Tha Original i30 Owners Club
GENERAL STUFF => GENERAL DISCUSSIONS => Random Chit Chat => Topic started by: AlanHo on February 05, 2012, 20:51:22
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There used to be a series of jokes about Skoda cars. One than comes to mind because of the present spell of snowy and icy weather is :-
Why does a Skoda have a heated rear window
To keep your hands warm when you push it
I was just watching the BBC news and they were showing scenes of road chaos caused by the wintry weather - every car they filmed being pushed was a BMW. I don't know if it was deliberate or just an unfortunate coincidence.
It is true however, that BMW's are more susceptible to traction problems in slippery conditions, because they are rear wheel drive and the weight of the car is biased to the front where the engine is.
I had to go out visiting today - and my i30 was great on the slippery road. Another reason to prefer a Hyundai rather than a BMW. I don't suppose the argument applies in Aussie land though.
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You are right about most parts of OZ :goodjob2: :goodjob:
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Like the Skoda joke . . .
Re the BMW's. It's generally agreed that a 50:50 weight distribution is the best for optimum handling. BMW's are all pretty close to this.
They also have a pretty clever ESC on BMW's that may not handle the vagaries of snowy roads.
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I haven't had any trouble with traction in the snow with the i30 so far.. :happydance:
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Miner's been all over the place today, mostly sideways
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(http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae229/asathorny/snow.jpg)
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(http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae229/asathorny/snow.jpg)
Absolutely loved watching the last of series 2 last night......
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I couldnt get out of my street on Sunday, backwards or forwards the car wouldnt go no matter what I did....and I have 40 years driving experience...
My neighbours wife has a Vauxhall Astra... she is an occasional driver (lad to school... shopping etc) & she backed off the drive & drove straight up our street as if there was now snow at all...
May be tyres I guess, but it was very embarassing whatever...
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When you say "couldn't get out of the street" was it due to the wheels spinning or just depth of snow?
Some have suggested turning off the ESP.
No snow this year yet but last year with all the snow I had no problem with traction. In fact other cars were stuck and I just breezed past them....
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:whsaid: :Drive: :Drive:
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Just another thought:
Is your petrol and the other car diesel?
I ask because of the weight factor on the drive wheels as diesels tend to have heavier engines...
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When you say "couldn't get out of the street" was it due to the wheels spinning or just depth of snow?
Some have suggested turning off the ESP.
No snow this year yet but last year with all the snow I had no problem with traction. In fact other cars were stuck and I just breezed past them....
Both cars are petrol, the Astra is a 1.4.
I had chronic wheel spin... no matter how gentle I was.
My Fiat diesel would romp up the same incline in reverse but had tons of torque & a great heavy lump of iron under the bonnet.
There was only 2 inches of snow max.
I'm gonna see what tyres are on the Astra & see what I can get some for that will fit the Hy...
Next time I'll try the ESP trick, thanks for that. :-)
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Perhaps true, but my petrol with 18" wheels didnt stick once in the feet of snow we had last year and none of the roads in my estate were ploughed................ever :eek:
Ffoxy, I would get your ESP checked out mate, was the yellow light on the dash flashing while you were spinning like crazy, cos it should have been.
ESP prevents the spinning, you actually feel the revs bogging down and the wheels biting in snow, the fact that yours was spinning suggests to me that it aint working :Shocked: :Shocked:
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Well, I have had the problems with getting out of snow twice already and one of them was with i30.
Actually there was no chance to get out of snow myself in the last case as my car sat with its belly on snow, so my wheels were spinning helplessly. I tried to use a trick I had resorted to when I stuck in snow in my Getz - owning the car with AT I used to set the selector lever to either D or R and having left the cabin I used to get to rear or front and shove the car with all my strength where the most important part is to be able to get back into the cabin in order to halt the car before it hits something, but that trick didn't work. Fortunately a father of my group's mate was passing by, spotted me and helped me.
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I had chronic wheel spin... no matter how gentle I was.
Old indian trick was to use either 2nd or 3rd gear not 1st when starting on slippy surfaces...
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Yes Bumpkin... the light was flashing & I could feel it trying to bog... I knew what was happeneing but the tyres just couldnt get traction. They are Summer rubber after all... & budget rated too... so I shouldnt be surprised...
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I had chronic wheel spin... no matter how gentle I was.
Old indian trick was to use either 2nd or 3rd gear not 1st when starting on slippy surfaces...
Yup... tried that too... well second anyway...
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I had chronic wheel spin... no matter how gentle I was.
Old indian trick was to use either 2nd or 3rd gear not 1st when starting on slippy surfaces...
Yup... tried that too... well second anyway...
What depth on tread?
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4 - 5 mm plenty depth & no dodgy patches... evenly worn, tyres are about 12 months old. I'll see what make asap.
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4 - 5 mm plenty depth & no dodgy patches... evenly worn, tyres are about 12 months old. I'll see what make asap.
Maybe just a silly question, but are we talking about summer or winter tyres? If we are talking about summer tyres (and by chance Hankook stock tires), then it's normal for that to happen.
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I did wonder about getting some Nokian WR G2 tyres last year, they are winter tyres but can be used all year round. Though the prices seemed to have shot up since 2010. No snow here anyway.
The i30 behaved a lot better in the snow than my Renault Laguna used to, I could actually go up hills in it !
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I have never in 24 years of driving in snow and ice had the urge to resort to Winter tyres, they are really in vogue at the moment due to "extreme weather conditions" and from what I have seen, it means that the idiots who have never driven in these conditions before think that by putting on Winter rubber, they can behave in the same way as they do in the Summer.
Nothing quite beats taking your time and altering your driving to suit the conditions, sorry folks but as a polymer technician, it really doesn't matter where the hardening point of the rubber lies in the temperature range, if you hit ice at speed, you are heading straight to the next accident.
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I have never in 24 years of driving in snow and ice had the urge to resort to Winter tyres, they are really in vogue at the moment due to "extreme weather conditions" and from what I have seen, it means that the idiots who have never driven in these conditions before think that by putting on Winter rubber, they can behave in the same way as they do in the Summer.
Nothing quite beats taking your time and altering your driving to suit the conditions, sorry folks but as a polymer technician, it really doesn't matter where the hardening point of the rubber lies in the temperature range, if you hit ice at speed, you are heading straight to the next accident.
:whsaid:
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I have never in 24 years of driving in snow and ice had the urge to resort to Winter tyres, they are really in vogue at the moment due to "extreme weather conditions" and from what I have seen, it means that the idiots who have never driven in these conditions before think that by putting on Winter rubber, they can behave in the same way as they do in the Summer.
Nothing quite beats taking your time and altering your driving to suit the conditions, sorry folks but as a polymer technician, it really doesn't matter where the hardening point of the rubber lies in the temperature range, if you hit ice at speed, you are heading straight to the next accident.
I guess you have never had a real winter
Летняя резина не для зимы1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XikZSwUKMuo#)
One incident - two dead. That was because of summer tires
Зимой на летней резине, учитесь на чужих ошибках (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZyOrgvKkow#)
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I have never in 24 years of driving in snow and ice had the urge to resort to Winter tyres, they are really in vogue at the moment due to "extreme weather conditions" and from what I have seen, it means that the idiots who have never driven in these conditions before think that by putting on Winter rubber, they can behave in the same way as they do in the Summer.
Nothing quite beats taking your time and altering your driving to suit the conditions, sorry folks but as a polymer technician, it really doesn't matter where the hardening point of the rubber lies in the temperature range, if you hit ice at speed, you are heading straight to the next accident.
Agree with you about driving on ice, but if you drive in snow or with "soap" on the road, the wintertyres are much better.
If you have ever tried the wintertyres in the same conditions as summertyres you would have no doubt.
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Agree with you about driving on ice, but if you drive in snow or with "soap" on the road, the wintertyres are much better.
If you have ever tried the wintertyres in the same conditions as summertyres you would have no doubt.
Agree with ice, though I have never driven on a clear ice with winter tires, nor with summer ones.
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I think those 2 videos demonstrate Bumpkins point, speed was the problem here, allied with the poor conditions, by the look of the cars in that 2nd video man... he was tankin it!
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I think those 2 videos demonstrate Bumpkins point, speed was the problem here, allied with the poor conditions, by the look of the cars in that 2nd video man... he was tankin it!
I doubt a guy in the first video was driving fast.
In fact I have driven my Getz with summer tires in snow condition, that was in March 2008. It was sunny and warm in the morning, so I decided to get to my work at Pulkovo by car (that was a month I purchased my car and had no money for winter tires). The weather had changed by the evening and it was a heavy snow fall, though the snow melted on the car roads.
I was driving slow the whole way to my home, but once I drove into a residential area the driving became really complicated due to snow blanketing the paths, so I had to concentrate into keeping my car stable, though the speed hardly exceeded 15km/h.
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Maybe not fast... but fast enough to be driving beyond his skills or beyond what was right for a roundabout with ice on I'd say. Or he wouldnt have spun it lol! I couldnt see any other spun cars.
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I couldnt see any other spun cars.
That's because all other cars had winter tires on, I assume.
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I couldnt see any other spun cars.
That's because all other cars had winter tires on, I assume.
Huge assumption... but a reasonable one, I still think people with winter tyres on think they work magic. They dont, essentially they give a shorter braking distance in temperatures below 7degrees C. But if ya fool around on them they will still bite ya ass!
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Summer tires and slow speed
Первый снег, летняя резина, выезд из гаража (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2InuVtB16V0#)
summer vs winter tires on snow
BMW X3 - зимняя резина против летней (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfQsHlMdES8#)
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In the 1st video thats about as much snow as we had, the car in front looked like it was RWD. They are rubbish in those conditions no matter what tyres are fitted.
Roads round by me were littered (well almost) with RWD cars that just couldnt hack it...
For the second video we have to take things at face value dont we.
If we substituted "Winter" & "Summer" on the side of the cars for "Shell" & "Esso" what might we think? Then there are potential differences in the way the drivers drove the cars to make an Advertisers point. But I dont have facts Micha... just an opinion ;-)
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I guess you have never had a real winter
Whilst we may not quite get the Russian Winter, I can assure you that winter in Scotland can be very snowy. In my 24 years of driving, I have driven 20 miles to work and back through snow which is higher than the roof of the car, last Winter was one of the worst the UK has had in some years, yet I was driving about on unploughed roads amongst 2-3 feet of snow in my i30 with no problems. We frequently have black ice in the winter, ie the type that looks like it isn't there then bites your ass. Have a look on a map and you will see that Kolpino is only little further North than Aberdeen (3 degrees lat) so we will have very similar weather.
Your assertion that the lack of winter tyres caused death in these accidents is impossible for me to believe, lack of respect for conditions causes death, not the rubber on the four corners. Whilst there is mileage in the lower hardening point of rubber being used in Winter, you still have to respect the conditions you are driving in, the point I was making is that many people think that winter tyres will save them, they won't, they will stop you quicker on wet surfaces in the colder months, they will bite the snow a little more aggressively than their summer counterparts but they will also slide you off the road into a ditch, wall or other motorist without you being able to do a damn thing about it on ice.
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OK, so in the winter tyres slow speed video we have many assumptions. Who says it is on summer tyres?? Rear wheel drive in snow is traditionally poor, we all know that and the driver in this video appears to have forgotten he has more gears than one, there is hardly any snow yet he is fish tailing which indicates to me that he has too many revs and too low a gear.
The BMW one is a hoot really, they are proud to show the winter tyres are Pirelli Sottozero, they only show us the size of the summer ones, they could be a set of used remoulds for all we know. If I was an executive at BMW I would be embarrassed to show a video which goes to prove what all the motoring press have always stated about the X-series, that is that they are rubbish at being 4WD vehicles, my Imprezas on mid range summer tyres did hill starts everyday of the week in Winter when I lived on an 8 degree incline and they all just went, no drama!
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As I told I had driven in snow with summer tires (the speed was low) and I can conclude that winter tires work much more better.
Either summer or winter tires wouldn't work at all on clear ice, that is no doubt, but in snow condition one has to use winter tires.
In fact it is mandatory in Finland to have winter tires on from December, otherwise one wouldn't be allowed to enter the country (I mean while passing through the border).
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Well, winter tires may help on ice
Покрышка.ру - Тест зимних и летних шин на льду. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JGw573ZCbs#)
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I have not disagreed that winter tyres are better in snow and I am aware that they are mandatory in certain countries.
The point I was making is that for many years we did not have winter tyres and we managed to get around without them ( or AWD, ESP etc etc). An example in the BMW vid showed them taking corners at speeds which the normal driver aware of his surroundings would not attempt, these videos are made in controlled conditions with test drivers, then posted on YouTube, giving Joe Average Driver the mistaken assumption that by fitting slightly stickier rubber to his 250 bhp motor, he can just go for it.
I will say again, I have never used winter tyres, driving in many feet of unploughed snow over many years and never had any problems.
I have no problem with using all the help we can get on modern vehicles to ensure our safety, but all the gadgets in the world does not make us invincible.
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I've never had winter tyres and I doubt if I'll be getting any now. The reason I was wondering about getting some was that I used to go round to my mother's house two or three times a day as she relied on me to cook her meals and get supplies etc. So if I couldn't get through in the car then she'd starve! Though early last year the social sevices insisted I put her into a home to get 24 hour care so the need has gone.
Many years ago we had a pretty bad winter and fortunately I had some snow chains for my Morris Marina. I'd give lifts to work for colleagues whose own cars had got stuck somewhere. Winter tyres wouldn't have been as good as chains of course (I'm not sure I'd ever heard of them at the time actually) but surely would have been better than summer tyres.
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Of course you can drive with summer tires in winter (okay not in Slovenia, because you must have winter tires on from 15h Nov. till 15th March) and as some of you have said, people used to drive with "summer" (only) tires all the time (even in snow), but I think we can all agree, that winter tires are better in snow or on ice. If you hardly climb up some hill with decent winter tires, then there is no chance you will climb the same hill with summer (also decent) ones. It's different with ice, I agree, but there still is some difference in favor of winter tires.
diablo: Good thing you did cooking for her and getting the supplies :goodjob: