Cold start engine miss

DeathRattle · **September 13, 2009, 02:43:31**

What would cause the car to misfire from a cold start ?
Been doing it for about a month and slowly getting worse.
Will do it for about 30 seconds.

Tried an experiment yesterday;

turned key on, waited for glow plug to shut down, turned key off,
turned key on, waited for glow plug to shut down, turned key off,
Did this maybe five times.

Started car, perfect idle, drove off, gf said (she drives, not me) hasn't run this good for ages.

Glow plug seems to be running for 1 second before turning off.

Theory,
Either the glows are not running for long enough (temp sensor or timer issue ?)
Or the fuel system is not providing the right pressure (filter or pump issue ?)

Any thoughts before I take it in for warranty ?????????????????

2i30s · **Reply #1: September 13, 2009, 03:03:07**

sounds like she needs a new fuel filter.how many kms have you got on the car.

DeathRattle · **Reply #2: September 13, 2009, 03:12:06**

13,500k

2i30s · **Reply #3: September 13, 2009, 03:23:27**

i dint know at what duration of distance or time your filter needs changing as my cars are petrol i30s,but i do work with diesel engines at work[i make fire pumps] some one like dazz who owns a crdi may know when a fuel filter needs doing.water is another thing it might be.

LuciferDarklord · **Reply #4: September 13, 2009, 07:52:40**

Could be air as well, might be worth trying to bleed the whole system.

Shambles · **Reply #5: September 13, 2009, 09:38:14**

Fuel filter is down for replacement at 3 years or 37,500 miles in mine, but you don't have "miles" down there do you

2i30s · **Reply #6: September 13, 2009, 09:52:53**

Quote from: Shambles on September 13, 2009, 09:38:14

Fuel filter is down for replacement at 3 years or 37,500 miles in mine, but you don't have "miles" down there do you

so about 50,000 kms.

DeathRattle · **Reply #7: September 13, 2009, 09:57:01**

was wondering if its anything to do with the filters that have the 3,000 rpm limit bug on them......

Dazzler · **Reply #8: September 13, 2009, 13:43:35**

Bit of an odd one DR??

Lorian · **Reply #9: September 13, 2009, 18:06:35**

I'd put money on the filter.

Merlot · **Reply #10: September 14, 2009, 06:29:04**

Quote from: Shambles on September 13, 2009, 09:38:14

Fuel filter is down for replacement at 3 years or 37,500 miles in mine, but you don't have "miles" down there do you

Hey Shambles yea mate we have miles down here just call them kilometres now

DeathRattle · **Reply #11: September 14, 2009, 08:31:48**

Just trying to get a better understanding of how things work, being our first diesel etc.
When i have the time I'll take it in and see what they say...

LuciferDarklord · **Reply #12: September 14, 2009, 09:00:15**

If its a fuel supply problem or air in the fuel, it will not be a 'miss' as such, more like a rough idle and hesitation / surging. If its a glow plug (has anyone actually confirmed there are individual glow plugs in the 1.6lt?) then it will only 'miss' on that particular cylinder. It will sound similar to a petrol 4cyl when one spark plug lead is removed. Normally you would expect some whitish smoke too as the fuel is not burning in that cylinder. Another thing it could be, if its only one cylinder, is a sticky valve or sticky injector. I'd get it looked at straight away as some of those issues could lead to further problems downstream from the problem, and they may baulk at warranty if you havent had it looked at straight away. Play safe, take it straight to the dealer.

DeathRattle · **Reply #13: September 14, 2009, 09:06:51**

Hmmm, true.
Do have an rdo or three owing so will try and organise asap.

Will keep you all informed......

**Reply #14: September 14, 2009, 09:27:30**

Quote from: LuciferDarklord on September 14, 2009, 09:00:15

... If its a glow plug (has anyone actually confirmed there are individual glow plugs in the 1.6lt?) then it will only 'miss' on that particular cylinder.

From what I understand, there is a single preheater (like a large glow plug I guess) in the air intake. It simply heats the air so that the first burst of air into the cylinders is warm and aids ignition. This was written about in an posting some time ago.

Bob

LuciferDarklord · **Reply #15: September 14, 2009, 13:46:10**

Yeah I thought that was the case - but I couldnt see any fat wires going to the inlet manifold anywhere (normally they draw a fair bit of current those preheaters) Another post said that the dealer replaced one of his glow plugs and they have individual ones in each combustion chamber, however I didnt see the usual 'buzbar' that feeds current to them all, being 4 valve and injector in the center doesnt leave much room for a glowplug. All hearsay really until I see a pic or a Hyundai service tech can confirm. DI engines do not need a glow plug to start generally, thats why i'm a little concerned for DeathRattle coz really it shouldnt miss just because of a faulty glow plug... but once again i'm just shooting off the hip here coz I really dont know the ins and outs of this engine. If I start ripping stuff off my missus will have my nurries in the vice!

