Post by: chylld on September 28, 2008, 03:51:21
however i'm having a ridiculous amount of trouble finding an upgraded rear swaybar for the i30!! whiteline doesn't have one, and i can't seem to turn up anything on google either!
does anyone know of a place (pref in australia) that has one? (or would be able to make one?)
Post by: EymaTeapot on September 28, 2008, 08:55:50
I had my i30 lowered a bit but mostly because it looks tough.
I have noticed a small improvment in handling, not that there was ever much wrong with it before the modification either. It does corner really well though the ride is a bit harder than it used to be though still acceptable.
As for a sway bar, its not somthing that i ever considered so cant help you there.
Post by: chylld on September 28, 2008, 10:03:18
Post by: EymaTeapot on September 28, 2008, 10:39:07
I only had the springs replaced, pics above.
It lowered the car about 35mm I believe.
I had it done at Pedders suspension, I dont know if they are just a local or national company. From memory, it cost around $400. I am overall happy wilt the result.
Post by: chylld on September 28, 2008, 10:58:34
i'd imagine springs are relatively easy to change as there are standard sizes to choose from... swaybars have to be the same exact complicated twisted shape otherwise it won't fit. but bang for buck wise, they're supposed to be the best handling improvement you can make without sacrificing nvh.
Post by: teamgeorge on October 21, 2008, 10:57:19
i seen your pics with the lowering and the 18s and it looks as tough as guts, ive got my 18s on order after assessing how high it is i will go the pedders springs also.. did you get lows or super lows?
your cars also exceptional cos its the same as mines going to be
Post by: EymaTeapot on October 21, 2008, 11:30:47
Quote from: "teamgeorge"
hi EymaTeapot,
i seen your pics with the lowering and the 18s and it looks as tough as guts, ive got my 18s on order after assessing how high it is i will go the pedders springs also.. did you get lows or super lows?
your cars also exceptional cos its the same as mines going to be :)
I am not sure exactly what the springs were. I dont think they were super lows though as I requested that it be lowered just enough to make an impact but not so low that I scrap every time I go over a speed hump.
Look foward to pics of your car.
Post by: teamgeorge on October 21, 2008, 11:44:19
Post by: Phil on October 28, 2008, 00:15:35
Post by: chylld on October 28, 2008, 00:30:55
however no matter how smooth you are, if you want to do a tight corner at moderate speed, the car will roll, and no amount of driver skill (apart from slowing down to pedestrian speeds) can prevent that. a little swaybar will help a bit amount!
Post by: Phil on October 28, 2008, 03:56:12
Post by: Seoul-mate on October 28, 2008, 20:48:15
under the "i30 Links" category on this forum.
Russ
Post by: chylld on October 28, 2008, 22:35:06
Quote from: "Seoul-mate"
Check out the Korean tuning and modifications website I posted
under the "i30 Links" category on this forum.
Russ
thanks for the link! two suitable products here (http://www.carspeed.co.kr/FrontStore/iGoodsView.phtml?iCategoryId=8065&iCategoryIdMain=8084&iGoodsId=0808_00009&iCurrentPage=2) and here (http://www.carspeed.co.kr/FrontStore/iGoodsView.phtml?iCategoryId=8065&iCategoryIdMain=8084&iGoodsId=0191_00022&iCurrentPage=3).
now to save up for shipping
can you tell me whether the first link is the front or rear swaybar?
Post by: Seoul-mate on October 29, 2008, 10:08:58
Russ
Post by: Waja on October 29, 2008, 10:30:10
if that link doesnt work, just chuck shark racing into google and it should work. they have front struts, rear trailing arms and some coilovers as well i think...
Post by: chylld on October 29, 2008, 11:30:18
Quote from: "Seoul-mate"
Sorry Chylld...I'm not sure what you mean by "the first link".
Russ
this one (http://www.carspeed.co.kr/FrontStore/iGoodsView.phtml?iCategoryId=8065&iCategoryIdMain=8084&iGoodsId=0808_00009&iCurrentPage=2)
link_1111: thanks for the info...
Post by: I30Racer on October 31, 2008, 13:58:52
Looked at ebay..you will find many of lower springs for the I30 but the Maximum is actually 35 mm.
Post by: nizzkid on November 01, 2008, 02:09:42
Quote from: "I30Racer"
Hi ,
Looked at ebay..you will find many of lower springs for the I30 but the Maximum is actually 35 mm. ;)
Dont know about other eBay sites though.
Post by: G14Classified101 on January 23, 2009, 10:56:39
However for you guys around the world, yeah you could set it up a lot better and match us down under.
Post by: tzwientjuh on January 30, 2009, 16:40:12
Also a good site ;)
Post by: bobbyd on May 08, 2010, 05:06:12
If anyone lives near Taren Point NSW and can take in a front sway bar they are able to make a copy of the bar in larger/stiffer specs. I'd love a front bar also, but living in SA its not practical for mine to be measured up off of the car. So please let me know if anyone makes the effort to do this, I'm sure many will order once Signature have specs to go off.
Todd was very helpful and knowledgeable, he indicated to me rear sway bar upgrade on a front wheel drive will give the biggest handling improvement (70% versus 30% for front). He can make a front bar but needs the bar off the car in order to copy the shape owing to its more complex nature compared with the rear. Living in the hills I'll upgrade the front also when one is available so keep this post updated if anyone gets their front bar off the car and measured up.
Post by: Dazzler on May 08, 2010, 05:16:05
Post by: Pip on May 08, 2010, 09:10:10
I contacted Signature Sway Bars (02)95255619 and they have subsequently measured up the rear of an I30 at a dealer and are about to make an 18mm rear sway bar (standard is 14mm) posted to me for $235 with bushes to suit.This is probably the best bang for your buck with a terminal understeerer like we have. The rear sway-bar harnesses the body-roll to loosen the rear and counter the inherent understeer. So clever and no electronics required.:D
My opinion of the current setup is that the front/rear balance is, like most FWD cars, too conservatively biased towards maintaining the inherent understeer. Your change should make cornering more enjoyable.
Of all the front-drive cars I've owned I'll admit that an old Morris 1100 gave me a lot of driving pleasure purely because of the shift to quite strong oversteer on lift-off. You could drive quite fast around corners by throttle control of the balance. Not because of the power. :rolleyes:
The extra 4mm will increase stiffness by more than 2.5 times over the standard bar. How did you come to that specification? I'm not suggesting anything - I have no idea how thick I'd make it.
I'm very interested in your results from this mod but I would be less inclined to stiffen the front as well because it will tend to restore the original understeer and undoing the good work done by stiffening the rear!
I'm happy with the work done by manufacturers to reduce the torque steer with FWD cars but less impressed with the total dumbing down of the front/rear balance so that any oversteer is virtually impossible.
I do wonder also what changes were made to the Oz cars' suspension setup. Anyone know?
Post by: jason117 on May 10, 2010, 13:03:59
Thanks again!
Jason
Post by: Pip on May 10, 2010, 13:52:41
Great work Rob, I've been hunting a rear sway bar for some time now. I'll be on the phone to them tomorrow. My lap time should drop a little at Eastern Creek now...woohoo!So, Jason, tell us why you expect this will help the lap time and if you do change the rear roll-bar give some feed-back please.
Thanks again!
Jason
I'm not the least bit interested in any form of racing (myself) but would consider a change if it helped me get around corners without scrubbing the sh1t out of the offside front!
A few hundred bucks is of little impediment but if someone else is prepared to try and report, I along with others (I presume) will be grateful.
Post by: bobbyd on May 11, 2010, 02:55:33
I asked if it affected the ride and he said a little but not much at all compared with stiffer springs or dampers. I asked him to paint it black to avoid that overt modified look and he was happy to do that, they have been a great company to deal with, especially going out of his way to find an I30 and measure for me, rang back as promised in a few days and now its being made.
Going on past experience, i'm not that keen to get stiffer springs, I'd love some lowering but the last car i had was almost knocking my fillings out with the lowered kings springs i fitted, i may look at resetting the originals.
I'll keep you up to date with how the vehicle handles when the bar is put on. Having 18 inch wheels and plenty of twisty roads to take advantage of the upgrade, I'll know very quickly.
Post by: stkman on May 11, 2010, 08:31:29
Todd at Signature suggested a standard upgrade for this vehicle of 18mm, but having spoken with them this morning I've decided to go for 20mm, above and beyond their suggestion but i figure living in the hills and doing a lot of cornering i will try and get the most out it that i can.
I look forward to hearing how it is. I put an adjustable 20mm rear bar on my last car - a Toyota Caldina. Along with the front 25mm bar, it was amazing. Adjusted the rear bar to the equivalent of 22mm and the car oversteered in the dry on a trailing throttle ... a bit dangerous! So I am keen not to go too far!
Post by: jason117 on May 11, 2010, 09:57:50
I hope the change will improve the lap times due to the amount of understeer the car has in most of the slowish corners. This change shouldnt have many compromises in on-road comfort and as I dont intend to do many track days in it it should be a good change.
