The Original i30 Owners Club
GOT PROBLEMS OR ISSUES? => PETROL => Topic started by: Misskaty on January 22, 2013, 00:52:08
-
Hi, I wonder if anyone can give me any advice or suggestions.
I have an 18 month old i30 1.4 classic and, a few weeks ago, I applied the brakes at a junction and the car didn't stop until I released the brake and pressed it a second time! There was a noise of metal scraping on metal as if something was spinning and scraping on each revolution (if that makes sense; it's hard to describe).
I had the brakes checked by a local mechanic who said all was in good order so, to be honest, I thought it was a one off and forgot about it.
Then, last week, the same thing happened on my way to work, but this time the brakes didn't work on the second attempt and the car didn't stop when I tried to give way on a narrow road. Again, it was the same metal scraping noise. It was pure chance I didn't hit oncoming traffic. I carried on to work and the brakes were fine the rest of the way, but it happened once again on the way home.
I called the local Hyundai garage and the car was collected by RAC and taken to the dealer, who had it for 5 days and then called me to say there is nothing wrong with the brakes! They said they could not replicate the problem and all the testing concluded that the brakes are in good order and there is no problem.
How can there be no problem when the brakes have failed to work on 4 occasions?
The somewhat condescending mechanic suggested I may have been sliding on ice. I have been driving for more years than I care to mention and I know the difference between sliding on ice and brakes not working!
I would be very grateful if any one could give me some advice, please.
Many thanks
Katy
-
Welcome to the forum ,
That is a terrible situation for you and sounds very dangerous.
Firstly, I presume that there are no warning lights on your instruments when this happens.
What does the footbrake actually feel like, is it soft, hard or spongy, at all.
Are there any pulsations in the footbrake.
How long since starting the car does this happen.
The only things I can suggest are possibly a stone or ice / water on the disks.
If it was ice / water I would expect your problem to occur when the wheels are cold at start of journey, there would be no evidence on inspection.
If it was a stone, I would expect to see some possible scoring of the disk or some other evidence.
Until this is resolved, I would suggest applying the brakes at the start of each journey to be sure they are working before proceeding too far.
Hopefully other members can help too. :neutral:
-
If you felt a heavy vibration in the brake pedal at the time - it would indicate that the anti-lock system was operating to stop any wheels from locking. It does this by releasing the brake on any wheel that stops rotating and then re-applying the brake again.
I am wondering if there may be a fault in the ABS system which is releasing the brakes and not re-applying them again instantly. Was the road slippery at the time ?
-
Welcome to the forum Katy. :)
I hope you're able to sort that problem out quickly as it is obviously dangerous.
I have no suggestions unfortunately, but others will add to what Alan & Phil have already suggested.
-
Welcome katy,
It is a real worry.. Nothing worse than being told nothing is wrong when clearly there is a problem. :undecided:
Maybe you should contact Hyundai UK and insist this gets further investigation. You must be terrified to drive it :sweating:
As Phil says is the pedal going to the floor or does it just feel dead??
-
Thinking more about this problem, it appears that the grinding sound will only be present if the hydraulics are actually working, so we can rule out that side of things, so the main question is what is the grinding and lack of braking response.
-
Once again we're hearing of "experts" reporting the result of their cursory examination as "no fault found", when they should listen to the customer who spends far more time with the car than they ever will, and who knows the car better :disapp:
I think I'll ask a top Hy Tekky to come in and look at this thread...
-
Once again we're hearing of "experts" reporting the result of their cursory examination as "no fault found", when they should listen to the customer who spends far more time with the car than they ever will, and who knows the car better :disapp:
Whilst I am the first to sink the boot into dealers, 5 days is hardly a cursory examination.
It would be interesting to know the exact circumstances surrounding each occurrence, where the car was parked before and exactly what happened leading up to the fault.
The fact that the braking system has returned to performing without fault after the incident is also interesting.
-
Having a car for 5 days doesn't necessarily mean they spent 5 days looking at it. If there's any hint of a possible seizure they'd probably leave it dormant for 3 days and then try driving it a short distance.