Lakes · **Reply #16: September 14, 2009, 20:43:45**

Sorry to hear about your problem.
my i30 has always started easy, i don't think it uses glow plugs, because the diesel trucks at work have glow plugs and the light on them goes off that fast, you have to be looking or don't see the warm up light. the old glow plugs on truck's took longer to warm up but the truck's ten years or newer have very fast warm up time. thats why i don't think the i30 uses glow plugs more likley as Bob ( ouri30 ) states a intake manifold heater, as my i30 takes a few seconds to go off but i always wait for it to go out before starting.i don't know if it would matter just with the old slow warm up glow plugs if you kept starting a diesel with them before the light went out they would burn out then you had no glow plug. then you have to use Eather to start them ( more trouble )
hope you find the problem.
cheers

Shambles · **Reply #17: September 14, 2009, 21:48:19**

I think our i30s have glow plugs, fuel filter and air inlet heater

See the fuse gauge chart...

**Reply #18: September 15, 2009, 13:39:44**

yes they do have glow plugs i pull off the cover and had a look

eye30 · **Reply #19: September 15, 2009, 18:28:10**

Glow plug light has to go out before you kick the starter motor otherwise it will not always fire up.

Be patient and wait until the light goes out.

In cooler weather mine takes slightly longer to go out.

**Reply #20: September 16, 2009, 02:39:41**

I'm sure I'm not alone. I just hop in and start the car and it fires immediately. Either the glow plugs are not critical in temperate climates or they heat sufficiently while engine is cranking anyway.

LuciferDarklord · **Reply #21: September 16, 2009, 03:16:49**

As I've said before, Direct Injection engines do not need glow plugs to start in above-freezing conditions. The surface area of the combustion chamber is so small as the compression ratio is high, very little heat is lost to the engine from the air being compressed. My understanding is that are only for emmision control and very cold climates. Thats exactly the reason it worries me that DeathRattle has this problem as I cant see it being caused by a faulty glow plug.

Quote from: lindlake on September 15, 2009, 13:39:44

yes they do have glow plugs i pull off the cover and had a look

Interesting, could you see them just by pulling off the main engine cover or did you remove the valve cover? Any pics?

Dazzler · **Reply #22: September 16, 2009, 09:52:45**

Quote from: Pip on September 16, 2009, 02:39:41

I'm sure I'm not alone. I just hop in and start the car and it fires immediately. Either the glow plugs are not critical in temperate climates or they heat sufficiently while engine is cranking anyway.

Yeah .. me too

**Reply #23: September 16, 2009, 12:45:34**

Quote from: LuciferDarklord on September 16, 2009, 03:16:49

As I've said before, Direct Injection engines do not need glow plugs to start in above-freezing conditions. The surface area of the combustion chamber is so small as the compression ratio is high, very little heat is lost to the engine from the air being compressed. My understanding is that are only for emmision control and very cold climates. Thats exactly the reason it worries me that DeathRattle has this problem as I cant see it being caused by a faulty glow plug.

Quote from: lindlake on September 15, 2009, 13:39:44
yes they do have glow plugs i pull off the cover and had a look

Interesting, could you see them just by pulling off the main engine cover or did you remove the valve cover? Any pics?

yes i just pulled off the cover only two bolts the glow plugs are near the turbo manfold? my i30 needs the glow plugs every time if not it takes about 5 seconds to start

[deleted]

Lakes · **Reply #24: September 16, 2009, 21:00:46**

just make sure you wait till glow plug light goes out, b4 starting as eventualy you burn out the glow plugs. i have started mine fast without looking at glow plug light. but always look at light now. as takes a while to go out. but mine has never had a problem starting.

LuciferDarklord · **Reply #25: September 17, 2009, 04:11:33**

Thanks Lindlake, that clears that one up! What sort of temps are you in to notice difficult starting without 'glow time'?

**Reply #26: September 19, 2009, 12:16:19**

in vic it gets down to about 8 dg where we live

LuciferDarklord · **Reply #27: September 19, 2009, 13:12:19**

OK thats pretty mild, I've had a few minus 2 DegC mornings here, but I habitually glow my engine before starting. I know the older Direct Injection engines I'm used to working with are a little higher compression ratio than the i30, so maybe when the temp gets low the i30 does need a glow plug to prevent any missing.

Cold start engine miss - Glow plugs or fuel issue ?