So, Jason, tell us why you expect this will help the lap time and if you do change the rear roll-bar give some feed-back please.
I'm not the least bit interested in any form of racing (myself) but would consider a change if it helped me get around corners without scrubbing the sh1t out of the offside front!
A few hundred bucks is of little impediment but if someone else is prepared to try and report, I along with others (I presume) will be grateful.
Post by: Pip on May 11, 2010, 16:06:52
Post by: Surferdude on May 13, 2010, 10:55:11
I do wonder also what changes were made to the Oz cars' suspension setup. Anyone know?
This info from a Hyundai i30 link (somewhere :P)
Advanced suspension - further refined for Australia
i30 suspension and steering have been specially calibrated for Australian driving conditions. This involved refining i30's European settings to accommodate our multi-patched, lumpier, bumpier local roads.
Testing was undertaken, both in Korea and in Australia, to specify the optimum combination of front and rear springs, shock absorbers and anti-roll bars, together with revised mapping of the control unit on the electric power steering system. The components chosen for Australian i30s debut a combination that is unique in the world (although NZ cars will also share them).
The result is a considerably sportier driving experience but with enough built-in compliance to smooth out our rougher roads. i30 has more neutral handling characteristics with no unexpected vices, with steering that benefits from increased weight and more feel. It is a dynamic package fully in tune with i30's youthful target market in Australia.
I suspected different spring rates, shocky valving and possibly different compound suspension bushes.
Which sounds pretty much like they said up above. Looks like they might have upped the sway bars, too.
Post by: Dazzler on May 13, 2010, 11:05:12
Post by: Pip on May 13, 2010, 16:03:22
According to a post above the rear sway-bar for the Oz car is 14mm. Anyone from another country care to climb under and measure theirs?
Post by: Lorian on May 13, 2010, 19:10:38
Post by: Surferdude on May 14, 2010, 00:46:01
I guess if they've stiffened up springs and shockies, they figured thinner was OK.
There is no doubt my car has a nice stiff, positive feel about the suspension and steering.
More on this later. I'm due for a 6 month update on my thoughts. :cool:
Post by: Pip on May 14, 2010, 05:09:36
This quote,
..This involved refining i30's European settings to accommodate our multi-patched, lumpier, bumpier local roads...
suggests to me that the Oz suspension tune was probably much less concerned with outright cornering ability and more with general stability things, like bump-steer. I find it tracks pretty straight and is not put off by pot-holes, tram lines etc. I'm less happy with road corrugations where it performs very poorly in my opinion, crashing and dancing all over the place.
Also interesting to see that the rear anti-roll bar is the same for the heavier diesel as for the petrol engine and I really wonder why they bothered to go from 17mm to 14mm for the rear anti-roll bar. The difference must have surely been minimal and considering that some here now want to increase it beyond 17mm, possibly might have been better left anyway?
Post by: Surferdude on May 14, 2010, 05:24:13
Had it up in the edges of the Kenilworth State Forest a while back and it seemed preety tame and controllable on the ruts, potholes and corrugations.
Post by: Pip on May 14, 2010, 10:42:12
Actually, mine handles the rough stuff very well.Yeah, I wondered when I wrote that whether I might have been alone. I am waiting for my service guy to come up with a plan to sort a rack (and column) rattle which probably infuences my feeling of poor handling over corrugations. That and the lower profile tyres on the slx pumped to 38psi.
Had it up in the edges of the Kenilworth State Forest a while back and it seemed preety tame and controllable on the ruts, potholes and corrugations.
Also, I suspect you were going a lot faster than me which sometimes helps. :twisted:
Post by: Surferdude on May 14, 2010, 13:05:41
No to the last bit. i had my wife on board and she gets a bit freaky. I WAS hurrying though. :rolleyes:Actually, mine handles the rough stuff very well.Yeah, I wondered when I wrote that whether I might have been alone. I am waiting for my service guy to come up with a plan to sort a rack (and column) rattle which probably infuences my feeling of poor handling over corrugations. That and the lower profile tyres on the slx pumped to 38psi.
Had it up in the edges of the Kenilworth State Forest a while back and it seemed preety tame and controllable on the ruts, potholes and corrugations.
Also, I suspect you were going a lot faster than me which sometimes helps. :twisted:
I run at least 36 so there shouldn't be too much difference there but certainly the lower profile tyres would make a big difference and may well be where your issue lies.
Post by: bobbyd on May 29, 2010, 10:04:02
Only issue i had was i ended up grinding down the ends of the bar as they were a tad longer owing to the larger diameter bar being crimped to make the eyelets- the eyelets where actually bigger in outside diameter if that makes sense- oversized compared to the standard and made it tight to get in without removing the springs, few mm ground down was perfect and still meatier eyelets compared to standard. Other than that it was a perfect match up, really happy, excellent investment.
Next stage for me is to get standard spring reset to a lower ride height, dont want to go any stiffer with springs. Quoted $80 per pair to get done, will take them out next week.
Post by: Pip on May 29, 2010, 11:17:37
Well i got the bar from signature and fitted it up- it corners beautifully now !! gone is the tendency to fall into corners when there is a dip or bump mid corner. Its positive and predictable, under steer is gone, the limiting factor now is tyre traction as it can really be thrown around with confidence. Ended up getting 20mm bar and side by side compared to the standard bar makes you wonder why the bothered with 14mm ? Doesn't feel any harsher ride.
I've been waiting in quiet anticipation of good news from you. I'm really too old and stiff to work under cars now... but I could make an exception here. Nice report.
Be sure to give any update as you live with it longer. :D
Post by: stkman on June 07, 2010, 06:31:11
Well i got the bar from signature and fitted it up- it corners beautifully now !! gone is the tendency to fall into corners when there is a dip or bump mid corner. Its positive and predictable, under steer is gone, the limiting factor now is tyre traction as it can really be thrown around with confidence. Ended up getting 20mm bar and side by side compared to the standard bar makes you wonder why the bothered with 14mm ? Doesn't feel any harsher ride.
Have been meaning to upgrade the rear bar after upgrading both front and rear bars, springs and dampers on my last car. Robdridan's feedback about a 20mm rear bar has kicked me into action and today I removed the standard rear bar and will take it in tomorrow so it can be duplicated in 20mm.
Can confirm my standard rear bar is 14mm and the front is 23mm. Would be interested to know what diameter the front bar is on UK/European models as Australia and NZ definitely have a downgraded bar. Driving without the 14mm rear bar doesn't feel a lot different. A little more understeer but not by much. I suspect most of the rear stiffness comes from firmer springs (as compared to UK/Europe).
The new bar will be black but new bushes will be red (will get some Nolathane bushes as they are easy to get here). Will need new mounting brackets as well as the standard ones have an odd shape to locate the Hyundai bushes. Will probably get new links with longer thread as the new bar will have thicker eyes.
Will take photos and post when completed.
Andrew
Post by: bobbyd on June 14, 2010, 12:47:23
Post by: stkman on June 15, 2010, 08:05:07
having looked underneath the car well now, i suspect getting the front bar out is a major job ??
Hi Robdririden,
I replaced the front bar on my last car (Toyota) with a larger one (went from 17mm to 25mm) and it looked about as tricky to get out. Paid the local workshop to do it and watched. They dropped the rear of the suspension 'subframe' and slid the bar out backwards, slid the new one in and bolted it all back together. Took less than 1/2 and hour. i30 looks very similar. I measured the front Hyundai bar at 23mm.
Andrew
Post by: stkman on July 18, 2010, 08:23:15
Finally got all the bits and pieces together to instal a larger rear swaybar and spent the morning in the sun doing just that. Took photos along the way ...
Comparison of the original 14mm bar and the new 20mm bar. Was made by a local spring manufacturer. This is the third bar they have done for me and I have been happy with their work on all of them.
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg11/stkman_photos/barcomparison.jpg)
Used Nolathane bushes and clamps.
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg11/stkman_photos/bushesclamps2.jpg)
I liked the way the Hyundai bar has fittings to stop lateral movement. A suspension guy I went to to get the parts to fit the bar from suggested rubber hose and hose clamps but I found a "lateral movement lock kit" by Whiteline.
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg11/stkman_photos/Lateralmovementlock.jpg)
The ends of the new bar are a lot sturdier looking ...
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg11/stkman_photos/barends.jpg)
so I got some universal swar bar links and cut them to length to suit. They look a bit more substantial.
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg11/stkman_photos/links.jpg)
Fitting the bar took a bit of doing. The old bar came out easily but the new one is thicker and with the more substantial ends, wouldn't slide in place easily. I ended up removing one shock to allow the spring coils to open up so I could slip the bar in between the coils and I dropped the lower suspension arm on the other side so I could pull the bar past the coil. Maybe easier to pay a workshop to do it!
Got it in though.
