i30 Owners Club
GENERAL STUFF => GENERAL DISCUSSIONS => Random Chit Chat => Topic started by: rustynutz on May 09, 2013, 02:11:03
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Yet another anti-motorcycle rant from that "quality" rag, the Herald Sun...
:link: (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/time-to-get-their-number/story-e6frfhqf-1226635592360)
To put it bluntly, what a load of frog shit.... :fum:
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If this is true Rusty..
"That's because the law does not require motorbikes to have front number plates.
As reported in today's Herald Sun, almost 20,000 riders have escaped at least $4 million in fines and 25,000 demerit points in the past three years."
Why would you have a problem with it?
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It is obvious that this clown doesn't have a clue... :head_butt:
If riders break the law, I have no issue with them getting nabbed but I do suspect these quoted figures have been fudged to sensationalise just like many others are.
Motorcycles in Australia haven't required front number plates in over 30 years, well before the introduction of speed cameras.These fools didn't take motorcycles into account with these cameras, so they are now wanting to make motorcyclists pay for their own lack of foresight.
Number plates were removed mainly for safety reasons. Other countries don't require number plates so motorcycles are not designed for them.
VicRoads even spent 5 years and $420,000 to find that there is no satisfactory way of fixing registration plates to the front of a motorcycle.
Yet every couple of years some bright spark wants to reintroduce them, supposedly for "safety reasons" (read revenue raising.)
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The excuse for not displaying a front number plate is that it affects the aerodynamics of the bike and could cause an accident.
Not at legal road speeds it won't.
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Seems the "experts" beg to differ, Trev....
But, that is just one of a number of issues with fitting plates....
And besides the problem of attachment you've also got to remember that Australia is supposedly trying to pull their rules and regs into line with other Countries so fitting front number plates flies in the face of that when other countries don't have front number plates on motorcycles.
Instead of pushing this "agenda" wouldn't it be so much simpler for them to just use speed cameras that take happy snaps from the rear?
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I suppose this leads to another conclusion...."If it s good for the goose , its good for the gander"........basically saying if a motor bike rider can't be booked , why should a motor car driver......
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I think this is the biggest whinge by car drivers, Neptune....People really need to lose the "motorcycles should be treated the same as cars" mentality. They are 2 completely different vehicles which is why there are different rules for different road users.
The facts are that motorcycles have not been required to display a front number plate for over 30 years, well before speed cameras were introduced.
All motor vehicles are required to display a rear number plate so logic would say that you would only deploy speed cameras that took photos of the rear of any vehicle.....simple. The fact that not all the cameras do that is not the motorcyclists fault but now our bureaucrats want to cover up their stuff up and somehow make motorcyclists responsible.
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Whilst there are variations to the rules for different classification of vehicles on roads in the UK, and therefore I assume other countries, surely the basis on which these variations are identical and therefore the argument of equality MUST come into play?
If the rule is that all motor vehicles must show a plate from the rear, then all car owners should legally be able to remove their front plates, thus making them equal to their motor cycle riding brethren.
The very idea that the same people who use the same roads can get away with infringements is just ridiculous, in the UK speed cameras take the photo from behind, not that I believe in cameras as a safety device, people (buses, trucks, cars and motorbikes) simply race up to them, brake hard, go through the zone then zoom away, bloody useless things!
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Front number plates were removed for a reason. One was that the sharp edges were a danger to pedestrians.
Obviously with a number plate bolted to the front of a car there is very little of the plate exposed compared to a motorcycle so much less danger to a pedestrian.
For some reason there doesn't seem to be an issue with motorcyclists escaping being fined in other Countries, if there is, I'm yet to hear of it. Perhaps it's because they use speed cameras that take photos of the rear of vehicles? :exclaim: :rolleyes: :head_butt:
Seems everyone is missing the obvious solution and are just concentrating on "if it's good enough for car drivers then it's good enough for motorcyclists" theory..... :head_butt:
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............... in the UK speed cameras take the photo from behind, not that I believe in cameras as a safety device, people (buses, trucks, cars and motorbikes) simply race up to them, brake hard, go through the zone then zoom away, bloody useless things!
There are four types of speed cameras in common use in the UK.
GATSO
These are the most common camera in use in the UK. They are rear-facing with a high intensity flash. They take their readings and photos AFTER you drive past them.
TRUVELO
Similar to Gatsos but normally forward facing - i.e. your picture is taken as you approach. Truvelo's use infra red so they won't blind you and therefore can be impossible to tell if you have been caught. Only a small number of Truvelo cameras are mounted rear-facing.
REDSPEED
These are rear facing post mounted cameras located at traffic lights to catch vehicles that run a red light. The most modern ones are also equipped to detect speeding when the lights are green.
SPECS
These are normally forward facing cameras mounted on a gantry and work in pairs tracking the registration number of a vehicle to calculate the average speed between each location. Most are installed at major roadworks but their use is spreading slowly into monitoring normal main roads.
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http://news.drive.com.au/drive/bike-news/minister-looks-at-front-number-plates-for-bikes-20110831-1jlpp.html (http://news.drive.com.au/drive/bike-news/minister-looks-at-front-number-plates-for-bikes-20110831-1jlpp.html)
Sounds like a good idea to me. The law abiding motorcyclist has nothing to fear.
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Just a "F-ing" ugly number plate stuck to the front of his motor bike. Remove them from cars as well and everything will be fine. Well no fines actually.
Like many have said, some thoughtless beauracrates weren't on the ball when Australia opted for front facing speed cameras.
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Cars, trucks, buses, motor cycles - all road users. They should obey the same rules. And if a section of one group or another is abusing the system, then I have no problem changing the system to reduce those offences.
To suggest motor cycles are totally different vehicles is invalid. Or would you apply the same philosophy to trucks having the need for a log book and obeying different seped limits under certain circumstances.
The ''damage" done to pedestrians by a sensibly designed front number plate versus the impact damage caused by being slammed into by a few hundred kilos of motor cycle at any speed is negligible. Using that excuse is just a cop out by people who refuse to move with the times.
Road rules, speed limits, road surfaces and vehicle designs, not to mention the number of vehicles on our roads, have all changed dramatically over the last 30 years. Why should we not consider upgrading the regulations as far as number plates are concerned?
So, overseas countries apparently aren't doing it? That argument didn't wash when we were among the first to introduce compulsory helmets for motor and pedal cyclists and compulsory seat belt use for car occupants. Having driven (and been driven) in quite a few other countries, I wouldn't suggest they are necessarily all leaders in the field.
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I remember in W.A. that all motorbikes used to have a front plate and then that requirement was done away with, primarily under the argument that a front number plate has sharp edges and might hurt a pedestrian.
I don't buy it.
Quite some time ago, W.A. police started to put front number plates on police motorbikes in order to set the example, which shows it can be done.
I don't see why all motorbikes shouldn't be required to do the same.
There are different options, such as metal plates, adhesive plates, etc, so really there is no reason why they shouldn't abide by the same rules as everyone else.
As far as speed cameras go, W.A. uses both types - forward and rearward types so it is possible to be photographed from either direction, dependent upon which type of camera is being used at the time.
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http://news.drive.com.au/drive/bike-news/minister-looks-at-front-number-plates-for-bikes-20110831-1jlpp.html (http://news.drive.com.au/drive/bike-news/minister-looks-at-front-number-plates-for-bikes-20110831-1jlpp.html)
Sounds like a good idea to me. The law abiding motorcyclist has nothing to fear.
You do realise front number plates were removed for a reason don't you, Keith?
And not just in Australia, pretty much every other country in the world......
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It would be difficult to do this if there were two number plates to cover. :lol:
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/motorcyclist-obscures-number-plate-as-he-drives-past-speed-camera-at-129kmh/story-e6freoof-1226611822523 (http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/motorcyclist-obscures-number-plate-as-he-drives-past-speed-camera-at-129kmh/story-e6freoof-1226611822523)
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Seems I'm banging my head against a brick wall..... :rolleyes:
You're all arguing as to why we should have front number plates and ignoring the reasons why we now don't have them.
What is the issue? The issue here is that some riders are getting away with speeding because our bureaucrats didn't have enough brains to make sure ALL speed cameras could take happy snaps from the rear.
Update the cameras, problem solved! It's really not rocket science..... :head_butt:
Instead you'd rather endanger the public, make motorcyclists pay to somehow retrofit number plates just so they can be like car drivers....Unbelievable! :lol:
Seems you've even ignored the fact that VicRoads has tried to come up with a workable solution to enable number plates to be fitted and they failed. And this is a mob that wants them!
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W.A. Police succeeded.
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It had occurred to me that number plates can become a thing of the past if modern technologies are used creatively. Simply electronically encrypt the VIN into a chip that can be read as a vehicle passes a sensor. No plates required. Big brother is watching you.
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Rusty it's all very well to suggest "we" are ignoring the reasons for a 30 year old decision.
The article has this to say in closing.............
There can be no valid reason not to have some identification. New technology is likely to solve the problem if full-sized number plates can be proved a risk to a bike's stability.
That is unlikely at legislated speed limits, which tends to prove the point that some motorbike riders want to defy road laws.
Their need for speed makes them dangerous to themselves and other road users.
And regardless of your detrimental comments about the newspaper concerned, I think those closing remarks make perfect sense.
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It had occurred to me that number plates can become a thing of the past if modern technologies are used creatively. Simply electronically encrypt the VIN into a chip that can be read as a vehicle passes a sensor. No plates required. Big brother is watching you.
That is true and will probably happen. :goodjob2:
But it doesn't help when an offence is committed (eg an armed robbery) and there are twenty seven witnesses but no registration number to take.
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It had occurred to me that number plates can become a thing of the past if modern technologies are used creatively. Simply electronically encrypt the VIN into a chip that can be read as a vehicle passes a sensor. No plates required. Big brother is watching you.
That is true and will probably happen. :goodjob2:
But it doesn't help when an offence is committed (eg an armed robbery) and there are twenty seven witnesses but no registration number to take.
That'll be OK Dave.
We'll all have chip readers grafted into our foreheads.
Oh. Wait.
There are those who reckon it's already done.
beep
beep
beep
beep
beep
beep
:happydance:
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Easy solution really. Traffic is monitored and every road intersection can be monitored and thereby authorities can detect who was where when and for how long. Plus a stolen vehicle's where abouts can be discovered. The whole system would also be used for traffic control.
Spooky hey!
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W.A. Police succeeded.
Dave, if it was that easy don't you think they would already be making front plates compulsory? Remember, these plates would need to be adaptable to fit every single type of bike, not just a police motorcycle.
As for the rest, I concede defeat, lets fit front number plates and while we're at it, lets make car drivers wear helmets....hey, if it's good enough for motorcyclists.... :lol: :rofl:
It had occurred to me that number plates can become a thing of the past if modern technologies are used creatively. Simply electronically encrypt the VIN into a chip that can be read as a vehicle passes a sensor. No plates required. Big brother is watching you.
But it doesn't help when an offence is committed (eg an armed robbery) and there are twenty seven witnesses but no registration number to take.
I would've thought that someone committing a robbery would be riding AWAY from witnesses, Dave... :whistler:
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W.A. Police succeeded.
