Post by: Thumper on May 29, 2008, 13:34:01
I'll refill again tomorrow and see how much a free flowing exhaust helps with economy on the highway.
Thus far, very happy with a $280 mod that looks factory stock, sounds quiet inside at legal speeds, yet has a growl under boost/acceleration.
Forgot to take the camera with me when the exhaust was fitted. Will grab some photos tomorrow.
Post by: Dazzler on May 29, 2008, 13:43:26
Can't wait to see the photos
Cheers,
Dazz
Post by: Thumper on May 29, 2008, 13:54:12
Post by: encountar on May 29, 2008, 14:06:46
Your doing exactly what i wanted to do, and i must say, those results are surprising!!!!
can i ask a favour however, if at all possible can you take a video of insite the car with some normal acceleration and then gun it from stopped and from rolling, would love to hear this exhaust for myself before doing the change to my own i30!
also very interested inf uel consumption, one thing that would turn me off doing this, but it doesnt seem to have affected your car all too much (and im sure you were leadfooted after doing the change <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />)
thanks in advance!
Post by: i30Dave on May 29, 2008, 14:09:51
(http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo286/i30ownersclub/mom.jpg)
Post by: Thumper on May 29, 2008, 14:15:48
Will see what I can do for a video.
When I had the exhaust made, I made sure that the old one can easily be bolted back on. (Nothing on the factory exhaust was cut) 10min job, tops, to change back to the stock exhaust.
EDIT: Modder of the month, LOVE IT!
Post by: Dazzler on May 29, 2008, 14:17:26
Post by: Thumper on May 29, 2008, 15:53:25
Rolling start from 40km/h is where it shines! 3.40 seconds 40km/h to 80km/h
Took some video and audio of the new exhaust, honestly, it sounds like a WRX with a stage 1 sports exhaust. Has a nice 'burble' to it, from outside.
Encoding video for you all now.......And making a coffee.
Post by: eye30 on May 29, 2008, 17:08:48
Quote from: "Thumper"
Though had some wheel spin, sadly
Do you have ESP. If so this should, I think, prevent wheel spin.
Post by: Thumper on May 29, 2008, 17:31:32
Ok, http://dragon-reality.com/Clip1.wmv (http://dragon-reality.com/Clip1.wmv) is of the standing start. (Private road, of course) 8-)
Post by: eye30 on May 29, 2008, 17:41:14
140km's = 90 mile per hour.
In Uk speed limits are:
Urban 30 mph (50K) sometimes 40 mph (65k)
non urban 60 mph (100k)
Dual carrageways 70 mph (115k)
Motorways 70 mph (115k)
so 140 k's is normal speed on uk motorways!
What is the legal limit by you if you have to use private road to test speed.
Post by: Thumper on May 29, 2008, 17:53:36
As for the sound, yup, quiet, has a note only when your on boost, nothing that would attract the wrong attention. Interesting note, from such a small diesel, though, isn't it?
Post by: tk421 on May 29, 2008, 18:23:30
Quote from: "eye30"
Do you have ESP. If so this should, I think, prevent wheel spin.I don't think ESP would help the cause. Mine has operated on a couple of occasions and it functions for greater control, but would have hindered the acceleration off the line.
Great Vids, Thumper
Tim
Post by: eye30 on May 29, 2008, 18:39:12
Extract from Wikipedia: (ESP also known as ESC)
Electronic stability control (ESC) is a computerized technology that improves the safety of a vehicle's handling by detecting and preventing skids. When ESC detects loss of steering control, ESC automatically applies individual brakes to help "steer" the vehicle where the driver wants to go. Braking is automatically applied to individual wheels, such as the inner rear wheel to counter oversteer, or the outer front wheel to counter understeer. Some ESC systems also reduce engine power until control is regained.
Post by: Shambles on May 29, 2008, 18:57:32
Great vids, thanks for sharing <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />[/size]
Post by: tk421 on May 29, 2008, 19:07:23
From my experience, it’s not a smooth process. It pulses the brake applications, and feels like a series of little skids rather than smoothly limiting wheel speed. You’ll certainly know when it’s operating.
Both times it happened to me have been when I was accelerating from a standstill. So it was the brakes operating on the front wheels whilst power was applied at the same time - not a good combination. ;)
Post by: Thumper on May 30, 2008, 02:38:54
I like it. It's different. Will make people think "What the, what the heck is in that?" and will not attract the 'wrong' attention from the boys in Blue.
As for the acceleration video, I'm surprised that all test show the i30 diesel can only manage 0-100km/h in 12-13 seconds. Mine has felt alot faster and punchier than that from day one! (Maybe because it was a demo? One that has been booted from day one!)
Anyways, I'm more than happy with it.
Post by: encountar on May 30, 2008, 05:29:46
!I cant watch them yet (work computer) but will be the first thing i check when i get home.
Picking up my i30 on sat.. waiting on the loan to settle, should all go through this afternoon and i can get my car first thing sat morning (damn working afternoon/night shift!!!)
Post by: LeeUm on May 30, 2008, 10:36:48
Post by: Thumper on May 30, 2008, 12:23:24
In fact, the wife hasn't noticed any difference in sound (Inside) but said it feels smoother, and more powerful. I just replied that the engine must be freeing up! :roll: So, from the back seat I mentioned "Just tickle it, you'll be fine. Pick that gap!" With that she put her foot down and sling shotted through the gap in traffic.
Her comment "Wow, goes better with three people on board."
Little does she know! 8-)
If there is an issue, I can just bolt the original exhaust back on. 10min job.
Post by: Dazzler on May 30, 2008, 13:19:58
Thanks for sharing (and going to all that trouble...)
Post by: encountar on May 30, 2008, 13:35:50
loving the sound of it
Post by: jamiec on May 30, 2008, 15:15:59
alot better with less backpressure it should be more economical when driving
without the leadfoot. I am waiting and hoping that the economy is better.
I had a toyota corolla turbo that i put a high flow exhaust on and performed better
and had better economy without leadfooting it
Post by: Dazzler on May 30, 2008, 22:55:19
Have you had a drive or ride in an I30 yet? We'll have to catch up soon. My I30 will seem a little boring compared to Thumpers (and some of the others!)
Cheers,
Dazz
Do you like the new site?
Post by: jamiec on May 30, 2008, 23:44:00
Yes i had a drive in an i30 crdi manual a couple of weeks ago as i had seen one
at the dealers on my sometimes nightly walk around the local area ( dealer is only two blocks
away) so thought i would go in and test drive one. very nice car it goes great for a 1.6l motor
only problem was test drive to short :D
jamie
Post by: Waja on May 31, 2008, 09:55:36
Post by: Thumper on May 31, 2008, 10:07:42
Quote from: "link_1111"
daym, the revs are staying high while you were drivin! but yeah! i love the sound of it, esp since you can still hear the car all the way down the other end of the road! haha, great work thumper! funny watching your avg fuel counter just tick up by .1 though! haha...
Yeah, wrecked my average by .1lt/100km :twisted:
The sound is getting better as the exhaust beds in. I just went to the local shops to drop off a video, as I was pulling out, just above idle, you can really hear the turbo whine/whistle from the exhaust. So much so that several of the local hoons stopped talking to each other, and I heard one comment "Is that thing a turbo? Nah, couldn't be. Shit, it is turbod! What the heck is it?"
As I got out onto the main road, I gave it a little in 2nd, came on boost, had a little wheel spin, then had a chuckle as all of the boys picked their jaws up off the ground.
Just wait until they find out it's an oil burner!
Post by: Dazzler on May 31, 2008, 12:00:04
Stop it.. yur makin' me jealous (You mustn't have a she who must be obeyed...)Would have luved to see those hoons faces...
Post by: Lakes on May 31, 2008, 20:41:37
i know most diesel's don't need the Turbo worked on as they are only low rev, were a small 4 cylinder turbo needs the turbo done every 100,000k as the turbine spins at high speeds, thats a lot of work as i have personally watch those turbine's being balanced pain in the butt job!
personally i think that is a good mod, if it gained more low end TQ, but if it lost low end TQ it would not be as good.
did it gain low end TQ?
Cheers
Post by: Thumper on June 01, 2008, 03:45:32
As I said, that is the first time I revved it that high. It took me by surprise how easily the revs climbed and how easy it wanted to stay at the top end. I normally never go above 2,000rpm. (Hence I've gotten the best economy thus far for a club member here)
As for low end torque, listen to the second video, that is a roll on, 2nd gear, 1,600rpm onwards. The pick up down low is better than before. The CRDi feels like a large petrol engine (One that is at least twice the size)
I wish to keep my i30 for a long time!
Post by: Lakes on June 01, 2008, 08:30:43
but the results sound good. you said it sounds like a WRX, they are horizontally opposed like a old VW, i have heard them in the past and did not like VW's sound
is it that bad?
Post by: Dazzler on June 01, 2008, 08:36:12
If you give a standard i30 CRDi a bit of a rev, I reckon it sounds a bit like a WRX (but a bit more subtle) From what I could hear on the video it was still similar but a bit more free revving...
Is that a fair description folks...?
Post by: Thumper on June 01, 2008, 14:51:30
Picture one, 2.5inch piping from the flange, back. (All new exhaust painted black)
(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/394/10046751uc0.jpg)
Picture two, original rear muffler.
(http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/1319/10046791ra1.jpg)
Reasons why I changed the exhaust, very restrictive piping into and out of the muffler.
(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2778/10046851vm3.jpg)
(http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/2566/10046861ij7.jpg)
Close up to the front of the exhaust system showing the particulate filter and resonator.
(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7552/10046771ak3.jpg)
Will get a better sound file later.
Post by: Lakes on June 02, 2008, 08:32:06
thanks again for taking the time to post and take pic's. have you had time to test economy at rev's like you used to get your great economy numbers? as i'm really interested in things like this. also was there a weight saving in this? was it noticeable or just minimal?
cheers
Post by: Dazzler on June 02, 2008, 10:36:09
Lovely Pix (didn't think I'd ever say that about pictures of an exhaust but I'm excited...
) This might be the Mod I just have to have will be interested to see if it helps economy as well as performance! Did you get a national company to do the job?Regards,
Dazz
Post by: Waja on June 03, 2008, 07:48:28
Post by: Lakes on June 03, 2008, 08:24:44
Post by: Waja on June 03, 2008, 09:07:58
Post by: Lakes on June 03, 2008, 21:05:27
cheers
Post by: Dazzler on June 03, 2008, 23:32:03
I'm a cheapskate too but as Thumper says "he can bolt the original back on in about 10 minutes" so essentially he now has a spare...
Is the exhaust covered for a full 5 years under warranty (I don't usually keep mine that long so never had to replace an exhaust)
Got a mate that's had 2 or 3 Mitsubishi Magnas and he has had to replace burnt out exhausts every 18 months or so! (expensive)
Cheers,
Dazz
Post by: Thumper on June 04, 2008, 11:24:31
The nice sound is an added bonus! :lol:
(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/96/1004746dp8.jpg)
Next will be one of my 'economy' runs, with the intercooler cover fitted, to see if I can beat 3.8lt/100km
Post by: EymaTeapot on June 04, 2008, 11:42:56
Just wondering though how long it was between the two ful runs with and with out flow through exaust. Reason i ask is if the car was relatively new first time, and run in wth several thousand Kilometres on it, that could make a difference. I have just over 6000k on mine now and have noticed a small improvement in fuel economy.
Either way, The results you post sure look promising.
I for one am very interested in following your example on the exaust. I have done nearly everything else i can now, short of a body kit.
Post by: Thumper on June 04, 2008, 12:09:57
While it's off, if you wish to borrow it for a day or two, be my guest! 8-)
Post by: Dazzler on June 04, 2008, 12:19:56
Hope you take up the offer would be interested in your feedback about the exhaust if you notice a marked difference in performance and economy as well I will definitely do the upgrade!
Not that I doubt you Thumper but that would be the clincher!
rgds,
Dazz
No pressure
Post by: EymaTeapot on June 04, 2008, 12:28:38
I am very tempted by your offer.
I dont have a Mechanical bone in my body, would your offer extend to helping me fit it? I would provide the beers of course. ( hope you like homebrew)
Post by: Thumper on June 04, 2008, 12:58:25
Sure, no problems. It's rather easy, and I'll show you how. (Only needs one spanner and several minutes)
I'm curious to see if it's just my motor freeing up, or a definite difference!
Let me know when you have some free time.
Post by: EymaTeapot on June 04, 2008, 13:14:49
That would be great. Just let me know when you intend to do next fuel run and i will fit in around you.
By the way, why have you selected the name Thumper?
Is it something to do with the Bambi's mate, the cartoon rabbit, or do you just like whacking people?
Post by: Lakes on June 04, 2008, 20:44:45
now your taking a big risk giving Teapot that pipe you won't be able to catch him if he likes it :D
cheers
Post by: Lakes on June 04, 2008, 20:53:13
Quote from: "Thumper"
*Chuckles*
Sure, no problems. It's rather easy, and I'll show you how. (Only needs one spanner and several minutes)
I'm curious to see if it's just my motor freeing up, or a definite difference!
Let me know when you have some free time.
Thumper, you owe it to yourself to find a good wheel driven dyno and do the test! but make sure you have heat proof gloves, go there with stock pipe and do three power runs, you need three to get an accurate # as the second and third power runs will show a gain over the first run just normal on dyno's ( oil warms up, cobwebs blow out so on ) then get under the car remove stock pipe fit the pipe you had made up, would be good if you could fit an air sensor in the pipe to see how air fuel ratio is effected, just i've never used one with a diesel but i can find out , i have an air sensor with AFR read out and play back real time, myself if they can be used with diesel i would let you use it.
Post by: Thumper on June 08, 2008, 05:50:51
Quote from: "EYMATEAPOT"
Thumper,
That would be great. Just let me know when you intend to do next fuel run and i will fit in around you.
By the way, why have you selected the name Thumper?
Is it something to do with the Bambi's mate, the cartoon rabbit, or do you just like whacking people?
No problems. :lol:
Quote from: "Lakes"
Thumper, sounds like the restrictive exhaust kills economy at speeds above 90kph, wonder what would happen if you used the cover on the intercooler in cold weather now? the pipe might be leaning it out a bit at speed?
now your taking a big risk giving Teapot that pipe you won't be able to catch him if he likes it :D
cheers
I'm in the process of fitting more temperature probes, so I can record what exactly is going on when I cover the intercooler.
As for leaning out, that is how a diesel engine works. (They are designed to run very lean when on light/low throttle application)
Down low, an increase, up high, an increase, in the mid-range, not sure yet.
Yeah, keeping my mods simple. 8-)
As for the air sensor, again, a diesel can run too rich, hurting performance. Yet, running too lean, well, it doesn't go! (Simple function of diesels. Just add more fuel for it to go faster!)
Post by: Lakes on June 08, 2008, 12:14:52
the dyno your talking about sounds like what i have seen for bikes they hook the chain to the dyno to eliminate the tyre friction and a few other things. i still like the engine dyno's the best but have to pull the engine out so too much trouble for a street car.
is your friend building the dyno?
Post by: Thumper on June 10, 2008, 02:37:02
Quote from: "Lakes"
what AFR is ideal for diesel Thumper?
the dyno your talking about sounds like what i have seen for bikes they hook the chain to the dyno to eliminate the tyre friction and a few other things. i still like the engine dyno's the best but have to pull the engine out so too much trouble for a street car.
is your friend building the dyno?
Well, diesel is a fickle mistress, compared to petrol.
A petrol engine, stoichiometric is 14.7:1, it will run at this range almost all the time. (Will try to)
A diesel engine, stoichiometric is 14.42:1, with a very big BUT!
When a diesel engine runs at stoichiometric, it will create plumes of black smoke. (Yet it will make the most power at this A/F ratio)
A normal diesel engine runs about 60-100:1 A/F ratio at idle. Up to 40:1 on the highway.
Allowing a diesel to breath better will allow more fuel to be used, thus creating more power.
Some reading on the subject:
http://www.diesel-central.com/News/cackle.htm (http://www.diesel-central.com/News/cackle.htm)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine)
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm? ... 502&page=1 (http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=130502&page=1)
As for the dyno, I am waiting for it become available for a 'reasonable' price.
Post by: Lakes on June 10, 2008, 09:03:56
think 14.5 AFR on a petrol is for economy but can't use wide open throtle for too long or would damage motor, i found my petrol motor made the best power at 13.0 AFR but different motors seem to like different AFR some petrol i've seen liked it in the high 12's this is with no turbo.
this set up i have has a G force reading and a few other things and if you program weight and so on and take it for a drive with it hooked up it can give very close HP numbers, can play it back on lap top.
thanks for the links i'll look at them.
Post by: TheBunyip on June 18, 2008, 13:17:30
Try this quote to get you started
Diesel Exhausts
So when thinking about petrol engine and diesel engine exhausts, what are some of the differences to be kept in mind?
• Depending on the age of the diesel car, the exhaust might contain multiple mufflers, cat converter(s) and a particulate filter. If all these components are present, upgrading the exhaust to a genuinely higher flow design might be very expensive. In fact in some cases it might be impossible, especially if emissions are to remain legal.
• Despite the lower diesel engine exhaust temperature and different combustion behaviour, diesel and petrol engine mufflers are interchangeable – diesels don’t have unique mufflers.
• Diesels have very high gas flows all the time. In a turbo diesel, the gas flows will increase with load, as is the case with a petrol engine. But when off-boost, eg in light load cruise at 1500 rpm, the diesel engine will be inhaling and exhaling the same amount of air as a petrol engine of the same capacity would be at a full throttle 1500rpm! Therefore, the average mass airflow is much higher in a diesel engine than a petrol engine. As a result of this,a restrictive exhaust is likely to cause significant pumping losses (where the pistons have to push against exhaust back-pressure) much more often in a diesel than in a petrol engine. So while maximum exhaust flow of a 2 litre turbo diesel running 15 psi boost is no greater than of a petrol 2 litre turbo running 15 psi boost, on the road any backpressure will be felt more often by the diesel. Bottom line: in diesels, exhaust flow is very important! (My Italics.)
This is the conclusion from a great article at AutoSpeed. http://autospeed.com/cms/A_109291/article.html
Now don't all rush out and upgrade your CDRi exhausts.
Post by: Shambles on June 18, 2008, 13:54:00
Post by: Dazzler on June 19, 2008, 00:43:48
He was thinkin' of my car...
(http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo286/i30ownersclub/CDRexhaust.jpg)
Post by: EymaTeapot on June 19, 2008, 03:11:41
Sound like there might be some logic in what Thumper has been preaching us all this time.
Sorry Thumper, i never doubted you...Really.
Post by: Thumper on June 21, 2008, 15:33:00
Still waiting for the fuel light to come on.
This is pure highway driving at normal highway speeds (110km/h)
Post by: Lakes on June 29, 2008, 00:00:09
Post by: Thumper on June 29, 2008, 10:09:23
If I slow down to 90km/h on the highway, 3.7lt/100km is what I have done from Canberra to Sydney, then back to Canberra.
Post by: Dazzler on June 29, 2008, 10:13:15
Post by: EymaTeapot on June 29, 2008, 11:26:48
Very nice. It thumps just like his namesake.
It has a nice, subtle growl.
Cheers Thumper, all you need now is a nice set of alloys to top it all off.
Post by: Dazzler on June 29, 2008, 11:48:54
Post by: EymaTeapot on June 29, 2008, 12:00:59
Post by: Dazzler on June 29, 2008, 22:27:54
Would have loved to be a fly on the wall when you realised who you were talkin' too..
Post by: Lakes on June 30, 2008, 11:52:53
Quote from: "Thumper"
Normal highway (110km/h) and city peak hour, 4.44lt/100km
If I slow down to 90km/h on the highway, 3.7lt/100km is what I have done from Canberra to Sydney, then back to Canberra.
Thats a good gain all round with that system you have Thumper! thanks for sharing.
i have 5,000k up and when i drive with the CC and set it to around 90kph out west best i got combined with some Sydney traffic and friday afternoon traffic from sydney to Katoomba then not too bad all the way out near Dubbo and return to Sydney on sunday best i got was 4.4 L /per 100K working it out when i did the same trip and set speed on speedlimit with fastest speed being around 115kph economy went to about 4.9L/Per 100K so your numbers look like a great gain to me.
Post by: Lakes on July 02, 2008, 11:18:42
thanks in advance.
Post by: Thumper on July 02, 2008, 11:40:55
Lakes, honestly, in the past Hyundai have been fine with all of my previous Hyundai's (Two Trajets, One Accent which I supercharged, One Getz) with regards to sports exhausts.
All they ask is, not to touch any emission gear. (IE: On petrol engine, cat back only)
Yes, you would gain better flow by changing it from behind the first canister after the turbo (Supposed DPF) but it will not be a simple 5 minute bolt on mod. Plus I suspect it will be too close to the 'supposed' DPF, so I did not take that route.
As for noise, well, on a VGT, when vacuum is applied to it, it will close the vanes to direct all exhaust gas through the turbo, effectively muffling the exhaust noise. Once you reach maximum boost and the vanes open up, the exhaust will get rather noisy.
Simple thing, whilst idling, pull the vacuum pipe from the turbo, it will open the vanes and your exhaust will be at it's noisiest! It will sound something akin to a WRX turbo with a slightly open exhaust.
It 'thumps' :D
As for outright sound levels, your mileage will vary with different mufflers and different pipes.
Mine, I believe is the right sound, for the right flow for the right economy. (Plus DB output at idle and off boost is below legal limits) :lol:
Post by: Lakes on July 02, 2008, 20:40:24
thanks again, the guy quoted $300. but as i said he does really nice work and very neat welds, have seen work he has done on classic Hot Rods, and those guy's treat there cars like it's a family member
cheers and thanks again
Post by: bikejockey on July 03, 2008, 00:03:33
I've had a look back through this topic to see if you've mentioned where you got the exhaust made - any chance you can tell me, being an ACT local as well?
I won't be buying one yet of course because then I'll have an exhaust but no car - not that I'm whinging or anything...
Post by: Lakes on July 03, 2008, 04:10:30
thanks again.
Lakes
ps i should have it done next weekend, also now i have taken a look i think fitting the bung for my air sensor would be a waist of time as it would be too far back from heads and take too long to get a reading to be really accurate.
Post by: Thumper on July 03, 2008, 06:01:11
Give the North side a miss for exhaust shops (I have been around to almost all of them) try Woden, Tuggers or Fyshwick for a shop.
Just ask them for a free flowing rear box, complete with new flange made, that exits at the factory location. Reason, you would like to fit your old exhaust back on, easily when it goes in for service. :lol:
Diesels don't tend to 'boom' like petrol engines with sports exhausts.
Post by: bikejockey on July 03, 2008, 07:33:16
Post by: Lakes on July 03, 2008, 11:12:05
if you were interested i could probably get him to duplicate it, so you could drive down and would only need to bolt it on and not have to wait for it to be made up.
cheers Lakes
Post by: CHB on July 06, 2008, 08:09:34
Quote from: "Lakes"
bikejocky, if you have trouble getting a place to do the job, wait till after i get mine done next week and i'll see how it goes. if it turns out good i'll let you know how to find Chad the guy who is doing it as easy to get to from Canberra.
if you were interested i could probably get him to duplicate it, so you could drive down and would only need to bolt it on and not have to wait for it to be made up.
cheers Lakes
Lakes I'd definately be interested in this
Keep us posted!
Post by: Lakes on July 06, 2008, 10:18:40
Post by: CHB on July 09, 2008, 06:52:43
but he did say a sports muffler will be roughly 230 with flange abt another 70 bux..
Post by: Lakes on July 09, 2008, 09:59:44
i'll get mine done this saturday see what happens.
good luck.
Post by: Lakes on July 12, 2008, 11:03:00
have to wait till i can duplicate my last trip with this system on to check economy.
everyone say's its very quite but when i give it a full power run my friend said its quite but can hear a resognator type sound from pipe, he said sounds good would not know it was a diesel.
cost $250 so cheap enough and only need i large screw driver to leaver the two mounts out of the rubber then undo two bolts holding flange and its off, reverse that with stock system and its back to stock. easy enough.
Post by: Dazzler on July 12, 2008, 11:28:41
Post by: CHB on July 12, 2008, 14:24:49
You got it for a brilliant price as well! mates rates? heh
Sorry, if this has been mentioned before but will changing the exhaust really void warranty? I don't think i read anything about it
Post by: Lakes on July 12, 2008, 21:17:46
Quote from: "CHB"
sounds great lakes
You got it for a brilliant price as well! mates rates? heh
Sorry, if this has been mentioned before but will changing the exhaust really void warranty? I don't think i read anything about it
I don't think this would effect warranty as it is still very quite so it is legal, you only change the back part of the system probably 45% if you measure from the flange at back of turbo, you still have the cat converter and the resognator. only thing i could see that might need to look at is that the stock muffler that you remove has a built in heat shield between the top of muff and the floor of the car, but as it's not between fuel tank not realt a worry the fuel tank has its own heat shield. also as the stock muff is restrictive it would build up far more heat than the low restriction straight through sport muff that replaces it, and yet again the sports muff is smaller so not as close as stock muff. but i drove for 1/2 and hour along the M2 then M7 to near the end of the M7 at 100+KPH and as soon as i got there we had car up on hoyst and had the stock part we replaced off in a few minutes and i picked it up and it was not hot at all, maybe in summer they might get hot? i even felt the Cat and could touch it, something i could not do with my V8 Ute as the cats get extreamly hot in no time.
cheers
PS have you showed those three wrenchs what an i30 is? LOL
Post by: Thumper on July 13, 2008, 10:14:05
Post by: Lakes on July 13, 2008, 10:30:18
my friend that did they pipe has two LS2 comodores one is a Monaro the other is a late model ute so he is used to them and they go strong, he did not drive my car b4 doing the pipe but he took it for a drive after to check it out, he also works on diesels, he was impressed with how it went he told me to driving it and come back and tell him if i can feel a gain as it goes really good. i could feel it from the word GO as i hit the throtle in first.
Love it!
Post by: Thumper on July 13, 2008, 11:15:04
Now everyone is going to get a free flowing exhaust on their diesels! 8-)
I would have to say that the i30 diesel is the only vehicle where a free flowing exhaust makes such a significant difference. You'll notice the engine will freely rev right to the top end!
Spools up sooner, and quicker, and should have a nice turbine jet sound to it now. (Open the window, take off from the lights, you'll hear the turbo spool nicely) :lol:
Love it! Turns heads and returns outstanding economy!
Post by: CHB on July 13, 2008, 12:10:35
I figure i'll pass on getting an exhaust through them, especially since $250 is alot cheaper lol.
You going to put up some videos like Thumper?
From all the descriptions and excitement coming from you both I feel like i'm missing out lol...is the sound really loud when you're going at like 100+K?
So the reason for changing back to stock exhaust for the service is more like a precaution?
Post by: Thumper on July 13, 2008, 13:53:30
Quote from: "CHB"
is the sound really loud when you're going at like 100+K?
Dead quiet, even with mild acceleration.
It only starts to make a low 'thrum' when under full boost (Like overtaking a truck or going up a steep'ish hill) even then you notice a slight note. Nothing like a low booming drone of a petrol engined vehicle.
Quote
So the reason for changing back to stock exhaust for the service is more like a precaution?
Yes, and to change back and forth to see if it actually makes any difference. (Plus if anything happens to the modified exhaust, you can just bolt the nearly brand new factory exhaust back on in under 5 mins.)
Post by: Lakes on July 13, 2008, 20:20:51
as he has done mine if you phoned him he would have everything he needs ready, so PM me i'll give you his phone#.cheers
Post by: EymaTeapot on July 14, 2008, 01:01:08
I would be interested in that exuast myself. I was waiting to see how CHB got on with his here in Canberra but judging by his last post, might give it a miss. I would be interested to see if you get the same fuel econ improvements as Thumper before i deffinatley decide. Look forward to seeing your reports on this.
Cheers
Post by: CHB on July 14, 2008, 04:43:17
Will PM you for the details but like Eymateapot I might wait another few weeks first, just incase!
Didn't realise this guy would be in Sydney, i was just there the weekend passed lol
Might have to coincide me getting the exhaust with a trip to sydney..save a bit of fuel heh..Glad that it doesn't fully drone you out...I don't think i could stand that driving for 3 hours lol
Post by: Lakes on July 14, 2008, 11:02:39
but i'll tell you there is a definite gain in power and Torque, just no idea what the gain would be but it would have to be say 10HP at least and maybe 10Ft Pound Torque as i've seen gains like that testing on dyno and the gain i'm feeling and seeing 9 comparing what i can beat going to work
. but talk is cheap. i'll wait and see how the economy goes.on way home from work i was taking my normal back way home on the last section i have to take some twisty bends and lot of hill's, well taking one bend where i turn off into another street then climb a hill, i was in 3rd gear and it felt like i was in 2nd gear, then going up that hill i had shifted to 4th and i took a corner and just put my foot gently on the throtle and it excellerated so smoothly and willingly i checked that indeed it was in 4th gear as it felt like it was in 3rd gear. there is a gain there you feel. its very nice too as no loss at any rev just gain if you understand my meaning. like gain you feel at lower rev as well as higher rev has to be a good gain.
cheers
Post by: Dazzler on July 15, 2008, 10:18:45
I've decided to bite the bullet and get my exhaust done like yours asap . I'm getting Carline Mufflers and Midas to give me a quote...
Am going to show them your photos and quote your specs if that is o/k.
The carline guy said it would help if he knew what brand of turbo muffler they used for your car (part number if possible) do you know that info?
Now I've decided to go that way I'm nearly as impatient as Nick from Belgium
(so might have to P.M. you in case you miss this posting) Thanks in advance..
Post by: Lakes on July 15, 2008, 11:01:18
just my 1 cents worth mate. you will love it!
Post by: Dazzler on July 15, 2008, 11:11:14
I'll quote you as well...
Post by: EymaTeapot on July 15, 2008, 11:58:48
I know that you only had your muffler fitted a few days ago but what are your thougths?
Have you been able to detect a noticeable difference in the fuel efficiency?
Post by: Lakes on July 15, 2008, 12:09:51
John
Post by: EymaTeapot on July 15, 2008, 12:23:39
Like Dazz and CHB and others to no doubt, I look forward to the results of that fuel run.
Cheers
Post by: Thumper on July 15, 2008, 13:31:35
Post by: Hemmi on July 15, 2008, 22:26:28
Is this a Diesel mod only? Would this work for Petrol engine,
I'm going to replace my 2 fake exhaust's with 2 real ones, is there something more I should do?
Post by: Shambles on July 15, 2008, 22:39:33
Quote from: "Hemmi"
I'm going to replace my 2 fake exhaust's with 2 real ones, is there something more I should do?Yeah - get a bank loan
Post by: h4xk0 on July 16, 2008, 09:54:43
Post by: Dazzler on July 16, 2008, 11:11:50
I booked in the i30 for it's new exhaust with Midas on Monday (the guy seemed enthusiastic) He quoted me $345 but will match the $280 that Thumper paid...
The guy at Carline Mufflers was also a nice bloke but wasn't as confident about my project!
I'm excited...
Cheers,
Dazz
Post by: Martin on July 16, 2008, 11:23:41
Post by: Dazzler on July 16, 2008, 11:34:36
*I would rather "feel" the results rather than look at them...
Post by: Martin on July 16, 2008, 12:09:00
Quote from: "dazzling_darryl"
I'm not much into Dyno results* (I'll let someone else do that) I'd rather spend the $50 on food or something. From what Thumper and Lakes have said, I'll let my accelerator foot do the dyno testing :)
Martin
Post by: Dazzler on July 16, 2008, 12:17:16
Post by: ouri30 on July 16, 2008, 12:24:13
I conclude, from what the figures you have provided, that I shall not bother about the sports muffler. I would be better off getting a K&N High Flow Air Filter at less than half the price of a sports muffler. Even then, the power gain is not great (3%).
Bob
Post by: Dazzler on July 16, 2008, 12:30:13
Maybe it is the quality of the power delivery after the exhaust change that makes the difference (says Darryl trying to justify an unnecessary expense and keep his mates Thumper and lakes onside...
)I think I'll proceed anyway... I just won't expect miracles.
The guy at Midas has just put a similar exhaust on an old Nissan Skyline he bought cheap and reckons it made a huge difference to the "feel" under acceleration.
Post by: Thumper on July 16, 2008, 12:55:53
I would love to see the graphs from the stock run, then a run with the muffler removed. As you have shown, no increase in power output.
What I wish to know, is there any artificial power restriction going on here by the ECU? Does the graphs show any increase of the rate of power delivery lower down in the rev range? Is there any torque increase? Have you measured any exhaust back pressure at the outlet of the turbo?
As you are aware the standard muffler is very restrictive in design. (This is obvious)
I am full aware of psychometrics involved with noisier = faster, yet I know from my own testing and the videos I have shown (0-100km/h) is significantly faster than standard.
I also know that after fitting the exhaust, I was getting wheel spin in 2nd gear going up the Brown Mountain heading from Bega to Cooma (NSW) where the previous trips, no hope in hell of wheel spin when overtaking trucks on this hill. (Thinking it might have been just oil on the road, or dampness, each and every time I go down that way and come back, I roll on the throttle at the same spot, straight line, wheel spin is induced.)
I've also shown it has improved economy when on the highway. (I regularly get 1,300km per tank)
Yes, I am curious that the videos I have taken showing a difference, economy showing a difference, yet fail to show that according to a dyno, the exhaust does nothing. (Except sound louder)
In your honest opinion, why would this be so?
Post by: Lakes on July 16, 2008, 20:42:36
Quote from: "dazzling_darryl"
I'm not much into Dyno results* (I'll let someone else do that) I'd rather spend the $50 on food or something. From what Thumper and Lakes have said, I'll let my accelerator foot do the dyno testing
*I would rather "feel" the results rather than look at them...
Martin, did you do two timed dyno run's? like how many second it took for stock system to make power in seconds, then take off the exhast and do another timmed run, see difference in spool up time.
i have a few friends with Dyno's and one friend that makes his own engine dyno's. i have dynoed my bike about 130 times last count but got all that dyno time free. i got to dyno then go to the track. i found gaining power did not always show up on time ticket, but if i gained power faster, it showed up on the time ticket. i would go to a track and race a stock i30 against one with this 2 1/2" with sport muff from rear box back ( did you test that?) but i'm not interested. what i said about how different my car feels is true mate. i don't doubt you on what you found testing with the dyno. just what i can see driving to work is real m8, and i would back it up at the drag strip if you want to hop into a stock off showroom floor i30 and meet me for a skid at WSID. just showing i'm for real m8.
what dyno do you use for testing?
cheers good to have you here m8.
PS my friend that makes engine dyno's got an old Vane truck roller wheel driven dyno cheap from the local tech and is seting it up with a computer to try out making wheel driven dyno, he does not get much time as gets a lot of motors to build and dyno, also builders take motors to run in then dyno and tune, always complaining he has no time. but i'll check if he has done any more and give it a run with both stock and sport muff. but he told me turbo's don't like any restriction at all. unline conventional naturally aspirated.
Post by: Martin on July 16, 2008, 20:53:48
The dyno we use is a Mainline Dynolog twin retarder system that is the most advanced and sensitive chassis dyno that money can buy - and you need plenty of that as its about the same cost as 4 x i30 CRDi SLXs on-road! Repeatability is excellent, and the dyno can even log data (such as boost pressure, rpm, inlet temp etc) straight out of the i30 diagnostic port - which is where the boost curve we printed comes from. I will get some more dyno plots for you today, however the previous testing showed all the different exhaust combinations to draw the identical line one on top of the other, which with our considerable drag racing experience leads us to believe no change in ET or MPH on the strip
Post by: Dazzler on July 16, 2008, 23:46:56
Guess I'll just have to wait till Monday night and see if I'm happy with the result....
Regards,
Dazz
Post by: Hemmi on July 16, 2008, 23:48:28
Quote from: "Hemmi"
Hi guys, interesting thread,
Is this a Diesel mod only? Would this work for Petrol engine,
I'm going to replace my 2 fake exhaust's with 2 real ones, is there something more I should do?
Post by: Dazzler on July 16, 2008, 23:54:16
According to Martin the Mod does little or nothing for the diesel (may make a difference with a re-program of the ECU) Doesn't sound like it does any harm tho...
Guess what I'm say Hemmi is who knows? Maybe Martin or one of our other members has an opinion.
Regards,
Dazz
Post by: Thumper on July 17, 2008, 03:37:39
I commend you for what you are doing, I really do! (I'm following what you are doing with great interest) Please, keep up the good work. :twisted:
Post by: Martin on July 17, 2008, 10:48:30
I spent most of the day working on the i30 today, mainly in the coding of the PCM, and performed over 50 individual dynamometer tests in fully controlled conditions, using OBDII logging over the Hyundai CAN Bus as well as external analog logging to measure and collate all of the results :ugeek:
The only effective way to gain power or performance in an i30CRDi is to remap the PCM to reset these actual torque limits, and give the boost and fuel control system some higher airflow to aim at and then achieve. We trialled this very successfully today, with some great results to post later on over the next few days. In short having a totally reliable and economical 120kw and 400Nm rated i30CRDi is not that far away, and all with the stock exhaust in place
Post by: Lakes on July 17, 2008, 11:40:18
Quote from: "Martin"
Guys, pay $50 for a before and after dyno run with the exhaust.....the results MAY surprise you ;) and have had some experience, with things like this and we both noticed a gain. what i think is it makes the same power 7 Torque, BUT.... it makes it quicker ( shorter time 0 than before. i am borred to death looking at dyno graphs these day's, as they all just show rev per minute, i like the way you did the SAE correction as this is the only way to use a dyno as a tool to develop a motor ( thats if that's what you want to do. but RPM on a graph does not tell me much as i have seen guys rev and rev and rev, seemed like forever and the RPM graph just showed KW & TQ @ 1,000 or 2,000 and so on but if i had not have been watching the run i would not have known just how slow that was to rev out. so when i use the dyno to test i only like doing a timed dyno run, and i only look at what i made in 5seconds of wide open throtle, what shows up after 5 second's does not interest me. we might change the tune or the set up on my bikes motor before a race meet ( i hate doing that as i have to learn my set up all over again, makes it harder ) anyway i don't care what makes the most power or Torque, i use the tune that makes the most power & torque the fastest. and when i look at my time ticket i see the gain. if i just go for the tune that show's the biggest numbers and i don't worry about how long it took to make them, i do not always see a gain on my time ticket. in the end the black dyno is what counts.
so if i really wanted to test if what Thumper did then i just tried to duplicate, what i would do is just drive down the M2, then the M7 , then take the great western Hwy exit on a wednesday night, and enter a grudge meet, i would have tools and ramps and have the stock systrem on. then i would line up do a pass, then line up again do another pass, i would take great care to shift at same rev both pass's, i would also check the rev i was holding the motor at on the line and also opperate the clutch the same both pass's. then i would study my two time tickets to see how consistant i was. if satified i would put the rear up the ramps and remove the stock rear box bolt on the Thumper system. go out again and duplicate what i had done on ther first two pass's. then i would look at 60Ft time then 330ft time the 660ft time and half track speed, then 1,000ft time then quarter mile time and trap speed, i would also look at my reaction times as if the car launched harder this would show up in a quicker reaction time. if i had gains all the way and a faster half trap speed but the same quarter mile trap speed, this would tell me it made the power and Torque quicker but as the quarter mile speed was the same no more power. also it would be real world tersting as i would have speed and wind resistance.
also did you test the air fuel ratio again when you removed parts of the system?
i find it very hard to beleave that the diesel could even run @ 30 to 1 AFR.
John
Post by: Lakes on July 17, 2008, 12:03:31
Quote from: "Martin"
Thanks for the replies guys, always good to get some solid technical discussion going in a thread :P
The dyno we use is a Mainline Dynolog twin retarder system that is the most advanced and sensitive chassis dyno that money can buy - and you need plenty of that as its about the same cost as 4 x i30 CRDi SLXs on-road! Repeatability is excellent, and the dyno can even log data (such as boost pressure, rpm, inlet temp etc) straight out of the i30 diagnostic port - which is where the boost curve we printed comes from. I will get some more dyno plots for you today, however the previous testing showed all the different exhaust combinations to draw the identical line one on top of the other, which with our considerable drag racing experience leads us to believe no change in ET or MPH on the strip
Martin do you compeat nationally in drag racing?
The dyno sounds good, how does it control load? and what are you useing to check AFR? also what gear do you run the i30 on when you do the testing? and have you noticed any change in the power runing in different gears?
thanks. also at any stage do you ever plan to test the i30 at the strip?
john
Post by: Thumper on July 17, 2008, 13:08:31
Martin you've given us all food for thought. :D
Post by: Lakes on July 17, 2008, 21:01:05
does not seem to make a lot of difference with those tyre of Dyno's, as they have made big improvements to the software. but sometimes with a high torque motor if you put them in a taller gear you can sometimes see a power gain. but runing them in third gear will not do that.
like for instance if you had a car or bike on a dyno and ran them in third gear got a base power and torque reading, then you took it down the quarter mile and looked at just the trapp speed, then went back to the dyno, and put it in a taller gear, and the dyno showed a power increase, but no torque increase, then you did another pass at the track and looked at your trap speed would be the same as the first pass.
this is one reason why a chassis dyno is always a compromise the engine dyno you have the motor bolted dirrect to the dyno.
also the room the dyno is in is very important, like you need a sound proof room to opperate in.
i know a guy that has a engine dyno that is just used to test pistons as he makes and designs pistons, it's not used to test power or torque but used to destruct motors, the room is like a cylinder and bomb proof ( should see the dents inside it
cheers John
Post by: Martin on July 17, 2008, 21:56:36
Quote from: "Lakes"
Martin do you compeat nationally in drag racing?
The dyno sounds good, how does it control load? and what are you useing to check AFR? also what gear do you run the i30 on when you do the testing? and have you noticed any change in the power runing in different gears?
thanks. also at any stage do you ever plan to test the i30 at the strip?
john
Lakes,
We compete at the strip maybe 3 - 4 times a year now (transport to Heathcote/Calder VIC) since our local strip AIR shut down. Annually we organise and host a national drag racing tournament - http://www.ls1dragnationals.com.au (http://www.ls1dragnationals.com.au). Our VX SS twin turbo sedan is the fastest four speed auto in Australia with 9.9 @ 145mph. Our Skyline GTR is the quickest radial tyred Skyline outside of Japan with 8.8 @ 163mph :geek:
There should be no problems coaxing an i30CRDi to a 14 second pass down the strip when modified correctly
Post by: Thumper on July 18, 2008, 04:30:04
Quote from: "Martin"
however for ease of testing I have used fourth gear on the i30
Umm, may I ask if the i30 you have is an auto?
Reason why I ask is, according to your dyno results shown here (http://www.ls1turbo.com.au/pics/i302.jpg) the i30 CRDi you are using, revving to 4180rpm for only 135km/h in 4th gear.
Where on the video I made here (http://dragon-reality.com/Clip1.wmv) shows 150km/h at 4180rpm in 4th gear.
3rd gear is only 110km at 4180rpm.
How long have you had the i30?
Just wondering if there has been a change in gear ratios between the early i30 diesels and the newer i30 diesels.
Reason why I am asking is, what you have shown as dyno proof and what I have shown as video proof, do not collaborate with each other. (As you can clearly see by the video, I take it up to 4th gear.)
Not looking for an argument, just trying to clear the air here so we can all work on the same level playing field.
Post by: ouri30 on July 18, 2008, 05:23:19
I have often wondered about the speeds and times in the videos you put up for us. You seemed to get better times than the official Hyundai i30 times for acceleration. I never said anything at the time, but thought to myself that they may well be whole or partly due to the error in the speedometer readings. I know that at 100kph on the speedo, my GPS is reading 93kph. That's a 7.5% over error. So, 110kph on the speedo would be 102kph.
The dyno would, I assume, give accurate measurements. Could this account for the error you are seeing? I'll be interested to see what Martin's response to your query is.
I am going to be really interested to compare the speedo to the GPS to the speed readout I get from OBD2 port via the Scanguage II (when it arrives).
Bob
Post by: Thumper on July 18, 2008, 08:28:01
I know mine is 7km/h out at 100km/h (93km/h actual, 100km/h shown on speedo)
Yet I'm sure it wouldn't be 15km/h out at 120km/h.........Or could it? :lol:
Post by: Lakes on July 18, 2008, 10:47:30
Quote from: "Martin"
Quote from: "Lakes"Martin do you compeat nationally in drag racing?
The dyno sounds good, how does it control load? and what are you useing to check AFR? also what gear do you run the i30 on when you do the testing? and have you noticed any change in the power runing in different gears?
thanks. also at any stage do you ever plan to test the i30 at the strip?
john
Lakes,
We compete at the strip maybe 3 - 4 times a year now (transport to Heathcote/Calder VIC) since our local strip AIR shut down. Annually we organise and host a national drag racing tournament - http://www.ls1dragnationals.com.au (http://www.ls1dragnationals.com.au). Our VX SS twin turbo sedan is the fastest four speed auto in Australia with 9.9 @ 145mph. Our Skyline GTR is the quickest radial tyred Skyline outside of Japan with 8.8 @ 163mph :geek:
There should be no problems coaxing an i30CRDi to a 14 second pass down the strip when modified correctly
Martin, your dyno sounds really good! the load control sounds good too, i know how important that is for analizing and tuning, that would be why you get acurate power readings in any gear.
my friend with the engine dyno has one of those autronic air fuel ratio analizers, he also has a different system and it has a sensor for each cylinder and they go in each pipe near the port for fast readings , but need to put holes in the pipes. mostly does race motors.
well done on the fastest 4 speed auto in australia. i love that old track Heathcote! have you ever seen those V8 tractors they race on the dirt drag strip? some had two V8's. that track reminds me of the old Castlereagh Drags we had on outskirts of Sydney years ago. was a shame AIR closed too. do you know if they are still going to build a new track in victoria like they were talking about doing last year? I also like Willowbank, great atmosphere up there.
that would be moving if you get an i30 to run 14's! do you think the stock 5 speed will be harder to shift quick with the extra power and Tq?
Cheers John
Post by: Lakes on July 18, 2008, 10:56:51
Quote from: "ouri30"
Thumper,
I have often wondered about the speeds and times in the videos you put up for us. You seemed to get better times than the official Hyundai i30 times for acceleration. I never said anything at the time, but thought to myself that they may well be whole or partly due to the error in the speedometer readings. I know that at 100kph on the speedo, my GPS is reading 93kph. That's a 7.5% over error. So, 110kph on the speedo would be 102kph.
The dyno would, I assume, give accurate measurements. Could this account for the error you are seeing? I'll be interested to see what Martin's response to your query is.
I am going to be really interested to compare the speedo to the GPS to the speed readout I get from OBD2 port via the Scanguage II (when it arrives).
Bob
Hey Bob are you getting that scan gauge? if so i can't wait to see how it works for you and how easy or hard you find mounting it somewhere.
Post by: ouri30 on July 19, 2008, 05:20:18
Quote
Hey Bob are you getting that scan gauge? if so i can't wait to see how it works for you and how easy or hard you find mounting it somewhere.
Yep Lakes, it should arrive next week. Have had a think about mounting. It may be possible to mount it on top of the steering column or if that is too restrictive and or hides the intrument hub, then on top of the dash. The velcro should adhere to the dash mat.
Can't wait to see what options will work with the i30 obd2 port.
Bob
Post by: Dazzler on July 20, 2008, 13:39:14
Sure hope I notice a difference (and she's not too noisy) or I'll be in more trouble than i30manUK gets into... Scary stuff.
What do Dynos know anyway....
Post by: Lakes on July 20, 2008, 20:08:57
what i noticed is when i first drove off the car felt quicker off the mark, then i noticed it is a lot smoother reving specially on the motorways.
yesturday i was driving at 2,400rev and it seemed to be very responsive and wanted to just go. i have got 830k since i filled the tank two weeks back and the fuel gauge is only just between half and a quarter mark this is all sydney driving too with about 100k on the motorway 300k b4 the change the rest in traffic. will fill up thursday or friday then friday after work i'll duplicate the last trip where i drove in heavy traffic for about 100k to Katoomba with lots of hills and corners like in tassie was about 800+ k round trip with rev's up around 2,400 2,500 got 4.9L / 100k worked it out after filling to the very brim on my return. will do the same.
no complaints about noise here m8, have only had one friend that could tell, but he has a good ear and races. said it made a resognator sound when you rev it not going easy. a resognator spins the exhast, they make a sound like an old VW beatle :D
cheers
John
Post by: Thumper on July 20, 2008, 22:45:01
More like a WRX with a sports exhaust.
Post by: Dazzler on July 21, 2008, 10:42:20
It's all good, A bit louder then before but only slightly (sounds like a diesel with a sports exhaust - surprise, surprise) more like a WRX than a VW.. thankfully. :D
Will get the wife to take her for a spin and get her opinion over the next few days as she is pretty perceptive.. :(
I reset her litres per 100km reading then took her for a 20km spin with some good revving, then cruised home and she's showing 4.7 (will be interesting to drive normally and monitor her over the next few days)
Will keep you posted
Post by: Lakes on July 21, 2008, 11:21:52
Quote from: "Thumper"
Mine doesn't sound anything like a VW.......
More like a WRX with a sports exhaust. :D and know they had an aircooled resognator sound, the WRX is same layout but water cooled and has a hair dryer :D i like how it works, and will be very happy if i see an economy gain.
cheers John
Post by: Lakes on July 21, 2008, 11:25:56
Quote from: "dazzling_darryl"
Hi Guys,
It's all good, A bit louder then before but only slightly (sounds like a diesel with a sports exhaust - surprise, surprise) more like a WRX than a VW.. thankfully. :D
Will get the wife to take her for a spin and get her opinion over the next few days as she is pretty perceptive.. :(
I reset her litres per 100km reading then took her for a 20km spin with some good revving, then cruised home and she's showing 4.7 (will be interesting to drive normally and monitor her over the next few days)
Will keep you posted
Sounds great Dazz especially the improvement in economy hope that lasts, look forward to the wife's view of it.
John
Post by: Thumper on July 22, 2008, 12:35:13
I am sitting on 4.9lt/100km (Thought I had a bad batch of fuel since I can not get it any better, even with the cover in place)
Cold weather is hurting my economy. :lol:
Post by: Dazzler on July 22, 2008, 12:43:53
Post by: Thumper on July 22, 2008, 12:50:04
Sorry.
Post by: Lakes on July 23, 2008, 10:42:35
i just made up the sound my pipe makes from what my friend told me, he said it makes a resonator sound, i said that is reasonable to beleive as the rear box is straight through and there is a resonator in front, from what i know of normal resonators is they spin the exhaust. i think it would be reasonable to beleive the three cars would sound the same, what do you think?
By the way i filled up with Caltex Vortex Premium Diesel got 47 Liters in to the top has 930k all Sydney driving with 300k of that with stock system, also my motor seems to like the Vortex Fuel. will do an economy test on my pipe this weekend.
do you know what i think would be fun? i think if we had a compitition where we get together for a weekend and see who can get the best fuel economy on the trip. would be interesting 4 sure! we could give a trophy to the winner.
we could even have a day were we could go to say Wakefield Park and see who can do the best lap time. or eastern creek. or Bakersfield.
cheers
Post by: Dazzler on July 23, 2008, 11:00:52
Health and other issues permitting I would hope to get our i30 up to the "North Island" some time in 2009.. Will track a few of you down then hopefully and hope you'll do the same if you get down south.
Post by: awj2005 on August 08, 2008, 15:46:47
ive been reading this for a while. ive spoken to some people about the sports muffler and they've told me they've had trouble with the hyundai's before. just want to know what type of muffler you have on it? like lukey, walker, jbl etc etc as i wouldnt mind one for my car and i need some more info so i can tell him what to get. o for me to get a cannon muffler onto my car it'll set me back $500. your one sounds way cheaper.
cheers
ash
Post by: Lakes on August 09, 2008, 00:53:51
only reason i did it was thumper was quoting good fuel economy gains and was cheap and easy also thought as was turbo and they don't normally like restriction at all, also the turbo makes this quiet.
if you do it with a petrol it will be a lot louder. and i most cases with petrol a good set of extractors would give better results even with stock system. the petrol don't see much gain with just a muffler change but they do make more noise. sometimes you can see an economy gain with petrol as long as you drive easy, if you drive hard won't see a gain.
$500 is a bit high. i don't know what brand i have in muffler, it's straight through with an offset. but the petrol exhast might be different i have not looked.
cheers mate
Post by: EymaTeapot on August 11, 2008, 01:15:05
I am still considering the flow through exhaust. Now some of you have had the system fitted for a while. what is the general concensus? Do we all agree that there is a noticable fuel economy improvement? Is it worth the expence?
Post by: Dazzler on August 11, 2008, 10:56:15
To be honest although mine looks almost Identical to Thumpers (and was fashioned on his by Midas) I have not noticed any appreciable difference in performance or economy... If you're interested you could have mine for half what it cost.. ($140) + freight from Devonport to Canberra...It does sound good
Regards,
Dazz
Post by: Lakes on August 13, 2008, 08:36:15
Post by: Thumper on August 13, 2008, 16:08:09
Quote from: "EymaTeapot"
Hi Lakes, Dazz, Thumper.
I am still considering the flow through exhaust. Now some of you have had the system fitted for a while. what is the general concensus? Do we all agree that there is a noticable fuel economy improvement? Is it worth the expence?
Well, comparing my economy to others on here, I am getting better mileage than the rest of you. :D
Post by: Lakes on August 13, 2008, 20:54:48
i'll be testing for next three weeks as will be doing a few more k's out west, i have the scanGauge now can see boost psi goes up high sometimes seen as high as 30psi and as low as 14.6psi, has a lot of usefull gauges that i can pick up and use through it, my friend said its nothing new they have been around a while, he said the best ones you can adjust the tune, probably what you would like.
also Thumper my mate has a large 8 vacume motors flow bench if you want we could put your pipe on it and my pipe on it and see if there is a difference in flow.
Post by: Thumper on August 13, 2008, 23:27:03
I've purchased the Scanguage to see if my assumptions on boost spikes is correct, without resorting to hooking anything else inline (Mechanically) on the engine.
Besides, I'm curious to see why in an email from Hyundai Australia, they said the i30 diesel does not have a temp sensor on the engine for inlet air, thus inlet air temp has no bearing on economy. (Except to say that colder air is more dense, thus I will attain better economy when it's colder) This is after I have shown them that cold weather does in fact cause worse economy when on the highway. :D
(These 16 hour days, every day, are killing me. *Sighs*)
Post by: Lakes on August 14, 2008, 11:24:16
i'll see my mate on way home this weekend see if he has time to flow, sometimes its too much trouble mounting things to flow, i think his bench can flow a whole V8 motor intake and exhaust, i've watched him flow test heads and other thing was interesting .
if you e mail Hyundai again could you ask if LPG with diesel is ok. i like the idea as would also be better for enviroment i know a few that run LPG in diesel's that are common rail they inject LPG in with diesel helps atomize and gets a more compleat burn less smoke more economy more power only need a small LPG tank
Post by: Lakes on August 14, 2008, 11:27:54
Post by: Lakes on September 16, 2008, 21:15:41
so far not one problem. except the ScanGauge11, also o e mailed the ScanGauge supplier Woodgers@ Hornsby but they have not replied so seems like no garantee with those.
Post by: Lakes on October 08, 2008, 19:22:28
Dyno's are a good tool, but they don't always tell the true story. like last week my friend dynoed my bike so i could jet the carb to run with the new race fuel i'm useing, the fuel oxigenates, it also has a higher motor octain number, but my bike has very high compression so can use it. well we got less power than with the race gas i was useing b4, this is on the dyno. i go to the track and i do faster 1/4mile trap speed and faster 1/8 mile speed and i do a quick ET even though my sixty foot time was soft ( get a quicker sixty foot and your speeds go up too)
so dyno's are ok but you can't beat the real thing
just thought i'd let you know, oh and NO i'm not selling my sport Muff.
Cheers
Post by: bez10y on October 08, 2008, 21:22:33
Quote from: "Lakes"
except the ScanGauge11, also o e mailed the ScanGauge supplier Woodgers@ Hornsby but they have not replied so seems like no garantee with those.Heya Lakes, I went to Wooders to buy mine but they didn't have any in stock and never called back so I ended up getting one from these guys http://www.ample-outdoors.com.au/ who seem to be the Australian distributors for them. Maybe send them an email as they may be able to help you out.
Post by: Lakes on October 09, 2008, 07:27:44
cheers
Post by: Lakes on October 15, 2008, 19:02:06
Quote from: "bez10y"
Quote from: "Lakes"except the ScanGauge11, also o e mailed the ScanGauge supplier Woodgers@ Hornsby but they have not replied so seems like no garantee with those.Heya Lakes, I went to Wooders to buy mine but they didn't have any in stock and never called back so I ended up getting one from these guys http://www.ample-outdoors.com.au/ who seem to be the Australian distributors for them. Maybe send them an email as they may be able to help you out.
Hi BEZ10y, i e mailed those guy's and they said see woodgers, then got an e mail from woodgers to come up hornsby and they will give me a new one for mine, so will go up next week.
cheers and thanks, latter i was talking to a guy i know and he said he knows a few people that have got them from Ample-Outdoors .
cheers
Post by: bez10y on October 15, 2008, 23:11:01
Quote from: "Lakes"
Hi BEZ10y, i e mailed those guy's and they said see woodgers, then got an e mail from woodgers to come up hornsby and they will give me a new one for mine, so will go up next week.Heya Lakes, glad it's all getting sorted out. Maybe Ample gave Woodgers a boot in the bum
cheers and thanks, latter i was talking to a guy i know and he said he knows a few people that have got them from Ample-Outdoors .
cheers
I'm pretty pleased with mine, though I can't seem to fix the "----" for the LHK issue even though I've set the TPS up as they describe in the booklet.
Post by: Lakes on October 16, 2008, 19:09:56
Quote from: "bez10y"
Quote from: "Lakes"Hi BEZ10y, i e mailed those guy's and they said see woodgers, then got an e mail from woodgers to come up hornsby and they will give me a new one for mine, so will go up next week.Heya Lakes, glad it's all getting sorted out. Maybe Ample gave Woodgers a boot in the bum
cheers and thanks, latter i was talking to a guy i know and he said he knows a few people that have got them from Ample-Outdoors .
cheers
I'm pretty pleased with mine, though I can't seem to fix the "----" for the LHK issue even though I've set the TPS up as they describe in the booklet.
Hey Bez10y, i had the LHK working fine, but the diesel does not have TPS as no throtle body with a diesel, i think to get your LHK working right you need to set the % i think Bob said -32% worked and i set mine at that and it seemed fine and about right. just remember when you fill up don't tell it how much just set percentage @ -32% if you have been corecting what the gauge tell's you as it's estimate of what you added in fuel, your correction % could be out a long way and this will efect your LHK. very hard to explain but you will see what i mean if you keep at it, took me a few days.
Good luck and cheers
Post by: bez10y on October 16, 2008, 21:10:05
Quote from: "Lakes"
Hey Bez10y, i had the LHK working fine, but the diesel does not have TPS as no throtle body with a diesel, i think to get your LHK working right you need to set the % i think Bob said -32% worked and i set mine at that and it seemed fine and about right. just remember when you fill up don't tell it how much just set percentage @ -32% if you have been corecting what the gauge tell's you as it's estimate of what you added in fuel, your correction % could be out a long way and this will efect your LHK. very hard to explain but you will see what i mean if you keep at it, took me a few days.Thanks Lakes, I'll find Bob's thread and check out what he did. I know he played with it for a bit. Cheers for the reminder
Good luck and cheers
Post by: Thumper on October 17, 2008, 02:18:25
Also does not like to rev above 3,000rpm
Oh well.
Post by: Waja on October 17, 2008, 08:49:17
wow..sounds like thumper got a exhaust that makes his car fly economically
Post by: teamgeorge on October 20, 2008, 05:04:30
awesome read, i was thinking of a few performance mods while keeping the economy pretty good.
i don't get my car till 10/11/08 and im hanging for it everyday!
would it be worth having an in car boost controller? or is it quite accessible under the hood?
Post by: nizzkid on October 21, 2008, 03:17:01
Quote
would it be worth having an in car boost controller? or is it quite accessible under the hood?From reading one of Thumpers posts these turbos regulate boost via vacume pressure, not boost pressure?
(feel free to correct me if i imagined it!)
I dont know of any boost controlers that work on this pricible?
Post by: teamgeorge on October 21, 2008, 11:12:01
Quote from: "Thumper"
Had the entire rear section of the exhaust replaced with a free flowing turbo muffler (Straight through) and a 2.5 inch pipe to the back, exiting the exact same location and angle as the factory system. (IE: Looks stock)
when you say 2.5" is that all the way from the cat? can you comment with your pictures in a PM to me exactly what you've done as i want to show it to my exhaust mechanic and get a quote off him for the same job if that's ok :mrgreen:
Post by: Thumper on October 21, 2008, 12:27:42
It's off the vehicle at the moment, since I am testing to see if the exhaust actually made any difference to economy. (It does)
No problems with anyone copying it.
Post by: teamgeorge on October 22, 2008, 10:25:20
Post by: Thumper on November 22, 2008, 04:28:20
Just doing some testing at the moment.
2.5inch mandrel bent exhaust, no mufflers. (From the cat back)
Off boost, subtle growl. (As loud as a XR6 Turbo, factory stock)
On boost, noticeable growl. (Too loud for normal road use. Will get noticed)
On boost with torque boosting fuel maps applied, thumps like a WRX! (Rally car loudness)
So far, with traction issues and playing around with the fuel maps, I think I've found a nice compromise. 4.8lt/100km is the WORST I can get out of the little beast.
3.2lt/100km I have seen with a 200km long economy run.
Now, to tune the exhaust for more, legal, levels. 8)
Post by: lindlake on March 17, 2009, 12:22:56
Hi again Thumper the scanGauge has an intake air temp so must be reading from stock factory sensor.i had d/gas put on my 05 hilux last year it blew up at xmas time big hole in number 3 piston the lpg cause the piston to get to hot and crack i am trying to get my engine fixed by d/gas aus so be careful
i'll see my mate on way home this weekend see if he has time to flow, sometimes its too much trouble mounting things to flow, i think his bench can flow a whole V8 motor intake and exhaust, i've watched him flow test heads and other thing was interesting .
if you e mail Hyundai again could you ask if LPG with diesel is ok. i like the idea as would also be better for enviroment i know a few that run LPG in diesel's that are common rail they inject LPG in with diesel helps atomize and gets a more compleat burn less smoke more economy more power only need a small LPG tank
Post by: Lakes on March 18, 2009, 07:17:01
a guy i know has it on a MB Sprinter 2.2 CRTD no trouble, before this back in the 80's i meet a trucker that had LPG & Diesel on a big Kenworth he was testing it for a company told me was only three like it in the world at the time, said he was only allowed to turn on LPG for a short time every so often on the trip from SYD to MELB and Melb TO sYD, said it was a lot faster up hill's with LPG on.
Post by: lindlake on March 18, 2009, 12:05:00
thank's for that lindlake, could not ever see me having it fitted to the i30 ( have to find room for a gas tank) did the gas fitter warrant his work?no warrant i am trying insurance i found out after my engine blew up that i should have a turbo temp gauge to keep a eye on the pistons temp
a guy i know has it on a MB Sprinter 2.2 CRTD no trouble, before this back in the 80's i meet a trucker that had LPG & Diesel on a big Kenworth he was testing it for a company told me was only three like it in the world at the time, said he was only allowed to turn on LPG for a short time every so often on the trip from SYD to MELB and Melb TO sYD, said it was a lot faster up hill's with LPG on.
Post by: Lakes on March 18, 2009, 18:29:24
thanks again for telling me, and good luck.
Post by: teamgeorge on April 29, 2009, 04:41:06
oh im back :P
i'm taking your picture to some exhaust specialists to copy it... how much you pay for it? and fitted? and i remember you said you can fit your stock exhaust back on without hassel, that still the case?
Post by: Waja on April 29, 2009, 05:46:58
firsty, welcome back =D
then...if i remem correctly, thumper had sold his i30 and hasn't visited this forum in...yonks! so if anything, i think the answers you are looking for are on some of his older posts..i think he paid $280 or so and it was exchangeable
some other people have the changed exhaust as well, so hope they can help!
Post by: teamgeorge on April 29, 2009, 07:42:46
and i think i asked the cost 6 months ago cos $280 sounds very familiar. :lol:
i had my windows tinted 2 days ago and im keen on an exhaust and tuner box put in... i will need to make a pics topic in the other forum tonight if i remember. :)
Post by: Dazzler on April 29, 2009, 11:06:13
Yes, I got an exhaust crafted a bit like Thumpers and got Midas to match his cost of $280 .. It is not difficult for them to match the original exhaust with thicker pipe and straight through muffler.. and the same mountings...
Glad to hear all is good and you've hit the 5000km without issues.. :D
Just be warned apart from a bit more sporty exhaust note the performance difference for me was marginal (and no improvement in economy)
Post by: Lakes on April 29, 2009, 20:45:49
cheers
Post by: Dazzler on April 29, 2009, 22:17:26
Hey George, like Dazz i had similar ( same diamiter pipe Straight through low restriction muff. a friend of mine that does exhasts made it. i took it off. i thought it went better with it. my friend has it at his workshop, he asked me last service if i wanted it back on i said not yet as i was short of time just wanted the service, takes about 15 mins to change over. if you lived close you could try it.
cheers
He's in central Vic .. He could have mine cheap if freight was cheaper...
Post by: teamgeorge on April 30, 2009, 03:46:36
Post by: Dazzler on April 30, 2009, 10:04:35
performance im not too fussed about i just want it to sound like a tractor.
You might be disappointed then.. it doesn't sound like a tractor (thankfully) Maybe a bit like a WRX when under full throttle... :cool:
Post by: Lakes on April 30, 2009, 11:06:11
Post by: trsc27 on August 06, 2009, 08:00:49
That in combination with the DPchip it should make a nice difference to the drive up the mountain on saturday!
Post by: Waja on August 06, 2009, 08:59:07
Thumper seemed to have tested without the resonator and muffler, but not just without the resonator. (I'm kinda stabbing in the dark and I don't know if the resonator make much difference to the loudness)
So you would say that it was just the turbo kicking in a little earlier after this upgrade?
Also the DPchip looks pretty interesting for an Australian alternative to the ASA Autotechnik tuning box. Possible to ask how much you got it for? They don't seem to quote prices on the site...
DPchip
85kw -> 102kw and 255nm -> 295nm
ASA Eco
85kw ->100kw and 255nm -> 301nm
Thanks! and sorry for all the q's :-[
Post by: trsc27 on August 06, 2009, 13:21:07
Its not going to gain you much power its just going to kick in a bit sooner
As for the DPchip it cost me $1295 fitted, not cheap but i dont mind spending it for their 5 year guarantee if it blows up your engine
Post by: buddy on November 21, 2009, 11:59:02
I know it was a long time ago, but do you still have that custom exhaust?
Pat
New Norfolk.
Post by: Dazzler on November 21, 2009, 22:14:24
Post by: Dazzler on November 24, 2009, 08:47:10
Post by: G14Classified101 on December 09, 2009, 11:46:53
Fast fours or hot fours did a test on it and could only get one extra kw and nm torque out of the engine. They tried various exhaust configs, intakes, everything bolt on possible. Until they found out that the cpu will not let it breach 86/256. It took their techs about 20 mins to hack the hyundai system and remove the restriction where they were able to get it to about 91odd kw and 280nm torque.
Post by: Dazzler on December 09, 2009, 20:15:52
Post by: G14Classified101 on December 10, 2009, 08:41:01
Yeah, I was enjoying the newfound 'extra' torque that comes from a freer flowing exhaust and turbos! :D
Will see what I can do for a video.
When I had the exhaust made, I made sure that the old one can easily be bolted back on. (Nothing on the factory exhaust was cut) 10min job, tops, to change back to the stock exhaust.
EDIT: Modder of the month, LOVE IT! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" />
Yeah dazz i know you didnt but thumper did... :wink:
Post by: Dazzler on December 10, 2009, 10:46:01
Yeah dazz i know you didnt but thumper did... :wink:
I think Thumper's performance gain was actually a combination of things (it was almost like he had a blueprinted motor some of the results he was getting)
Post by: Lakes on December 11, 2009, 19:12:08
i,m happy with how my CRDi runs stock as i'm useing it for economy and the distance i can travel on one tank. so i'll leave it as it came.
Post by: G14Classified101 on December 12, 2009, 05:15:50
however the only realy gain they would get would be as lakes said increase spool up, however you guys would be at full boost before like 1800 rpm yeah? dont need much quicker than that!
Post by: Lakes on December 13, 2009, 06:36:38
Oh okay didnt realise he had other mods too.
however the only realy gain they would get would be as lakes said increase spool up, however you guys would be at full boost before like 1800 rpm yeah? dont need much quicker than that!
hi m8, love talking about tuning and so on, but i've always done it to use at a race track.
i got the chance to use a friends dyno a lot with my bike, then go to the lacal track and test, i found if i just tuned for max power not timing how quick it made the power & torque, i might not see an improvement in times but could see a gain in trap speed after a quarter mile. then i started to test the effect timing each full throtle run on the dyno, i would have a load on the dyno wheel the dyno i used has a adjustable magnetic load. i would put it in top gear bring rev up to a rev that would not damage the motor giving it wide open throtle with a load on. then i would use the tune that made the most HP & Torque the quickest, i was only keeping throtle wide open for 5 seconds or less, then went to the track and tested and would see a gain like a quicker time and faster speed. but thats at a drag strip, land speed trials i might do it differently. i'm no expert just hands on self taught.
i felt there was a gain, but i must admit, i have seen other people with different cars or truck or bikes do things to them and get very excited about how they go, then they go put it on a dyno and they are a broken man, no gain, also they can be broken going to the track and not doing a very quick time. so i could have been mistaken . now its been so long since i had it on i've forgot, maybe when Dazz removed his we might know.
cheers
Post by: penak on April 09, 2010, 08:14:49
In a petrol engine you can do a lot by removing restrictions from the induction and exhaust sides of the system. But more importantly, if you can understand the hairy and growling mathematics behind acoustic resonators, you can achieve effects closing to supercharging with variable length intake manifolds and carefully calculated exhaust manifolds.
But most of that just don't apply to diesels that are even in principle VERY different from otto-cycle engines.
In otto-cycle engine (ie. petrol engine) you try to keep the fuel/air mixture at constant optimized percentage through the whole power range. The power adjustment in otto-cycle engine happens by adjusting the amount of the fuel/air mixture delivered to the engine. Supercharging increases power up to the point where the mixture starts to ignite and detonate prematurely by the compression alone, where you get the "pinging" and power starts to drop. Contrary to a common belief, normally the fuel/air mixture does not detonate in a petrol engine, it burns in a controlled manner, and same is true for a diesel too.
In a diesel-cycle engine the throttle flap is not even needed for controlling the engine. The power adjustment is done by adjusting the amount of fuel injected to the cylinder for each work cycle, and the power increases up to the point where the burning of fuel has used all the oxygen from the induction air. By supercharging the amount of air in cylinder can be increased, and unlike otto engines, pinging is not the limit, as you WANT compression ignition,limit is the mechanical sturdiness of the engine to take the high pressures, which however never are like the huge explosion pressure spikes you will see in a pinging otto engine.
In a turbo diesel, what you do to the exhaust system AFTER the turbo has very little if any effect on the engine power or turbo spool up time if we keep some sensible values. Contrary to a common belief, the turbo does not run much on the pressure differential between it's intake and exhaust, but on the energy contained in the temperature of the exhaust gas.
Even putting a well dimensioned megaphone just on the exhaust of the turbo would not change the spool up or power of the turbine much.
Face it, these sport exhausts only give sportier (and slightly louder) exhaust note. Any other effects are firmly on the placebo department. The famous "seat of the pants" is so easily deceived...
Post by: eyecon on April 09, 2010, 12:30:29
Post by: IMCRZY on April 09, 2010, 16:07:05
Post by: Dazzler on April 09, 2010, 22:47:16
Post by: andrejs on April 12, 2010, 08:45:17
only changing your exhaust wont help much if at all...
change intake, change intercooler, change turbo :) and change exhaust... that will do the trick
Post by: stuart b on November 07, 2010, 23:03:21
cheers
Post by: Dazzler on November 08, 2010, 00:04:54
HI I also live in ACT can you tell me were you got mods done
cheers
Hi Stuart (A big welcome to the club if I haven't done it previously)
Just go to midas or your other local exhaust fabricator and ask themto duplicate you existing cat back exhaust section with a straight through sports exhaust say 2' or larger.. will improve the exhaust note without making it too noisy....(don't expect any noticeable increase in performance) :razz:
Post by: rustynutz on November 08, 2010, 00:47:24
It's amazing what you'll do when you haven't got the dollars for original mufflers... :lol:
I reckon I might even give a hotdog muffler a try on my i30 when it eventually rots out....
Post by: agentr31 on November 08, 2010, 11:36:57
on the diesel you can run no muffler... its not noisy at all, i deleted mine a few weeks after getting it, and its very quiet still! (well for what im used to)
Post by: eyecon on November 08, 2010, 11:57:04