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg11/stkman_photos/inplace.jpg)
So the question is, how does it change the feel of the car. Actually, around town and driving gently on the motorway, there isn't an amazing amount of difference to me. Steering feels a bit sharper ("turn in" is better) but no really dramatic difference.
However, once you push it a little into corners, it will put a real smile on your face. Windy uphill for the last km or so to my house and was susbstantially quicker around corners with much less understeer. The car felt very neutral. Feels when it finally slides, it will be all four wheels at once. It really is a great improvement. It doesn't seem at all harsher to me.
I used to have 35psi air pressure in the front and 32psi in the back ... to me, it felt it steered better than 32 psi all round. Have gone back to 32psi all round and I like it.
Andrew
Post by: Paolo5 on July 18, 2010, 08:49:29
Cheers,
Paolo5
Post by: agentr31 on July 18, 2010, 09:44:24
Post by: Dazzler on July 18, 2010, 10:16:09
Post by: Pip on July 18, 2010, 16:17:48
Great Photo Guide Stkman. From what I've read I might need to do a similar mod if I upgrade to an i45 ... :'(
From what I've read you might need to do more than that... however, I also read that Hy are looking at making some changes themselves after the motoring press universally caned it.
By the time you get one it might already be fixed. :D
Although if they Australianise it in the same way they did the i30 there still may be room for improvement as has been documented here.
It truly baffles me that the strong inherent understeer from FWD cars is not more seriously considered something to be minimised to improve the balance and handling as a safety factor. While it might be better to go off front first instead of backwards, :rolleyes: forgetting ESP and its influence on this, I would always prefer to have some steering response if I've overdone it. :cool:
It could be that it's easier for the ESP to correct an incipient front-end slide than a rear-end slide. And even if this is true, why start with such strong understeer if you don't have to? When push comes to shove a FWD will understeer anyway. :cool: With the advent of stability control will the conventional wisdom, that understeer is the safer setup, be questioned as unnecessary?
While there would obviously be differing opinions on which might be the preferred balance I am of the opinion that it really doesn't matter which is the final tendency (about the time ESP comes to your rescue - whether you need it or not) but that the general balance up to that point be near to neutral for an enjoyable and safe drive.
Those here that have changed the balance to more neutral report a much nicer drive... and I'm assuming they are not talking about anything more than normal driving. :wink:
Post by: Dazzler on July 18, 2010, 22:26:57
Great Photo Guide Stkman. From what I've read I might need to do a similar mod if I upgrade to an i45 ... :'(
From what I've read you might need to do more than that... however, I also read that Hy are looking at making some changes themselves after the motoring press universally caned it.
By the time you get one it might already be fixed. :D
That's interesting .. I might just hold off until they do... Have you got a link to where Hy say they are looking at changes..
Post by: stkman on July 19, 2010, 00:52:34
I intend to try the i3o with the 20mm rear bar in the wet in an empty carpark at some stage to see if I can induce oversteer. In the dry it's very balanced with no hint of oversteer.
Andrew
Post by: jason117 on July 19, 2010, 10:31:27
http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2010/medium-passenger/hyundai/i45/hyundai-i45-set-for-chassis-tweaks-20080 (http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2010/medium-passenger/hyundai/i45/hyundai-i45-set-for-chassis-tweaks-20080)
Post by: agentr31 on July 19, 2010, 11:05:23
you really dont want oversteer in a car with no weight on the rear axle... it just turns out badly
Post by: Dazzler on July 19, 2010, 11:31:05
Here ya go Dazzler.
http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2010/medium-passenger/hyundai/i45/hyundai-i45-set-for-chassis-tweaks-20080 (http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2010/medium-passenger/hyundai/i45/hyundai-i45-set-for-chassis-tweaks-20080)
Thanks Jason (and Pip) guess I will be waiting until they sort it out... :'(
Sounds like I might be best to wait until the new year and see if a Diesel arrives and also check out the 2011 Kia Magentis :cool:
Post by: Pip on July 19, 2010, 14:04:40
understeer is the enemy... in a fwd you should aim for pretty neutral handling
you really dont want oversteer in a car with no weight on the rear axle... it just turns out badly
Agreed, but as I said (and I don't direct this to you Agent) a FWD will always understeer in the end because the weight and the drive (and the steering) are all at the same end.
