i30 Owners Club
GOT PROBLEMS OR ISSUES? => DIESEL => Topic started by: Mike8 on April 25, 2014, 10:55:26
-
Hi all, I'm new to this forum. I used to own an Excel, and loved it, so upgraded to the 2008 i30 CRDI. When I took it for a test drive, before I bought it, I noticed the fuel filter light flashed just once during the drive. The then owner said he had never noticed it.
I bought the car anyway, and immediately did a filters and oil service, thinking it may have condensation in the fuel filter. The problem was only very occasional, but it did continue to flash occassionally. Then, one day, I pulled out to overtake another vehicle, and my i30 just "died in the arse" - she wasn't going anywhere. Then I noticed the filter light was on. After a few seconds, it went out again, and full power returned.
After the next service (self performed), still no change, and the problem was becoming more frequent I tried my best to shake any contamination from the little sensor that screws onto the bottom of the filter, even blowing some compressed air (gently) on it.I eventually took it to my local Hyundai dealers, paid them about $250 to fix the problem, but within 200 metres of leaving their premises it was obviously not fixed. I didn't bother going back to them, as they also couldn't fix my Excel a year or two earlier, I had no confidence in them, and they have a poor reputation here anyway.
A couple of weeks ago, I took the car to a neighbouring town about 160kms away, where the Hyundai dealer has a better reputation. They said they couldn't find a fault, and determined that the sensor was faulty, and told me to replace it. I questioned the lack of power, and that if it was only a "dickie sensor", then it surely wouldn't lose power like it does. They thought it might be that the ECM might put it into limp home mode when it senses the light is on, but I don't buy that.
Has anyone experienced this before, or know what else in the car can cause the filter light to come on? Is there another water trap associated with the CRDI system?
Does anyone know where I can download a manual for this car. I did buy one about 6 mths ago, but it was about 16Gb, and had to get my computer shop to down load it for me, my monthly allowance is only 12Gb. But the file was corrupted, and unusable.
Any help appreciated.
Mike.
-
Hi Mike
Firstly, :wttc:
I can't answer your questions but I'm sure that someone with more mechanical knowledge will.
I would have been asking for my $250 back from the dealership though if they didn't fix it. :)
-
Friend has the 2009,he had a very similar problem,for some reason he jumped to the conclusion it was turbo related,his was as simple as changing the after market fuel filter for a Hyundai filter.
some after market filters are different mesh than Hyundai filters and can sometimes on certain cars collapse under the high pressure the fuel system runs at,buit like sucking to fast on an old paper straw,it will collapse and once the pressure is off and you look at it,it had gone back to it;s former shape,or like Hyundai say it could possibly be the sensor is dicky and giving an intermittent problem,much like how the faulty brake switches could send some vehicles into limp home mode(had that one happen to one of ours)
These intermittent niggling problems can sometimes be a bugger to find and when you do,you think well that makes sense,hope you find the problem
-
I wonder if this is related to the 3000rpm issue that a few members have reported over the years - the issue that seems to get fixed by fitting a new fuel filter?
-
First, I would be questioning what was done by the dealer for $250 and highlighting that the problem was fixed, for 200 metres. Either a refund or continued work on the car until the problem is identified and solved.
Next, has there been any contaminants in the old filters or evidence of water. You really need to get a filter and cut it open to see what's inside. In Australia, there seems to be a prevalence of Diesel bug which is an organic growth that lives in the layer of water & Diesel that can occur in your tank if you're unlucky enough to pick up water form a service station. Water can also occur as a result of normal use due to moisture laden air ingressing into the tank as the fuel is consumed by your engine. Over a long period of time, it can amount to a level where the water is picked up by the car's fuel intake. It then travels to the filter and is trapped at the water trap and in turn causes the sensor to illuminate on your dashboard. However, if the water is there long enough, you can get Diesel bug which is a tarry like substance which will stop your engine due to filter blockage and can cause damage to fuel pumps and injectors.
Some owners (me), use a Diesel bug eliminator to eliminate this problem.
I would suggest that you investigate these possibilities and let us know what you find.
Also, I would definitely be using a Hyundai filter for the fuel to eliminate any other outside causes.
-
Thanks for the advice folks. The $250 was to complete the 115K service, as I had only done filters and oil, and that included brake fluid change. But they reckoned they checked the problem with the light, cleared fault codes and "fixed it".
There is no evidence at all, that I can see, of any dirt or moisture contamination in the fuel filters. I've now changed it 3 times, and each time it looks pristine,/ I shake it out into a clean glass bowl, and not a drop of water or speck of dirt to be seen. But I'll order a Hyundai filter at the same time as I order the sensor. But if it doesn't fix it, I'll put the hard word on them to take it back and refund my cost for it, ($120+), since I have it in writing from them that they say it is the problem.
Thanks for the welcome mat, Doggie 1. I'll let you know how I go. Also, any ideas on the manual? The locals originally said they could get me a manual on CD, but the other agent referred me to Hyundai Australia, who flatly refused to provide a manual. I argued that as they were the manufacturers, they were the best placed placed, and certainly obliged, in my opinion, to provide the information necessary to safely carry out routine maintenance and repairs to the vehicle, and in no way should I be forced to take it to their workshops for repairs and maintenance that I'm perfectly capable of doing myself.I also stated to them, that if I had an accident, or the vehicle became unsafe because they were withholding important information from me, I would argue so in court, and try to hold them liable, for refusing to supply the information.
Cheers,
Mike.
-
@Mike8,
The workshop manual is huge, this is because the download contains every model of vehicle they make not just the i30. Your best bet is to search on line for a current model manual i.e. the i30 GD model. You actually own the FD model but this is of course included in the download. The program simply runs in your windows environment and doesn't require any virtual machine installation which can be a PITA. You could download over a month end and split the download size, but either way it will hit your internet usage significantly, this is the downside of fixed internet plans.
Hyundai are not obliged to provide you with a copy of information which is designed and owned by them, for their use only, just as any manufacturer of any goods will not supply service information on their products.
I'm glad you haven't found any water or foreign material in your filter inspections. How many k's has your vehicle traveled.
-
Stuff $120
$104 for Oil/Air/Diesel filters inc postage
Genuine Hyundai I30 Diesel AIR OIL Fuel Filter KIT | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GENUINE-HYUNDAI-i30-DIESEL-AIR-OIL-FUEL-FILTER-KIT-/271276508926?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AHyundai|Model%3Ai30&hash=item3f295706fe)
$74 just the filter inc postage
Genuine Hyundai KIA Iload Imax I30 Sportage Diesel Fuel Filter Z707 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GENUINE-HYUNDAI-KIA-iLoad-iMax-i30-SPORTAGE-DIESEL-FUEL-FILTER-Z707-/281040694333?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AHyundai|Model%3Ai30&hash=item416f54ac3d)
What filters are you using? I have previously used Ryco and Sydney Filters without problem....
-
Hi Mike,
The service manual is Intellectual Property of Hyundai, so they don't have to provide it to you. Also, if you do get a copy from the internet or on CD then it is probably in breach of copyright, and therefore probably illegal.
From my understanding, a caution light may cause the car to go into "limp" mode. The computer won't know if it is a real problem or not, so "limp" to protect the engine in case it is real.
I would take it back to the dealer who "fixed" it and tell them that they haven't fixed it. I would rather pay somebody to fix it, than change things myself, hoping it will fix it (and end up replacing things that don't need replacing),
-
Hi Mike, good to see you on board.
How about trying a bottle of Hyundai injector cleaner before you change the present fuel filter. This should clean the fuel lines, pump and injectors then put in the new filter and see how it goes. This might help but then it may not. Just a thought as it fixed a fuel problem for me several years ago.
I purchased a manual (on a DVD) from Ebay for $15 . They might be dearer now but try here
Hyundai Workshop Manual | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/bhp/hyundai-workshop-manual)
There are plenty of other sites
Good luck and I hope you fix the problem as the i30 CRDI is a great vehicle.
-
:wttc: mike8
-
Hi Guys, thanks for the advice. Yes, I will try injector cleaner, and I will also try a genuine hyundai fuel filter. I NEVER buy supermarket fuel, usually only from a near new servo in my town (can't remember the brand, but not one of the big names).
Thanks Fatboy, but the reason I'm on the forum, is because I'm trying to find the real cause of the problem, and not just replace this and that until I stumble upon the culprit, which is what Hyundai seem to want to do. They have "recommended" I replace the water sensor, I don't think they actually diagnosed it to be faulty, they're just guessing, I'm sure. The reason I don' believe it's the sensor, is that would mean the sensor is faulty, which is causing the light to come on, and there is no "real" problem. However, the light coming on is usually accompanied by a bit of a "diesel rattle, or clatter", and a loss of power, but not always at exactly the same time as the light flashes. So I believe the light is reporting a real problem, but from something other than the sensor on the bottom of the fuel filter. Hence, why I want the workshop manual, so that I can look at the circuit diag and see if there is anything else on that light circuit that may turn it on. If hyundai had their way, they would replace things they "think" are faulty, and when it turns out they aren't, they won't want to refund me for the cost of the parts and labour they replaced for nothing.Besides, who wants to pay somebody else $115 per hour, to do a job they are perfectly capable of doing themselves? Not me, friend!
And yes, I LLLLOOOOOOOOOOOVVE my i30!!! I was going to buy a new i20 last year, because I love Hyundais, and wanted a small car that I could rip the engine out of in a couple of years time and convert to battery/solar electric, and was going to pay about $14,000, but I found my local Hyundai dealer to be less than helpful with a couple of criticisms I had after a test drive. Then I discovered that the i30 came in a diesel version, and managed to find a good 2nd hand one here, 6 years old, for 10.5k, so still had enough money left over to buy a good parachute :faint: When I took it for a test drive, I was gob smacked by it's performance. Almost as giood as my old twin cam Excel!! I get between 5 and 6 l/100k, the best was 3.0, exactly 200kms on highway, exactly 6 litres! I'm stoked with it.
Anyway, that's enough raving for now,
Cheers, Mike.
-
Unfortunately Mike, unless it's an A380, there isn't going to be a definitive answer to what your fault is without going on a witch hunt. The advice given here is as a result of some members actual experience, but that was their car, not yours. You mention that the car is pre owned, so no one actually knows all of the car's history since new, except Hyundai and if it was them, that maintained the vehicle.
The ECU logs errors but quite simplistically IMO, so not too much value there. Sometimes there is a fault and because an error has not been logged, Hy become very reluctant to resolve any issues. At $115 per hour you can understand why. Servicing and fault finding is an area that Hyundai have not got under control and with increasing sales each year, I suspect, won't improve greatly in the near future, worldwide.
You mentioned a change in engine noise, do not leave ANYTHING out when describing to us here as it could be quite relevant.
Does the engine "sound" sound like it does at idle or some other sound, how long does it last :question:
2008 U1 Fuel Filter Schematic.pdf - Google Drive (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8ANHWfNw-qjN1ZQS2YzSXMxZUk/edit?usp=sharing)
-
Mike8, I note you reside in Central Queensland. Near Bundaberg?
Just a thought that I may be able to lend you the DVD Manual or if it does not breach copyright burn you a copy.
-
Nice offer, Hornet :goodjob:
-
Just a thought that I may be able to lend you the DVD Manual or if it does not breach copyright burn you a copy.
Just having that DVD manual is probably a breach of copyright.... :whistler: :lol:
Nice offer though... :goodjob:
-
... I have previously used Ryco and Sydney Filters without problem....
Thanks, Beerman. My local mechanic uses Ryco gear and Firty's due for her 60k, so I'm pleased to hear it. :hatoff:
-
I've used Ryco filters since day dot with both Bruce and Cyril,once I found out how much Ripoff Hyundai wanted for a fuel filter,never once(touch wood) had an issue
-
Hi fellas, it’s interesting to see the chat about filter brands and prices. I said I would get a Hyundai filter, so called in at my local dealer yesterday to buy one, and was asked for over $150!!! I said I didn’t need it that badly. I already had the Ryco in the boot. That’s daylight flamin’ robbery, 150 as opposed to a Ryco for $29!
I honestly don’t think the filter is the problem. My next step is to order the fuel moisture sensor, but I’ll get that from the dealer that last looked at it, and diagnosed it faulty, just in case it’s not the problem.
This afternoon, I tried to accelerate away from a roundabout, and it just would not get over 3000 rpm, like it was rev limited. The filter light was on. Would that be “limp home” mode? Also, there was no abnormal sound today. But sometimes, the strange noise I hear is just like an older style, “agricultural” type diesel engine, with the more pronounced and distinct diesel rattle.
Thanks for the offer of the manual on cd, but I might be right. I’m still waiting to hear from an Ebay seller, as to wether his manual covers the diesel. I heard back from one seller so far, ironically in Bundy, and his doesn’t. If not though, I do come down to Bundaberg a couple of.times a month, and would appreciate the offer. Even if I can only print off the wiring diagram, that would help me.
Cheers,
Mike.
-
Mike 8,
PM Jeux, he has them available in PDF, he can email it to you :)
-
There are quite a few sellers of oem filters NEVER BUY FROM THE DEALER. It simply isn't necessary.
Hyspares, eBay etc
-
Mike 8,
PM Jeux, he has them available in PDF, he can email it to you :)
Wrong manual, Reaps... :)
Jeux has the manual that comes with the car, not a workshop manual...
-
Hi all, thanks for the replies, and sorry for my long periods between visits, but I'm fairly busy, and don't get a lot time to get on here.
But now, an update as to what I have done. Last Saturday avo, I did the 145k service, (at almost 147k, thanks to my local Auto**** parts store taking the best part of 5 weeks to get my oil filters in for me). Once again, no sign of any contamination in the fuel filter or moisture sensor, so this time, I tapped into the three wire of the sensor, and added an extra cable which I have run through to the passenger compartment, so that I can monitor the sensor. I found one of the wires was earth (-ve), one was at 12volts with the ignition on, and the third one must be the sensor output, and it was at 0volts with the light off. I made up a little LED with a simple transistor amp to drive it, so as not to load up the output of the sensor (just in case it was a low level signal, and may have affected it). So now I can see the output of the sensor, and it mimicks the dashboard warning lamp exactly. Now, if only I had a circuit diagram for the car, and could confirm that there is nothing else connected to that wire, to eliminate the possibility that there is still another switch or sensor that can also turn the light on, then I can be certain that it is the sensor on the fuel filter that is at fault.
I think I've also determined what is causing the problem in the sensor..... heat!! It is reasonably close to the exhaust manifold, it never exhibits the fault when cold, mainly if the car has sat for 30 minutes or so after a good run, and I get in it and go for another drive. Then it's real bad for the first 5 - 10 minutes, until, I guess, the air flow of driving cools it down a little. Also, when I bought the car, it was last May, and the car had not been run before I took it for a drive, i.e. it was cold then. The problem was at its worst during Summer, and now the weather has cooled down again, it's no where near as prevalent. Also, the different sound I hear when it is going slow, must be due to a different operating mode, such as "limp home" mode. So, I think a new sensor should fix it.
I still haven't located a workshop manual, so if anyone has a link to a website that has one for the Diesel, I would much appreciate it. Otherwise, I might get onto Hornet, and take him up on his offer.
Cheers all, and thanks for your input,
Mike.
-
Mike 8,
PM Jeux, he has them available in PDF, he can email it to you :)
Wrong manual, Reaps... :)
Jeux has the manual that comes with the car, not a workshop manual...
ooops... :-[
Wasnt paying enough attention.....
-
Notice, the fuel filter also has a thermostat and heater built in, perhaps you should check this out as well. Fuel is limited when fuel temp approaches 120 Deg C to protect the injectors and high pressure fuel pump.
Here are some specs which may help you.
CRDI fuel system specs 2009 u1 engine.pdf - Google Drive (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8ANHWfNw-qjTDNQZFJrdXJJVkU/edit?usp=sharing)
-
Sounds good Mike, much too complicated for me but hope it works for you. Also hope you get a manual like mine soon. Mine has thousands of pages covers everything but I doubt that I could change a tyre these days, just to old for that now but I would love to be getting grease on my hands like you.
Good luck might catch up with you one day in Central Queensland.
-
Thanks Hornet, I'm sure I'll get one sooner or later. Yep, I come down to Bundy occassionally, so would love to catch up and compare notes. Thanks for the input.
Cheers.
-
Limp Home Mode (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=18716.0) ??
-
Hi, Did you have your problem solved with Diesel filter light? I have mine flashing constantly...
-
Hi, Yes, I fixed it..... disconnected the water in fuel sensor! I'm still looking for one at a reasonable price. Call me tight, but I don't feel like giving Hyundai $140 for such a simple part. Since I'm doing a service every 10,000km, and I've never seen a single drop of water in the fuel, I feel quite comfortable about it.
Cheers.
-
As insurance, you should consider putting some Diesel treatment through your system.
Being in tropical Queensland have you experienced heavy rain ad or humid air conditions. It is quite natural for moisture in air to condense in fuel tanks and over time, a layer can build up and cause problems in the future. it is a standard pre-flight check on all aircraft, for the very same reason. :idea:
-
You might find it here, I bought very cheap parts for my car. They're not very quick to deliver, took about 3 weeks...
If I remember correct I payed ca 85 Euro for 3 parts my local Hyundai dealer wanted 310 Euro for..!
:link: KORAPS - KORea Auto Parts Service - HYUNDAI KIA GM SSANGYONG RENAULT Genuine Parts! Low Price! (http://koraps.com/)
-
I dont know if this helps but my "water in diesel" light came on and stayed on last year. Luckily the car was still under its 5 year warranty so I phoned the RAC and they sent a van to my house. The guy actually pulled the pump out of the car on my driveway but only after he tested the diesel. There's a lot of dodgy fuel laundering in these parts so it's worth going to reputable, usually supermarket garages to fill up which I had been doing. He replaced it and the light was out. Next morning it was back on again. I booked it in with the dealers but between that and me going it went out again and touch wood it's stayed that way ever since. I cancelled the appointment.