i30 Owners Club
FUEL ISSUES & ECONOMY => DIESEL => Topic started by: Aussie Keith on December 30, 2012, 21:49:29
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Just acquired a new CRDi and its reporting 5.6 after a run from Brisbane to Toowoomba. It was down to 5.1 but I held the revs @ about 3000 to go up the range. Probably not necessary but excellent fun. It seems the figures are most likely academic, it does not seem to use much fuel at all.
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Welcome Keith .. Nice car and nice feedback :goodjob2: :goodjob:
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Hi keith_h
Welcome to the forum, and congrats on the new car.
Your first dieselcar.. Just wondering why you would keep the revs at 3000 when cruising on the highway.. :question:
...or did I misunderstand something.. :question:
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Hi & welcome to the forum. :goodjob2:
Asterix, I think he's referring to when climbing the hills.
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The Toowoomba range is very steep and requires a bit of a boot from any car. Still could easily sit on 2500 but 3000 means zoom zoom!
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Where is the Toowoomba range, relevant to your destination in minutes. At those revs, the turbo will be working quite hard so it is important that the engine gets at least 1 minute at idle before switch off, to cool the turbo shaft. Is that happening in your case.
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Hi & welcome to the forum. :goodjob2:
Asterix, I think he's referring to when climbing the hills.
Maybe, but I can tow my 1400 kg caravan and i30 fully loaded, on a 5 % incline doing 85 km/h in 4th gear at 2500 revs.
But then again, I have never been at the Toowoomba range.. :snigger:
And as Kieth wrote:
Probably not necessary but excellent fun.
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Thanks all for the comments and observations. Toowoomba is about 90 minutes west of Brisbane and the drive up the range is quite steep and infested with trucks in low gear and other slow moving traffic. While the car will easily grunt up the hill I chose to keep the revs up slightly to keep things moving along. Being brand new, 3000 rpm seemed to do the trick nicely and only takes a few minutes if you get a good run. The car now has a whole 490km on it after the return trip, the fuel consumption following the trip was 5.5 according to the computer which was reset just before I left and 7.1 from a refill taking into account some around town driving done prior to hitting the highway. I may not have filled it up completely the first time either. Irrespective, its used about the same amount of fuel for the journey as our Getz while carting a much bigger load and its brand spanking new to boot. Range is about twice that of a Getz and its just a much better place to be on the road, easier to drive, more comfortable for passengers the list goes on. As the engine acquires some kilometres I expect the fuel consumption to get even better so its all good so far as I can see.
http://goo.gl/maps/4q9Se (http://goo.gl/maps/4q9Se)
Driving this car on the highway is quite interesting. Overtaking requires a tiny flex of the ankle, imperceptibly to passengers the car assumes an overtaking speed. Moving back out of the overtaking lane and the car resumes its cruising speed. Its uncanny how effortlessly this occurs. The auto transmission works well and passengers reported being unable to detect gear changes. Nice work Hyundai engineers.
@ Asterix, thanks for the heads up on the turbo, I'll keep that in mind however this car will mostly be driven more in line with its makers intentions I think as there is absolutely no need to wind it up on a regular basis. I used the cruise control down the highway, only held it in gear for a few minutes up the hill. I previously had a Golf diesel but i30 CDRi/auto is a much better car in my view.
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What a great post.
Especially the last bit. ;) :goodjob2:
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:agreed: :whsaid:
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Yes, Unlike another of our recent new members.. You HAVE read "how to win friends and influence people" :D Like Dave said great post thanks :happydance:
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Nice writeup, but must admit I cringed a bit though when I read that you kept it spinning at 3,000rpm on a brand new engine... :confused:
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Nice writeup, but must admit I cringed a bit though when I read that you kept it spinning at 3,000rpm on a brand new engine... :confused:
But the redline is way past 3k. :wink: The i30 manual states engine speed between 2 and 4k is preferred for the first 1000km so I figured its OK to keep it at 3k briefly and possibly better than letting it grind its way up at lower engine speeds.
An observation from when I did this, the engine seemed quite happy and stress free, not noisy and it fairly flew up the hill. Most unexpected behavior from a diesel engined car in my experience.
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Yes, redline is way past, but maximum torque is from around 1900 to 2800rpm.....
>but I held the revs @ about 3000 to go up the range.
That is the part that made me cringe, if it was just a brief rev I wouldn't have any near as much concern...
Call me old fashioned but I just don't believe in giving an engine too much stick with so little k's on the clock.....
That's not to say I am right.. :undecided:
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Us older guys who well remember the days when you had to treat the car with cotton gloves for the first X000 miles might be reluctant to adjust. But it is a long time since I bought a car that had to be nursed.
I must confess that for some years now I have driven new cars no differently to older ones. Modern manufacturing techniques and high quality control standards by all the leading brands make it unecessary to "run in" a modern engine.
An engine running at 3000 rpm in a high gear will not be loaded as highly as one developing the same power in a lower gear and doing say 1500 rpm.
You can prove this for yourself - ride a bike up hill - and see which gear you feel most comfortable with.
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:whsaid:
Alfa Romeo used to pull boxer engines off the production line and run them at the redline on a dyno as a quality control measure.
I'm pretty sure its not an issue these days but I can understand why some folks might be a little uncomfortable at the thought of keeping an engine spinning like I did but as Alan indicates the engine was loaded more lightly than had I made it go up the hill at lower revs. That was a no no way back when for a new engine and its outside Hyundai's recommendations today as well.
Here's some info on "breaking in" piston aviation engines which explains whats going on and might help alleviate some concerns. http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182895-1.html (http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182895-1.html)
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Modern manufacturing techniques and high quality control standards by all the leading brands make it unecessary to "run in" a modern engine.
Thanks Alan, but surely the fact that the little diesel starts to give it's best fuel consumption somewhere after 10,000k would suggest that things still need to "run in" as such? :undecided:
Here's some info on "breaking in" piston aviation engines which explains whats going on and might help alleviate some concerns. http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182895-1.html (http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182895-1.html)
Thanks for the link, Keith.... :goodjob:
At the end of the day if you intend on only keeping your car for a couple of years, I guess it doesn't really matter.... :whistler:
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lol.
We had two golfs, the diesel did over 500k before the front end fell out. The engine did about 300k before needing a rebuild. The petrol one did over 300k before we sold it but it was used for motorkhanas and track work. I rebuilt the engine at about 200k. There was never an issue with engine longevity for either of them even with, lets say, "vigorous" use. It has been my experience that the key to longevity is regular oil changes and maintenance.
I'm expecting much better things from the i30 and its not going anywhere near a track. Nonetheless, they appear to go pretty well... :whistler:
http://www.youtube.com/v/FmEAhBwg_fo
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That is an FD model Auto too.. and that Driver is a member on here (hasn't posted for a while though) :cool:
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Is it the Stig? :undecided:
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Must be Bristig, it appears he knows his way round Lakeside. I noted the earlier diesel car also used in the Tassie Targa. Note in the comments someone asked about the fuel consumption. :rofl:
http://www.youtube.com/v/SbFvSAVGe6o
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The black car is back from a longish trip today, also showing 5.5 on the readout. Awaiting a refill before working out what the actual fuel consumption looks like.
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The black car is back from a longish trip today, also showing 5.5 on the readout. Awaiting a refill before working out what the actual fuel consumption looks like.
Pretty good for a new (tight) Auto... :goodjob:
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:whsaid:
Do you know what the average speed is showing?
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How do I check?
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How do I check?
I haven't had a play with the Trip Computer in the new model but in the old one I think you just pressed the display repeatedly to get the different readouts :undecided:
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Same in the new one, just scroll through until av speed comes up.
It's a good indicator of the type of driving you've done on a particular tank.
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Average is 60 for about 400km.
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Average is 60 for about 400km.
I guess that would equate to about 50/50 Urban/Rural driving? :confused:
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I'd say so.
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I would have thought that was more highway. :undecided:
On my current tank, I've done 450 km average 48 km/h at 4.8 l/100 km and although it has been mainly metro, a lot of it has been on metropolitan highways with speed limits of 80 or 90 km/h.
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If I do mainly highway I average around 90 kph :happydance:
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I'll have to keep a closer eye on mine. Admittedly it's something I haven't taken that much notice of until recently when it was a question that was asked of me when I posted my fuel economy results.
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Driving the diesel i30 is a new experience for us. I tend to drive gently. Others are still coming to grips with the acceleration available if you press just that little bit harder and quite enjoy seeing cars disappearing in the rear vision mirror. My wife (a known lead foot) has been a driver of Alfa's for decades and this transition has been interesting for her. For example at the local highway entrance the Alfa would be often be revved right out in the gears to get up to highway speed, good fun. In contrast, the i30 quickly and gently assumes 100km per hour without fuss or dramatic acceleration and rapidly overtakes by gently flexing the ankle ever so slightly. No need to change down two gears and nail the accelerator whatsoever. So there's some driver adjustment required before we can expect to see optimum results.
Nonetheless a combined 5.5 right off the bat for mixed driving is not unreasonable. That's about 50mpg with the promise of better things down the track.
http://motormouth.com.au/myvehicle/consumptioncalculator.aspx (http://motormouth.com.au/myvehicle/consumptioncalculator.aspx)
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@ Keith_h,
My friend of 40+ years & his wife, asked to drive ours on Friday night for that very reason.
We joined the freeway and after the entry ramp I said "without changing down, go to 110 kmh," so he gently pressed the pedal and was amazed. No kickdown required, 3 adults in the car and just delightful pull to 110. Then I said "slow to 80 and set CC and climb that hill". He did, the car cruised up the hill at 80, no worries, no gear change required.
They ordered one the next day. :goodjob2:
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I demonstrated this in a similar manner to my parents last night. They just recently bought a petrol engined car from another manufacturer and now wish they had taken the i30 for a spin first.
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Those last
two three posts gave me a warm fuzzy feeling and I don't even have an i30 CRDi any more :goodjob2: :goodjob: :disapp:
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They gave me a warm fuzzy feeling too and I have got one. :D
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Great, aint it :yahoo:
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Another tank of fuel working out to 8.2l/100km or about 34mpg around town.
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:Shocked: That must be a lot of dense traffic driving then. :(
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Short trips in heavy traffic. I have seen 5.1 on the highway. The other one is doing better at about 7.1 round town.
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Most recent refill, 7.9 all round town driving. Not yet 2000km on the clock.
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Nothing wrong with that Keith :goodjob: (Although the 1.8 Petrol might be similar)
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Another tank of fuel working out to 8.2l/100km or about 34mpg around town.
That's some really good numbers keith! I got the same car as you (i30 GD diesel + auto) and I live in Sydney metro and I drive through some dense traffic but short trips everyday to work. I'm at 11,000km and my recent tank recorded 9.1L/100km for around 30km/hr. That tank lasted whooping 24days though.
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Yes its not doing a lot of km but the fuel consumption is headed in the right direction. I expect it will improve over time. The Getz (manual) is about the same around town but of course on the highway its a completely different story.
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8.2 for the last tank @ 35km/h average speed. 6.6 when I got home after refilling and resetting the trip computer. I'm still thinking better than 7 is easily achievable around town depending on how its driven. Must observe the main driver...
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I suspect someone's driving it like a petrol engine. Or you spend a lot of time in heavy traffic. :undecided:
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:whsaid:
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Most recent fill, 326 km for 27.01l, 8.2l per 100km. 2700km on the clock now. Eventually I'll graph these numbers but consumption seems fairly consistent for round town driving.
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Most recent fill, 326 km for 27.01l, 8.2l per 100km. 2700km on the clock now. Eventually I'll graph these numbers but consumption seems fairly consistent for round town driving.
Curious, which fuel do you normally use? I personally find shell last longer but BP has more power, but that's based on my feelings.
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Vortex which has up to 10% soybeans according to Caltex.
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Vortex which has up to 10% soybeans according to Caltex.
Have you tried other brands? My i30 hates vortex.. it feels like its burning water, no torque at all!
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Just filled up at the 7-11 (Mobil I believe). 34.25l for 426km. 7.05l/100km, 40mpg. Still headed in the right direction. About 3 weeks between fills.
