The Original i30 Owners Club

GOT PROBLEMS OR ISSUES? => PETROL => Topic started by: Dazzler on July 03, 2012, 00:51:03

Title: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Dazzler on July 03, 2012, 00:51:03: Trish had trouble starting her 2.0 Litre Petrol i30 CW on Saturday just gone. It took about 6 goes to get it to start (normally first time every time)

When it did start it was very rattlely (as per the video below)

It was a cold morning (probably got down to 2.0C) but the car is garaged..

I checked the oil (once it had settled it was nearly at the full mark and still looked fairly clean) last service was about 5 months and 4000 kms ago with Castrol Edge Sport 5W-30 oil.

Water Level ok, no smoke from the exhaust or oil under the car..

Trish does one or two 10 to 20 km drives per week although in the last week prior to this she did a 200km return trip and a 100km return trip with no issues...

We have theory .. but what do you folks think??

Noisy Hyundai (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK4Hv0WQC4Q#)
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Pip on July 03, 2012, 00:57:53: Did the rattle settle down or was there no sign that it would stop?
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: rustynutz on July 03, 2012, 01:07:00: Sounds like a noisy tappet.....

The 2.0 litre engine uses mechanical valve lash adjusters, not hydraulic lifters, yes? :undecided:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Dazzler on July 03, 2012, 01:10:09: Quote from: Pip on July 03, 2012, 00:57:53
Did the rattle settle down or was there no sign that it would stop?

It seems ok now Pip.. Initially we were quite worried but I gave it a run a bit later and it seemed fine... (we ended up taking my car to do what Trish was heading out for)

The fuel light was on (but I think it had only just come on), so I put $20 of BP in it and it seems ok now (no more trouble starting and not as noisy when cold) So I suspect dirty fuel or poor fuel maybe . Trish filled up at a Woolworths branded Caltex a day or two before :confused:

Yes Rusty .. certainly sounds like tappets.. :(
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Pip on July 03, 2012, 01:26:55: I wouldn't suspect fuel at all. :confused:

Sounds like hydraulic tappets failed to pressurise which might affect valve opening properly and might account for the starting difficulty. I have no idea what sort of tappets it has.

If something like that it suggests an oil artery blockage or other that affected the flow to the engine top. It's unlikely to be a problem with the oil itself. I use that in our getz and it has never given any indication of not being perfect for the job.

But a blockage in such a young car? Unlikely. So that leaves something related to the tappets themselves or a stuck valve perhaps. A valve partially open could cause a lot of rattle and obviously cause a misfire in that cylinder.

Either way I'd be taking it in with your video but I'm sure you are ahead of me there. :cool:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: rustynutz on July 03, 2012, 01:29:56: :whsaid:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Dazzler on July 03, 2012, 02:46:50: Thanks guys.. Because it has settled down now I was going to monitor it for a while as by the time we go 5 kms to the dealer it would be running as smooth as silk .. I guess the video would help .. Maybe I should just ask the dealer by phone what they recommend at this stage?
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Surferdude on July 03, 2012, 06:50:39: Geez Dazz, that sounds terrible. I think I'd be talking to the dealer, with the video.
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: TrishCW on July 03, 2012, 07:31:17: Hi guys,
Thanks for your advice, it is booked in for Tuesday.
Till then it won't be going far, I'm just pleased it happened at home and not when I was away the other day.
I did a short trip to the shop today, all was ok no noise.
see what they say Tuesday.

Daz can take it in, more likley to listen to him.
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Shambles on July 03, 2012, 08:20:51: Wahay! It played for me, here at work :D

Got to agree with the tappet theory - definitely a hydraulic failing to pressurise. I'd say, if you'd left the engine running for 10 mins, the noise would have ceased.

Quote from: TrishCW on July 03, 2012, 07:31:17
Daz can take it in, more likley to listen to him.
An Angry Dazz entering a dealership.....

(click to show/hide)
(http://i.imgur.com/6Bru6.jpg)
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Doggie 1 on July 03, 2012, 08:50:13: I'd be registering the issue at the dealership for future reference, if needed.
I'm no mechanic but it sounds like a distinct lack of oil flow to the top end.
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: komaterpillar on July 03, 2012, 09:05:32: as said earlier i would be getting the dealer to have a look even if it is to just register the problem for future reference.

hydraulic lash adjusters should not bleed down to the extent where you can hear them in as short a time as overnight. there is definately something going on here, that shouldn't be, i wonder if something to do to with the cvvt has gone astray? although i wouldn't have thought this would have made a lifter noise. :undecided:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: komaterpillar on July 03, 2012, 09:13:04: just had another listen and it only sounds like one or maybe two rockers, so this may rule out a top end oil pressure issue because i would think that if there were an oil pressure issue there would be more than one lash adjuster not pumping up. maybe one or two beginning to collapse? or with a bit of crap stuck under the check valve letting them leak down overnight and not pump back up?
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Phil №❶ on July 03, 2012, 09:23:04: Some thoughts.

1. I had a brand new fire pump in my previous house. It was used initially for testing and not for fires. The following year, I had a stuck valve. Oil was as new & the motor had done 1hrs work. Stuck valves can happen any time.

2. Trish's car does not do long hauls or hard work, this can cause build up on a valve stem possibly. I would use a upper cylinder lube Redex etc. added to the fuel to protect the valves.

3. Put 500mls of metho in your fuel every month to emulsify any water in your fuel, as a precaution. Note, don't EVER do this with diesel

I use E10 ethanol for this reason & my 3.8lt Commodore loves it.

:neutral:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Dazzler on July 03, 2012, 10:20:55: Thanks for all the feedback guys ... :goodjob: (like that picture Steve) :snigger:

You've convinced me to get it in for an inspection (can't fit us in until next week - Tuesday was better for Trish than Monday)

The Service reception girl said you haven't had your 15,000 service then.. I said Oh yes we did but not here .. :whistler:

She said have they had a look at this problem (obviously I said no! :fum:)

Got it done at Hi Tune motors Devonport where my mate works (I supplied the filter and Castol Edge Sport Oil...) at the 12 month anniversay in January at about 8000kms

The engine hasn't missed a beat up to now :undecided:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: rustynutz on July 03, 2012, 11:51:30: Hey guys, pretty sure there's no hydraulic lifters in the 2.0 litre engine..... :whistler:

Solid lifters, me thinks.... :undecided:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: eye30 on July 03, 2012, 12:49:29: Now here is my thought:

After reading all the posts so far I'd not rule out the timing belt tensioner.

(Is there one in this engine?)
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Pip on July 04, 2012, 01:29:33: Quote from: eye30 on July 03, 2012, 12:49:29
Now here is my thought:

After reading all the posts so far I'd not rule out the timing belt tensioner.

(Is there one in this engine?)

Yes, there are other things mechanical that can make a noise but what will also make it hard to start and then magically come good? That's the question. :confused:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Dazzler on July 04, 2012, 01:56:11: Quote from: Pip on July 04, 2012, 01:29:33
Quote from: eye30 on July 03, 2012, 12:49:29
Now here is my thought:

After reading all the posts so far I'd not rule out the timing belt tensioner.

(Is there one in this engine?)

Yes, there are other things mechanical that can make a noise but what will also make it hard to start and then magically come good? That's the question. :confused:

I'm not expecting miracles .. I doubt they will find anything :whistler:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Phil №❶ on July 04, 2012, 11:22:44: Is it still ticking like the video :question:

Rusty, How would the tensioner cause a ticking sound. :question:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Dazzler on July 04, 2012, 11:30:23: Trish isn't too keen to use it at the moment but the couple of times she has it started fine and sounds ok (thought I could hear a bit of a tick but could be just my imagination) Certainly nothing like on the video ..

Was actually a bit louder than the video when Trish first called me... :confused:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Phil №❶ on July 04, 2012, 11:38:18: I would actually recommend driving it. the more info you can give the workshop, the better. Any damage done will be repaired by the warranty. To me, it's probably a lube thing. Does your engine have pushrods at all. Even OHC can have short ones, I'm not familiar with this engines layout. We had a red Holden 179 bend a pushrod on it's 1st holiday from Adelaide to Brisbane in 1964 EH Hydramatic 1st engine with hydraulic valves. Didn't fill us with confidence, yet they were a fantastically reliable engine, in hindsight. :neutral:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: rustynutz on July 04, 2012, 11:41:56: Quote from: 847563 on July 04, 2012, 11:22:44
Is it still ticking like the video :question:

Rusty, How would the tensioner cause a ticking sound. :question:

You're asking the wrong person, Phil.....Try Lester... :winker:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Phil №❶ on July 04, 2012, 11:55:51: I knew that, just seeing if you're awake :-[

Don't know how I arrived at that conclusion, sorry.