That said, "The somewhat condescending mechanic suggested I may have been sliding on ice." supports my postulation that they did not trust this customer to confer an accurate description of the circumstances in which the issue arose.
-
in a real world i would have thought the dealership would have driven the car too and from [by either service dept manager or mechanic]each morning/afternoon too try and replicate the fault. :idea: :disapp:
-
Living in snow and severe cold, has anyone ever had an issue like this with their brakes at all?
-
I applied the brakes at a junction and the car didn't stop until I released the brake and pressed it a second time!
Very interesting.....................
I had a similar experience a few months ago.
I was doing a 3 point turn.
Moved the car into the middle of the road, pressed brake and it didn't stop and carried on and I just glided and hit the kerb on otherside.
I put this down to not pressing brake hard enough but thinking back I think I nearly pushed the pedal through the floor.
dry road, sunny, no rain, no ice, no snow...
I'd be interested in any thoughts......
-
Surely this was worth mentioning, at the time. :exclaim:
That's pretty scary, what if it was an intersection with a semi coming at you :scared:
-
Not too big a problem if it's only a semi coming at you - so said the actress to the bishop
-
:groan:
i changed my wording from "bearing down" to "coming at" for this very reason, still didn't work. :rofl:
-
MK.
I suspect that the Anti lock braking system was cutting in for some reason IF the brakes are ok as two garages have stated. How many miles has the vehicle done.
-
Hi Katy
Welcome to the forum.
Living in snow and severe cold, has anyone ever had an issue like this with their brakes at all?
No :exclaim:
As Phil mentioned earlier, water or spray on the discs could be the problem, that would explain the brakes working properly the rest of the journey, but then it should happen the first time she brakes, or after a long straight run on wet or moist roads. I don't know if that's the case.. :question:
...but that still doesn't explain the sound of metal... :undecided:
-
The chatter of the ABS could sound strange if you are not used to it.
-
The chatter of the ABS could sound strange if you are not used to it.
Is that so, I've never experienced ABS in action, thankfully.
Is there any advantage in trying ABS / ESP from a driver experience point of view.
I distinctly remember you mentioning that "all hell broke loose" when you demo'd these capabilities in the new model.
-
Thank you to everybody who has posted a response here and for all the welcome messages; the comments are all really useful and it's good to know that people do believe there is a problem!
I collected the car from the garage this evening; the mechanic seems to be convinced it is 'the abs kicking in' and not a fault. I asked about the grinding noise and he said that all cars make that noise when the abs is working. I said I have never experienced a noise like that before and he repeated that all cars do it. His explanation for the brakes not working is 'the car will not stop on ice even with abs'. I said again that I was not on ice and he clearly did not believe me. I drove the car home - about 20 miles - leaving an extra long stopping distance (!) and have to say the brakes worked perfectly but I am still very nervous that it may happen again.
In answer to the questions raised - the car has done just under 20000 miles. The brakes don't feel any different when the problem happens; no harder or softer and they don't go to the floor, although I do instinctively push harder when the car doesn't stop. It is parked overnight on a gravel drive or at work on a hard standing and the problem seems to happen after about 3 miles of driving on semi-rural roads, each time when driving at under 30mph in cold but not wet, snowy or icy weather.
Thank you again for all the helpful comments; I hope there is a solution as I don't want to be afraid to drive my i30!
-
The chatter of the ABS could sound strange if you are not used to it.
Is that so, I've never experienced ABS in action, thankfully.
Is there any advantage in trying ABS / ESP from a driver experience point of view.
I distinctly remember you mentioning that "all hell broke loose" when you demo'd these capabilities in the new model.
Phil, I've always advised my kids to test their car's ABS whenever they get a new one.
Obviously somehwhere safe, no traffic and a wet smooth, level road. Just jump on the brakes hard enough to lock up the wheels. The ABS will kick in and it feels like the pedal is trying to push back up into your foot. And the noise is scary.
I've suggested the same to a few customers over the years as there were cases where the violence of the ABS action scared drivers so much they took their foot off the brake, with disastrous consequences.
One elderly lady came back and thanked me. She agreed, had she experienced it in an emergency she would have panicked.
-
I had a recent experience that I didn't think relative to this thread but on reflection it might be. I was braking very lightly in a parking manoeuvre and I heard a scraping noise from the front and the brakes appeared to let go. It initially surprised me but it lasted for less than a second and I simply suspected that I'd run over some loose stones or similar and I had a wheel or two lock.
I put the noise down to the stones or whatever scraping on the ground and the odd braking feel down to ABS trying to do its thing and thought nothing more of it. FWIW.
-
Thanks Surferdude, just what I wanted to know :goodjob2:
-
I had a recent experience that I didn't think relative to this thread but on reflection it might be. I was braking very lightly in a parking manoeuvre and I heard a scraping noise from the front and the brakes appeared to let go. It initially surprised me but it lasted for less than a second and I simply suspected that I'd run over some loose stones or similar and I had a wheel or two lock.
I put the noise down to the stones or whatever scraping on the ground and the odd braking feel down to ABS trying to do its thing and thought nothing more of it. FWIW.
"Forgot where I was"...? Does it matter where you were?................ :whistler:
-
"Forgot where I was"...? Does it matter where you were?................ :whistler:
Probably more appropriate most of the time, for what it's worth.
-
I have an 18 month old i30 1.4 classic ...
I don't suppose there's a button in the cabin near your right knee that disables ESP ("ESP OFF") is there?
-
I have an 18 month old i30 1.4 classic ...
I don't suppose there's a button in the cabin near your right knee that disables ESP ("ESP OFF") is there?
Are you implying that if you turn off ESP, it will disable ABS?
I don't think there is a way of turning off or disabling ABS. Or am I not understanding what your getting at Shambles?
-
Errmm.. you've got me thinking now. I know it turns off the EBD (brake distribution) but does it disable the ABS? I'll try this next time I get a chance.
-
Errmm.. you've got me thinking now. I know it turns off the EBD (brake distribution) but does it disable the ABS? I'll try this next time I get a chance.
Don't think you can disable the ABS.
-
Errmm.. you've got me thinking now. I know it turns off the EBD (brake distribution) but does it disable the ABS? I'll try this next time I get a chance.
Don't think you can disable the ABS.
remove fuse but would be MOT failure in UK?
-
My mistake - I was probably
drinking thinking about traction control...
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/i30OwnersClub/CAP000016_zps1feb06b9.png)
-
My mistake - I was probably drinking thinking about traction control...
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/i30OwnersClub/CAP000016_zps1feb06b9.png)
Geez Steve .. Colouring in your owners manual like that might devalue your car... :lol: :winker:
-
^-- Gee I didn't consider that :-[
I actually coloured the screen, so it's easier to wipe off with some spare spit that Alan keeps in his car :rofl:
-
:brilliant:
-
I collected the car from the garage this evening; the mechanic seems to be convinced it is 'the abs kicking in' and not a fault. I asked about the grinding noise and he said that all cars make that noise when the abs is working. I said I have never experienced a noise like that before and he repeated that all cars do it. His explanation for the brakes not working is 'the car will not stop on ice even with abs'.
Hi Katy.
To prove his statement, you should take your car to a place where you can try out the ABS function.
Find a road or big parking lot where you can get the car to 30 mph and then press the brake pedal as hard as you can and don't stop doing that until the car stop moving.
If he is right, you should experience exactly the same as you did on the road. Same noise and same behaviour.
You need, ALL drivers need, to know how the ABS works, so they don't panic when the day comes they need it.
-
Good advice, I must take it.
Question,
Does a car stop in a shorter distance with ABS as compared to an experienced driver that locks the brakes, but regains control by reducing brake pressure. :question:
-
One from my previous work was a race car driver in DTC (Danish Touringcar Championship) and these guys would tell you that they at any time could brake at shorter distance without ABS.
I think they're right.
They can keep max pressure all the time, where the ABS change the pressure constantly.
-
Phil, before I left Goodyear we did some tyre testing at Winton Motor Raceway in Victoria in conjunction with Ford Australia development engineers using among other cars, an XR8 test hack which Ford used to try different things. They could activate and deactivate the ABS at will for testing purposes.
Whether wet or dry, non ABS pulled up more quickly.
But here's the qualifier. When you are testing, or racing, you are totally alert at all times and when you go for the brakes, you generally KNOW you're going for the brakes so you are mentally prepared for applying just the right amount of pressure and totally alert to the need to ease off slightly as the wheels start to lock up.
On the road, in traffic, things which happen are unplanned and no matter how "alert" you may think you are, it's not the same.
So, in my opinion, ABS is a safer option on a road car and most likely will pull you up more quickly.
Which doesn't mean yuo can allow yourself to get too close to the car in front. :disapp:
-
Well put Trev,
Yes, testing is an entirely different ball game. As we can't turn ABS off, it is still theoretically possible to stop shorter than ABS would in an ABS fitted car, by maintaining the correct pedal pressure and thus not activating the ABS.
Question 2
Assuming an unexpected obstacle appears on the road and you react by hitting the brakes and ABS activates, is it better to let ABS do it's thing or try to get control back and what does it take to get that control.
-
In my experience, just the same as in a car without ABS. Gently ease of the pedal until the ABS stops chattering and then maintain as heavy a pressure as you can without locking up again. It takes practice and each car is different.
-
My understanding of ABS is that it releases the brake pressure and then reapplies it over many times in a second to stop the wheels from locking up. It does this much faster than a human being could. So if the ABS does start to operate in a situation, then let the ABS continue it's job. ABS combined with ESP should (repeat, SHOULD) enable you to control the car while decelerating with your foot firmly on the brake.
To regain control of the car in this case you would have to release brake pressure (which would stop the braking effectiveness) and then reapply a little less pressure (therefore you aren't braking as hard). Trev will hopefully provide some better input and understanding of the system if I am either wrong or right.
My opinion is that if ABS is used to stop a 100 ton aircraft fully laden with fare paying passengers on a wet runway from 300+ km/h to stop, then it is good enough for me.
-
Which is why I asked the question, to regain control requires less or no braking briefly and I wanted to know which is the better option. I haven't ever had to use it, so I honestly don't know. If it means avoiding a child or animal, well :exclaim:
Adding to this, Trev's previous response about the difference between surprise and testing, it would probably be best to stay with ABS, in accordance with your response too.
-
What you say seems right to me fatboy, it's just that in practice the chattering, noise and pulsating brake pedal put people off if they're not used to it.
And in answer to Phils' last question, that's a call which has to be made by the driver, in an instant.
-
I'm in agreement with what Jamie said....
You're better off keeping your foot planted and let the ABS do it's job. Easing off the brake and re-applying is just gonna extend your stopping distance.
The beauty of the ABS is that you're still able to steer while braking, great for the average mug like me... :D
-
During police driver training, the ABS is switchable so we can be taught braking with or without it.
For an experienced driver, non-ABS will stop quicker every time, whether on dry or wet bitumen or on gravel, etc.
The issue is, most people aren't taught advanced driving skills so for the majority, ABS is better.
The maximum braking power on a non-ABS car is available just prior to lock up. So when braking in a non-ABS car you have to know when lock up will occur and brake to just short of that, if that makes sense.
If lock up does occur, then you need to release just slightly to unlock and then maintain that braking pressure.
I saw it time and time again that non-ABS would stop in substantially shorter distances with experienced drivers who knew how to brake effectively.
If however, you are using ABS, you need to plant the foot as hard as you can and keep it there, letting the ABS function do its job.
If you ease off the braking pressure in an ABS-equipped car, you will lengthen the braking distance.
And I agree that all drivers need to know what ABS feels like so it is good idea to practice.
And in a car equipped with ABS & ESP it takes practice to get used to the fact that you can keep the foot firmly planted on the brake pedal while it is "chattering" away and steer to avoid obstacles at the same time.
It is counter-intuitive so requires plenty of practice to get used to.
Knowing how to brake effectively is one of the main reasons why police are able to "stay with" cars that are much more powerful in a high speed pursuit situation, as most people will brake early and in such a way as to destabilize the car.
If you know how to brake and you know your car, you are able to brake much later on approach to, say, an intersection and then apply maximum braking without locking up.
