MY LAST CAR STRUGGLED TO DO MORE THAN 20,000 MILES.

Damn... sorry for the cApsLOcKdysLExIa!

Hi ffoxy. Torque may have some bearing on the issues of "rapid" wear but not on the shoulder wear which seems to be the more prevalent issue. After all my originals (Hankook 195/65R15) lasted less than 30,000 klms and mine is a petrol engine. As I've said before I "play a bit" but I'm not doing anything I haven't done in previous cars but with better quality tyres on them.
Everything I've read on here seems pretty representative of the general motoring population and their vehicles which I've been dealing with for over 30 years (bloody hell - 36 years  ).
In the first instance, the longer tyres can last, the more obvious any uneven wear generated at some stage of their life, will become.
In the second instance, a lot of "cheaper/ budget" brands don't give as good life as one could hope for.

[Keith]

Hiya Surferdude, well you have far more tyre knowledge than I do for sure. I am though, one of those drivers who religiously checks / corrects tyre pressures every weekend, and so under / over inflation has never been an issue on any car I've had in 40 years of driving.
Shoulder wear I had always figured was down to tracking / castor / camber angles, unless BOTH shoulders were prematurely worn, indicative of under inflation. Maybe a Poll could highlight how these manifest themselves for a wider group of owners?

[Surferdude]

Hiya Surferdude, well you have far more tyre knowledge than I do for sure. I am though, one of those drivers who religiously checks / corrects tyre pressures every weekend, and so under / over inflation has never been an issue on any car I've had in 40 years of driving.
Shoulder wear I had always figured was down to tracking / castor / camber angles, unless BOTH shoulders were prematurely worn, indicative of under inflation. Maybe a Poll could highlight how these manifest themselves for a wider group of owners?

Good to hear from someone who checks their tyres regularly.
And your comments about shoulder wear are spot on.