I'll re-direct to eye30 :exclaim:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: rustynutz on July 04, 2012, 12:04:55: No worries, Phil.... :D

I'm gonna stick with it being a sticky valve..... :undecided:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Doggie 1 on July 04, 2012, 12:06:01: I'll stick with an oil flow restriction.
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: 2i30s on July 08, 2012, 00:32:06: your oil filter could even be faulty Dazz/Trish. :idea: when you started the car did the oil light go out as soon as the engine fired up? :scared:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Dazzler on July 08, 2012, 01:38:40: Quote from: 2i30s on July 08, 2012, 00:32:06
your oil filter could even be faulty Dazz/Trish. :idea: when you started the car did the oil light go out as soon as the engine fired up? :scared:

Hope not (think I used a Ryco :whistler:) I don't think Trish would have noticed..(too late to check now) :confused:

When I test drove it shortly afterwards there was no indication of the problem with lights or performance. When she started it to show me after she first heard the noise and it was still a bit noisy the first thing I did was look at the Dash for warning lights but none showing. :sweating:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: 2i30s on July 08, 2012, 11:27:15: that's weird,the mechanic you get to suss it out hopefully finds the cause. :sweating:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Dazzler on July 08, 2012, 11:28:41: Quote from: 2i30s on July 08, 2012, 11:27:15
that's weird,the mechanic you get to suss it out hopefully finds the cause. :sweating:

Thanks Steve .. just glad we have another 3 and a half years warranty :sweating:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: 2i30s on July 08, 2012, 11:55:03: even if they look for the cause and don't find one,it will be recorded on their computer. if there is a failure after the warranty ends the car will still be repaired because the fault was recorded under warranty but not found. :winker:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Doggie 1 on July 08, 2012, 11:57:54: :whsaid:
I had a friend with a Ford Falcon with a similar situation and Ford tried to weasel their way out of it but following letters to Consumer Affairs etc they ahd to honour it because it had previously been recorded prior to the NCW expiring.
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Dazzler on July 08, 2012, 11:59:39: :goodjob:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: 2i30s on July 08, 2012, 12:13:44: Quote from: db08 on July 08, 2012, 11:57:54
:whsaid:
I had a friend with a Ford Falcon with a similar situation and Ford tried to weasel their way out of it but following letters to Consumer Affairs etc they Had to honour it because it had previously been recorded prior to the NCW expiring.
i know of a similar situation Dave. :goodjob2: :goodjob:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Dazzler on July 10, 2012, 02:57:28: Update....

I dropped Trish's CW in around 8.30 am and got a message at bout 10.30am to say it was ready for collection (I said i needed it by 11.30 at the latest so I had time to get to work.

They weren't overly friendly but helpful and efficient enough.

They said there were no error messages and no service bulletins outlining an issue like this with the 2.0 petrol.

They could find nothing wrong although they said the oil was down about 250ml which they topped up at no charge.

They suggested if it was hard to start again to look out for the immobilizer symbol (car with a key in it) in case that is playing up. If so to try another key (or I told Trish to lock and unlock it again - as I have the spare key)

They couldn't play my MP4 file :rolleyes: They said it needed to be MP3 (surely they could have found a laptop lying around) :whistler:

There was no charge and they were helpful enough.. They made it obvious they were less than impressed I had got it serviced elsewhere (without actually spelling it out :D
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: rustynutz on July 10, 2012, 03:07:04: Probably the result you expected, hey Daz?

As for not appreciating you having the car serviced elsewhere, I'm sure they know what they need to do.... :whistler:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Pip on July 10, 2012, 03:50:02: Quote from: Dazzler on July 10, 2012, 02:57:28
They couldn't play my MP4 file...

Really? IMO that made the whole exercise less than useful. That was the evidence, without that they could but guess; and things like immobiliser are not likely to produce such a clatter. Of course I'm guessing too but I'm not charged with fixing it. :wink:

So you are left with nothing to go on and if it does it again you will not have advanced at all. :confused:

You did leave them the vid (or link) to play? Unless they really showed interest they probably won't bother anyway. :undecided:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Doggie 1 on July 10, 2012, 06:39:08: That's a bit disappointing Dazz.
At least it is recorded though in case future intervention is needed but I know from experience that if you have your car serviced elsewhere (and I do) that they will try everything they can to let Hyundai off the hook for anything that happens.
I know that isn't right, but they do try.
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Phil №❶ on July 10, 2012, 07:53:28: Well Dazz,

You should have taken your cheap tablet in, to show them the mp4. The only thing I can say about the whole situation is that at the top of the motor, there was a temporary shortage of oil. What caused it, who knows, the only culprits to me are

1. Shortage of oil - 250 mls wouldn't be enough IMO.
2. Low oil pressure - should be a warning light if so.
3. Possible relief valve stuck in the oil pump, briefly.
4. Filter obstruction.
5. Temporary obstruction in an oil channel from oil pump to the top of motor.

I think 1 & 2 can be safely eliminated. 3, may never happen again. 4 is unlikely due to the care you take with the car, & 5 just could be caused by lots of short trips generating a small mass of obstructing material.

As far as servicing goes, tell them to match your current facility and you will entertain using them. The "No fault codes returned" is fast becoming the oldest excuse in the book IMO. As sophisticated as these engines are becoming with their electronics, they simply don't measure enough parameters to become a proper diagnostic tool, for example, there are multiple galleries where the oils is pumped from the oil pump to the cylinder head, Can they tell you what the pressure in each of the galleries is, or that oil is in fact flowing at all, no they can't, only by observation and sound, which is what you heard. QED :exclaim:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Dazzler on July 10, 2012, 10:22:08: The Service receptionists offsider said they would concentrate on why it would not start as the extra fuel injected into the motor could have caused the rattle :whistler:

I had my laptop with me but I am sure if they really wanted to view or listen to the video they could have found a way .. All the salesmen in that place have flash laptops :rolleyes:

I will keep the no-charge invoice with their notes on it in a safe place :goodjob:

Was sounding perfectly normal when I started it from cold this morning and seemed quite responsive :cool:
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: eye30 on July 10, 2012, 11:43:29: Quote from: Dazzler on July 10, 2012, 10:22:08
I will keep the no-charge invoice with their notes on it in a safe place :goodjob:

Well now it has been reported and given "a clean bill of health" should the same/related problem occur in the future which requires major repair they can't dismiss it because you failed to take immediate action etc etc etc..
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: accim on July 10, 2012, 11:51:55: Could it be the oil? Some petrol engines tend to be louder if putting 5W-30 oil in them.. I know some cases, when people experienced louder engine noise with 5W-30 oils (petrol engines), so they started pouring in 5W-40 gradation. Most of the i30/Ceed owners which I know, put 5W-40 oil in their 1.4/1.6 petrol engines, over here.

That's probably not the reason for that noise, but I thought I should mention it..
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Dazzler on July 10, 2012, 11:59:08: I still have about 6 litres of Castrol Edge Sport 5w-30 left but I might grab some quality 5W-40 Fully Synthetic this month from Repco while I can get 20% off, won't need it until next January though for Trish's annual service (well he car anyway) when it will have done probably 16,000 kms... THANKS ACCIM WILL GIVE IT A TRY :goodjob:

It doesn't do many trips less than say 10kms at a time and Trish drives reasonably zippy around town...
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: rustynutz on July 10, 2012, 12:22:48: If you miss the Repco sale, Daz..Supercheap usually have a 20% off sale for fathers day in September.... :)
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Dazzler on July 10, 2012, 12:31:11: :goodjob: Rusty (I was a little bit disappointed in the range of oils repco had on offer last time I looked..) Castrol Edge is now called Titanium and was about $74 I think (before the discount)
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: rustynutz on July 10, 2012, 13:15:38: Yeah, seems changing to Titanium was a good excuse to bump up the price by another 10 bucks or so...... :rolleyes:

I got my last lot of 0w40 oil from Supercheap when they had a 20% off sale too....Cost me around $68.

5w40 titanium works out around 60 bucks with 20% off. :)
Title: Re: TrishCW - Noisy Tappets? in 2.0 Petrol CW
Post by: Dazzler on July 10, 2012, 13:17:28: I could get mobil one or Shell Helix Ultra Extra for that :happydance: