i30 Owners Club
OFF TOPIC => WORLD NEWS => Motoring => Topic started by: AlanHo on March 07, 2012, 22:15:40
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More Detroit ingenuity, with the USA tax payers bail out money.
Cost to operate a Chevy Volt (The new General Motors electric car) using USA costs.
Eric Bolling (Fox Business Channel's Follow the Money) test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors.
For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine.
Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery.
So, the range including the 9 gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.
It will take you 4 1/2 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours.
In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.
According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery.
The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned so I looked up what I pay for electricity.
I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh.
16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery.
$18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery.
Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine only that gets 32 mpg.
$3.19 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.10 per mile.
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Which is how they got in that position in the first place. Even today, they insist on building dinosaur SUV's etc. :wacko:
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Apparently the Volt is coming to Australia and will cost something like 70,000 (we won't be buying one) :whistler:
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I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh.
Really? By my last bill, all up AUD $0.28 kwh not allowing for any exchange rate.
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I pay in the UK an average of £0.122 per kWh (0.181 AUD)
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So your calculations are out somewhat? Even so I accept your point.
Electric is never going to be the way to go (hybrid included) until a battery that offers sufficient and cheap storage is invented. I don't see that happening until the oil runs out... even then it's a major technical difficulty.
Fuel cells (electric generation in real time) are still on the table but for me the best has already been invented. I call it diesel! Diesel electric (as used in trains) might be a possible answer (have they tried?) by using the best of the efficiencies of both technologies together.
For the immediate future... diesel.
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They are not my calculations - it was an article in a USA newspaper and the words are those of the reporter. I was merely repeating what the reporter said in the paper.
Peugot have recently launched a diesel electric car which has had reasonable reception from the brown envelope brigade in the Car magazines.
http://tinyurl.com/7v5zupu (http://tinyurl.com/7v5zupu)
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They are not my calculations...
Ah, sorry, as it was not quoted I assumed it was you talking. My apologies for misunderstanding.
In any case we agree. :wink:
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I thought the Volt had a petrol engine whose purpose was to run a generator if you like that keeps the battery engine running.
This puts it better:
"If the battery's energy runs low before the car be connected to a charging station, a small petrol engine kicks in to send power through a generator that in turn recharges the battery - and keeps the electric motor spinning".
Seems the article may be one written for the oil companies?
Still, at 70k, I won't be in one.
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/53038/holden-volt-our-first-drive-road-test-review (http://www.themotorreport.com.au/53038/holden-volt-our-first-drive-road-test-review)
Price: Australian pricing TBA (US price USD$39,145)
Power (electric motor): 111kW
Torque (electric motor): 368Nm
Fuel Economy (all electric use): 0 l/100km
Fuel Economy (using petrol engine for recharge): 3.8-4.8 l/100km estimated (based on US test results)
Recharge cost at household power-point: $2.50 estimated
Recharge time using household power-point: Six hours approx.
How US $39,145 can turn into AUD $70k with the Aussie dollar over $1 USD one will never know....
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Page 54 of the latest Ecocar (Issue 14)
In an article about the "Holden" Volt coming to Australia shortly...
"Although unconfirmed, the suggested price range will be about the $70,000 mark."
Like you say beerman .. hard to justify that figure.. :fum:
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Page 54 of the latest Ecocar (Issue 14)
In an article about the "Holden" Volt coming to Australia shortly...
"Although unconfirmed, the suggested price range will be about the $70,000 mark."
Like you say beerman .. hard to justify that figure.. :fum:
I'd be sacking GM's marketing people, trying to sell such an impractical concept at such a ridiculous price is absolute madness.
i'd be embarassed to have it in my showroom. :disapp:
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Unfortunately people will buy these cars, thinking that they are doing the "right thing" by the environment. Local councils will get wrapped up in buying them, to appease the lobbyist green groups. It happened when I was living in Hobart about ten years back when the Prius first come to Australia. Councils down in "eco friendly" Hobart were spending up big on buying the Prius, but to me it didn't pass the "common sense" test. (Don't get me wrong, I am for protecting the environment)
The Prius base model now is $40 000 drive away (or there abouts) and has a claimed 3.9 l/100km (combined) and must use at least 95 octane fuel. Now a base model i30 CRDi in the same location is $23 090 drive away and has a claimed 4.7 l/100km (combined). I am aware of the differences between claimed and actual, but it allows us to compare apples with apples.
With current fuel prices, it would take a hell of a lot of driving to reap the $17 000 back!! IMO it does not make sense. Even if they say they are doing it for the environment (and I am sure that they are well meaning and intend to), $17 000 buys a hell of a lot of trees!!
So basically, if you care about the environment, don't buy a Hybrid, buy a modern common rail turbo diesel (European or Asian) and invest the rest in green projects.
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Page 54 of the latest Ecocar (Issue 14)
In an article about the "Holden" Volt coming to Australia shortly...
"Although unconfirmed, the suggested price range will be about the $70,000 mark."
Like you say beerman .. hard to justify that figure.. :fum:
I bought my first electronic calculator in the mid-seventies from a shop here in W.A.
As it was new technology, it cost me $74 would you believe?
It was a rather bulky Sharp ElsiMate (which I still have and which still works perfectly).
My point is, the price of any technology always comes down to a reasonable level after a while.
