The Original i30 Owners Club

THE GARAGE (SERVICE, MAINTENANCE & REPAIR) => DIESEL => Topic started by: mborkp on March 11, 2014, 05:53:53

Title: Frantz filter
Post by: mborkp on March 11, 2014, 05:53:53

I got one of those from my old 4x4 which is gone now. I wander if I should use it on my i30.
Worth of the job required to put it in?

Frantz Filters Australasia (http://www.frantzfilters.com.au/)
F.A.Q (http://www.frantzfilters.com.au/F.A.Q.htm#1)

Title: Re: Frantz filter
Post by: FatBoy on March 11, 2014, 07:23:34

If your i30 is still under warranty, then I would say "no, not worth it".

Remember that a new, genuine filter isn't that expensive.  Is it worth saving $40 now to cost you a new engine down the track?

Title: Re: Frantz filter
Post by: mborkp on March 12, 2014, 06:25:34

I think you misunderstood what the Frantz filter is. It is not replacement for the normal filter but addition (bypass filter).
It takes  continuously about 10% of oil flow and puts it trough a roll of toilet paper.
There is no better filtering method than this. The standard filter can't go too low in stopping very small particles. The reason is that the filter would get blocked pretty soon and reduce/stop the oil flow in the engine... disaster.

Using the additional Frantz filter will keep your oil "analytically clean".
This is not about saving, it is actually about spending more to keep your oil pristine clean.

EDIT: I can't find the book about oils which I red in the past, but if I remember properly the standard filter can't go lower than few microns, the frantz is filtering to the hundred of a micron or so.

Title: Re: Frantz filter
Post by: mborkp on March 12, 2014, 06:55:50

Amsoil maks his own bypass filtering. There is nice graph how it works: AMSOIL DUAL-GARD Oil Bypass System (https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/filters-and-by-pass-systems/by-pass/filters-and-mounts/dual-gard-oil-bypass-system/?page=%2fstorefront%2fbf.aspx)

The Frantz is exactly the same but instead of Amsoil cartridge it use a roll of toilet paper :)  (heve in mind thou that the paper have to be a specific grade!)

Title: Re: Frantz filter
Post by: mborkp on March 12, 2014, 07:06:39

Right, I've found the book and I need to correct myself:  Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible (http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible_pg2.html)

Standard filter can filter up to 20 microns

"Because it sits in-line, it has to be designed not to restrict the flow of oil around the circuit, and thus can only really be effective at stopping the larger particles. Large, in this case, is around the 20micron size. So here's the catch. The smallest contaminants are in the 10-20micron size range. Not only is that "extremely small", but it means that they pass right through the oil filter and back out into circulation. This is why regular oil changes are a necessity, because these tiny little things can be the most damaging."

The bypass filters can go as low as 5 micron (possible 1 micron)

"a secondary bypass oil filter. This is sort of like a filter in parallel with the primary one. It doesn't restrict the flow of oil in the main circuit, but the oil that passes through it is filtered down to the 5 micron range, thus removing even the smallest contaminants. The newest filters claim to work down to 1 micron, though I can't confirm nor deny those claims."

BTW, the whole book is a good reading :)
Cheers

Title: Re: Frantz filter
Post by: Phil №❶ on March 12, 2014, 09:21:34

Toilet rolls are for toileting.

Wouldn't use it in my vehicles.

Title: Re: Frantz filter
Post by: mborkp on March 13, 2014, 01:43:22

ohhh.... don't tell me you have never used things designed for one purpose to do something else :)
BTW in both cases the paper is used for cleaning   :happydance:

Title: Re: Frantz filter
Post by: Phil №❶ on March 13, 2014, 08:48:28

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

I've seen the toilet roll filtering done in a garage, but not installed in a vehicle.

Title: Re: Frantz filter
Post by: The Gonz on March 13, 2014, 10:16:37

The very notion of using soluble paper in a closed recirculating system seems wrong. :disapp:

Title: Re: Frantz filter
Post by: Phil №❶ on March 13, 2014, 10:25:52

The example I saw was just gravity fed and took days to filter oil. The oil WAS clean but I wouldn't use it in a engine again. Oil is a blend and complex formulation. After it's normal highly stressful period of service in an engine, it can't possibly have the correct formulation of oil grades.

I've filtered oil using a cloth and reused the oil as chain lubricant on my chainsaw, it's a bit thin, but still works fine.

Title: Re: Frantz filter
Post by: Aussie Keith on April 16, 2014, 10:08:48

I wouldn't put one on my vehicle though. Regular oil changes with normal use should be adequate. As I recall they were mostly intended for big engines in hard use such as 4wd and earthmoving machinery where such a filter might make economic sense.

Title: Re: Frantz filter
Post by: Hornet on November 08, 2014, 22:46:11

Correct Keith. In the 60's when the Franz filter was first introduced into Australia (by Kevin Jones in Brisbane) it was popular in the trucking industry. The manufacturer did not recommend the use of ordinary domestic toilet rolls and suggested the one available with the Franz label. On trucks the filter proved efficient and cost effective as it eliminated completley the need for oil changes, just replace the filter roll, top up the oil then keep driving.It was also used to filter diesel fuel.
I saw tests that claimed oil always retained viscosity and it was only the contamination the forced premature oil changes.  The large oil companies disputed this theory and rubbished Franz. Taxi operators in Brisbane tried these filters with some success but with the introduction of LPG in cabs the contamination of engine oil become much less a problem. Result was whilst the Franz was OK for petrol fueled taxi there was no real need them in LPG fueled units due to much lower contamination from the LPG fuel combustion.
The Franz should do no harm in the i30 but with modern engines and oils I think it would be overkill and a waste of money.

Title: Re: Frantz filter
Post by: cruiserfied on November 10, 2014, 08:42:51

Definately not an in warranty mod. If something came in with any engine issue and I found one of these on it, instantly voided.
I dont care what the results showed, id never use toilet paper (even approved brands) in engine oil. Maybe the one with a specific filter element.
Anyway engines have been running fine on regular filters for decades and oil and filter qualities are only getting better so on any general road car it should never be a problem.

Title: Re: Frantz filter
Post by: Phil №❶ on November 10, 2014, 09:32:03

The example of toilet roll filtering I saw was a gravity feed in the shed over a long period of time. It filtered beautifully, but toilet roll is only rated for 1 finger pressure, not engine oil pressures. If it disintegrated in situ and traveled through the motor, it would be disastrous. :fum:

Title: Re: Frantz filter
Post by: cruiserfied on November 10, 2014, 11:02:59

1 finger pressure is stretching it on some brands.

Title: Re: Frantz filter
Post by: FatBoy on November 10, 2014, 11:04:21

Quote from: cruiserfied on November 10, 2014, 11:02:59

1 finger pressure is stretching it on some brands.

I've found that it doesn't stretch, it tears.  Then you are in the poo.

Title: Re: Frantz filter
Post by: Phil №❶ on November 10, 2014, 11:07:33

What happens when Dawn breaks :question:

Title: Re: Frantz filter
Post by: The Gonz on November 10, 2014, 11:28:05

Is that a pooforation? :confused:

Title: Re: Filter Technology
Post by: BoKnowsDiesel on February 18, 2015, 18:47:22

Hello everyone,

I work for a filter company and I think I can shed some light on the topic. I understand it is a kind of old thread, but I have some good input. Our system has been designed to work with any engine big or small, gasoline or diesel. Here in the US, LPG hasn't been used for fuel in anything for quite some time (the last vehicle I saw was a tractor from the 1950s), but I would assume it would work well with that setup all the same. The toilet paper will NOT dissolve under any circumstances, while paper easily dissolves in water, oil is a completely different story. Even under the high pressures and high heat of a diesel, it stays completely in tact.

As far as what the benefits would be, you are constantly filtering down your oil to about 2 microns. For reference, the OE full flow filter will filter down to about 20 microns. This is not only filtering out all of the combustion products (i.e. soot), but also the very small wear metals every motor creates. When you take out all these contaminates, you greatly improve the engine life. Many people do use it to get longer intervals between oil changes, but if you do this, you need to do an oil analysis when you would normally change your oil to get a good idea of the usable life left in the oil. So long as the viscosity is good, soot and oxidation are low, and the TBN is good (5 TBN+) the oil is still safe to use. Our parent company also makes a full synthetic oil that has been used in semi trucks with bypass filters for 100K miles plus. Different application obviously but gives a reference on the actual durability of a high quality oil.

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Title: Re: Frantz filter
Post by: Dazzler on February 18, 2015, 20:41:12

Welcome Bo,

Thanks for that. I don't think any of our mods or admin will have an issue with your informative post.

It is good to see that you understand our rules don't allow advertising on the site.  :cool: