Post by: artrix on October 08, 2019, 05:32:25
Before changing it I was having an issue with dying slightly at low revs when driving off from be stationary. I recently had water contamination in the fuel tank which I drained and fitted a new filter. All was good but a couple of months ago I got a water warning light and as it was a weekend I just pulled the filter off upended it to drain any water that may have been in it.
I realize I should had fitted a new one asap but life has been difficult this year and I forgot. Car ran ok but developed this slight stumble on take off which I put down to a restricted filter. After fitting new filter all was good car drove as before and I figured it sorted. I drove it around for hours and no problem. Then...... I parked it and no start! it cranks but wont fire....I pumped the primer no joy, if air leak I would at least be able to pump it up enough for it to at least fire up but nothing ....I sampled the diesel from the filter and it looks fine no sign of water. I have refitted the original filter no change I have looked for any obvious loose wires...none. Put scan tool on and no obvious issues have come up but I am a pumpkin head regards the scan tool but it all looks ok. I cracked the fuel line at the injectors and cranked it and fuel is being delivered. I am wondering if the injectors are firing but I dont know how to check that ....any tips ? I assume that if the injectors where the issue it would show up on the scan. wondering about key but as I dont have a spare I cant test that.....wondering if any of you have any experience with something like this. I believe I can rule out air leaks as I have said earlier i have taken it off and refitted it a few times and all is normal......should I get a priest? Any opinions would be very gratefully received. cheers
Post by: tw2005 on October 08, 2019, 09:02:29
:link: 2012 diesel drawing air into fuel system over night (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=54453.0)
:link: I30 diesel fuel filter price......worth it ? (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=54525.0)
Post by: artrix on October 08, 2019, 12:02:32
Post by: nzenigma on October 08, 2019, 23:38:47
Fresh water, or water and mud?
Possible rail or HP pump pressure sensor has been contaminated. Remove and check. Clear by pumping fuel through rail with sensor removed.
Post by: artrix on October 19, 2019, 00:34:37
Power steering issues wondering if the cars computer stops it from starting as a safety measure.
Post by: tw2005 on October 19, 2019, 01:22:39
Thanks for all the input I have been away and have not been able to look into the car until this morning. Had a mobile mechanic I know drop by with his scan tool to check for codes and he found c1260 and c1611. Could either of these faults immobilise the car from starting.C1611 is comms between the EPS and ECM. Failsafe is vehicle speed set to 40KPH. Possible cuases it suggests bad harness, open or short cct or bad ECM. I guess a bad ECM could mean no engine management.
Power steering issues wondering if the cars computer stops it from starting as a safety measure.
C1260 steering angle sensor cct, not going to stop the car ESP lamp would be on.
were these codes current or history
Post by: artrix on October 19, 2019, 01:54:37
Thanks for all the input I have been away and have not been able to look into the car until this morning. Had a mobile mechanic I know drop by with his scan tool to check for codes and he found c1260 and c1611. Could either of these faults immobilise the car from starting.C1611 is comms between the EPS and ECM. Failsafe is vehicle speed set to 40KPH. Possible cuases it suggests bad harness, open or short cct or bad ECM. I guess a bad ECM could mean no engine management.
Power steering issues wondering if the cars computer stops it from starting as a safety measure.
C1260 steering angle sensor cct, not going to stop the car ESP lamp would be on.
were these codes current or history
I believe he cleared the codes then ran a test again and they where what remained. The car just cranks and doesn't fire , clutching at straws at the moment. I thought key immobiliser but he said it would leave a code. Fuel is good , crank angle sensor is working ....we tried to test the leads to the injectors with a test light and it seems there is no pulse going thru but he admitted that he hadn't had a lot of experience with Hyundai's apart from general services. His time was free as he was going to a job around the corner. Giving me the s***ts tho apart from now its been reliable.
Post by: nzenigma on October 19, 2019, 03:59:22
The steering codes occur if you get battery failure or 12v line dropout.
ESP etc is not going to stop the engine starting.
I tend to think bad connection from or around the ECU
The ECU and Battery are near the fuel filter. So that is a starting point.
Post by: artrix on October 19, 2019, 04:24:50
I dont see any clear relationship between the fuel problems and later non performance...
The steering codes occur if you get battery failure or 12v line dropout.
ESP etc is not going to stop the engine starting.
I tend to think bad connection from or around the ECU
The ECU and Battery are near the fuel filter. So that is a stating point.
Yeah i figured it was a long shot the codes might show a reason why i only cranks. Afew weeks ago I had to replace the battery so that may account for them. The fuel filter has 3 plugs into it one being the water contaminate alert. what are the other two.....im just wondering as you have to disturb them when changing filter...???
Post by: tw2005 on October 19, 2019, 04:49:58
Heat and fuel filter sensorI dont see any clear relationship between the fuel problems and later non performance...
The steering codes occur if you get battery failure or 12v line dropout.
ESP etc is not going to stop the engine starting.
I tend to think bad connection from or around the ECU
The ECU and Battery are near the fuel filter. So that is a stating point.
Yeah i figured it was a long shot the codes might show a reason why i only cranks. Afew weeks ago I had to replace the battery so that may account for them. The fuel filter has 3 plugs into it one being the water contaminate alert. what are the other two.....im just wondering as you have to disturb them when changing filter...???
Post by: tw2005 on October 19, 2019, 04:54:37
(https://i.ibb.co/ncwwryp/filter.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Post by: artrix on October 19, 2019, 05:04:22
(https://i.ibb.co/ncwwryp/filter.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Cheers didnt think it would be a cause ...thanks.
Anyone know a good mobile mechanic with Hyundai experience?.....Im in Everton Park and have run out of ideas
Post by: tw2005 on October 19, 2019, 06:13:05
Post by: tw2005 on October 19, 2019, 12:20:13
C1611 ABS ESP (stability program)= CAN timeout EMS
(https://i.ibb.co/FzwX2ng/c1611-1-ABS.jpg) (https://ibb.co/w4W7VYM)
(https://i.ibb.co/Khjxh7b/c1611-2-ABS.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6wR0wbr)
(https://i.ibb.co/grWxqK0/c1611-3-ABS.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qDgvqQH)
(https://i.ibb.co/fMpKTxW/c1611-4-ABS.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WnydR2X)
(https://i.ibb.co/9cMcgn1/c1611-5-ABS.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Qp5pQ9T)
(https://i.ibb.co/9YRq3Dn/c1611-6-ABS.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NYwLnvx)
C1611 EPS(steering) = CAN timeout EMS
(https://i.ibb.co/LJZc2hH/c1611-1-EPS.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8d7fS4t)
(https://i.ibb.co/MSNkxJc/c1611-2-EPS.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JtkjwSv)
(https://i.ibb.co/nRfVhqT/c1611-3-EPS.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/LxMjbwb/c1611-4-EPS.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Post by: tw2005 on October 19, 2019, 12:58:19
:link: HYUNDAI I30 ECU ENGINE ECU, 1.6, DIESEL, P/N 391162A405, SEC SET (ECU/IMM/READER | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HYUNDAI-I30-ECU-ENGINE-ECU-1-6-DIESEL-P-N-391162A405-SEC-SET-ECU-IMM-READER/333354389988?hash=item4d9d7851e4:g:qaQAAOSwADVdnTCx&frcectupt=true)
Post by: tw2005 on October 19, 2019, 13:00:47
(https://i.ibb.co/CzcrjLr/datalink-M49.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
photo uploader (https://imgbb.com/)
Post by: artrix on October 19, 2019, 13:04:40
Post by: artrix on October 19, 2019, 13:05:41
Post by: tw2005 on October 19, 2019, 13:12:14
Dont forget I need Hyundai's for dummiesThe CAN is the communications link from other modules. Both the aBS and steering units are not reporting to the ECU. So you may have to confirm connectivity as per the fault finding . If the harness is ok, then it suggests swapping a known good ECU. Of course it's not going to start like that but if the comms fault cleared(C1611) then that would mean the fault was the ECU. that may also lead to fixing the no start?
Post by: tw2005 on October 19, 2019, 13:17:38
can High data link ABS. That connector is in the vicinity of the fuel filter too. could that harness be damaged / shorted?
(https://i.ibb.co/wRMZv58/e47-ABS-HECU.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Post by: artrix on October 19, 2019, 13:31:25
Post by: artrix on October 19, 2019, 13:33:59
Post by: tw2005 on October 19, 2019, 13:37:06
Ok I guess locating a good ecu is on the cards...starting to get to the point beyond my skill levelOnly need to borrow one to see if that C1611 clears, I don't think @nzenigma would have one from that late?
Post by: nzenigma on October 19, 2019, 21:28:40
Ok I guess locating a good ecu is on the cards...starting to get to the point beyond my skill levelOnly need to borrow one to see if that C1611 clears, I don't think @nzenigma would have one from that late?
Not for the diesel only petrol.
Thinking on this over night, Im reluctant to ignore the water in fuel issue. Twice.!!!!
Where did you get it? Could it be still there, or there again?
If it was a crap supplier did he also supply diesel bug?
In that case fuel sensors on rail and HP pump could be contaminated. = car will not start.
Also pick up in tank will be clogged
The codes related to steering could simply be related to long periods of cranking. Have had that happen occasionally.
Post by: tw2005 on October 19, 2019, 22:20:22
@nzenigma I was just thinking , would there be any point removing the supply and return lines at the motor end and hooking up some clear tubing and then run diesel straight from a container? I have run diesel purge like that through one of mine.Ok I guess locating a good ecu is on the cards...starting to get to the point beyond my skill levelOnly need to borrow one to see if that C1611 clears, I don't think @nzenigma would have one from that late?
Not for the diesel only petrol.
Thinking on this over night, Im reluctant to ignore the water in fuel issue. Twice.!!!!
Where did you get it? Could it be still there, or there again?
If it was a crap supplier did he also supply diesel bug?
In that case fuel sensors on rail and HP pump could be contaminated. = car will not start.
Also pick up in tank will be clogged
The codes related to steering could simply be related to long periods of cranking. Have had that happen occasionally.
WHich sensors are we talking about specifically?
Rail pressure is showing normal 25 - 30 Mpa so I think that sensor is ok, not sure about the pump.
Post by: tw2005 on October 19, 2019, 22:31:36
This is a snapshot, O2 sensor temp caught my attention as weird
Glow is receiving voltage, and there is 0.3 ohms showing at the harness so that's looking fine
(https://i.ibb.co/hXvWb22/collective-snapshot.jpg)
Post by: nzenigma on October 19, 2019, 22:36:30
@nzenigma I was just thinking , would there be any point removing the supply and return lines at the motor end and hooking up some clear tubing and then run diesel straight from a container? I have run diesel purge like that through one of mine.Ok I guess locating a good ecu is on the cards...starting to get to the point beyond my skill levelOnly need to borrow one to see if that C1611 clears, I don't think @nzenigma would have one from that late?
Not for the diesel only petrol.
Thinking on this over night, Im reluctant to ignore the water in fuel issue. Twice.!!!!
Where did you get it? Could it be still there, or there again?
If it was a crap supplier did he also supply diesel bug?
In that case fuel sensors on rail and HP pump could be contaminated. = car will not start.
Also pick up in tank will be clogged
The codes related to steering could simply be related to long periods of cranking. Have had that happen occasionally.
WHich sensors are we talking about specifically?
Rail pressure is showing normal 25 - 30 Mpa so I think that sensor is ok, not sure about the pump.
Sensor on the end of the rail. That should be the detection pressure which appears to be correct.
The other one is on to of the pump. Overall it seems you have pressure. If no fuel , no pressure, that is as long as all air is purged.
Assume you are dicking around with OP,s car.
I have Wils diesel in the workshop this morning if you want to get comparative data.
Post by: nzenigma on October 19, 2019, 22:41:10
Post by: nzenigma on October 19, 2019, 22:43:55
May have an ECU.
Post by: nzenigma on October 19, 2019, 22:47:00
Sorry, just went back to original post, its an FD!!!! :crazy1:
May have an ECU.
2009 and 2010 are somewhere in shed 2
Post by: tw2005 on October 19, 2019, 23:01:47
Unfortunately I can't today but I was planning to plug into one of mine and get a snap and answer to question is Yes. I'd like to test your theory on extended crank on one of mine and see if it generates the same codes. What would be best/safest way to disable start? Remove fuel supply line?@nzenigma I was just thinking , would there be any point removing the supply and return lines at the motor end and hooking up some clear tubing and then run diesel straight from a container? I have run diesel purge like that through one of mine.Ok I guess locating a good ecu is on the cards...starting to get to the point beyond my skill levelOnly need to borrow one to see if that C1611 clears, I don't think @nzenigma would have one from that late?
Not for the diesel only petrol.
Thinking on this over night, Im reluctant to ignore the water in fuel issue. Twice.!!!!
Where did you get it? Could it be still there, or there again?
If it was a crap supplier did he also supply diesel bug?
In that case fuel sensors on rail and HP pump could be contaminated. = car will not start.
Also pick up in tank will be clogged
The codes related to steering could simply be related to long periods of cranking. Have had that happen occasionally.
WHich sensors are we talking about specifically?
Rail pressure is showing normal 25 - 30 Mpa so I think that sensor is ok, not sure about the pump.
Sensor on the end of the rail. That should be the detection pressure which appears to be correct.
The other one is on to of the pump. Overall it seems you have pressure. If no fuel , no pressure, that is as long as all air is purged.
Assume you are dicking around with OP,s car.
I have Wils diesel in the workshop this morning if you want to get comparative data.
Post by: tw2005 on October 19, 2019, 23:05:10
Has to be series 2, U2 motor. part number already postedSorry, just went back to original post, its an FD!!!! :crazy1:
May have an ECU.
2009 and 2010 are somewhere in shed 2
Post by: nzenigma on October 19, 2019, 23:08:27
Unfortunately I can't today but I was planning to plug into one of mine and get a snap and answer to question is Yes. I'd like to test your theory on extended crank on one of mine and see if it generates the same codes. What would be best/safest way to disable start? Remove fuel supply line?@nzenigma I was just thinking , would there be any point removing the supply and return lines at the motor end and hooking up some clear tubing and then run diesel straight from a container? I have run diesel purge like that through one of mine.Ok I guess locating a good ecu is on the cards...starting to get to the point beyond my skill levelOnly need to borrow one to see if that C1611 clears, I don't think @nzenigma would have one from that late?
Not for the diesel only petrol.
Thinking on this over night, Im reluctant to ignore the water in fuel issue. Twice.!!!!
Where did you get it? Could it be still there, or there again?
If it was a crap supplier did he also supply diesel bug?
In that case fuel sensors on rail and HP pump could be contaminated. = car will not start.
Also pick up in tank will be clogged
The codes related to steering could simply be related to long periods of cranking. Have had that happen occasionally.
WHich sensors are we talking about specifically?
Rail pressure is showing normal 25 - 30 Mpa so I think that sensor is ok, not sure about the pump.
Sensor on the end of the rail. That should be the detection pressure which appears to be correct.
The other one is on to of the pump. Overall it seems you have pressure. If no fuel , no pressure, that is as long as all air is purged.
Assume you are dicking around with OP,s car.
I have Wils diesel in the workshop this morning if you want to get comparative data.
That or unplug sensor on fuel rail.
if you read previous, I now remember we are on an FD, so ECU should be available even though they are off the manual CRDI
Post by: tw2005 on October 19, 2019, 23:10:36
Was that a 2011 - 12 model?Unfortunately I can't today but I was planning to plug into one of mine and get a snap and answer to question is Yes. I'd like to test your theory on extended crank on one of mine and see if it generates the same codes. What would be best/safest way to disable start? Remove fuel supply line?@nzenigma I was just thinking , would there be any point removing the supply and return lines at the motor end and hooking up some clear tubing and then run diesel straight from a container? I have run diesel purge like that through one of mine.Ok I guess locating a good ecu is on the cards...starting to get to the point beyond my skill levelOnly need to borrow one to see if that C1611 clears, I don't think @nzenigma would have one from that late?
Not for the diesel only petrol.
Thinking on this over night, Im reluctant to ignore the water in fuel issue. Twice.!!!!
Where did you get it? Could it be still there, or there again?
If it was a crap supplier did he also supply diesel bug?
In that case fuel sensors on rail and HP pump could be contaminated. = car will not start.
Also pick up in tank will be clogged
The codes related to steering could simply be related to long periods of cranking. Have had that happen occasionally.
WHich sensors are we talking about specifically?
Rail pressure is showing normal 25 - 30 Mpa so I think that sensor is ok, not sure about the pump.
Sensor on the end of the rail. That should be the detection pressure which appears to be correct.
The other one is on to of the pump. Overall it seems you have pressure. If no fuel , no pressure, that is as long as all air is purged.
Assume you are dicking around with OP,s car.
I have Wils diesel in the workshop this morning if you want to get comparative data.
That or unplug sensor on fuel rail.
if you read previous, I now remember we are on an FD, so ECU should be available even though they are off the manual CRDI
Post by: nzenigma on October 19, 2019, 23:11:12
Has to be series 2, U2 motor. part number already postedSorry, just went back to original post, its an FD!!!! :crazy1:
May have an ECU.
2009 and 2010 are somewhere in shed 2
look up KMHDB81TLAU081149
Post by: nzenigma on October 19, 2019, 23:13:12
Post by: tw2005 on October 19, 2019, 23:15:42
DTC sheet, ignore the boost pressure
C1611 would clear, but always came back after a crank. You may be correct on extended crank, also batter was just about shot, I retried with jumpers and it still returned.
(https://i.ibb.co/wryLXc4/DTC-printout.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VpVNZwT)
Post by: tw2005 on October 19, 2019, 23:19:18
KMHDB81TLAU081149No good
391062A713, march 2010
same as what i have. they have different pinouts to the U2
Post by: nzenigma on October 19, 2019, 23:21:52
Post by: tw2005 on October 19, 2019, 23:51:01
KMHD251UMEU139255No
391122A901
Item needed 391162A405
Post by: nzenigma on October 20, 2019, 00:03:33
Our friend can call Mark tomorrow. He has a mobile team and has a full workshop nearby.
Post by: tw2005 on October 20, 2019, 04:36:56
repetitive cranking did not generate any codes on this one.
Target pressure set for start up was 24.5 Mpa
Post by: Dazzler on October 20, 2019, 04:37:58
Post by: artrix on October 20, 2019, 10:15:07
Post by: The Gonz on October 20, 2019, 11:13:04
Post by: nzenigma on October 20, 2019, 21:23:04
tw2005 and nzenigma I cant believe how much thought you two have put into my issue I appreciate it ..... I had a last minute family day today and have missed all the information shared ...many thanks to tw2005 for the time he spent yesterday he was generous with his time and good company. I will be sourcing a new sensor tomorrow and will get on the the mechanic suggested either in the afternoon or tuesday. The amount of knowledge and goodwill shown on the forum is gratefully received, thanks to both of you.
Thanks for the thanks mate :goodjob2:. Ive been snowed under with appointed tasks :rolleyes: :whistler:here in Highvale. Fortunately, the PM route was a useful tool. I'll check in with Mark during the week. Hope its simple. My guess it IS just 'finger trouble".
Post by: artrix on October 21, 2019, 07:10:13
Dave
Post by: nzenigma on October 21, 2019, 08:40:23
'finger trouble"???'finger trouble"??? is a term we useful tradesmen and cavalier DIYers used in the electronics and engineering trade etc. That was in a bygone time. :blubber:
Its something that you have done or missed that is causing the trouble. So, you mentally and physically go back over everything you have done, until you find the missing link. It
"I drew fresh diesel from a separate tank this afternoon and got the faintest hint of a fire." That is the art of fingering :mrgreen: :goodjob:
Makes me more confident about the ECU, and ever more suspicious about your fuel and fuel supply.
By the way, not sending you to some tosspot, Mark builds race motors, he is very tech savvy and fair on pricing. Cheers Gary
Post by: artrix on October 21, 2019, 09:28:02
Post by: artrix on October 22, 2019, 08:40:13
I parked it for four hours came back tonight and it started first kick so hopefully Im good.....will see after it sits all night. At least I know its not an ECU or Injector issue...that would have been financially painful at the moment.
Anyway thanks all for your help its been very appreciated , especially tw2005 and nzenigma.
BLOODY CARS !!! lol thanks everyone will post and update in a couple of days.
Post by: nzenigma on October 22, 2019, 08:55:23
Gerard gave me the good news :phone1: :phone1: :phone1: :phone1: :phone1: en-route to the Sunny Coast.,. Great :goodjob:
My gut feeling and the finger told me it remained a fuel problem. But had ignored the filter housing because that has only been an immediate problem (passed on by a few members).
Brilliant outcome achieved by you and Gerard :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob:
Best Gary
Post by: artrix on October 22, 2019, 12:54:05
Post by: sundiz on October 22, 2019, 14:27:17
Post by: nzenigma on October 22, 2019, 20:49:49
There has been few reported cases here, where the fuel filter housing has been broken. I talked to one service manager some time ago and he told me that when they inspected one broken unit, they found out that the fuel heater element had cracked and it sucked air from the outside causing issues.
Thanks sundiz. The fault is now embedded in my memory bank. :goodjob2:
I read your above comment, then looked to the left and thought a cracked element is the least of this guy's problems. keep that snow shovel handy. :mrgreen:
Post by: tw2005 on October 22, 2019, 21:12:56
There has been few reported cases here, where the fuel filter housing has been broken. I talked to one service manager some time ago and he told me that when they inspected one broken unit, they found out that the fuel heater element had cracked and it sucked air from the outside causing issues.True, It's something I mentioned to Dave that I'd heard of cracked housings and also when the old man had his they reckoned his was sucking air. What's some what weird is I primed that cct and it built pressure, and again whilst we cranked and still no life. There must have been enough air bubbles to affect it. I think removing the lines and subbing with clear tubing may have been interesting to see.
Top job Dave sticking with it though but also an excellent case study to learn from :goodjob2:
Post by: artrix on October 22, 2019, 23:28:21
There has been few reported cases here, where the fuel filter housing has been broken. I talked to one service manager some time ago and he told me that when they inspected one broken unit, they found out that the fuel heater element had cracked and it sucked air from the outside causing issues.True, It's something I mentioned to Dave that I'd heard of cracked housings and also when the old man had his they reckoned his was sucking air. What's some what weird is I primed that cct and it built pressure, and again whilst we cranked and still no life. There must have been enough air bubbles to affect it. I think removing the lines and subbing with clear tubing may have been interesting to see.
Top job Dave sticking with it though but also an excellent case study to learn from :goodjob2:
Thanks Gerard