Dave, if it was that easy don't you think they would already be making front plates compulsory? Remember, these plates would need to be adaptable to fit every single type of bike, not just a police motorcycle.
As for the rest, I concede defeat, lets fit front number plates and while we're at it, lets make car drivers wear helmets....hey, if it's good enough for motorcyclists.... :lol: :rofl:
It had occurred to me that number plates can become a thing of the past if modern technologies are used creatively. Simply electronically encrypt the VIN into a chip that can be read as a vehicle passes a sensor. No plates required. Big brother is watching you.
But it doesn't help when an offence is committed (eg an armed robbery) and there are twenty seven witnesses but no registration number to take.
I would've thought that someone committing a robbery would be riding AWAY from witnesses, Dave... :whistler:
Yes, away FROM the scene with witnesses in FRONT of them as they did, Rusty. ;)
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Oh really guys. Most crimes are committed with stolen vehicles often with no or false plates.
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Of course someone on a motorcycle wouldn't think of covering or removing the plates like someone in a car might, hey Dave? :lol:
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As for the rest, I concede defeat, lets fit front number plates and while we're at it, lets make car drivers wear helmets....hey, if it's good enough for motorcyclists.... :lol: :rofl:
Not a problem. I'll go along with that right after they fit 7 air bags to motor cycles. :wink:
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Now you can see how crazy your line of thinking was, hey Trev? :rofl:
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Oh really guys. Most crimes are committed with stolen vehicles often with no or false plates.
Stolen vehicles still need plates so that when the police catch up with the offenders they can charge them with all of the offences they committed.
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Of course someone on a motorcycle wouldn't think of covering or removing the plates like someone in a car might, hey Dave? :lol:
Very rare indeed to cover plates.
As suggested, the big offences are often in stolen cars with original plates on, sometimes, false.
Either way, a line of inquiry to follow.
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They could make it compulsory for riders to have airbags built into their suit.
Imagine a giant ball bouncing around with the rider inside after an accident or the rider morphing into the Michelin man.
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They could make it compulsory for riders to have airbags built into their suit.
Imagine a giant ball bouncing around with the rider inside after an accident or the rider morphing into the Michelin man.
Car drivers could play motorised soccer with them. :lol:
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Maybe a twelve month trial ban on all motorbikes on all roads might work? :D
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If this is what they think is a valid reason.......
Metal number plates were removed from the front of motorcycles more than 25 years ago because they increased injuries suffered during accidents, in particular for pedestrians.
then surely they can make plastic ones that fit different size bikes...just like they have done to cars.......also this leads to another question ......are the injuries from a bike travelling at 60ks worse than the injuries from a car travelling at 60ks.....
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Or are the injuries sustained from a small number plate worse than injuries received from a large motorbike? :undecided:
It makes no sense to me.
If a pedestrian gets hit by a motorbike, I would think that the number plate would be the least of their worries.
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If this is what they think is a valid reason.......
Metal number plates were removed from the front of motorcycles more than 25 years ago because they increased injuries suffered during accidents, in particular for pedestrians.
then surely they can make plastic ones that fit different size bikes...just like they have done to cars.......also this leads to another question ......are the injuries from a bike travelling at 60ks worse than the injuries from a car travelling at 60ks.....
No they're probably not. Which is a point I made above.
But, having said all that, I have to say this has been a great discussion. All respecting others' points of view and a bit of fun along the way.
Well done, us. :goodjob2:
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I'm still smiling.
See:
:)
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:wts:
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Seems I'm banging my head against a brick wall..... :rolleyes:
You're all arguing as to why we should have front number plates and ignoring the reasons why we now don't have them.
What is the issue? The issue here is that some riders are getting away with speeding because our bureaucrats didn't have enough brains to make sure ALL speed cameras could take happy snaps from the rear.
Update the cameras, problem solved! It's really not rocket science..... :head_butt:
Instead you'd rather endanger the public, make motorcyclists pay to somehow retrofit number plates just so they can be like car drivers....Unbelievable! :lol:
Seems you've even ignored the fact that VicRoads has tried to come up with a workable solution to enable number plates to be fitted and they failed. And this is a mob that wants them!
I'm also sure if a pedestrian is struck by a motorbike they are going to pretty messed up whether there is a plate on the front or not. I've found no evidence to support the argument of improved pedestrian safety by removing front number plates anywhere (including academic research of which I could find nada), only emotive rhetoric from both sides of the argument.
http://www.swanninsurance.com.au/communications/134 (http://www.swanninsurance.com.au/communications/134)
http://www.carrsq.qut.edu.au/publications/corporate/motorcycle_safety_fs.pdf (http://www.carrsq.qut.edu.au/publications/corporate/motorcycle_safety_fs.pdf)
http://trid.trb.org/view.aspx?id=747748 (http://trid.trb.org/view.aspx?id=747748) << interesting articles at this site
http://trid.trb.org/view.aspx?id=237959 (http://trid.trb.org/view.aspx?id=237959)
http://trid.trb.org/view.aspx?id=67779 (http://trid.trb.org/view.aspx?id=67779)
Here in Australia we have the australian design rules which dictate what is acceptable in motor vehicles regarding elements including safety. That's how we got seat belts for example. I see no reason why ADR's could not consider the safety aspects of the lethal chainsaw like device formerly attached on the front of a motorbike thus endangering every living thing on the planet and turning into a benign form of motor vehicle identification. Maybe by specifying they are made from plastic for example, are a particular size and compelling bike manufacturers to provide a space for them on the front of new vehicle as these new non lethal number plates are phased in. Just as seat belts were phased in. Its not rocket science and hence why Vic Roads were unsuccessful.
There ya go problem solved. Your welcome.
Oh, and update the cameras. Catch the miscreants coming and going.
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Despite what we think or the ideas we have, you can bet your last dollar authorities will find a way to screw us whether we have two wheels and one plate or four + wheels and two plates.
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I would suggest some might like to do some research on the subject... :whistler:
Here are a few links to get you started.
http://victorianmotorcyclecouncil.org.au/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=22&cntnt01category_id=3&cntnt01returnid=63 (http://victorianmotorcyclecouncil.org.au/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=22&cntnt01category_id=3&cntnt01returnid=63)
http://www.mates.org.au/2009/09/21/front-number-plates-is-the-battle-really-over/ (http://www.mates.org.au/2009/09/21/front-number-plates-is-the-battle-really-over/)
http://www.mccofnsw.org.au/a/33.html (http://www.mccofnsw.org.au/a/33.html)
http://www.swanninsurance.com.au/communications/134 (http://www.swanninsurance.com.au/communications/134)
http://www.bikesales.com.au/news/2009/front-facing-number-plates-16724 (http://www.bikesales.com.au/news/2009/front-facing-number-plates-16724)
http://www.bikepoint.com.au/news-reviews-advice/pdf/12328.aspx?p=%2Fprint.aspx%3FR%3D12328%26AllModules%3D1%26tabID%3D2207674&fn=12328 (http://www.bikepoint.com.au/news-reviews-advice/pdf/12328.aspx?p=%2Fprint.aspx%3FR%3D12328%26AllModules%3D1%26tabID%3D2207674&fn=12328)
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Despite what we think or the ideas we have, you can bet your last dollar authorities will find a way to screw us whether we have two wheels and one plate or four + wheels and two plates.
Couldn't agree more, ouri30...and from what I've seen so far, most are more than happy to just accept what our bureaucrats feed us..... :fum:
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No, they're probably all biased.
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Oh, and update the cameras. Catch the miscreants coming and going.
Yeah, finally someone gets it..... :lol:
No, they're probably all biased.
Unlike most of the car owners on here, hey Dave? :whistler:
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Despite what we think or the ideas we have, you can bet your last dollar authorities will find a way to screw us whether we have two wheels and one plate or four + wheels and two plates.
Couldn't agree more, ouri30...and from what I've seen so far, most are more than happy to just accept what our bureaucrats feed us..... :fum:
Now that's just inferring those of us in favour of the front number plate rule aren't intelligent enough to think for ourselves.
Also, IIRC th eoriginal motor cycle number plate was mounted lengthways on top of the front mudguard. In metal, that could be dangerous. But my bikes had front number plates, mounted crossways below the headlight.
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Here are two...the first one I was bought up with and the second well........now how are they going to hurt you if you have a prang.....I would think the landing after doing the airborne acrobats would hurt the most....
(http://www.s1000rrforum.com/forum/attachments/bmw-s1000rr-general-discussion/7186d1323962478-front-number-plates-motorcycle-b.jpg)
and
(http://liveimages.carsales.com.au/redbook/general/editorial/ge4960602536378082370.jpg?height=285&padcolor=F3F7FC&aspect=FitWithin&width=440)
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then surely they can make plastic ones that fit different size bikes...just like they have done to cars.......
You're forgetting that if front plates were bought in then we'd be out of line with other countries. Do you really believe bike manufacturers are gonna build a different front on a motorcycle just for our miniscule market?
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Here are two...the first one I was bought up with and the second well........now how are they going to hurt you if you have a prang.....I would think the landing after doing the airborne acrobats would hurt the most....
(http://www.s1000rrforum.com/forum/attachments/bmw-s1000rr-general-discussion/7186d1323962478-front-number-plates-motorcycle-b.jpg)
and
(http://liveimages.carsales.com.au/redbook/general/editorial/ge4960602536378082370.jpg?height=285&padcolor=F3F7FC&aspect=FitWithin&width=440)
You're joking aren't you Neptune?
The first one would be like a knife....and besides, totally useless to a speed camera when mounted sideways.... :whistler:
The second one, well, while it's not so exposed there are still corners to slice if you were involved in an accident.... :)
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Oh, and update the cameras. Catch the miscreants coming and going.
Yeah, finally someone gets it..... :lol:
Re-read my earlier post. In W.A. we already do this.
No, they're probably all biased.
Unlike most of the car owners on here, hey Dave? :whistler:
I actually don't think I'm biased Rusty. I just see it is fair that motorbike riders have the same rules applied as far as number plates go. That's all.
I have ridden motorbikes for many years, including police bikes. I am not opposed to motorbikes in any way, shape or form. I think they are great to own and ride and it is a great pastime. I am just coming from a legal standpoint. There is no valid reason, in my opinion, why they can't be required to display a front plate, whether it be metal, plastic or adhesive.
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Zip ties.
Or if security is a concern, small metal brackets.
Obviously it works on the bike above and did on my bikes 25 years ago.
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You guys can dig out all the pics you want but you're still ignoring the fact that Australia would be out of line with the rest of the world who, strangely doesn't seem to have an issue with no front plates.....why is that? :undecided:
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Here are two...the first one I was bought up with and the second well........now how are they going to hurt you if you have a prang.....I would think the landing after doing the airborne acrobats would hurt the most....
(http://www.s1000rrforum.com/forum/attachments/bmw-s1000rr-general-discussion/7186d1323962478-front-number-plates-motorcycle-b.jpg)
and
(http://liveimages.carsales.com.au/redbook/general/editorial/ge4960602536378082370.jpg?height=285&padcolor=F3F7FC&aspect=FitWithin&width=440)
You're joking aren't you Neptune?
The first one would be like a knife....and besides, totally useless to a speed camera when mounted sideways.... :whistler:
The second one, well, while it's not so exposed there are still corners to slice if you were involved in an accident.... :)
I doubt neptune is suggesting we use the first one. That's why they were dropped.
The second would be the least of your worries.
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You guys can dig out all the pics you want but you're still ignoring the fact that Australia would be out of line with the rest of the world who, strangely doesn't seem to have an issue with no front plates.....why is that? :undecided:
And, as I said above, we were out of line with the rest of the world when we introduced helmets and seat belts.
I've never been one to follow trends, "just because" others are doing it.
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Zip ties.
Or if security is a concern, small metal brackets.
Obviously it works on the bike above and did on my bikes 25 years ago.
You don't think the boffins at VicRoads wouldn't have thought of that, Trev?
These are guys that WANT front number plates, if it could be done satisfactory I'm sure they would have done it....
You're living in a time warp if you think motorcycles haven't changed in 25 years, Trev...
Oh, an cross ply tires worked years ago too..... :whistler:
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Anyhow, I've had enough....feel free to think what you like.
You and me both know the Government will do what THEY want to do regardless.... :fum:
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You're living in a time warp if you think motorcycles haven't changed in 25 years, Trev...
Read what I wrote above Rusty. I already said exactly that.
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So, what's the score? :D
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then surely they can make plastic ones that fit different size bikes...just like they have done to cars.......
You're forgetting that if front plates were bought in then we'd be out of line with other countries. Do you really believe bike manufacturers are gonna build a different front on a motorcycle just for our miniscule market?
they do with cars.........
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What do they do with cars?
Seems to me most cars have pretty much the same number plate position world wide..... :undecided:
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If legislation was passed in Australia that all motorcycles imported into the country were required to have provision for the fitting of a standard motorcycle registration plate or sticker, trust me, the manufacturers would have it solved in an instant.
There is no way they would miss out on such massive sales revenue because of such a minor issue.
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I'm sure there's no way we'd get the variety of motorcycles offered now if that was the case though... :undecided:
Do you really think they are gonna go to the cost and effort of new molds for fairings etc for such a small market as ours?
I doubt it very much... :cool:
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Stickers Rusty, stickers. :rolleyes:
The police bikes have stickers for front plates.
Think a bit laterally.
I know you don't want them, but it is possible to do.
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Way ahead of you, Dave... :wink:
These only work on bikes with fairlngs for a start. And the fairing would have to have a fairly flat upright section to put the sticker on for a camera to be able to read it, surely? :undecided:
This is the major sticking point..lol. There are so many different bikes with different shaped fairings and of course there are many bikes without fairings at all.... :whistler:
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Oh, and I wouldn't mind betting these stickers didn't comply with all the specs required of number plates.... :undecided:
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I thought you said in post #56 ...
Anyhow, I've had enough....feel free to think what you like.
You and me both know the Government will do what THEY want to do regardless.... :fum:
:snigger:
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Yep, Daz...I have had enough... :lol:
Trouble is, others haven't so I feel it's my duty to continue.... :whistler:
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If there was someone else to continue for me, I'd let them... but it would seem it's just me against the world... :lol:
Not that that's surprising since we are on a CAR forum..... :whistler:
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Rusty, we are not against you!!!! :)
Many of us "car" people like bikes too.
But maybe we just have a different opinion.
Between steel plates, aluminium plates, polycarbonate plates, and stickers, I would be amazed if all bikes couldn't be accommodated.
It is just a matter of will. Is it what we really want?
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These sorts of brackets etc have been considered, Dave...
Apparently manufacturers/dealers have come out and said that fitting these would void warranties...
At the end of the day, surely it would be so much easier to leave things how they are and just upgrade the speed cameras?
I'm really not against the hoons getting nabbed you know... :whistler:
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I take your point, but that is a cop out on the part of the manufacturers really.
If they want to sell their products in Australia then they need to comply with whatever the laws are at the time.
If legislation is passed to say front plates are required, trust me (I used to work for the government :P), they would very quickly find a way because they don't want to loose market share or profits.
Not your problem, mate, or mine. It is their's.
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But it's gonna be the motorcycle buyer that wears the extra costs.... :fum:
Just one more thing to discourage people from riding, Dave....which is, after all, what our bureaucrats ultimately want.
'Tis the easiest way to reduce the motorcycle road toll........
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Next thing they'll want is to register push bikes. After all, registering cars stops people breaking the rules!!
FatBoy (helping people open cans of worms since 2011)
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Next thing they'll want is to register push bikes. After all, registering cars stops people breaking the rules!!
FatBoy (helping people open cans of worms since 2011)
:goodjob: :lol: :lol:
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Get it right, Jamie, it's number plates that stop all that! :whistler:
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then surely they can make plastic ones that fit different size bikes...just like they have done to cars.......
You're forgetting that if front plates were bought in then we'd be out of line with other countries. Do you really believe bike manufacturers are gonna build a different front on a motorcycle just for our miniscule market?
Yes if the adr's mandated. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to sell them here.
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Be easier for them to just not bother with many of the models.... :fum:
Our market is nothing compared to many other countries.
All this because our bureaucrats can't update a few cameras. It would be laughable if the ramifications weren't so serious..... :confused:
But of course this has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with revenue....
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Here are some more interesting links:
http://victorianmotorcyclecouncil.org.au/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=22&cntnt01returnid=69 (http://victorianmotorcyclecouncil.org.au/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=22&cntnt01returnid=69)
http://victorianmotorcyclecouncil.org.au/index.php?page=victorian-road-safety-strategy-2013-2022 (http://victorianmotorcyclecouncil.org.au/index.php?page=victorian-road-safety-strategy-2013-2022)
http://victorianmotorcyclecouncil.org.au/index.php?page=is-it-unfair-that-motorcycles-don-t-have-front-number-plates (http://victorianmotorcyclecouncil.org.au/index.php?page=is-it-unfair-that-motorcycles-don-t-have-front-number-plates)
http://www.mravic.org.au/forum/modules/docmanager/get_file.php?curent_file=452&curent_dir=31 (http://www.mravic.org.au/forum/modules/docmanager/get_file.php?curent_file=452&curent_dir=31)
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They could make it compulsory for riders to have airbags built into their suit.
Imagine a giant ball bouncing around with the rider inside after an accident or the rider morphing into the Michelin man.
I clearly recall a newspaper article about such a suit - it wasn't this one but similar
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2011/December/dec1411-airbag-suits-you-aint-seen-nothing-introducing-safety-sphere/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2011/December/dec1411-airbag-suits-you-aint-seen-nothing-introducing-safety-sphere/)
This one is less extreme
http://www.helite-motorcycle-airbagjackets.co.uk/ (http://www.helite-motorcycle-airbagjackets.co.uk/)
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:ta: Alan (unfortunately that 2nd link wouldn't open for me) :confused:
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They could make it compulsory for riders to have airbags built into their suit.
Imagine a giant ball bouncing around with the rider inside after an accident or the rider morphing into the Michelin man.
I clearly recall a newspaper article about such a suit - it wasn't this one but similar
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2011/December/dec1411-airbag-suits-you-aint-seen-nothing-introducing-safety-sphere/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2011/December/dec1411-airbag-suits-you-aint-seen-nothing-introducing-safety-sphere/)
This one is less extreme
http://www.helite-motorcycle-airbagjackets.co.uk/ (http://www.helite-motorcycle-airbagjackets.co.uk/)
I was thinking more about that Top Gear segment where they played soccer with (I think) Fiats. And a big blow up ball.:rofl:
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I would suggest some might like to do some research on the subject... :whistler:
Here are a few links to get you started.
http://victorianmotorcyclecouncil.org.au/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=22&cntnt01category_id=3&cntnt01returnid=63 (http://victorianmotorcyclecouncil.org.au/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=22&cntnt01category_id=3&cntnt01returnid=63)
http://www.mates.org.au/2009/09/21/front-number-plates-is-the-battle-really-over/ (http://www.mates.org.au/2009/09/21/front-number-plates-is-the-battle-really-over/)
http://www.mccofnsw.org.au/a/33.html (http://www.mccofnsw.org.au/a/33.html)
http://www.swanninsurance.com.au/communications/134 (http://www.swanninsurance.com.au/communications/134)
http://www.bikesales.com.au/news/2009/front-facing-number-plates-16724 (http://www.bikesales.com.au/news/2009/front-facing-number-plates-16724)
http://www.bikepoint.com.au/news-reviews-advice/pdf/12328.aspx?p=%2Fprint.aspx%3FR%3D12328%26AllModules%3D1%26tabID%3D2207674&fn=12328 (http://www.bikepoint.com.au/news-reviews-advice/pdf/12328.aspx?p=%2Fprint.aspx%3FR%3D12328%26AllModules%3D1%26tabID%3D2207674&fn=12328)
Not one shred of evidence in any one of these articles to suggest front facing number plates are in anyway dangerous. Not one. Nor the ones I submitted either. Only heresay "because they got banned years ago". That's not an compelling argument. I looked for any study anywhere that showed a link. I found none, including from technical and engineering bodies who actually study these things. Maybe they consider its not worth worrying about from a safety perspective.
I conclude the lack of evidence does not support the case for safety by omission which seems to be a common theme by those resisting change. No evidence has been proposed supporting the other argument that it does not contribute to safety either.
All this demonstrates is a level of hysteria and paranoia about what exactly? I sense a deeper issue of insecurity by a section of the community. I wonder why? :blubber:
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The Vic Roads doco is a good read. Thanks for sharing it.
Here's why the camera solution is not going to work:
"frontal images are currently essential due both to the lack of owner onus and
the requirement to link the person to the vehicle to secure a penalty from the courts
and the current lack of proclaimed owner onus legislation for speed enforcement."
And there's a broader range of issues than just speeding that make identification desirable and tagging the bike owner for an infringement is not going to work for a range of reasons either. No need to debate the point, its detailed in the document.
They consulted widely:
"Consultation included the full mailing list of the ITS Australia9, the members of
Victorian Motorcycle Advisory Council in Victoria, several motorcycle oriented
email lists and a program of direct email and telephone contact with motorcycle user
groups, stakeholders in the motorcycle retail industry, Registration and Licensing
Authorities, motorcycle manufacturers and distributors, professional committees such
as the US National Science Foundation Transportation Research Board Motorcycle
and Moped Committee and motorcycle industry and user groups overseas. A visit was
made to Western Australia, and ten meetings and a weekend round table with user
groups were held in Perth to ensure that WA circumstances and views were fully
taken into account."
They noted the style of numberplate that raised safety concerns was not the flat on the front of the bike type but the vertical on the mudguard variety and I get that. They won't be returning (clearance of mudguards for one thing, aerodynamic stability for another) so no need to be concerned about that old "safety" chestnut. Adhesive decals were considered the best option.
It looks like its going to happen anyway as there are a number of states involved, not just Victoria. I doubt anyone that gets hit by a bike is going to get killed by an adhesive label so I hereby declare anyone citing safety as a reason not to proceed a complete ignoramus. It is true though the old style plates were nasty. And as I said earlier, the law abiding motorcyclist has nothing to worry about. So bring it on, the sooner the better.