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:goodjob2: :D
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Filled up today having done 855km with 111km to empty on the trip computer. Filled to the brim putting in 47.10 litres. That gives 5.6 l/100km.
Vehicle is a GD CRDi Auto and has done just over 3000km.
After fillup, the DTE was 790km.
Quite happy with consumption to date. :P
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Bloody hell.
I drink more than that when on auto mode.
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Magnificent figures and probably only going to improve. :goodjob2:
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Filled up today having done 855km with 111km to empty on the trip computer. Filled to the brim putting in 47.10 litres. That gives 5.6 l/100km.
Vehicle is a GD CRDi Auto and has done just over 3000km.
After fillup, the DTE was 790km.
Quite happy with consumption to date. :P
:oops: Me bad. Was 48.10 litres - just checked the docket.
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:lol: Always trying to gild the lilly, yeah, we know. :rofl:
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Filled up today having done 855km with 111km to empty on the trip computer. Filled to the brim putting in 47.10 litres. That gives 5.6 l/100km.
Vehicle is a GD CRDi Auto and has done just over 3000km.
After fillup, the DTE was 790km.
Quite happy with consumption to date. :P
Wow, what was your average speed? That just seem like humanly impossible for an auto! 48L just did me 600km this week.. though my average is 25km/hr.
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Filled up today having done 855km with 111km to empty on the trip computer. Filled to the brim putting in 47.10 litres. That gives 5.6 l/100km.
Vehicle is a GD CRDi Auto and has done just over 3000km.
After fillup, the DTE was 790km.
Quite happy with consumption to date. :P
Wow, what was your average speed? That just seem like humanly impossible for an auto! 48L just did me 600km this week.. though my average is 25km/hr.
The average was just over 70kph.
On the way home, about 65km, I sat on 90kph (on speedo) using cruise and managed 4.8 lph on trip computer which would be 5.0 allowing for error. The average was almost 80kph on trip computer.
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Latest fill, 33.08l for 480km 6.89, 41mpg. Again all round town driving. Using Shell fuel now, can't say I can tell from the seat of the pants-o-meter if its any better for performance. In any case, fuel consumption continues to improve as expected.
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Appreciate its an old thread now but I've been maintaining an overall average of 6.7l/100 comprising of mostly round town driving. I'm over the obsession of how low can you go (about 4.8) and now fill up once a month whether the car needs it or not. Huzzah.
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I note that 'Asterix' said they put a 1400kg caravan with car fully loaded and can climb the mountains... WOW!? I tow my 420kg~ boat/trailer combo on the back of my car and I can certainly notice it in both acceleration and stopping abilities. Id hate to put on three times that weight behind the car lol!!! I tend to hold the years longer and shift down well prematurely than normal when going up hill etc with the boat on the back. My car (a 2011 1.6L CRDi I30 MANUAL) goes very well with the trailer and boat but I never have considered my car to be a real tower......
OH!! and talking about fuel economy ... I just drove 600km return with the trailer boat on and it only killed my economy by 1.5l/100 which is fine.. I was sitting at the high 6's where I normally would get about 5.2l/100 highway/city combined.
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With 1400 Kgs, I'm sure it's noticeable for Asterix as well. 420 kg is 4 or 5 extra people so I think we'd all notice a weight increase like that. However, the best indication of how your car deals with the weight is in the l/100 figure, which you say is still quite respectable. I'd be very happy with that figure too.
BTW, note the topic title. :whistler:
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Now that we are a Little bit off topic :mrgreen:
Yes it's noticeable. On our 3400 km summertrips we normally do 9,1-9,7 /100 km depending on wind and speed.
It's not that much the 1400 kg, but more the drag that increases the fuel consumption. My caravan have a huge front area, your boat is much more aero dynamic, thus the slightly increase in your economy.
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Just thought i'd add to the discussion. My 08 Diesel auto crdi with 80,000km on the clock consistently gets around 7.2l/100km as per the trip meter (not manually worked out). Just to and from work 60km driving but not overly start/stop. To be honest I expected better for a diesel but it's not too bad.