I drove a lot of (panel van) Holdens from the 60s, 70s, (and yes, it was in the 60s and 70s) and it was interesting to take a corner "too fast" to say the least. :eek: Lose the back and it was often terminal. I understand... I rolled one three times... I counted them as I went around. You guys are so lucky to have me here. :lol:
What I was trying to say was that extremes of balance (and I really meant strong understeer) are really unnecessary, particularly when ESP will ultimately correct your mistakes to some extent, because it detracts from the driving experience for normal drivers and normal driving. :cool:
I look forward to more feedback from those whom have taken the step of fitting rear anti-roll bars.
Post by: Pip on July 19, 2010, 14:06:47
Here ya go Dazzler.
http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2010/medium-passenger/hyundai/i45/hyundai-i45-set-for-chassis-tweaks-20080 (http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2010/medium-passenger/hyundai/i45/hyundai-i45-set-for-chassis-tweaks-20080)
Thanks for that link, I was hard pressed to come up for one as my quote was from a throw-away line from a newspaper.
Post by: stkman on July 20, 2010, 08:47:44
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2359/article.html?popularArticle (http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2359/article.html?popularArticle)
Andrew
Post by: agentr31 on July 20, 2010, 09:41:02
Agreed, but as I said (and I don't direct this to you Agent) a FWD will always understeer in the end because the weight and the drive (and the steering) are all at the same end.
yep, this man speaks the truth!!!!!!
i have once encountered oversteer in a FWD, i took a rather large round-a-bout wayyyy to fast in the maxima (70kph) and the arse came out, i wasnt expecting it to do that and man did i panic, its not like a RWD where you can dial in some opposite lock, put the power on and drive out of it in a rather calm manner, it was just a pig to control and very nearly ended in tears...
Post by: Surferdude on July 20, 2010, 11:24:39
It's OK if you expect it. Some opposite lock and either keep the power on or gently lift off (any sudden movement is deadly). A FWd's inherent stabilty will generally kick in as you wash off speed.
Of course, if you don't expect it - disaster with a capital "D".
The early model Subarus had a narrower rear track than the front, so oversteer, especially on gravel was a regular occurrence and certainly helped you get through corners. :wink: :cool:
In my rally days I used to switch around between a Renault 12, a Datsun 1600 and a Subaru.
Interesting (and exciting) times. :eek:
Post by: agentr31 on July 20, 2010, 12:54:20
Post by: jason117 on August 24, 2010, 11:20:28
Post by: Surferdude on August 25, 2010, 04:55:43
and don't say "circles" :wink:
BTW. 2.5 secs saving is pretty good.
Post by: stkman on August 25, 2010, 09:00:44
It has been around 5 weeks since I replaced the existing 14mm rear anti-roll bar with a 20mm rear anti-rol bar. Time for a debrief!
After my initial impressions that the understeer was totally eliminated, I have found that there is still a slight tendency towards understeer. Not really noticable in the dry but it can be felt when pushing it in the wet (although must figure in tyres that are almost due for replacement). At no point have I been able to induce oversteer which I am very happy about ... understeer on a front wheel drive isn't too much fun.
In fact, I think it would be possible to go a bit larger than 20mm on the back for the ultimate in handling although for on the road, 20mm seems perfect to me. The word that springs to mind is 'effortless' when it comes to driving the car. It is very easy to drive very quickly due to the torquey diesel and the safe handling. There is no creaking which I noticed in my previous car with a larger rear anti-roll bar. In fact in that car, driving at an angle out of a driveway would lift a rear wheel.
I have no intention of going further with the handling by installing lower and/or firmer springs. Getting too old for that - prefer comfort now although love the new handling. I feel Hyundai could get away with a 20mm rear bar as standard although even a 17mm rear bar as on the European i30s would be great.
Disclaimer : I am very happy with these results on my car and am glad I have gone down this track but my opinions of my results are my impressions only - the larger bar may be damaging to the vehicles structral integrity in ways I don't know about!
Andrew
Post by: jason117 on August 26, 2010, 09:45:15
My best is 2min 11.8, which is not world beating by any means but quick enough to put a grin on my face, and still be confident of driving the thing home without any damage (except to the tyres and brakes :wink:)
Most, if not all of the other cars are running on r-spec tyres. The only fellow on standard road tyres was a nice guy in a Skyline GTST turbo jap-import thing who pipped me by .6 of a second by the end of the day. The i30 held it's head up proud!
Post by: Surferdude on August 26, 2010, 09:55:33
Surfer,Sounds good.
My best is 2min 11.8, which is not world beating by any means but quick enough to put a grin on my face, and still be confident of driving the thing home without any damage (except to the tyres and brakes :wink:)
Most, if not all of the other cars are running on r-spec tyres. The only fellow on standard road tyres was a nice guy in a Skyline GTST turbo jap-import thing who pipped me by .6 of a second by the end of the day. The i30 held it's head up proud!
I've not driven around Eastern Creek but have done a few laps of the short circuit at Oran Park (in the company car of course :wink:)
And Lakeside and Surfers Paradise back in the day. It's great fun and I've managed to get at least one of my kids to experience it, too.
However, I must admit to still prefering a nice, winding gravel road through a pine forest,
At night. :cool:
Post by: agentr31 on August 26, 2010, 12:37:17
Post by: jason117 on August 27, 2010, 09:27:04
Post by: Surferdude on August 27, 2010, 09:45:46
WOW!
Post by: Dazzler on August 27, 2010, 11:23:00
30kg :question: :question: :question:
WOW!
yeah.. his mum says she is seeing less of him now :lol:
Post by: jason117 on August 27, 2010, 13:19:10
Post by: agentr31 on August 27, 2010, 14:31:13
great news on the weight loss too man! *high fives*
Post by: Paolo5 on September 17, 2010, 08:50:04
He fitted a 20mm rear bar to my car last Monday. It took him less than 10 minutes to remove the original bar and around 45 minutes to install the new one.
I travel over twisty roads each day and the new bar has reduced the previous i30 OE wallowing significantly. My car sits much flatter around roundabouts and when pushing-on through bends. I haven't noticed that the drive is any harsher at all with the new bar. Makes me want to find new bends to try out...
Thanks Stkman, Jason117 and Bobbyd for providing the incentive to get this done on my own car.
It was $220 and I gave him a week's notice. He painted it black on my request. Fitting was $50 extra. This has been the second-best birthday present that I have ever given myself!
It handles like a different car. BARGAIN!!!
Post by: bobbyd on September 18, 2010, 09:52:58
On another note i ended up having my springs reset- after taking them out and having a local spring manufacturer reset them i was initially let down- i asked for 35 mm lowering but that didn't eventuate and i was given a refund. The answer as to why it didn't work was that apparently some new car manufacturers are using "anti sag" spring coils which will not easily reset to a lower height.
Having said that i think it eventually sat down about 25mm lower and in hindsight this is a good compromise, the front bumper does occasionally touch on the odd dip or raise when parking etc. But at least the springs aren't too firm coupled with the 18" wheels.
I look forward to someone finding a front bar upgrade. Keep us posted
Post by: Paolo5 on September 19, 2010, 00:36:41
The auto wrecker not far from my workplace has a totalled i30. I will get a price on the front bar from them this week.
If the cost of this bar is reasonable, I could send it to Sydney to be the template for a thicker bar to be manufactured.
Would there be any interest from fellow i30 members in approaching Todd Selby (yes, as in Selby Swaybars of old) at Signature Swaybars for a multiple-purchase price of front bars?
Post by: 2i30s on September 19, 2010, 00:45:30
Post by: Paolo5 on September 19, 2010, 00:50:23
Would that be 1 or 2 bars for you? (plus 1 for me)
Post by: Pip on September 19, 2010, 02:33:04
Will you not be in danger of negating the newly found more neutral balance gained by stiffening the rear bar? I'm seriously thinking of doing the rear bar but touching the front seems to be the wrong option.
Someone?
Post by: Surferdude on September 19, 2010, 02:56:10
Hey guys, I have no experience with suspension mods but have a reasonable grasp of the theory and and I'm wondering what you will be hoping to gain from stiffening the front bar.Yeah Pip. I tend to think you're right.
Will you not be in danger of negating the newly found more neutral balance gained by stiffening the rear bar? I'm seriously thinking of doing the rear bar but touching the front seems to be the wrong option.
Someone?
Some research is needed. I'm sure stiffening the front bar will increase understeer.
Post by: agentr31 on September 19, 2010, 02:57:24
Post by: Duckman on September 19, 2010, 08:14:14
Post by: 2i30s on September 19, 2010, 08:41:32
Post by: Pip on September 19, 2010, 13:53:05
in most of the cars I've owned I've beefed up the front sway bar and it took away the understeer [but they were rear wheel drive cars] would you get more understeer in a front wheel drive car with a bigger front bar? the i30 is the first car I've owned that is front wheel drive. :wink: a larger rear bar takes away oversteer and some understeer.
My understanding is that irrespective of whether FWD or RWD the sway bars will promote the same result, although perhaps at some (more extreme) point whereby any body-roll reduction will keep some tyres squarer to the ground and result in better control that overrides the basic theory.
Generally, front (stiffer) bars loosen the back, and rear (stiffer) bars loosen the front. What I mean by this is that when pushed near the limit the sway bar causes the end that it's attached to to lose grip thus moving the point of rotation closer to the other end.
Boiled down, front bars move the balance towards understeer and rear bars move the balance towards oversteer.
FWD or RWD just determine the intrinsic balance, with FWD (that we have) tending to understeer - so stiff rear bars reduce that and stiff front bars enhance that.
Of course it's the relative stiffness between them that determines where the balance shifts to. Taken too far though, the wheels on each axle will act more like a solid axle (non-independent) and the ride at least will be intolerable; perhaps a bit like stiffening the springs beyond reasonable.
And more: why RWD (assuming engine in front just like FWD) cars tend to oversteer is because when power is applied the rear wheel grip will be reduced as the tyres struggle to maintain full contact (and as soon as you hear a chirp you know they aint) and they eventually "let go". Because the engine is in the front though they will probably start out to oversteer simply because that's where the weight is and the centrifigal balance is towards the front (weight).
RWD then can be understeer turning to oversteer and FWD can be understeer turning to... well understeer unless you stiffen the rear bar enough to cause the rear to step out. Even then it will probably only happen if the power is cut mid-corner. FWD is IMHO very dull. :wink:
Post by: bobbyd on September 20, 2010, 03:03:07
Interesting thought bobbyd...
The auto wrecker not far from my workplace has a totalled i30. I will get a price on the front bar from them this week.
If the cost of this bar is reasonable, I could send it to Sydney to be the template for a thicker bar to be manufactured.
Would there be any interest from fellow i30 members in approaching Todd Selby (yes, as in Selby Swaybars of old) at Signature Swaybars for a multiple-purchase price of front bars?
Hell yeah, definitely keen if the price is right. Also find out from the wreckers if the bar can be removed and replaced without dropping the front end.
Post by: bobbyd on September 20, 2010, 03:10:38
Post by: Paolo5 on September 20, 2010, 09:59:19
A new OE bar is $175. I think that $150 is way-over-the-top. Maybe another member could find a better deal somewhere else?
I rang Todd from Signature Swaybars and asked him about a discount for a multiple order (of say 5 bars).
He wasn't able to give a firm figure as he hasn't seen an i30 bar and consequently doesn't know how many bends it has. He said that he could give a 10% discount over the single unit price if (say) 5 were ordered.
Todd said that in a front-wheel drive vehicle, if, say, a 20mm bar was installed in place of a 14mm rear bar (ie a 6mm increase), then an upgraded front bar would be best to have less of an increase to best complement the beefier rear one. So if the front OE one was 20mm in diameter (for example...don't know what it is in an Oz model) then the optimum upgrade for the front would be a bar 23-24mm in diameter.
I have contacted the person who is selling the Ebay wreck mentioned on another thread today and asked what he would accept for the front bar on his car. I will let you know what his reply is.
Post by: agentr31 on September 20, 2010, 11:01:15
Post by: Paolo5 on September 20, 2010, 11:36:14
Seriously though, thanks for the link Agent. If it was a manual I might be tempted to buy it myself.
Post by: Surferdude on September 20, 2010, 21:17:06
There's another one got the Goodyear franchise in Bowral.
Re: rear sway bars my Datto rally car (Datsun 1600s are/were notorious understeerers and I finally resolved it with several mods).
But, relevant to this thread, I had a locked (read "welded") diff and that used to really push the car in corners unless I got super serious and flicked it in hard. As this wasn't necessarily the quickest way through the corner I added a rear sway bar (Selbys actually), This had the effect of starting oversteer progressiely but pretty much as soon as there was some weight transfer and I could then control the car's direction on the throttle.
For anyone who doesn't know, a welded diff was the poor mans Limoted Slip Diff back in the day.
And the Datto didn't have a rear sway bar as standard so the Selbys unit came as a complex package including angle iron bracketing - but very effective.
Post by: agentr31 on September 21, 2010, 09:16:30
Post by: stkman on September 21, 2010, 09:58:58
Andrew
Post by: Surferdude on September 21, 2010, 10:26:13
LOL welded diff... bad.. VERY BAD... massive understeer inducer, then an oversteer monster!Well no. It was in fact a very precise and controllable machine which drew favourable comment from many observers, although only a couple of guys knew about the diff. It was used by a guy who won the WA State Championship with it and his mate who did some work on my car and lived in Qld appropriated it for me.
Although I have no doubt that if you did nothing else but fit a welded diff you'd get what you are suggesting. :-[