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Not one shred of evidence in any one of these articles to suggest front facing number plates are in anyway dangerous. Not one. Nor the ones I submitted either. Only heresay "because they got banned years ago". That's not an compelling argument. I looked for any study anywhere that showed a link. I found none, including from technical and engineering bodies who actually study these things. Maybe they consider its not worth worrying about from a safety perspective.
I conclude the lack of evidence does not support the case for safety by omission which seems to be a common theme by those resisting change. No evidence has been proposed supporting the other argument that it does not contribute to safety either.
Seems you're concentrating on the safety aspect and little else, Keith....Btw, a pedestrian WAS killed which WAS the catalyst for removing the plates.
Have you not read that VicRoads tried to come up with a workable number plate option over 5 years and $420,000 and failed? Others have been unable to come up with a solution either. So for those that see it as being an easy solution to overcome, perhaps you need to think again. VicRoads hate motorcycles. They would love to have them off the road. If they could have come up with a workable way to fit plates, don't you worry, they would've found one.
I'm really curious though, why is it only Australia that feels the need to bring back front plates?
Are there no other countries that have these hoons? Maybe they used their brains and bought speed cameras suitable for the job? :undecided:
Btw, why is that so many car drivers feel that motorcycles SHOULD have front number plates?
Are you sure it's not a jealousy thing? You only have to bring up lane splitting and car drivers start crying out that motorcyclists should wait in line like everyone else... :whistler:
All this demonstrates is a level of hysteria and paranoia about what exactly? I sense a deeper issue of insecurity by a section of the community. I wonder why? :blubber:
Which section of the community, Keith....it could be seen either way... :whistler:
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As well as the links both you and I posted, I had a good read of the Vic Roads doc. They polled widely. Safety was the reason most widely given by those polled for rejecting the proposal as in "they banned them yonks ago on safety grounds". Fair enough then since apparently "A" pedestrian was killed. That's all the information available I can find although I agree the vertical number plate is a stupid and potentially dangerous thing. The papers of course have picked up on the evil revenue raising aspect but they are in the business of selling papers, not offering an objective view.
Anyway, I challenge the notion that front mounted registration info is a safety issue now. In fact I'd say its a non issue. What was banned actually was the vertical metal plate on the mudguard which isn't legible from the front anyway. The proposal is to use a sticker for ID on the front. Where's the safety issue with a sticker? Paper cut putting it on the bike perhaps. The number of pedestrians likely to be killed by a sticker on a bike? Hard to say since nearly all bikes already have stickers on them of some sort. So probably no more than currently. What was the safety argument again? Feel free to offer a counterpoint.
On cameras that do capture front and back they exist, some jurisdictions have them. VR report states where motorbikes are concerned there are problems in obtaining convictions with these devices hence why they want ID on the front. Fair enough.
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WA has front & rear plate cameras.
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Keith, you're assuming a sticker number plate is the answer. It's not.....
One size does not fit all....
How do you propose to use a sticker on the front of a Harley or any other unfaired bike?
If it was so easy, we'd have them on bikes now....Front number plates have been a hot potato for many years now and at the end of the day no one has been able to come up with a workable solution.
And remember, if plates are bought in, they will have to be fitted to every existing registered bike regardless of age and style.
I'm curious, would you want something bolted on the bonnet of your E Type Jag (if you had one) just because someone thought they could catch a few extra hoons?
I suspect not....
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If owners had a choice, as I said previously, of metal plate, polycarbonate plate or adhesive sticker, then they could choose which one they wanted before riding their bike on a road.
I've seen plenty of E-Types with adhesive stickers as front number plates because that is what their owners chose to use.
It's not that hard.
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Still has to be mounted though, Dave.... :undecided:
Bikes have got much smaller over the years, especially sports bikes compared to back in the 70's.
My example of the E type Jag was in regard to bolting a bracket on to hold a plate. Would owners happily drill holes in the bonnet to mount something that was of dubious value? This is basically equivalent to the sort of thing some bike owners will be having to do.....
The question I need to ask is, why the F*ck is it so important to have a front number plate? Seems it's mostly a question of lost revenue and not much else. The lost revenue can be made up with cameras taking snaps of the rear of vehicles.
Why are people not up in arms over the millions of dollars lost due to cars having defective or defaced plates?
Seems it's much easier to attack a minority group...
Ok, feel free to show me how easy it would be to place a number plate on the front of these bikes....also bearing in mind you can't block air accessing the engine... :whistler:
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/rustynutz69/Deadcat1_zpsa3fe47b9.jpg~original) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/rustynutz69/media/Deadcat1_zpsa3fe47b9.jpg.html)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/rustynutz69/Deadcat2_zps973039b6.jpg~original) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/rustynutz69/media/Deadcat2_zps973039b6.jpg.html)
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It ain't going to happen guys. There will be no plates fitted to the frint of motor bikes. if it was going to happen, it would have.
Just accept it.
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Where there's a will, there's a way, Rusty. ;)
Minority group? :undecided:
I wouldn't call motorcyclists a minority group. Far from it, in fact.
The members of the Fair Treatment of South American Bats Association - that's a minority group. :)
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Where there's a will, there's a way, Rusty. ;)
Minority group? :undecided:
I wouldn't call motorcyclists a minority group. Far from it, in fact.
The members of the Fair Treatment of South American Bats Association - that's a minority group. :)
I thought it was "where there's a will there's a relative".... :undecided:
Motorcycles make up around 4.5 % of registered vehicles in Australia, Dave...so yeah, I'd call them a minority...
It ain't going to happen guys. There will be no plates fitted to the frint of motor bikes. if it was going to happen, it would have.
Just accept it.
I hope you're right.... :undecided:
A suspicious person might even think there was foul play involved by the Victorian Police to distract/influence our pollies when they make a decision on the parliamentary inquiry into motorcycle & scooter safety report this month.... :undecided: :whistler:
Surely not? :confused:
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Where there's a will, there's a way, Rusty. ;)
Minority group? :undecided:
I wouldn't call motorcyclists a minority group. Far from it, in fact.
The members of the Fair Treatment of South American Bats Association - that's a minority group. :)
I thought it was "where there's a will there's a relative".... :undecided:
Motorcycles make up around 4.5 % of registered vehicles in Australia, Dave...so yeah, I'd call them a minority...
According to the 2012 census, there are some 709,000+ motorbikes registered in Australia.
That is NOT a minority group. Even more bikes than trucks.
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And how many cars, Dave? :whistler:
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I just looked...12 714 235 passenger vehicles
Still a minority in my book....
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And how many cars, Dave? :whistler:
700,000 isn't a minority group.Electric cars would be a minority group.
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Of course, many, many more, as you'd expect.
But gee, hardly a minority group even though you'd probably like to think you are.
Mono cycles - a minority group.
One legged marathon runners - a minority group.
Blind dart players - a minority group.
But motorcyclists? In Australia? :lol:
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Seems someone needs to look up the meaning of minority.... :whistler:
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I know what minority group means.
But as I said, you aren't in one (not for riding a motorbike, anyway). ;)
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If you say so.... :rolleyes:
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I knew you'd come around, eventually. :D :P
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I did come around....to thinking you don't know what a minority is... :P
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ain't going to happen guys. There will be no plates fitted to the frint of motor bikes. if it was going to happen, it would have.
Agree there will be no plates. There will however be stickers. It will happen, they are working on it prototypes are being trialled. Also the ADR people are working up something as well and we should all be afraid of that because whatever they decide there is no going back.
Also in the report is the collaboration with the WA folks and an explanation of why front/back cameras don't do the job hence the desire to label the front. RFID tags are not able to be permanently mounted, they are out as well. Maybe if they stick a chip behind the drivers ear, but I think that's going to far. :rolleyes:
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Which report are you referring to, Keith? :undecided:
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I could solve the problem quite easily and no one would have the need to display any number plates,every vehicle in Australia by a certain date must be fitted with a transponder(which all have their own individual indentity number),govenrments could sell off all their speed camera's they could install thousands of transponder scanners,telling no one where they are installed,they can be set for a certain speed,if you exceed that speed your number is read and you are sent a fine, it is in disputable,no two transponders have the same identity and once they are read by a fix scanner it would be up to the owner to dob in the culprit.
But I'm with Rusty on one thing,just update the camera's, so their all rear reading,you'll get everyone then,or again go to the transponder system,no one gets away with them,I go one further to,we have unmarked cars out on the roads,lets also have unmarked bikes as well.
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http://www.mravic.org.au/forum/modules/docmanager/get_file.php?curent_file=452&curent_dir=31 (http://www.mravic.org.au/forum/modules/docmanager/get_file.php?curent_file=452&curent_dir=31)
This one you posted earlier which is what I've been quoting from. All the research is there and frankly much of it makes good sense and debunks a lot of the media spin. Many of the questions raised in this discussion, addressed in the report. In summary:
On the topic of speed and safety, researchers demonstrate an undeniable link. Traffic management strategies conclude that driver behavior needs to be modified to minimise the risk. Cameras are one such mechanism. The cameras that capture front and rear have problems with motorbikes. Hence the desire to be able to identify them from the front. Many people cite safety as an objection to placing identification on the front of a bike based on a situation that no longer exists and yet present no evidence to back up the assertion. Many people are suspicious its a revenue raising tactic. Many options have been considered, adhesive stickers are the preferred way to ID bikes from the front. Etc.
This is all from the report, not my opinion. The report is worth reading if anyone has an interest in the topic and wants to be informed. The remaining articles are less objective.
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Ta keith, I did wonder if that was the one you were talking about... :undecided:
Just be aware though that it's dated back from 2001 and there's been a lot of water under the bridge since then.
VicRoads has since spent a number of years and a heap of cash trying to come up with ways to fit front number plates without success and the buck was then passed to Queensland to try to come up with some kind of electronic method of identifying motorcycles from the roadside.
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Ta keith, I did wonder if that was the one you were talking about... :undecided:
Just be aware though that it's dated back from 2001 and there's been a lot of water under the bridge since then.
VicRoads has since spent a number of years and a heap of cash trying to come up with ways to fit front number plates without success and the buck was then passed to Queensland to try to come up with some kind of electronic method of identifying motorcycles from the roadside.
Good point on the age of the report and subsequent effort.
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I knew you'd come around, eventually. :D :P
I wouldn't hold your breath Dave :undecided:
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im sure everyone with a bike has given it a blast past a backwards facing speed camera just to see it flash...
and if you ride a bike, dont say you havent... everyone hates the speed cameras and it feels good to get one back at them!!
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im sure everyone with a bike has given it a blast past a backwards facing speed camera just to see it flash...
and if you ride a bike, dont say you havent... everyone hates the speed cameras and it feels good to get one back at them!!
:lol: Nice twist on this topic Ian :goodjob:
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out there there would be a few good ones of others obviously *shifty eyes*... i bet doing the finger to a camera didnt make mr police comissioner too happy.
imagine his response, THIS IS A BLATANT DISREGARD OF RESPECT!!
i jsut wish to point something out here...
every vehicle in Australia by a certain date must be fitted with a transponder
they could install thousands of transponder scanners,telling no one where they are installed,they can be set for a certain speed,if you exceed that speed your number is read and you are sent a fine,
OHH SWEET JESUS!! WHAT DRUGS ARE YOU ON!! MY GOD!!!
NO, NO, NO, NO!!! AND AGAIN NO!!
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I knew you'd come around, eventually. :D :P
I wouldn't hold your breath Dave :undecided:
Sorry mate, can't come around to something I know is wrong.... :rolleyes:
im sure everyone with a bike has given it a blast past a backwards facing speed camera just to see it flash...
and if you ride a bike, dont say you havent... everyone hates the speed cameras and it feels good to get one back at them!!
I haven't..... :rolleyes:
Not all motorcycle riders flout the road laws, Ian....
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I haven't..... :rolleyes:
Not all motorcycle riders flout the road laws, Ian....
eh...
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we should all be making a stand against speed cameras removed
Really.
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have you ever seen a speed camera stop crime? intercept a shipment of drugs? prevent a murder? have you ever gone to a speed camera to report somone breaking in to your house? has a speed camera ever found your stolen car NO of course not...
a speed camera does NOTHING for society, it does not prevent anything, it does not solve anything it does not help you when you have been robbed. its 100% revenue and nothing else
BUT WAIT, that revenue gets put to good use? ive literally seen 5 road upgrades with "paid for by speed camera" signs on them... and they were ALL simple resurfacing of the road... what about the police officer sitting in the car, on overtime?? ohh they dont tell you that do they? thats right 4 fat hours of overtime, to sit down and do NOTHING.
GET OUT THERE IN A MARKED CAR AND DRIVE AROUND, actually prevent crime, rather than making criminals of people for something so minor. its all a lie and a sham.
and for the record ive NEVER had a speeding fine or any infringment on my driving record.
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Sorry,I do not normally like defending the authorities,I know a few Police officers and believe me I wouldn't do their job in a pink fit,like ANY work place yes you will have your malingerers and bludgers,but most are like the rest of us hard workers,JUST DOING THEIR JOBS, yes I'm not that keen on speed camera's but if I'm caught,I am more mad at myself for being a dickhead and breaking the law,it's not the speed camera's fault for me breaking the law.
As for saying what sort of drugs am I on for wanting transponders,sorry but I am not the one blasting through speed camera's just because I can,as I have no front number plate or giving a camera the finger because I have no way of getting caught,sorry but that to me is the actions of a coward not willing the face the consequences of their actions,sorry but most PPL who complain the loudest are those who are the most likely to break the law.
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what about the police officer sitting in the car, on overtime?? ohh they dont tell you that do they? thats right 4 fat hours of overtime, to sit down and do NOTHING.
Pretty sure mobile speed cameras are operated by civilians, not the police, Ian... :undecided:
Police Officers are free to sit behind their desk shuffling paperwork... :lol: :whistler:
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what about the police officer sitting in the car, on overtime?? ohh they dont tell you that do they? thats right 4 fat hours of overtime, to sit down and do NOTHING.
Pretty sure mobile speed cameras are operated by civilians, not the police, Ian... :undecided:
Police Officers are free to sit behind their desk shuffling paperwork... :lol: :whistler:
If they are then up here the civilians are wearing borrowed police uniforms.
And that last line is an insult to police officers everywhere.
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what about the police officer sitting in the car, on overtime?? ohh they dont tell you that do they? thats right 4 fat hours of overtime, to sit down and do NOTHING.
Pretty sure mobile speed cameras are operated by civilians, not the police, Ian... :undecided:
Police Officers are free to sit behind their desk shuffling paperwork... :lol: :whistler:
If they are then up here the civilians are wearing borrowed police uniforms.
And that last line is an insult to police officers everywhere.
I think he was joking Trev :whistler:
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Regarding the amount of time police spend on paperwork - rusty's comment would be very true for the UK. The police do indeed spend most of their time shuffling paperwork.
However - it's not their fault - they are subject to a blitz of red tape imposed on them by stupid government edicts, the judicial system and the PC brigade.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1232778/Police-time-beat-tumbles-13-cent-red-tape-blitz-fails.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1232778/Police-time-beat-tumbles-13-cent-red-tape-blitz-fails.html)
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Regarding the amount of time police spend on paperwork - rusty's comment would be very true for the UK. The police do indeed spend most of their time shuffling paperwork.
However - it's not their fault - they are subject to a blitz of red tape imposed on them by stupid government edicts, the judicial system and the PC brigade.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1232778/Police-time-beat-tumbles-13-cent-red-tape-blitz-fails.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1232778/Police-time-beat-tumbles-13-cent-red-tape-blitz-fails.html)
That's interesting Alan. And I'm sure it's correct. But you must have a lot of police because every time Claire and I are in th e UK we comment about how high a police presence there seems to be everywhere.
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Geez, Trev, you really need to lighten up.... :fum:
What part of :lol: and :whistler: don't you get? Do I need to spell it out for you? :rolleyes:
Oh, and you might wanna read this article:
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/newman-government-to-add-more-speed-cameras-and-may-outsource-them-to-boost-revenue/story-e6freoof-1226504919166 (http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/newman-government-to-add-more-speed-cameras-and-may-outsource-them-to-boost-revenue/story-e6freoof-1226504919166)
If there aren't civilians manning them yet, it appears they aren't far away...
It will bring them into line with other States....
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Geez, Trev, you really need to lighten up.... :fum:
What part of :lol: and :whistler: don't you get? Do I need to spell it out for you? :rolleyes:
Oh, and you might wanna read this article:
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/newman-government-to-add-more-speed-cameras-and-may-outsource-them-to-boost-revenue/story-e6freoof-1226504919166 (http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/newman-government-to-add-more-speed-cameras-and-may-outsource-them-to-boost-revenue/story-e6freoof-1226504919166)
If there aren't civilians manning them yet, it appears they aren't far away...
It will bring them into line with other States....
I'll lighten up when you back up.
And I don't have a problem with civilians manning the speed cameras. I just commented that it's not common (if it happens at all) up here yet.
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Dave could possibly shed light on the camera operators here,they do have a uniform of sorts,but the blokes I have seen setting up mobile units certainly don't look like policemen,may be ex officers,but look ,more like contractors.
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Regarding the amount of time police spend on paperwork - rusty's comment would be very true for the UK. The police do indeed spend most of their time shuffling paperwork.
However - it's not their fault - they are subject to a blitz of red tape imposed on them by stupid government edicts, the judicial system and the PC brigade.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1232778/Police-time-beat-tumbles-13-cent-red-tape-blitz-fails.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1232778/Police-time-beat-tumbles-13-cent-red-tape-blitz-fails.html)
That's interesting Alan. And I'm sure it's correct. But you must have a lot of police because every time Claire and I are in th e UK we comment about how high a police presence there seems to be everywhere.
You may indeed see a lot of police in London and other areas where there is a high crime rate - or where it is politically 'convenient' for police to be seen to out and about. But in my experience that is not true for most of the country.
I cannot recall when I last saw a policemen in my area walking the beat. In fact I have never seen one in my road - or the road we lived in previously over the past 10 years. The only police presence I have seen in my road over the past three years was two police cars responding to a neighbour who caught 2 yobs breaking into his car. He works for a drug company and often carries quantities of drugs - somehow the underworld have discovered this and his car has been attacked 3 times.
The guy who is buying my house visited yesterday and told me that he was burgled two days ago. His partner heard a noise at 5:00 am and when he went to investigate he found a burglar in the kitchen. Despite having bare feet and pyjamas he chased the scumbag down the road but he got away. He phoned the police but they said that because nothing had been taken - it was low priority and all they would do is give him a crime number for insurance purposes to get the damaged door repaired. They were clearly too busy shuffling paperwork at the police station.
However - the police were not too busy the previous day to send out a car to remonstrate with two 10 year old girls playing hopscotch on the pavement outside their own home and accusing them of criminal damage by chalking on the slabs. Some idiot had phoned in a complaint about graffiti.
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Speed cameras are manned by civilian operators in W.A. who earn a lot less than police officers do, so I guess the police are then freed up to do other things.
And to the comment from agentr31 about police sitting in their cars doing nothing, honestly, you do not have a clue.
Even when the police are sitting in their cars apparently "doing nothing" trust me, they earn their money.
Until you've done the job and been verbally and physically abused (as I have), spat on (as I have), kicked and punched (as I have), vilified just for doing your job (as I have), hopelessly outnumbered and surrounded by a large group of angry pond dwellers (as I have), all I can say is it would be a good idea to keep quiet.
Let me tell you, you wouldn't even want to be a civilian speed camera operator sitting alone in a van (doing nothing), because there are morons and lowlife out there that stop their cars and go back and abuse them, throw things at them, run over the speed cameras, etc, etc.
The police here actually have to do security checks everyday on all civilian camera operators just to maintain their safety and I guess it takes a certain type of "hero" to do those types of things to people they don't know and have never met just because they are operating a speed camera. :fum:
I'm sure there are applications you can fill out if you'd like to volunteer for the job, if it is so easy, instead of lashing out with such harsh, uncalled for criticism.
And there you are, outwardly advocating throwing bottles and rocks at mobile speed cameras and diesel soaked tyres and burning the fixed ones.
Very civil. :fum:
And ask yourself this question. Like them or not, do you think that the advent of speed cameras has changed driver behaviour?
I do.
And for your info, 100% of all "revenue" raised by speed cameras from people who choose to contribute, goes towards road safety in W.A.
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we comment about how high a police presence there seems to be everywhere.
[/quote]
Until you need them
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Alan, most of the time we have spent in the UK hasbeen out of london and where possible on lesser roads. But I would accept that most of the towns we have been in would have some value to tourists so the police presence in those areas may well not be representative.
I imagine it would be very frustrating when you can't get police to attend a crime in your own home.
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I'll lighten up when you back up.
Back up? :wtf:
I just commented that it's not common (if it happens at all) up here yet.
Really? :rolleyes:
If they are then up here the civilians are wearing borrowed police uniforms.
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Alan, most of the time we have spent in the UK hasbeen out of london and where possible on lesser roads. But I would accept that most of the towns we have been in would have some value to tourists so the police presence in those areas may well not be representative.
I imagine it would be very frustrating when you can't get police to attend a crime in your own home.
Are you sure that you know what the UK police look like……..
When you get to my age they look like this……………
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/AlanHo1937/i30%20Forum/police2_zpsfff9dd90.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AlanHo1937/media/i30%20Forum/police2_zpsfff9dd90.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/AlanHo1937/i30%20Forum/Policewoman_zps74f106d7.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AlanHo1937/media/i30%20Forum/Policewoman_zps74f106d7.jpg.html)
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Alan, most of the time we have spent in the UK hasbeen out of london and where possible on lesser roads. But I would accept that most of the towns we have been in would have some value to tourists so the police presence in those areas may well not be representative.
I imagine it would be very frustrating when you can't get police to attend a crime in your own home.
Are you sure that you know what the UK police look like……..
When you get to my age they look like this……………
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/AlanHo1937/i30%20Forum/police2_zpsfff9dd90.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AlanHo1937/media/i30%20Forum/police2_zpsfff9dd90.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/AlanHo1937/i30%20Forum/Policewoman_zps74f106d7.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AlanHo1937/media/i30%20Forum/Policewoman_zps74f106d7.jpg.html)
They were all more like #1 than # 2
Dammit!
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#2 can handcuff me anytime,OOh OOh I fell the chest pains coming back :whistler: but I think they'd be worth it :rofl:
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Do you need me to take over, Rick? :whistler:
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Do you need me to take over, Rick? :whistler:
NO NO NO I'll be right mate,thanks for the offer but :rofl:
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Ok then, I'd just hate to see you have a "stroke" or something... :whistler:
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Ok then, I'd just hate to see you have a "stroke" or something... :whistler:
no the nice looking officer can have as many strokes as she likes :lol:
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:D
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Settle petal. :D
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the way he is feeling , Phil...two strokes will do.... :snigger:
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:rofl: :rofl:
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Do you need me to take over, Rick? :whistler:
he's offering you his trungent rick. :lol: :whistler:
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Alan, most of the time we have spent in the UK hasbeen out of london and where possible on lesser roads. But I would accept that most of the towns we have been in would have some value to tourists so the police presence in those areas may well not be representative.
I imagine it would be very frustrating when you can't get police to attend a crime in your own home.
Are you sure that you know what the UK police look like……..
When you get to my age they look like this……………
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/AlanHo1937/i30%20Forum/police2_zpsfff9dd90.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AlanHo1937/media/i30%20Forum/police2_zpsfff9dd90.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/AlanHo1937/i30%20Forum/Policewoman_zps74f106d7.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AlanHo1937/media/i30%20Forum/Policewoman_zps74f106d7.jpg.html)
there's a lot of make up on & looks like a wig on a suiside blonde , could be one of Mrs Browns boys lol
but arrest me office & if she say's " anything you say, will be held against you" i'd have to say tit's tit's!
also my view on camera's to check speed is they cause acidents in the fact that they can stop the flow of traffic & also drives need to take eye off the road to check speedo but red light cameras are a good thing
& motorcycles with numberplate on front just to get a head om shot to catch them is useless as you can't possitivly identify a rider with full face helmet you just identify the bike. i think more cops & make copes give the rider the ticket is the right way
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motorcycles with numberplate on front just to get a head om shot to catch them is useless as you can't positively identify a rider with full face helmet you just identify the bike. i think more cops & make copes give the rider the ticket is the right way
Yes but in Oz the onus is on the vehicle owner to identify who was riding/driving the vehicle at the time or cop(no pun intended) the fine and demerits themselves,won't be a problem in a few years the way tech is going and the way all states tend to keep updating their equipment,personally I don't care whether they have them or not,but the several bikes I had all had them and they where affixed where they were of no danger to pedestrians and had no aerodynamic affect on the bike either,I honestly think it is a biker mentality thing,even the bikes I see on the roads these days nine out of ten of them have the rear number plates bent or deliberately mounted parallel to the road,which is also a big No No,so the no number plate argument to me holds no water, simply a rebellion thing,I like to be a rebel some days to.
Go on Rusty have your rant now I know you want to :whistler: :whistler:,but like me :evil: your not going to change my opinion as I am not going to change yours,that's why we are called individuals :lol:
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Yes but in Oz the onus is on the vehicle owner to identify who was riding/driving the vehicle
Quite right, Rick...... :goodjob:
Yes but in Oz the onus is on the vehicle owner to identify who was riding/driving the vehicle at the time or cop(no pun intended) the fine and demerits themselves,won't be a problem in a few years the way tech is going and the way all states tend to keep updating their equipment,personally I don't care whether they have them or not,but the several bikes I had all had them and they where affixed where they were of no danger to pedestrians and had no aerodynamic affect on the bike either,I honestly think it is a biker mentality thing,even the bikes I see on the roads these days nine out of ten of them have the rear number plates bent or deliberately mounted parallel to the road,which is also a big No No,so the no number plate argument to me holds no water, simply a rebellion thing,I like to be a rebel some days to.
Comparing bikes of today with their full fairings and much smaller size to a 30 year old motorcycle doesn't really work though.
And really, 9 out of 10 have their number plate bent or mounted parallel?? Me thinks this may be a slight exaggeration..... :winker:
Btw, Rick...how many cars do you see with defaced or obscured plates?
One thing that has been confirmed though with this thread (and other motorcycle related threads) anti motorcycle sentiment is alive and well with most car drivers.... :whistler:
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Comparing bikes of today with their full fairings and much smaller size to a 30 year old motorcycle doesn't really work though.
Yes comparing the two style of bikes and their differences,but believe me I still a great deal of interest in Bikes of today and I look and occasionally get to ride some,every bike I have come across I could safely design and fit a number plate on the front,but hey I'm a very lateral thinker.
And really, 9 out of 10 have their number plate bent or mounted parallel?? Me thinks this may be a slight exaggeration..... :winker:
Obviously you haven't visited WA in recent times, I shite you not, it is not uncommon here.
Btw, Rick...how many cars do you see with defaced or obscured plates?
Oh'so many times and generally all are on PPL's cars that have something to hide,I have even been guilty of doing it(not recently)
One thing that has been confirmed though with this thread (and other motorcycle related threads) anti motorcycle sentiment is alive and well with most car drivers.... :whistler:
Yes true,but not by me I have and still live on both sides of the fence,I say that EVERYONE who has a license should be forced to ride a bike for a time,if not drive a heavy vehicle be forced to be a passenger in a heavy vehicle for a week or fortnight(especially police officers,sorry Dave not having a crack at you personally),yes so so many car drivers have only ever seen one point of the driving world,if they experienced another maybe they would see things differently.
Funnily enough I was reading through WA transports web site last night looking for something else,penalties wise and what I found to PPL being able to get a license just horrified me,no wonder we have so many tosspots on the roads,especially when it comes to foreigners getting a WA license, I thought the stories I was being told by overseas immigrants and how they obtained their licenses here was just stories,well apparently it's not.
I just hope when it is time for me to hang up my keys,I can recognise the right time and have the balls to hand my license in,yes there are so many out there who shouldn't be on the road(some may think now I should be one of them)I have and will always maintain, a License is a PRIVILEDGE not your God given Right,when PPL start to understand that maybe we'll start getting better drivers on the roads,younguns moan and Bitch today about how hard it is to get a license,F#* me PPL grow up,your getting behind the wheel of what could be a lethal weapon.
Heavy vehicle licenses are the perfect example these days,you wouldn"t believe what I had to do to pass my license years ago, heavy vehicle operators aren't drivers todays, they are simply steering wheel attendants,I see it on a daily basis, yes there are those out there who wish to learn but Oh so many once they have the heavy vehicle ticket,know it all, as do most of the younguns today once they have their cars licenses.
Rant over I'll get of my soap box,but yes I can see your points,cyclists against cars,cars against M/cyclist,m/cyclist against everyone,truck drivers against everyone and everyone hating truck drivers,if it wasn't for truck drivers everyone would have F*#&all on their shop shelves,in their homes or fridges,along with all the people who produce the stuff,so we all have out place.
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I've had my HGV licence since 1978.
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I cannot recall when I last saw a policemen in my area walking the beat. In fact I have never seen one in my road - or the road we lived in previously over the past 10 years.
http://urbanlegendsonline.com/how-to-call-the-police/ (http://urbanlegendsonline.com/how-to-call-the-police/) << problem solved. :goodjob2:
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Keith thats a classic,I have read that a few times before,I have done a similar thing,but being a tightarse,I saved the second call,I just rang them up told them I have an intruder/s,once they had my address I just told them they could find their unconsious bodies in the street once I had finished with them,yes they got the two blokes but I got in the Poo as well
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to bad if the two guys fought and killed each other and the cops rocked up. :twisted: :eek: :rofl: :rofl:
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Yes never thought of that, but hey thats how I swing doing and saying a lot of things before thinking them out.
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Yes true,but not by me I have and still live on both sides of the fence,I say that EVERYONE who has a license should be forced to ride a bike for a time,.......
In which case everybody who rides a bike should HAVE to drive a car for a time and see how difficult it is to second guess which bloody side of you they are coming down, how fast, how big a space you need to keep between you and the vehicle to your side so they don't take your mirrors off, how infuriating it is when they weave between lanes whilst undertaking and overall how apparently it is the car/truck/bus drivers responsibility to ensure the motorcycle riders safety whilst they perform all these ridiculous moves.
DISCLAIMER - THis of course in my opinion, because it's mine it can't be wrong, let's stop the constant haggling each other because of our opinions please, it is getting very wearing, healthy discussion is one thing, dissing each other because our opinions don't match others is another thing entirely.
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Keith thats a classic,I have read that a few times before,I have done a similar thing,but being a tightarse,I saved the second call,I just rang them up told them I have an intruder/s,once they had my address I just told them they could find their unconsious bodies in the street once I had finished with them,yes they got the two blokes but I got in the Poo as well
Oh dear, this doesn't fit too well with your latest name change. :disapp:
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You're looking especially nice today (in your avatar), NBR. :D
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Yes true,but not by me I have and still live on both sides of the fence,I say that EVERYONE who has a license should be forced to ride a bike for a time,.......
In which case everybody who rides a bike should HAVE to drive a car for a time and see how difficult it is <
I'd suggest that most motorcycle riders are already car drivers so would already have a good understanding, well, at least the more sensible ones would.
Car drivers, on the other hand, if they have never ridden a motorcycle, they will have much more trouble understanding motorcycle related issues.
In a perfect world I reckon it would be majorly beneficial to car drivers if they had to ride a motorcycle before hand but, as we all know, that's never gonna happen... :Pout:
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I think that is a huge assumption Russ, whilst many bike riders may already be car drivers in Oz, I only know 3 people who hold both licences amongst my friends and colleagues.
I have never been interested in motor bikes, why then should it be mandatory for me to ride one in order to drive a car, ridiculous idea in my opinion.
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I have both, unrestricted. :wink:
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I have both, unrestricted. :wink:
Me too.
Plus Heavy Goods Vehicle. :D
Oh, and a marriage licence.
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Is the marriage license restricted :question:
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Is the marriage license restricted :question:
Unfortunately yes. To just one wife. :disapp:
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Is the marriage license restricted :question:
Mine is, I'm only allowed to drive one model. To drive other models is what Mrs FatBoy describes as "an extreme sport".
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Thought so. :disapp:
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Is the marriage license restricted :question:
Unfortunately yes. To just one wife. :disapp:
Bugger. :whistler:
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Is the marriage license restricted :question:
Mine is, I'm only allowed to drive one model. To drive other models is what Mrs FatBoy describes as "an extreme sport".
As in, it's very dangerous an you could get killed. :Shocked:
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Is the marriage license restricted :question:
Unfortunately yes. To just one wife. :disapp:
Bugger. :whistler:
I'm thinking of applying for a "multi-girlfriend" licence though. :D
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Is the marriage license restricted :question:
Unfortunately yes. To just one wife. :disapp:
Bugger. :whistler:
I'm thinking of applying for a "multi-girlfriend" licence though. :D
Good luck with that one, Dave. Let us know how you go, or will we find out in the obituaries?
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Is the marriage license restricted :question:
Unfortunately yes. To just one wife. :disapp:
Bugger. :whistler:
I'm thinking of applying for a "multi-girlfriend" licence though. :D
Good luck with that one, Dave. Let us know how you go, or will we find out in the obituaries?
:lol:
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Now, back on topic.
Motorcyclists are all evil law breakers who should be made to drive submarines in the sky so that they can read the number plates of Jumbo Jets through their periscope.
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I have both, unrestricted. :wink:
Me too.
Plus Heavy Goods Vehicle. :D
Oh, and a marriage licence.
Most of my licenses are unrestricted :happydance:
Car bike truck,sadly my marriage and gun license are not :blubber:,I shouldn't really be trusted with the last one either,thankfully I will not have a firearm in the house
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Now, back on topic.
Motorcyclists are all evil law breakers who should be made to drive submarines in the sky so that they can read the number plates of Jumbo Jets through their periscope.
:rofl: That'd learn 'em.
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I think that is a huge assumption Russ, whilst many bike riders may already be car drivers in Oz, I only know 3 people who hold both licences amongst my friends and colleagues.
That may just have something to do with your circle of friends, Brian...These days motorcycling is more a hobby to most, so most also own cars. Obviously there are gonna be exceptions to this. :undecided:
I have never been interested in motor bikes, why then should it be mandatory for me to ride one in order to drive a car, ridiculous idea in my opinion.
It may seem ridiculous but it would certainly give car drivers a much better understanding of how vulnerable a motorcyclist is. Would also help drivers to be much more aware of changing road conditions.
Oh, and your response is pretty much the reverse of what motorcyclists say to our idiot Road SafetyCrats that believe that before you can get a motorcycle licence you must first have a car licence. Not very logical to anyone that actually rides. While I concede it may help as far as road rules go, I can't see it helping with too much else.
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Licensing/Getting-a-licence/Getting-a-motorbike-licence.aspx (http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Licensing/Getting-a-licence/Getting-a-motorbike-licence.aspx)
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Russ, read the response again please, I said amongst my friends and colleagues, so not a tight knit circle of people with the same interests, I work for an employer with 4000 staff, I am a prominent member of that community and have links and associations with a huge amount of those people through my trade union work, my pension work and in my capacity as a governor of the entire institution, those people range from cleaners, porters and security personnel, through to junior admin, senior admin, academics and senior management. That is a lot a of people I know who I would not class as friends, but who I know do not have motorcycle licences. That is why I said it may be the case in Oz, but perhaps not elsewhere........
I have never felt the need to ride a motorbike to find out how to interpret road conditions, a darker patch of tar coming towards me indicates a repair job, a wet or icy section or a potential spillage. I dont need to have ridden a bike to understand that.
As a car driver for 26 years I have only ever been involved in two accidents, one where I ran into the car in front of me, so quite clearly my fault despite his brake lights not working and two when a learner motorcyclist turned right into the side of my car and launched himself over my bonnet. I knew he was there, how he failed to see my much larger vehicle eludes me, but it was his fault and his insurance had to pay out. Had he had the rule which you linked to in the last post, then perhaps his knowledge of road use would have been better before he was let loose on the road, solo with nothing more than a piece of paper and a couple of L Plates. Nowadays we have to complete a process called CBT before we are allowed to ride unsupervised ( http://www.biketec-motorcycle-training.co.uk/cbt-aberdeen.shtml (http://www.biketec-motorcycle-training.co.uk/cbt-aberdeen.shtml) ) .
Therefore in my experience 50% of accidents are caused by motorbikes and 50% by cars, why do we not accept that there are good and bad on both sides of the spectrum and quit the senseless argument that one is better than the other and that apparently all car drivers are ignorant UNLESS they have ridden a motorbike?
Please bear in mind that this is an international forum and so what stands in your country does not necessarily stand in others, therefore you should not brush off the comments from other members as simply as you do, theirs are also valid points and have not been made to p155 you off, they have been made because they relate to the country that poster resides in.
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Now I'm confused,I thought here in Oz we had national licensing, I've just read your link Rusty and have also read the regulations required here in WA,we do not require to have held a vehicle licence to get a moped or restricted M/cycle license here,which don't need front number plates so they can be read by a speed camera(see how I added that last bit to stay on topic :rofl: :whistler:)
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That is correct.
No requirement in W.A. to hold a car licence first.
You can go for whichever you want, but if you get a bike licence you're restricted to 250cc initially.
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That is correct.
No requirement in W.A. to hold a car licence first.
You can go for whichever you want, but if you get a bike licence you're restricted to 250cc initially.
Oh So correct.but I couldn't get my head around the LAMS thing,as they did mention 660cc M/C's and Kw/wt,had me confused,not that it's worried me I have always had an open Bike license,since I got it at 17,boy things have changed since then,nigh on 41 years ago,just imagine these days if they were to give a 16 YO an open truck license
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Seems we've somehow got our wires crossed, Brian.....
I was talking about people who ride motorcycles usually also having a car, not the other way around.... :whistler:
As I previously said:I'd suggest that most motorcycle riders are already car drivers so would already have a good understanding, well, at least the more sensible ones would.
I have never felt the need to ride a motorbike to find out how to interpret road conditions, a darker patch of tar coming towards me indicates a repair job, a wet or icy section or a potential spillage. I dont need to have ridden a bike to understand that.
That's the thing, most people don't feel the need as most people will think they are good drivers, whether they are is beside the point.
Riding a motorcycle can only enhance your understanding of changing road conditions.
Therefore in my experience 50% of accidents are caused by motorbikes and 50% by cars<
I think you'll find that stats show that the majority of accidents involving a car and a motorcycle are actually the fault of the car driver...
why do we not accept that there are good and bad on both sides of the spectrum and quit the senseless argument that one is better than the other and that apparently all car drivers are ignorant UNLESS they have ridden a motorbike?
I have no idea, Brian...I'm more than happy to admit many riders are dickheads, just as I'm happy to point out that many car drivers are...I'm sure I've said so in many previous discussions. The facts are though that many drivers are in fact ignorant of a motorcycles capabilities and the different laws concerning them which is why I like to try to educate people. :winker: :lol:
Now I'm confused,I thought here in Oz we had national licensing, I've just read your link Rusty and have also read the regulations required here in WA,we do not require to have held a vehicle licence to get a moped or restricted M/cycle license here,which don't need front number plates so they can be read by a speed camera(see how I added that last bit to stay on topic :rofl: :whistler:)
You're confused? Hehehe.....I know, it's crazy! As far as I know, Queensland is on their Pat Malone in requiring motorcycle riders to obtain a car licence first.
You can go for whichever you want, but if you get a bike licence you're restricted to 250cc initially.
Actually, things have changed, Dave....W.A. has bought in the Learner Approved Motorcycle Scheme (LAMS) (http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/licensing/26649.asp) early this year which has now bought it into line with most other States. so no 250cc limit now..... :goodjob:
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You can go for whichever you want, but if you get a bike licence you're restricted to 250cc initially.
Actually, things have changed, Dave....W.A. has bought in the Learner Approved Motorcycle Scheme (LAMS) (http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/licensing/26649.asp) early this year which has now bought it into line with most other States. so no 250cc limit now..... :goodjob:
That's what I love about this forum. Always learning. :thanks:
I should be careful quoting legal stuff because it does tend to change periodically.
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I certainly won't miss the 250cc, Dave..... :goodjob:
Great for lightweight people but really ridiculous, not to mention dangerous trying to squeeze a big lump like myself on one. :whistler:
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Years ago, they actually had a batch of 250cc police bikes, fully kitted out with everything on them as per normal, for the blokes who had just got their licence.
They looked absolutely ridiculous and were so heavy with all the fairings, lights, sirens, panniers, radio gear, etc, they couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding.
What were they thinking? :rolleyes:
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:rofl:
Must admit I do miss the 250cc 2 strokers.....Now they were fun...totally unsuitable to learn on of course. :)
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You can go for whichever you want, but if you get a bike licence you're restricted to 250cc initially.
Actually, things have changed, Dave....W.A. has bought in the Learner Approved Motorcycle Scheme (LAMS) (http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/licensing/26649.asp) early this year which has now bought it into line with most other States. so no 250cc limit now..... :goodjob:
That's what I love about this forum. Always learning. :thanks:
I should be careful quoting legal stuff because it does tend to change periodically.
Thats what I was saying Dave,this new LAMS thing in I couldn't understand all the wording,but with all these discussions,I am not sure how it works in other countires,but here,I as an employed Heavy Vehicle operator,I am required not only by my employer but also by law to continually reveiw all heavy vehicle regultions,to keep upto date with ever changing regulations,usable routes for differing sized vehicles we drive,B-Doubles,B-Triples,Road Trains,20/20 combo's,40/20 combo's and single trailers, pity all road users didn't have to do the same,mind you the more responsible ones would,as ingnorance is not a defence when fighting a traffic infringment or some of the charges the Grey Nurses try to pull on us.
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But these were four stroke. :eek:
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I figured they would've been, Dave.... :goodjob:
Pretty useless unless they are pulling 20,000rpm*...lol
*maybe a slight exaggeration
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:rofl:
Must admit I do miss the 250cc 2 strokers.....Now they were fun...totally unsuitable to learn on of course. :)
I can tell ya The larger 2 strokes were a blast as well,I think the most exciting and sometimes terrifying was the RD350
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I used to have one of those.
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what a larger two stroke or an RD 350 Yamaha
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RD350.
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RD350.
Brilliant bike as long as you were ready for the power band every gear change,unless you where to chicken to take it through 4500 rpm each change
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Yes, it got up and went. :D
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Great Wheelie bike and we had front number plates those days,it was great because we didn't have speed camera's then,big bonus was if you knew where you were going they were a lot quicker and nimbler than the 750 four strokes the cops had (oops did I say that out loud)
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Ah, you guys live in a different world to me, I'll stick with my little 650 BMW and it's truck like gearbox. :mrgreen:
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I used it to ride to work when I first joined the job. :)
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Ah, you guys live in a different world to me, I'll stick with my little 650 BMW and it's truck like gearbox. :mrgreen:
You've heard the joke about trucks.
Mack,Mack's a mans truck
International.International is a Transvestites truck
Volvo,Bloody Volvo is a poofters truck.
well in the bike world you know which category the BMW fits :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Nothing wrong with a BMW 650.
Classic bike.
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@db08 :goodjob2:
@Rick, Thanks, always nice to be called a man. :goodjob2: :snigger:
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Must have to admit, the R1000 tourer was a very nice ride
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I recently got my bike license in QLD after driving a car for 20 years and dirt bikes on and off for the same amount of time. So how did I get it? On a Wednesday I went in and answered 5 questions at the Transport Dept then on Friday I went for a 2 hour training session and a half hour bike ride to show I am confident. $300 later and I'm a licensed road rider.