So what they might gain on the straights, the baddies lose on the corners. :D
Much the same as race car drivers will maintain maximum momentum as long as they can and brake effectively and for a shorter distance on approach to bends, corners and obstacles.
If you get to the point of lock-up, then you don't have braking control. The car is just skidding and braking distances increase.
-
I am pretty much aware of the maximum braking just b4 lock up and all that stuff, but a novice when it come to ABS. This is the first ABS car we've owned.
I learnt something today, :thanx: everyone :goodjob2:
-
I've learnt something today...
Me too. I expected ABS would always be better because it can control each wheel independently. I've not had ABS before either. Nice to know that all learned braking experience from before will still hold up in an emergency, assuming you don't panic if ABS does intervene.
-
I agree Pip, the thing is, I more than likely would have reacted to the sound of the ABS before today. I'll try it in 6 months time,,,, when it rains.
-
I agree Pip, the thing is, I more than likely would have reacted to the sound of the ABS before today. I'll try it in 6 months time,,,, when it rains.
Or find a gravel road or car park Phil and have a play, with steering wheel held straight plus turning whilst braking.
It can be fun. :)
-
The problem out on a public road (as opposed to a test track) is that there is likely to be sudden changes in the road surface in the path of the car and differences in texture, potholes, wetness, ice etc on each side of the car.
Even an expert driver will find it impossible to apply the optimum braking force to each wheel individually, and maintaining a constant force on the pedal will of course not take into account sudden variations in road surface.
This is what ABS does - it monitors the skid threshold of each wheel separately and ensures that the average driver in an emergency gets the maximum brake efficiency.
The new 2012 i30 has an Emergency Brake Assist which applies maximum braking when it detects an emergency braking situation. It responds to a sudden and hard application of the brakes by the driver – who might then not apply enough foot pressure on the brake pedal for maximum braking. The car also has Vehicle Stability Management which is linked into the ABS, ESC and the steering system to achieve maximum stability under emergency situations when, for example, there are differences in the coefficient of friction between one side of the car and the other.
I was fortunate to have attended the pre-launch demo at Silverstone and be given the opportunity of testing these systems under extreme conditions. After that experience I am content to put more trust in the car than in myself being able to react optimally in a sudden emergency.
-
This is what ABS does - it monitors the skid threshold of each wheel separately and ensures that the average driver in an emergency gets the maximum brake efficiency.
... when coupled with the EBD* system.
* Electronic Brakeforce Distribution
-
Do we all have EBD, I thought EBD meant Enormous Big Deal :whistler:
-
Even an expert driver will find it impossible to apply the optimum braking force to each wheel individually, and maintaining a constant force on the pedal will of course not take into account sudden variations in road surface.
I hear what you're saying but I don't agree with that.
This is what ABS does - it monitors the skid threshold of each wheel separately and ensures that the average driver in an emergency gets the maximum brake efficiency.
I agree with that bit.
I was fortunate to have attended the pre-launch demo at Silverstone and be given the opportunity of testing these systems under extreme conditions. After that experience I am content to put more trust in the car than in myself being able to react optimally in a sudden emergency.
I was invited by Holden to a drive day with a range of their new cars at Barbagallo Raceway where we caned the cars with traction control on and off and were able to undertake some quite violent driving manouvres which demonstrated the effectiveness of ABS, EBD & ESP.
They are great advancements in vehicle safety and good systems to have.
But when they were switched off and people were told to do certain things (like violently turn the steering wheel at speed), they lost control of the car. Myself and one other person there (plus Holden's instructors) did not. We had some nice power slides though. :D
In fact one of the instructors came up and asked me who I worked for after the event. :lol:
I say that to highlight the fact that training is a good thing, whether using safety systems or not but for most people, most of the time I believe they are a good thing.
The thing that stuck in my mind from that day was that all of those brand new cars that copped a real caning that day would have been prepared and on-sold to unsuspecting buyers as "factory demos." :scared: I wouldn't want one.
-
I would recommend doing a "Defensive Driving Course" if for no other reason than to find out how your car performs with ABS & ESP. :goodjob:
I did one a couple of years back and it was worth every cent....
-
:agreed:
-
I would recommend doing a "Defensive Driving Course" if for no other reason than to find out how your car performs with ABS & ESP. :goodjob:
I did one a couple of years back and it was worth every cent....
If it only cost a few cents I would do one too :whistler: :goodjob:
-
Only cost me 9,900 cents, Daz.... :happydance:
-
That is pretty good :goodjob: I better start saving .. or apply for a loan :lol:
-
That is pretty good :goodjob: I better start saving .. or apply for a loan :lol:
:Yeah: :rolleyes:
We all know you're loaded Dazz, living in that mansion. :lol:
Are you sure you aren't related to Princess Mary of Tasmania?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_Crown_Princess_of_Denmark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_Crown_Princess_of_Denmark)
-
We all know you're loaded Dazz, living in that mansion. :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
-
That is pretty good :goodjob: I better start saving .. or apply for a loan :lol:
:Yeah: :rolleyes:
We all know you're loaded Dazz, living in that mansion. :lol:
Are you sure you aren't related to Princess Mary of Tasmania?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_Crown_Princess_of_Denmark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_Crown_Princess_of_Denmark)
They're both Tasmanian :whistler:
Danish funding for the extra 10 panels, must've been in their budget.
-
That is pretty good :goodjob: I better start saving .. or apply for a loan :lol:
:Yeah: :rolleyes:
We all know you're loaded Dazz, living in that mansion. :lol:
Are you sure you aren't related to Princess Mary of Tasmania?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_Crown_Princess_of_Denmark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_Crown_Princess_of_Denmark)
Having met Dazz - there is NO WAY he's related to Crown Prince Mary. :whistler:
-
When working at the VW dealer some years ago, we had a fun day at a closed area for learner drivers.
We had, among other things, a brake contest.
My boss had a allmost new 2002 VW Passat 2.8 V6 193 HP 4WD, with ABS of course.
I had a very much used 1983 VW passat 1,9 with no ABS :snigger:
We did drive side by side doing 80 km/h then brake to full stop.
All 3 times I stopped at shorter distance than he could with the ABS in his new car with very big brakes compared to mine, but of course, his car was heavier than mine, but anyway.
-
That is pretty good :goodjob: I better start saving .. or apply for a loan :lol:
:Yeah: :rolleyes:
We all know you're loaded Dazz, living in that mansion. :lol:
Are you sure you aren't related to Princess Mary of Tasmania?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_Crown_Princess_of_Denmark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_Crown_Princess_of_Denmark)
I wouldn't mind having relations with her .. :whistler: (If I wasn't married of course)
Back on topic.. That was interesting Asterix :goodjob:
-
Want to experience your i30's ABS & ESP in a safe environment? :goodjob:
http://www.adrenalin.com.au/defensive-driving-courses/?gclid=CPn1ks7Jg7UCFQlgpQodlnkAwA (http://www.adrenalin.com.au/defensive-driving-courses/?gclid=CPn1ks7Jg7UCFQlgpQodlnkAwA)
-
Want to experience your i30's ABS & ESP in a safe environment? :goodjob:
http://www.adrenalin.com.au/defensive-driving-courses/?gclid=CPn1ks7Jg7UCFQlgpQodlnkAwA (http://www.adrenalin.com.au/defensive-driving-courses/?gclid=CPn1ks7Jg7UCFQlgpQodlnkAwA)
From 14900 cents + airfares :eek: (I think I'll just find a quiet back road) Tugrah Road should do the trick :lol:
-
From 14900 cents + airfares :eek:
Airfares, Daz? :whistler:
-
To what extent do all i30s have the same brakes and potentially we are all affected by the original post of this thread, or do they vary significantly between model years, markets and specifications? My Czech made 2009.5 1.6 u2 crdi UK Comfort has ABS/EBD/EBA/ESP and traction control (but not hill start assist). My understanding of ABS is that its main advantage is that it Allows Braking and Steering rather than reducing stopping distances and should therefore help avoid collisions in the real world unless the driver is suffering from target fixation and drives straight at what they are trying to avoid.
I wonder also if motorcycling experience makes for better drivers in dodgy situations.