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Yep those figures are about as good as can be expected from the auto. This box is only 4 speed like ours, but I find it pleasant to drive. To get into the high 4's, you need a manual gearbox and I don't want one of those.
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I've now had my i30 tourer for just over 2 months (crdi manual). The last two tanks I've averaged 5.0l/100km on the trip computer (seems to be 5.1-5.2 in real life), and after fillingg up Monday morning am currently averaging 4.5l/100km after some easy runs to the office and back.
That said, I drive fairly gently and don't have many hills to deal with.
After two months and 3000km I am still extremely pleased with this car.
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Still running 5.4 after one month and 5500km. Hope my numbers keep going down. :victory:
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I've had my auto CRDi tourer for a month now and is at 2400kms. Just did a Sydney-Newcastle run and the guage varied between 4.9 and 5.1l/100kms. Filled it up at 606kms and it took 36.01 litres giving an average of about 5.9l/100kms for the tank which included 240kms of around town driving. Happy with that. Roof bars and style visors are fitted too, not sure if they effect consumption
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Latest fill, 33.08l for 480km 6.89, 41mpg. Again all round town driving. Using Shell fuel now, can't say I can tell from the seat of the pants-o-meter if its any better for performance. In any case, fuel consumption continues to improve as expected.
Hi Keith, what is special about Shell Diesel? i just thought it was normal truck diesel? when i've used Shell my diesel's don't feel any different but on BP Ultimate they start to feel smoother after runing about 200k same with caltex vortex Diesel but have never noticed an economy gain they all seem to get same economy. i mostly use mobile truck diesel as i only get that or Shell where i am & mobile is 10 cents cheaper per L, my friend did 850,000k on a MB Sprinter van 2,2 common rail diesel never had to service or replace injectors or fuel pump never used injection cleaner & only used mobile diesel as it was cheaper. but he sold it at 850,000k & it needed new injectors then.
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Just filled up my CRDI for the fifth time since new. Latest consumption figure was best yet at 5.6l/100km for a mix of city short trips, peak hour driving and 140 km round trip weekly drives to the country to visit dad. First time I have registered under 6, so very happy. Done 2750 Km so far.
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:goodjob2:
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Good on ya Bushy! :goodjob2:
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After a gentle run down the highway on the weekend saw 4.6. Normally we see about 7.9 round town. This is on the Caltex soy bean enhanced diesel. No complaints here although I do catch the odd whiff of tofu from time to time.
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Latest fill, 33.08l for 480km 6.89, 41mpg. Again all round town driving. Using Shell fuel now, can't say I can tell from the seat of the pants-o-meter if its any better for performance. In any case, fuel consumption continues to improve as expected.
Hi Keith, what is special about Shell Diesel? i just thought it was normal truck diesel? when i've used Shell my diesel's don't feel any different but on BP Ultimate they start to feel smoother after runing about 200k same with caltex vortex Diesel but have never noticed an economy gain they all seem to get same economy. i mostly use mobile truck diesel as i only get that or Shell where i am & mobile is 10 cents cheaper per L, my friend did 850,000k on a MB Sprinter van 2,2 common rail diesel never had to service or replace injectors or fuel pump never used injection cleaner & only used mobile diesel as it was cheaper. but he sold it at 850,000k & it needed new injectors then.
According to the MSDS Caltex has beans, its up to 10% biodiesel. Shell has none.
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I note that 'Asterix' said they put a 1400kg caravan with car fully loaded and can climb the mountains... WOW!? I tow my 420kg~ boat/trailer combo on the back of my car and I can certainly notice it in both acceleration and stopping abilities. Id hate to put on three times that weight behind the car lol!!! I tend to hold the years longer and shift down well prematurely than normal when going up hill etc with the boat on the back. My car (a 2011 1.6L CRDi I30 MANUAL) goes very well with the trailer and boat but I never have considered my car to be a real tower......
OH!! and talking about fuel economy ... I just drove 600km return with the trailer boat on and it only killed my economy by 1.5l/100 which is fine.. I was sitting at the high 6's where I normally would get about 5.2l/100 highway/city combined.
I used to tow a 8X5 trailer with my first i30 CRDi 5 speed manual i had two big motor bikes on the trailer & a lot of gear , it would hold 5th gear with Cruise Control set at 110KPH up & down hill's impressed me. but economy was not as good as normal but never had a trip Computer on that one. the one i have now no town bar & not putting one on as saw all the support for the plastic rear bumper needs to be removed so will leave it.
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Latest fill, 33.08l for 480km 6.89, 41mpg. Again all round town driving. Using Shell fuel now, can't say I can tell from the seat of the pants-o-meter if its any better for performance. In any case, fuel consumption continues to improve as expected.
Hi Keith, what is special about Shell Diesel? i just thought it was normal truck diesel? when i've used Shell my diesel's don't feel any different but on BP Ultimate they start to feel smoother after runing about 200k same with caltex vortex Diesel but have never noticed an economy gain they all seem to get same economy. i mostly use mobile truck diesel as i only get that or Shell where i am & mobile is 10 cents cheaper per L, my friend did 850,000k on a MB Sprinter van 2,2 common rail diesel never had to service or replace injectors or fuel pump never used injection cleaner & only used mobile diesel as it was cheaper. but he sold it at 850,000k & it needed new injectors then.
According to the MSDS Caltex has beans, its up to 10% biodiesel. Shell has none.
I thought they had to carry a warning if they were using biodiesel? Given that Hyundai warns against using more than 5% they would be setting themselves up for a claim if something goes wrong. The servo down the road carries warnings that they may contain 10% biodiesel and thats why I don't fill up there.
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Fill up with Caltex Bio B5 Diesel or Caltex Bio B20 Diesel - Diesel enhanced with biodiesel
Caltex produces a range of biodiesel blends.
'Neat' or straight biodiesel is a diesel replacement fuel made from non-fossil fuel sources that can be mixed with ordinary diesel in any proportion.
Biodiesel is manufactured in Australia mostly from used cooking oil and animal fats (tallow). Caltex blends biodiesel with standard extra-low-sulfur petroleum diesel to create Bio B5 Diesel, a diesel/biodiesel mixture containing 5% biodiesel, and Bio B20 Diesel, a mixture containing 20% biodiesel.
These products, available only to commercial customers, are drop-in substitutes for regular diesel that can play a significant role in reducing greenhouse gas emissions and assist in providing long-term solutions to climate change.
Bio B5 Diesel and Bio B20 Diesel are available for commercial sale from our Sydney, Newcastle, Adelaide terminals and our Rocklea depot in Brisbane. While Bio B5 Diesel is the most widely used blend of its kind on the market, demand for B20 is growing rapidly because it further enhances the benefits associated with biodiesel usage.
All vehicles or machinery that normally run on automotive diesel can use Bio B5 Diesel with no engine modifications. The Australian Diesel Standard specifies an allowance of up to 5% biodiesel content.
http://www.caltex.com.au/ProductsAndServices/Pages/BioFuels.aspx (http://www.caltex.com.au/ProductsAndServices/Pages/BioFuels.aspx)
I am contacting Caltex to see whats in Vortex. I'll keep you posted.
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Certainly sounds like there's no bio in our normal run of the mill diesel then... :goodjob:
Here's hoping you hear back from Caltex confirming this...
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:whsaid:
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From Caltex via an email enquiry:
In addition to a straight diesel fraction, Vortex diesel's formulation allows for components such as lubricity additives, fuel system cleaner, defoamant, wax and up to 5.0% bio-component (FAME - Fatty Acid Methyl Ester) as per the attached sales specification (this means 4.9999r - etc.) when the level actually reaches 5.0%, the product must be sold as B5 Diesel).. Typically, and depending upon the availability of bio diesel, premium diesels contain approximately 2% bio diesel.
There was a detailed technical specification attached to the email as well. It doesn't really add anything to the discussion.
Here endeth the mystery. Essentially a variable component of between 2 and 4.999% is biodiesel. If its 5% it needs to be sold as B5. Whether its beans or not is not stated. In Malaysia for example, i noted their FAME is palm oil based. However msds for some diesel products do indicate beans specifically.