First bike Suzuki GS500F. Was thinking about the Gladius 650 but couldn't afford it :(
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I would have been happy with either one of these back when I was a young bloke... :D
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/rustynutz69/YamahaRZ500_zpsb584dcb4.jpg~original) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/rustynutz69/media/YamahaRZ500_zpsb584dcb4.jpg.html)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/rustynutz69/SuzukiRG500_zpsf93e4b3f.jpg~original) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/rustynutz69/media/SuzukiRG500_zpsf93e4b3f.jpg.html)
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Welcome to the dark side, Wayne! :goodjob: :drinks:
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Well done Wayne,do they even make two stroke bikes anymore :whistler:, if I was ever going to splash out the sort of money they're asking for bikes these days,I would go for LS3 445hp Boss Hoss,I have only ever gotten to ride one as a pillion,what an absolutely mind blowing experience
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There are a few around, Rick.... :goodjob:
Hopefully there will be a come back with them as 4 strokes are for sissies...lol
As for your Boss Hoss, what a pile of doggy doo doo...you can have it, they are one ugly looking bike.... :whistler:
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There are a few around, Rick.... :goodjob:
Hopefully there will be a come back with them as 4 strokes are for sissies...lol
As for your Boss Hoss, what a pile of doggy doo doo...you can have it, they are one ugly looking bike.... :whistler:
Who cares what it looks like,on these there is never the saying More Power Please,friend when he was on the mines,years ago,brought one of(not the)first to WA,cost him a small fortune,the older ones with the 307 looked a little better than the new ones now,he only kept it for 14 - 16 months found he was never using it,as he was away all the time,I like em,but it'll never happen
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Don't mind me, Rick...I'm only stirring.... :whistler:
Honestly though, they aren't my sort of bike, I'd rather something that went around corners as well as it goes in a straight line. :)
A Honda Goldwing would probably do me nicely....you get comfort, smooth effortless power and reasonable handling.... :goodjob:
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I like the early Goldwings.
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Which ones, Dave? The old flat fours?
The current model is getting a bit outdated now, I reckon....Still, if someone offered me one I'd certainly take it... :lol:
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Isn't the Goldwing a car on two wheels?
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Although it's luxuriously appointed with armchair comfort, 1.8 litre flat 6 engine and comes with mod cons like surround-sound stereo, reverse gear and an airbag, I can't understand why people would think that... :whistler: :lol:
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Which ones, Dave? The old flat fours?
The current model is getting a bit outdated now, I reckon....Still, if someone offered me one I'd certainly take it... :lol:
I like classics.
The original GL1000 that morphed into the Goldwing in the mid to late '70s.
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Here you go, mate.... :D
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/rustynutz69/1975Goldwing_zps55cf1cee.jpg~original) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/rustynutz69/media/1975Goldwing_zps55cf1cee.jpg.html)
Out of curiosity, how old does a bike need to be before it's classed as a classic? :undecided:
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Thanks Rusty. :goodjob2:
Cars over here can be licensed concessionally at 25 years old but I don't really know.
I like the bikes when they're all fairinged up too.
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Kind of still on topic.. I was in Launceston today and a bloke on a big BMW Bike had his stereo blasting quite loud :eek:
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Did you get his number? :undecided:
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Did you get his number? :undecided:
I think it was 1100 :P
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I think it was 1100 :P
Dial before you Dig? :head_butt:
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Did you get his number? :undecided:
He only saw him from front on, so no.
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Kind of still on topic.. I was in Launceston today and a bloke on a big BMW Bike had his stereo blasting quite loud :eek:
Dazz have you had to wear a helmet & listen to a stereo? I think helmet should be compulstary in cars too , too many are killed from head injuries. one day it will happen just bad for hair style.
cheers
also I think a guy on a BMW mc would be middle aged. probably just trying to show off . or might be deaf :rofl:
side note I can't hear a stereo would not matter how loud it was, but I can feel the vibration from some in cars. but don't bother me at all , I could hear fine till I was 16. so it's possible to live without it & still love life :mrgreen:
cheers
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Kind of still on topic.. I was in Launceston today and a bloke on a big BMW Bike had his stereo blasting quite loud :eek:
Dazz have you had to wear a helmet & listen to a stereo? I think helmet should be compulstary in cars too , too many are killed from head injuries. one day it will happen just bad for hair style.
cheers
Good point John, just that I haven't noticed a lot of Bikes with stereos blazing :cool:
Not so sure about helmets in cars (good idea but can't see it happening)
Would look funny too :lol:
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Kind of still on topic.. I was in Launceston today and a bloke on a big BMW Bike had his stereo blasting quite loud :eek:
Dazz have you had to wear a helmet & listen to a stereo? I think helmet should be compulstary in cars too , too many are killed from head injuries. one day it will happen just bad for hair style.
cheers
Good point John, just that I haven't noticed a lot of Bikes with stereos blazing :cool:
Not so sure about helmets in cars (good idea but can't see it happening)
Would look funny too :lol:
Dazz back in 2000 Guildo a funny guy I know got a friend to fit stereo speakers to a sports bike just to have music on that long ride from Bondi Junction to Bondi Beach. I don't think there is another posser to rival Guildo but he is also a very funny man can make anyone laugh.
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Kind of still on topic.. I was in Launceston today and a bloke on a big BMW Bike had his stereo blasting quite loud :eek:
Dazz have you had to wear a helmet & listen to a stereo? I think helmet should be compulstary in cars too , too many are killed from head injuries. one day it will happen just bad for hair style.
cheers
Good point John, just that I haven't noticed a lot of Bikes with stereos blazing :cool:
Not so sure about helmets in cars (good idea but can't see it happening)
Would look funny too :lol:
all the race car drivers have to wear helmets in there race cars even on TV also the Stig wears one. it can help some peoples looks too LOL
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I think people would tend to drive faster if they wore helmets.. I know I used to when I wore driving gloves :whistler:
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Helmets in cars would dramatically increase theincidence of whiplash type neck injuries as the wearers are belted into their seats.
Race car drivers using helmets also have to use the HANS device which supports their head in an accident, reducing whiplash.
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beat me to it surferdude!!
turn the volume down, its got some horrid music...
http://youtu.be/0PXWpmSH-ao (http://youtu.be/0PXWpmSH-ao)
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Better whiplash than a caved in head! :lol:
Come on guys, if it's good enough for motorcyclists, it's good enough for car drivers.... :whistler:
Where are those who reckoned rules should be the same for bikes and cars now? :lol:
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I'm here.
When they start fitting seatbelts to motorbikes, I'll consider wearing a helmet in a car. :lol:
We all had to wear helmets doing police driver training at Wanneroo Raceway (Barbagallos).
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i a car a helmet restricts the view too much, the head rest gets in the way, getting in and out you are constantly bashing your head on the roof and you become very dependent on the rear vision mirrors...
more of a danger, and as you saw the extra weight causes more problems with out a hans device.
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agentr31, sorry other than the hans statement(for car use),can't agree with any of these comments,as for the extra weight comment,must be a hell of a lot of bike riders out there then with problems.
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You'd soon get used to it, Ian... :winker:
As for a HANS device, bahhhh....you'll survive without one.
If it's good enough for a motorcyclist to not have one, it's good enough for you... :whistler:
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agentr31, sorry other than the hans statement(for car use),can't agree with any of these comments,as for the extra weight comment,must be a hell of a lot of bike riders out there then with problems.
Hi NB(R). The key difference is that car drivers are belted into place. So the weight of the helmet pushing their head forward can cause not only whiplash but broken necks.
On a bike, the rider's whole body is moving forward. Sure they may well hit an immovable object but their head is generally not being wrenche dform their shoulders.
As to getting used to wearing a helmet in a car, true. You do. I've spent many hours in rally cars and on the track in a helmet with no issues.
On two occasions I've gone close to losing my head due to having a helmet on in what would have been minor incidents. One was a head on into a tree. Not serious in itself but the force of the helmet pushing my head forward in the sudden stop is not one I wish to experience again. The second was as a co-driver in a stadium off road event and as we dropped over a bank and bottomed out on the ground below, I happened to have my head down. So, I not only didn't see the bump coming, my neck was already just about at maximum downward stretch.
I was stiff and sore for weeks.
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Surferdude,Hence the reason I had agreed with the HANS statement,I have also been invovled in both Car and Bike motorsports in my younger days and believe me I have experienced almost fatal accidents in both,believe me I can understand where you are coming from but if it were not for a helmet in both cars and on bike I certainly wouldn't be here today.
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Surferdude,Hence the reason I had agreed with the HANS statement,I have also been invovled in both Car and Bike motorsports in my younger days and believe me I have experienced almost fatal accidents in both,believe me I can understand where you are coming from but if it were not for a helmet in both cars and on bike I certainly wouldn't be here today.
I think we're on the same page.
But my point is that in a road car,a helmet without a HANS device would only add to the risks in a majority (IMHO) of accidents. And the HANS device would definitely be too restrictive in a road car.
One more point regarding helmets in cars. At what age would they become mandatory on kids? Probably make sense once they are out of baby capsules. But imagine a young kid trying not to have his neck broken from the weight of a helmet in an accident.
So, I believe it's horses for courses in this matter. Helmets on motor cycles (only because seat belts and air bags aren't practical) and seat belts and air bags in cars.
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So, I believe it's horses for courses in this matter. Helmets on motor cycles (only because seat belts and air bags aren't practical) and seat belts and air bags in cars.
Agreed, I have enough trouble now getting the missus in the car , to get to where we're going on time, just imagine her working out how to put a helmet on so it didn't mess up her hair :scared: I just couldn't imagine having a hoarde of Kids having to deal with :whistler: yes lets stick with your horses for courses gig :lol:
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Just getting back on topic for a moment.... :whistler:
Here's what VicRoads had to say about front number plates & RFID's in their recent submission to the Parliamentary Inquiry into Motorcycle Safety....
“Between 2002 and 2008, VicRoads investigated the front Identification of motorcycles using decals (sticky labels) and fittings (brackets) to suit the many different designs of motorcycles
However, the Corporation was unable to develop a common decal type and fixing method that would be suitable for every motorcycle model. Decals were identified as being difficult to implement and as modern designs evolve, particularly for sports type motorcycles it will become more difficult to attach decals and mounting brackets. Other issues identified included a requirement for the fittings to be fixed by a certified installer and the associated costs. Consultation with senior officers of other transport agencies at that time indicated that a decal solution was not generally preferred.
In March 2009 the Standing Committee on Transport endorsed the Queensland Department of Transport and Main Roads (TMR) as the agency to lead the national development of a technology-based solution for identifying motorcycles. In undertaking this role, TMR commissioned a consultancy to examine Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) technologies and digital speed camera equipment to see how well RFID technology met the required performance criteria.
The examination concluded that RFID is not a practical solution to complement existing speed enforcement practices for the identification of motorcycles, and is unlikely to be for the foreseeable future and that new speed cameras that can target speeding motorcycles from the front and identify them from their rear plates are being trialled in Australia.”
Full submission: http://tinyurl.com/Vicroads-Submission (http://tinyurl.com/Vicroads-Submission)