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Sports Exhaust - Turbo Diesel

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Offline Lakes

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Wise Choice, wait two weeks and i'll duplicate my trip out west that i averaged 4.9L/ 100K on.
but i'll tell you there is a definite gain in power and Torque, just no idea what the gain would be but it would have to be say 10HP at least and maybe 10Ft Pound Torque as i've seen gains like that testing on dyno and the gain i'm feeling and seeing 9 comparing what i can beat going to work :D . but talk is cheap. i'll wait and see how the economy goes.
on way home from work i was taking my normal back way home on the last section i have to take some twisty bends and lot of hill's, well taking one bend where i turn off into another street then climb a hill, i was in 3rd gear and it felt like i was in 2nd gear, then going up that hill i had shifted to 4th and i took a corner and just put my foot gently on the throtle and it excellerated so smoothly and willingly i checked that indeed it was in 4th gear as it felt like it was in 3rd gear. there is a gain there you feel. its very nice too as no loss at any rev just gain if you understand my meaning. like gain you feel at lower rev as well as higher rev has to be a good gain.
cheers


Offline Dazzler

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Hey Thumper HELP HELP...

I've decided to bite the bullet and get my exhaust done like yours asap . I'm getting Carline Mufflers and Midas to give me a quote...

Am going to show them your photos and quote your specs if that is o/k.

The carline guy said it would help if he knew what brand of turbo muffler they used for your car (part number if possible) do you know that info?

Now I've decided to go that way I'm nearly as impatient as Nick from Belgium  :lol: (so might have to P.M. you in case you miss this posting)

Thanks in advance..
  • 2021 MG PHEV ( had 4 x i30 plus a Getz an Elantra and a Tucson)


Offline Lakes

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hey Dazz, not real important what brand muff, just low restriction straight through 2 1/2" pipe and muff with hole the same size, the one my friend used looked very much like Thumper but i did not show him any pic's he just worked out himself what was needed for the job. it has an ofset like thumpers and like stock muff but you can see straight through it, had to make mounts to weld to muff and pipe to fit stock rubber mounts. it was not a hard job, he used the stock system to duplicate the bends and so on. but my friend makes custom systems so is used to doing jobs like this. don't use someone without imagination m8 they are useless if they ask for part numbers they should have a range of mufflers in stock.
just my 1 cents worth mate. you will love it!


Offline Dazzler

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Thanks John....

I'll quote you as well... :mrgreen:
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Offline EymaTeapot

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Hey John,

I know that you only had your muffler fitted a few days ago but what are your thougths?
Have you been able to detect a noticeable difference in the fuel efficiency?


Offline Lakes

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Eyma, i have not detected any change in fuel efficiency yet, just can feel the gain in performance and it is noticeable, but i have only traveled 300k since the change and it has been all Sydney driving so do not expect a gain, i think the gain will show on trips as thats just how it works, as when you are just stop start driving and accelerating then slowing down  you could not expect to see a gain. but at consistent hwy speeds i'm sure i'll see an economy gain so just have to wait two more weeks to find out as this coming weekend i'm racing . but the one after i'll be duplicating my last trip and on that trip stock i got 4.9l / 100k driving at 100 to 110 on GPS around 2,500 2,300 rpm in 5th.
John


Offline EymaTeapot

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Thanks John,

Like Dazz and CHB and others to no doubt, I look forward to the results of that fuel run.

Cheers


Offline Thumper

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Hehehe, you all getting excited now!  :D  (Just get my good side)  8-)


Offline Hemmi

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Hi guys, interesting thread,

Is this a Diesel mod only? Would this work for Petrol engine,
I'm going to replace my 2 fake exhaust's with 2 real ones, is there something more I should do?


Offline Shambles

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Quote from: "Hemmi"
I'm going to replace my 2 fake exhaust's with 2 real ones, is there something more I should do?
Yeah - get a bank loan  :mrgreen:
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Offline h4xk0

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The sound on clip2 is awesome. :ugeek:  VERY NICE!


Offline Dazzler

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Hi Thumper & Lakes (and anyone else who's interested)

I booked in the i30 for it's new exhaust with Midas on Monday (the guy seemed enthusiastic) He quoted me $345 but will match the $280 that Thumper paid...

The guy at Carline Mufflers was also a nice bloke but wasn't as confident about my project!

I'm excited...

Cheers,

Dazz
  • 2021 MG PHEV ( had 4 x i30 plus a Getz an Elantra and a Tucson)


Offline Martin

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Guys, pay $50 for a before and after dyno run with the exhaust.....the results MAY surprise you  :o


Offline Dazzler

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I'm not much into Dyno results* (I'll let someone else do that) I'd rather spend the $50 on food or something.  From what Thumper and Lakes have said, I'll let my accelerator foot do the dyno testing  :lol:

*I would rather "feel" the results rather than look at them...
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Offline Martin

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Quote from: "dazzling_darryl"
I'm not much into Dyno results* (I'll let someone else do that) I'd rather spend the $50 on food or something.  From what Thumper and Lakes have said, I'll let my accelerator foot do the dyno testing  :)

Martin


Offline Dazzler

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Hi Martin... :(
  • 2021 MG PHEV ( had 4 x i30 plus a Getz an Elantra and a Tucson)


ouri30
Interesting results, Martin.

I conclude, from what the figures you have provided, that I shall not bother about the sports muffler.  I would be better off getting a K&N High Flow Air Filter at less than half the price of a sports muffler.  Even then, the power gain is not great (3%).

Bob


Offline Dazzler

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Hi Bob (& Martin)

Maybe it is the quality of the power delivery after the exhaust change that makes the difference (says Darryl trying to justify an unnecessary expense and keep his mates Thumper and lakes onside... ;)  )

I think I'll proceed anyway... I just won't expect miracles.

The guy at Midas has just put a similar exhaust on an old Nissan Skyline he bought cheap  and reckons it made a huge difference to the "feel" under acceleration.
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Offline Thumper

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Martin, interesting in the dyno results with regards to the muffler change.

I would love to see the graphs from the stock run, then a run with the muffler removed. As you have shown, no increase in power output.

What I wish to know, is there any artificial power restriction going on here by the ECU? Does the graphs show any increase of the rate of power delivery lower down in the rev range? Is there any torque increase? Have you measured any exhaust back pressure at the outlet of the turbo?

As you are aware the standard muffler is very restrictive in design. (This is obvious)

I am full aware of psychometrics involved with noisier = faster, yet I know from my own testing and the videos I have shown (0-100km/h) is significantly faster than standard.

I also know that after fitting the exhaust, I was getting wheel spin in 2nd gear going up the Brown Mountain heading from Bega to Cooma (NSW) where the previous trips, no hope in hell of wheel spin when overtaking trucks on this hill. (Thinking it might have been just oil on the road, or dampness, each and every time I go down that way and come back, I roll on the throttle at the same spot, straight line, wheel spin is induced.)

I've also shown it has improved economy when on the highway. (I regularly get 1,300km per tank)

Yes, I am curious that the videos I have taken showing a difference, economy showing a difference, yet fail to show that according to a dyno, the exhaust does nothing. (Except sound louder)

In your honest opinion, why would this be so?


Offline Lakes

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Quote from: "dazzling_darryl"
I'm not much into Dyno results* (I'll let someone else do that) I'd rather spend the $50 on food or something.  From what Thumper and Lakes have said, I'll let my accelerator foot do the dyno testing  :lol:

*I would rather "feel" the results rather than look at them...

Martin, did you do two timed dyno run's? like how many second it took for stock system to make power in seconds, then take off the exhast and do another timmed run, see difference in spool up time.
i have a few friends with Dyno's and one friend that makes his own engine dyno's. i have dynoed my bike about 130 times last count but got all that dyno time free. i got to dyno then go to the track. i found gaining power did not always show up on time ticket, but if i gained power faster, it showed up on the time ticket. i would go to a track and race a stock i30 against one with this 2 1/2" with sport muff from rear box back ( did you test that?) but i'm not interested. what i said about  how different my car feels is true mate. i don't doubt you on what you found testing with the dyno. just what i can see driving to work is real m8, and i would back it up at the drag strip if you want to hop into a stock off showroom floor i30 and meet me for a skid at WSID.  just showing i'm for real m8.
what dyno do you use for testing?
cheers good to have you here m8.
PS my friend that makes engine dyno's got an old Vane truck roller wheel driven dyno cheap from the local tech and is seting it up with a computer to try out making wheel driven dyno, he does not get much time as gets a lot of motors to build and dyno, also builders take motors to run in then dyno and tune, always complaining he has no time. but i'll check if he has done any more and give it a run with both stock and sport muff. but he told me turbo's don't like any restriction at all. unline conventional naturally aspirated.


Offline Martin

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Thanks for the replies guys, always good to get some solid technical discussion going in a thread :P

The dyno we use is a Mainline Dynolog twin retarder system that is the most advanced and sensitive chassis dyno that money can buy - and you need plenty of that as its about the same cost as 4 x i30 CRDi SLXs on-road! Repeatability is excellent, and the dyno can even log data (such as boost pressure, rpm, inlet temp etc) straight out of the i30 diagnostic port - which is where the boost curve we printed comes from. I will get some more dyno plots for you today, however the previous testing showed all the different exhaust combinations to draw the identical line one on top of the other, which with our considerable drag racing experience leads us to believe no change in ET or MPH on the strip :)


Offline Dazzler

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Thank Guys ...

Guess I'll just have to wait till Monday night and see if I'm happy with the result.... :?

Regards,

Dazz
  • 2021 MG PHEV ( had 4 x i30 plus a Getz an Elantra and a Tucson)


Offline Hemmi

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Quote from: "Hemmi"
Hi guys, interesting thread,

Is this a Diesel mod only? Would this work for Petrol engine,
I'm going to replace my 2 fake exhaust's with 2 real ones, is there something more I should do?


Offline Dazzler

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Hi Hemmi...

According to Martin the Mod does little or nothing for the diesel (may make a difference with a re-program of the ECU)  Doesn't sound like it does any harm tho...

Guess what I'm say Hemmi is who knows? Maybe Martin or one of our other members has an opinion.

Regards,

Dazz
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Offline Thumper

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Martin, first of all thank you for your time here. It's hugely appreciated by the entire i30 community.  :lol: ) and I'm about to measure pressure drops across the entire inlet system (Before turbo) to see if there is any pressure drop whilst stationary, and then whilst at highway speeds. (To see if there is any ram effect going on with the stock system)

I commend you for what you are doing, I really do! (I'm following what you are doing with great interest) Please, keep up the good work.  :twisted:


Offline Martin

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Thumper
I spent most of the day working on the i30 today, mainly in the coding of the PCM, and performed over 50 individual dynamometer tests in fully controlled conditions, using OBDII logging over the Hyundai CAN Bus as well as external analog logging to measure and collate all of the results  :ugeek:

The only effective way to gain power or performance in an i30CRDi is to remap the PCM to reset these actual torque limits, and give the boost and fuel control system some higher airflow to aim at and then achieve. We trialled this very successfully today, with some great results to post later on over the next few days. In short having a totally reliable and economical 120kw and 400Nm rated i30CRDi is not that far away, and all with the stock exhaust in place :)


Offline Lakes

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Quote from: "Martin"
Guys, pay $50 for a before and after dyno run with the exhaust.....the results MAY surprise you  ;)  and have had some experience, with things like this and we both noticed a gain. what i think is it makes the same power 7 Torque, BUT.... it makes it quicker ( shorter time 0 than before. i am borred to death looking at dyno graphs these day's,  as they all just show rev per minute, i like the way you did the SAE correction as this is the only way to use a dyno as a tool to develop a motor ( thats if that's what you want to do. but RPM on a graph does not tell me much as i have seen guys rev and rev and rev, seemed like forever and the RPM graph just showed KW & TQ @ 1,000 or 2,000 and so on but if i had not have been watching the run i would not have known just how slow that was to rev out. so when i use the dyno to test i only like doing a timed dyno run, and i only look at what i made in 5seconds of wide open throtle, what shows up after 5 second's does not interest me. we might change the tune or the set up on my bikes motor before a race meet ( i hate doing that as i have to learn my set up all over again, makes it harder ) anyway i don't care what makes the most power or Torque, i use the tune that makes the most power & torque the fastest. and when i look at my time ticket i see the gain. if i just go for the tune that show's the biggest numbers and i don't worry about how long it took to make them, i do not always see a gain on my time ticket. in the end the black dyno is what counts.
so if i really wanted to test if what Thumper did then i just tried to duplicate, what i would do is just drive down the M2, then the M7 , then take the great western Hwy exit on a wednesday night, and enter a grudge meet, i would have tools and ramps and have the stock systrem on. then i would line up do a pass, then line up again do another pass, i would take great care to shift at same rev both pass's, i would also check the rev i was holding the motor at on the line and also opperate the clutch the same both pass's. then i would study my two time tickets to see how consistant i was. if satified i would put the rear up the ramps and remove the stock rear box bolt on the Thumper system. go out again and duplicate what i had done on ther first two pass's. then i would look at 60Ft time then 330ft time the 660ft time and half track speed, then 1,000ft time then quarter mile time and trap speed, i would also look at my reaction times as if the car launched harder this would show up in a quicker reaction time. if i had gains all the way and a faster half trap speed but the same quarter mile trap speed, this would tell me it made the power and Torque quicker but as the quarter mile speed was the same no more power. also it would be real world tersting as i would have speed and wind resistance.

also did you test the air fuel ratio again when you removed parts of the system?
i find it very hard to beleave that the diesel could even run @ 30 to 1 AFR.
John


Offline Lakes

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Quote from: "Martin"
Thanks for the replies guys, always good to get some solid technical discussion going in a thread :P

The dyno we use is a Mainline Dynolog twin retarder system that is the most advanced and sensitive chassis dyno that money can buy - and you need plenty of that as its about the same cost as 4 x i30 CRDi SLXs on-road! Repeatability is excellent, and the dyno can even log data (such as boost pressure, rpm, inlet temp etc) straight out of the i30 diagnostic port - which is where the boost curve we printed comes from. I will get some more dyno plots for you today, however the previous testing showed all the different exhaust combinations to draw the identical line one on top of the other, which with our considerable drag racing experience leads us to believe no change in ET or MPH on the strip :)

Martin do you compeat nationally in drag racing?
The dyno sounds good, how does it control load? and what are you useing to check AFR? also what gear do you run the i30 on when you do the testing? and have you noticed any change in the power runing in different gears?
thanks. also at any stage do you ever plan to test the i30 at the strip?
john


Offline Thumper

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*Ponders*

Martin you've given us all food for thought.   :D


Offline Lakes

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Thumper, i think reason martin would use third gear is to keep the tyre speed down, as if you put them in higher gear the tyre speed can sometimes increase to above tyres speed rateing.
does not seem to make a lot of difference with those tyre of Dyno's, as they have made big improvements to the software. but sometimes with a high torque motor if you put them in a taller gear you can sometimes see a power gain. but runing them in third gear will not do that.
like for instance if you had a car or bike on a dyno and ran them in third gear got a base power and torque reading, then you took it down the quarter mile and looked at just the trapp speed, then went back to the dyno, and put it in a taller gear, and the dyno showed a power increase, but no torque increase, then you did another pass at the track and looked at your trap speed would be the same as the first pass.
this is one reason why a chassis dyno is always a compromise the engine dyno you have the motor bolted dirrect to the dyno.
also the room the dyno is in is very important, like you need a sound proof room to opperate in.
i know a guy that has a engine dyno that is just used to test pistons as he makes and designs pistons, it's not used to test power or torque but used to destruct motors, the room is like a cylinder and bomb proof ( should see the dents inside it :D
cheers John


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