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Unfortunately people will buy these cars, thinking that they are doing the "right thing" by the environment. Local councils will get wrapped up in buying them, to appease the lobbyist green groups. It happened when I was living in Hobart about ten years back when the Prius first come to Australia. Councils down in "eco friendly" Hobart were spending up big on buying the Prius, but to me it didn't pass the "common sense" test. (Don't get me wrong, I am for protecting the environment)
The Prius base model now is $40 000 drive away (or there abouts) and has a claimed 3.9 l/100km (combined) and must use at least 95 octane fuel. Now a base model i30 CRDi in the same location is $23 090 drive away and has a claimed 4.7 l/100km (combined). I am aware of the differences between claimed and actual, but it allows us to compare apples with apples.
With current fuel prices, it would take a hell of a lot of driving to reap the $17 000 back!! IMO it does not make sense. Even if they say they are doing it for the environment (and I am sure that they are well meaning and intend to), $17 000 buys a hell of a lot of trees!!
So basically, if you care about the environment, don't buy a Hybrid, buy a modern common rail turbo diesel (European or Asian) and invest the rest in green projects.
Don't forget the resale, Prius loses money big time in depreciation your 23k I30 and your 40k Prius both sell for about the same amount come disposal time (give one or two k which is nothing when you compare the difference at the start).
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Yes & BTW, What happens when the batteries are worn out, Big $ outlay and Big recycling requirement. I wouldn't want to be a second owner of the 1st Prius's. They must be about due for batteries. :disapp:
PS Sorry for the downer on hybrids. Dazz.
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So basically, if you care about the environment, don't buy a Hybrid, buy a modern common rail turbo diesel (European or Asian) and invest the rest in green projects.
Don't forget the resale, Prius loses money big time in depreciation your 23k I30 and your 40k Prius both sell for about the same amount come disposal time (give one or two k which is nothing when you compare the difference at the start).
Yes & BTW, What happens when the batteries are worn out, Big $ outlay and Big recycling requirement. I wouldn't want to be a second owner of the 1st Prius's. They must be about due for batteries. :disapp:
thanks guys.. that's cheered me up no end :blubber:
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That cheer up from the Tassie movie didn't last long did it :whistler:
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That cheer up from the Tassie movie didn't last long did it :whistler:
Fortunately, I read that after this.. :P
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Don't worry Dazz, we'll have you back in a CRDi soon & you won't have to worry about all this stuff. ;)
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Don't worry Dazz, we'll have you back in a CRDi soon & you won't have to worry about all this stuff. ;)
I reckon it will happen (but not for about 2 years .. and it will be an i40 Sedan) :goodjob:
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt)
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/53696/holdens-upcoming-volt-is-europes-2012-car-of-the-year (http://www.themotorreport.com.au/53696/holdens-upcoming-volt-is-europes-2012-car-of-the-year)
http://www.caradvice.com.au/159029/holden-volt-how-does-it-work-video/ (http://www.caradvice.com.au/159029/holden-volt-how-does-it-work-video/)
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There were about 1,000 electric vehicles registered in the UK in the year to October last year, hardly a great success.
A while ago they might have made sense for some London commuters as they were exempt from the congestion charge. But these days there are plenty of small cars with conventional engines which are under the magic 100g/km emissions.
A Nissan Loaf might be nice but a Hyundai i10 is a lot cheaper and there is no danger of forgetting to plug it in at night. :)
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I get 900 kms out of my Hybrid and it only uses petrol for about half of the 14kms home/work/home journey.. They can stick that "how it works" video where the sun don't shine.. :whistler: :rofl: :rofl:
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...They can stick that "how it works" video where the sun don't shine..
Yeah, Manchester :confused:
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Yes & BTW, What happens when the batteries are worn out, Big $ outlay and Big recycling requirement. I wouldn't want to be a second owner of the 1st Prius's. They must be about due for batteries. :disapp:
PS Sorry for the downer on hybrids. Dazz.
Actually, when I was getting the wife's car fixed at Yellow Cabs (no one else could work out what was wrong with the rear suspension) Old mate there was raving about them. I said what about the batteries, don't they die? He said, only ever had 2 go that weren't under warranty, and they picked up some batteries from the wreckers for less than 1k.
So perhaps its not as bad as most people are saying (and a second hand one might be a good buy).
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Thanks Beerman :goodjob: They come with 8 years warranty on the batteries now :goodjob:
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Feel free to go and buy one, but I think I'll pass thanks. :D
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I'm not rushing out to get one, but when 50-60% of the Brisbane Taxi Fleet is either a Hybrid Camry or Prius, they can't be excluded for their reliability. If they couldn't do 500-600k cheaply they wouldn't be running them.
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I'm not rushing out to get one, but when 50-60% of the Brisbane Taxi Fleet is either a Hybrid Camry or Prius, they can't be excluded for their reliability. If they couldn't do 500-600k cheaply they wouldn't be running them.
That's interesting.. I'm as happy with the Hybrid as I was with the SLX CRDi (for different reasons of course) But they are well put together and a pleasure to be in .. I did a quick calculation and the Hybrid is costing me about $5 per week more in fuel than the CRDi did, working on an average of 400kms per week..
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Once the fed govt wakes up, they'll do to batteries what they're doing to LPG, i.e. increase the tax on them each year to increase their revenues and make it a less viable fuel source for motorists.
And to think they say they have green credentials.
I see over here now, many taxi drivers are even saying they won't be buying LPG cars in the future as the benefits are fast disappearing.
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Don't worry Dazz, we'll have you back in a CRDi soon & you won't have to worry about all this stuff. ;)
I reckon it will happen (but not for about 2 years .. and it will be an i40 Sedan) :goodjob:
Top choice Dazz :goodjob2: