i30 Owners Club
OFF TOPIC => WORLD NEWS => General => Topic started by: Doggie 1 on December 15, 2014, 10:11:40
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Thoughts with those poor hostages and their families.
Here's hoping for all of the innocents to be freed safely and just one death.
:link: Martin Place cafe: Five hostages escape, terrorist siege still active (http://www.news.com.au/national/a-man-is-holding-several-people-hostage-at-martin-place-cafe/story-fncynjr2-1227156241649)
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Those 5 early releases look promising. :)
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Yes.
I hope they are all released safely -1.
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Assuming this is an IMG that values martyrdom, I think life behind bars is a better message.
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I would like to see one less death than Doggie would. You wouldn't want to make a martyr out of him.
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Assuming this is an IMG that values martyrdom, I think life behind bars is a better message.
I understand that, but I hope he dies.
I don't want any of my taxes to go towards maintaining a lowlife like that.
He might recognise martyrdom. I don't.
Happy to disagree. :hatoff:
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I don't believe in martyrdom either, but other people of his religious faith do, and it might encourage more.
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True.
But I'm for western values in our western country.
I'm not changing my views to fit in with whatever their beliefs might be.
Kill or threaten to kill our citizens in the name of whatever - see ya.
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Thoughts with the hostages and those who run towards something everyone else runs away from. They are all under tremendous pressure.
I don't think old mate will talk so what happens to him is immaterial.
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Adrenalin levels through the roof, every second a potential decider, anticipation way ahead of reflection, long hours putting physical comfort last, entrusting your safety to teamwork... all feels familiar.
All the best to the boys and girls on the job. :victory:
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Just one of the many articles reported here
:link: 5 flee as Sydney cafe siege goes on - BT (http://home.bt.com/news/world-news/5-flee-as-sydney-cafe-siege-goes-on-11363949955660)
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Adrenalin levels through the roof, every second a potential decider, anticipation way ahead of reflection, long hours putting physical comfort last, entrusting your safety to teamwork... all feels familiar.
All the best to the boys and girls on the job. :victory:
:agreed:
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The televised footage of todays events is exactly what this guy and his cause wanted, imo they should have shot him in the head five minutes after he was discovered and let that be a message to those scumbags... anyone else tries this crap again and you'll get the same treatment.
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Too bad that'll never happen in this country :(
1 man with a pump action shotgun which he's wearing on his back from the reports. Dunno if I could have held on 13 hours without at least trying to take him down. But that's me talking from my nice safe kitchen :)
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The televised footage of todays events is exactly what this guy and his cause wanted, imo they should have shot him in the head five minutes after he was discovered and let that be a message to those scumbags... anyone else tries this crap again and you'll get the same treatment.
Easy solution in theory.
Until you discover old mate you just shot in the head is actually a paranoid schizophrenic with delusions.....
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So little information, so much speculation. Let's trust the experts with the intel to think strategically, meaning big-picture consequences.
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All will become clear in time. Hopefully with all the hostages safe and well.
What I am becoming annoyed with is the media's need to fill blank time with speculation and mindless chatter, regardless of what effect it might have.
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The televised footage of todays events is exactly what this guy and his cause wanted, imo they should have shot him in the head five minutes after he was discovered and let that be a message to those scumbags... anyone else tries this crap again and you'll get the same treatment.
Easy solution in theory.
Until you discover old mate you just shot in the head is actually a paranoid schizophrenic with delusions.....
Personally the same solution would resolve that problem also :goodjob2:
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My prediction is suicide with no hostages injured.
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My prediction is that in the wee small hours it will get extremely dark in the centre of Sydney, and men dressed in black with NVGs and will enter the building, capturing the criminal and releasing the hostages.
Or not.
50/50 chance. Something like that will happen, or it won't.
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You've been watching too much 24 or homelands....
Or
Die hard fims
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Sorry, OMO any person found guilty of Islamic extremism In Australia should be put on a plane and sent back the where the problem originated, whether their Australian Born,Imports or converts.
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All over, 3 dead (one is the assailant ) and 3 injured :disapp: they should know how these things always end and should have shot him straight off this morning before anyone else gets hurt.
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Australia commandos end Sydney cafe siege
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-30485355
Who is other?
Friend or foe?
Who shot them?
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They are not commandos, their TRG police - Tactical Response Group.
Other person killed was a customer/hostage/friend plus another hostage has just died from a heart attack
Police shot gunman after he shot hostage.
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What I am becoming annoyed with is the media's need to fill blank time with speculation and mindless chatter, regardless of what effect it might have.
:MeToo:
The televised footage of todays events is exactly what this guy and his cause wanted, imo they should have shot him in the head five minutes after he was discovered and let that be a message to those scumbags... anyone else tries this crap again and you'll get the same treatment.
I know (for various reasons) they couldn't do this ... but at the same time I tend to have similar thoughts to Craig...
As usual it was a media beat up with a lot of unnecessary repeating of the same 10 minutes of footage. They revel in the footage of overseas TV broadcasts and quotes from overseas leaders etc... I think the media causes a lot of the stress for the immediate family of the hostages and other directly effected people. :fum:
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There may have been Commandos there. 2nd Commando Regiment is Sydney based and operate and train regularly with police forces.
A sad outcome. Three too many deaths.
Let us not be armchair hostage/terroist 20/20 hindsight experts. Let us see what the official outcome is.
My thoughts are with all of those involved.
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Like others have already said I feel deeply for those who lost family in this mindless act and for the hostages who will no doubt be affected in some way for the rest of their lives. :disapp:
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Given his string of convictions, what was this looney still doing loose on our streets? I don't get it. :disapp:
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Given his string of convictions, what was this looney still doing loose on our streets? I don't get it. :disapp:
My thoughts exactly, Gonz.
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Given his string of convictions, what was this looney still doing loose on our streets? I don't get it. :disapp:
It is because we don't have a Justice System, we have a Legal System.
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Given his string of convictions, what was this looney still doing loose on our streets? I don't get it. :disapp:
It is because we don't have a Justice System, we have a Legal System.
Run by do-gooders who care more about rehabilitating the perpetrator than helping the victims.
The do-gooders include most judges, magistrates and lawyers, not to mention Terry O'Gorman. :fum:
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It will be interesting to see what can be learned from this mess.
Hopefully they can rein in this unhelpful lot next time: :link: Media coverage of Sydney siege shameful (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/comment/blunt-instrument/media-coverage-of-sydney-siege-shameful-20141216-127wa6.html)
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It will be interesting to see what can be learned from this mess.
Hopefully they can rein in this unhelpful lot next time: :link: Media coverage of Sydney siege shameful (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/comment/blunt-instrument/media-coverage-of-sydney-siege-shameful-20141216-127wa6.html)
Especially Ray Hadley. :disapp:
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Given his string of convictions, what was this looney still doing loose on our streets? I don't get it. :disapp:
My thoughts exactly, Gonz.
And mine.
Accessory after the fact to the murder of his first wife who was thrown down the stairs and set alight.
Should have been dealt with properly then.
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It will be interesting to see what can be learned from this mess.
Hopefully they can rein in this unhelpful lot next time: :link: Media coverage of Sydney siege shameful (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/comment/blunt-instrument/media-coverage-of-sydney-siege-shameful-20141216-127wa6.html)
Great article (that is exactly my thoughts about the whole media circus) :goodjob:
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In discussions today with my overseas colleagues around the world they are all expressing alarm over the "terrorist attack" on the coffee shop. Coffee shops of course are well known as high value terrorist targets. :head_butt:
The story of a random nutcase with a gun is far less newsworthy it seems.
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Sorry, but some people are going to disagree with me, on this topic.
AFAIC, the shot should have been taken at the 1st opportunity. Kill him and let him go searching for his virgins. No demands, no talk, no public broadcast of images, just a quick death.
These extremists have shown that negotiations only work one way, their way, let's not play their game.
A great amount of media coverage has been displayed recently about taking innocents at random and beheading them in Australia, provoking horror among ordinary people, has not the same inevitable result occurred to 2 innocents simply using a different method.
My thoughts go to everyone affected by yesterday's events, particularly the little children who have to fathom out what happened to their Mum.
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Phil, I can see a number of problems with that approach. Whilst I would be just as willing as you to see him taken out, in the early stages, no one was sure how many gunmen there were.
Reports listed two for quite some time. Even after that when some people manged to escape, there was no guarantee that he didn't have explosives on him.
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That's the only reason I would have problems with that.
He may have been wired and everyone might have been killed if a sniper had taken him out.
I'm sure the experts would have considered all options and they would have chosen to do what they did for very good reasons.
As soon as the shot was heard from within the cafe, plan B kicked into action.
The welfare of the hostages would have been paramount.
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. Dunno if I could have held on 13 hours without at least trying to take him down.
I am with you here
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:wts: :goodjob2:
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He wasn't an extremist Phil, he was a person with a mental illness and a gun. He espoused radical views and yet he was not affiliated with any groups. They actively disowned him I hear. He was known to be violent and irrational, possibly a manifestation of his mental state rather than an association with his particular political views.
It is reported he was Muslim but this is of no consequence. Martin Bryant was not a Muslim and look at the havoc he caused. This is a tragically similar incident in many respects. There is absolutely no reason to bring race or religion into this discussion - its not a factor. The media have done a great disservice to the nation in this respect.
They need to learn some restraint with the manure they spread. Its powerful stuff.
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I might be old school, but like other people on here who have served their country and the thousands upon thousands who have served and given their life to keep this country free as it is, I have no hesitation of taking this clown out or any other who wants to change what we fought for. They keep forgetting that we fought for this country, they didn't and we as Australians will always band together to keep these insurgents out...that is the Australian way.......(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTXAyqWeWUZ5YUqp5BhNAaVsRYon4XPCqu3I79luDzTDqWAMEnAeg)
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Yet the two most recent active service people on this forum, who have both served in the Middle East; and an ex-Policeman, say that what the NSW Police did in this instance was correct. They didn't know what he had. Did he have a "dead man's switch" attached to an explosive device? Did he have people on the outside waiting to explode devices if he died (BTW, he claimed he did)? Could the police have a "clear shot" at the person? The building was an ex-bank, with thicker glass. What does a bullet do when it hits something? It tumbles and doesn't follow the intended path. THIS WASN'T A MOVIE!!!
Google the demands that he made (you can find them with a brief search), and see what the Police were dealing with.
20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing.
:head_butt:
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It is reported he was Muslim but this is of no consequence. Martin Bryant was not a Muslim and look at the havoc he caused. This is a tragically similar incident in many respects. There is absolutely no reason to bring race or religion into this discussion - its not a factor. The media have done a great disservice to the nation in this respect.
Let us not overlook the fact that he obtained and displayed an ISIS flag for all to see - presumably to emphasise he was a supporter of the brutal ISIS caliphate..
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It is reported he was Muslim but this is of no consequence. Martin Bryant was not a Muslim and look at the havoc he caused. This is a tragically similar incident in many respects. There is absolutely no reason to bring race or religion into this discussion - its not a factor. The media have done a great disservice to the nation in this respect.
Let us not overlook the fact that he obtained and displayed an ISIS flag for all to see - presumably to emphasise he was a supporter of the brutal ISIS caliphate..
But it wasn't an ISIS flag. One of his demands was an ISIS flag.
It was a piece of cloth with the Arabic words "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is His prophet."
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(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTXAyqWeWUZ5YUqp5BhNAaVsRYon4XPCqu3I79luDzTDqWAMEnAeg)
Are you in that picture? :D
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The words Arse Clown are under utilised in modern journalism.....But I would point out that if people didn't watch the constant news coverage, the networks would soon get the message (but I suspect they get to fill their screens cheaply using staff they already have at their disposal and are already paying).
There are plenty of things that could have been done differently, would they have had a different result, no one will know. The point about the sniper is really mute because by the time the appropriate team got into position, the hostages were barricading the window.
What I do know is by attempting to negotiate, numerous hostages were able to escape the stronghold. As soon as the situation changed and the hostages lives were materially threatened, they went in, armed with a plan, intelligence of the lay out of the inside of the building and less hostages who could be caught in the crossfire.
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It is reported he was Muslim but this is of no consequence. Martin Bryant was not a Muslim and look at the havoc he caused. This is a tragically similar incident in many respects. There is absolutely no reason to bring race or religion into this discussion - its not a factor. The media have done a great disservice to the nation in this respect.
Let us not overlook the fact that he obtained and displayed an ISIS flag for all to see - presumably to emphasise he was a supporter of the brutal ISIS caliphate..
But it wasn't an ISIS flag. One of his demands was an ISIS flag.
It was a piece of cloth with the Arabic words "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is His prophet."
Media misreporting again. Most reports around the world identified it (incorrectly) as an ISIS flag.
BTW. One of the hostages early in the piece texted that she was being held by an ISIS gunman so it's quite possible he identified himself to the hostages as such.
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Sad that any madman with a gun or bomb is automatically a terrorist. :disapp:
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This link is an interesting and IMHO a well balanced read. The guy is a Macquarie University (Sydney) lecturer..
:link: The Narrative Must Shift: Randa Abdel-Fattah On The Need For A New Conversation | newmatilda.com (https://newmatilda.com/2014/12/16/narrative-must-shift-randa-abdel-fatah-need-new-conversation)
The first comment by one Iain Hall isn't typical of the following comments but it demonstrates exactly what true Muslims face every day in Australia - and many other parts of the world.
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Sad that any madman with a gun or bomb is automatically a terrorist. :disapp:
His purpose in that shop yesterday, was to inflict terror on the poor unfortunates, which he did, mad or not.
With the police record he had and if he was insane, the public streets were not the place for him.
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I'm in full agreement. Hence my original question: why on Earth was he loose? I hope attention turns to the overly liberal legal types. As Jamie said, we have a legal, not justice, system, and I know from personal experience as an expert witness that the courtroom process has little to do with truth. :disapp:
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I can see this whole episode being repeated. Soon. By certain groups who might see it as a "victory"...
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I'm in full agreement. Hence my original question: why on Earth was he loose? I hope attention turns to the overly liberal legal types. As Jamie said, we have a legal, not justice, system, and I know from personal experience as an expert witness that the courtroom process has little to do with truth. :disapp:
It is unfortunate that the only people who have zero accountability over their decisions are those in the judiciary. The worst that can happen to them is their decision is overturned on appeal.....
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I'm in full agreement. Hence my original question: why on Earth was he loose? I hope attention turns to the overly liberal legal types. As Jamie said, we have a legal, not justice, system, and I know from personal experience as an expert witness that the courtroom process has little to do with truth. :disapp:
It is unfortunate that the only people who have zero accountability over their decisions are those in the judiciary. The worst that can happen to them is their decision is overturned on appeal.....
Dare we hope that the fact that their ineptitude has this time cost the life of one of their own, might make them more careful in their decisions?
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As I have stated on this thread, I believe the authorities were in the best position to determine the best course of action at the scene. I am sure that they acted with the hostages in mind at all times.
As for whether or not the gunman was a terrorist......
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
IMO he was absolutely a terrorist in every sense of the word.
As for being (just :undecided:) a madman, he's not alone there in the terrorist world. They're all mad.
He identified himself as having an allegiance to ISIS during his reign of terror and he sought to further the terrorists' cause and he struck fear into the hearts and minds of ordinary, peace loving Australians.
Good riddance.
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I will not mourn his passing.
He wasn't on any "watch" list as he hadn't been in contact with any ISIS people overseas or recognised Australian operatives. I do agree that he was a terrorist though, in every sense of the word. More likely a "lone wolf" as the authorities have said.
BTW, how many terrorists have acted in the name of atheism? While not all religious people are terrorists, all terrorists are religious.
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Religion is a personal choice.
If your religion requires you to actively persecute or harm another person, or allow you to judge the worth of someone, religious or not, based on what you've been taught, you're most likely following the wrong religion.
And before anyone comments, this applies to Christianity as well. History is full of barbaric crusades in the name of religion.
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Thanks Phil!! I do disagree with one of your comments. Religion isn't a personal choice. You will very rarely see Christian children of Muslim parents, nor Muslim children of Buddhist parents (insert any religion into any of the previous choices). It even goes down to flavour of religion, for example, you will generally not be baptised a Catholic unless at least one of your parents are.
Religion is indoctrinated into children at a very young age. They are the same religion as their parents (generally). And that always happens to be the right one. :head_butt:
There are many religious people that do wonderful things for fellow humans in the name of their God, however there are also people that will kill in the same name.
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I agree, Fatboy.
I was thinking more along the lines of an adult decision to continue religion, but I do concede that indoctrination starts in childhood and the flavour as well, they are good points.
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Thanks Phil. Is it my shout or your shout for coffee / beer / scotch when we eventually catch up?
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:D
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I just saw this on another forum. I really hope that it is fake.
(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/AGRSSV/12BC09EF-1B8F-490B-9F30-E753F10B2525_zpsho90tfpc.jpg)
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I hope so too! :Shocked: Surely a google will bring up some more info!
Nope! Nothing refuting it so far! :undecided:
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:Shocked:
If genuine, that deserves a massive backlash. What a moron. :disapp:
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A true demonstration of the dangers of social media and how it can be manipulated. I hope it's a fake, too.
I have nothing to do with this concept, at all. :fum:
If it's not fake, then it is a callous piece of political opportunism. Never did like the Greens.
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I never thought to look at her facebook page! :head_butt: (I'll have a look now!)
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This is what she actually said on her Facebook page (unless she changed it)
"We are absolutely devastated to learn of the tragic end to the hostage incident in Sydney.
We extend our greatest sympathies and thoughts to all those affected by this incredible tragedy.
To the victims, their families and friends, police and health workers, and to anyone around the nation watching at home impacted by this morning’s tragic events our hearts go out to you.
It is critical that the nation comes together today.
We should comfort one another and open our arms in warm embrace to all peace-loving people regardless of faith, race or nationality.
We commend the courage and professionalism of the police and other emergency services involved."
But I still don't like her.. :lol:
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:whsaid:
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Apparently the post that I posted on my post was posted first. Then that post was removed, edited and reposted in the form that Dazz has put up on his post. Thanks for posting that reposted post, Dazz.
I think that she has been hacked, and that somebody else who doesn't like the Greens put that up. I didn't think that she would write the "political idealology" or "vote for the Greens".
I still don't like her or the Greens.
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May not be what she was saying, but perhaps what she was thinking.
Though it does have a point about mental health.....The recent shooting on the Gold Coast, old mate had been taken for assessment the morning before he thought it was a good idea to run at police with a weapon.
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Thanks Phil!! I do disagree with one of your comments. Religion isn't a personal choice. You will very rarely see Christian children of Muslim parents, nor Muslim children of Buddhist parents (insert any religion into any of the previous choices). It even goes down to flavour of religion, for example, you will generally not be baptised a Catholic unless at least one of your parents are.
Religion is indoctrinated into children at a very young age. They are the same religion as their parents (generally). And that always happens to be the right one. :head_butt:
There are many religious people that do wonderful things for fellow humans in the name of their God, however there are also people that will kill in the same name.
All of which tends to highlight what a wonderful set of parents my second daughter-in-law has. He was a ship's captain, was hospitalised in Holland and fell in love with and married one of his nurses.
He was (and is) a Pakistani Muslim. She was (and is) Catholic. Their daughter was born and spent her pre school years on ships with her parents. They then spent years back in Pakistan. She is according to Pakistani law a Muslim (because her father is) and always will be. Living in Karachi - no appearance in public without her father or a member of his family. Eventually she went to high school and university in England and Belgium. Although it must always have been hidden, her father has never had a problem with her being raised as a Catholic.
Now, living in Australia and married to an infidel (an atheist no less :whistler:) if she ever returned to Pakistan she would be arrested for her "marriage" to a non - Muslim.
I worry about her parents though. They're still living in Islamabad. As in South Africa, for safety you need to be in gated communities.
A wonderful, intelligent woman degree qualified in engineering and a great addition to our family.
My wife worked with a Pakistani Muslim in Sydney for years. His wife was also Pakistani but their daughters were born here. My wife asked him once if his wife wore a head covering. No, he said. This is a free country and she chooses not to.
There are some (probably most) wonderful Muslims in the world.
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Be hard to have a conversation in that house without treading on someone's toes inadvertently, of course. :eek:
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Be hard to have a conversation in that house without treading on someone's toes inadvertently, of course. :eek:
Her Dad has a great sense of humour, loves cricket (of course). Her parents spent weeks out here before the wedding two years ago and were guests in our house several times. Fitted in no trouble at all. TBH, I find the mother more difficult to deal with.
At the wedding her dad placed a full glass of beer in front of him at the head table and then had me take a pic of him with it (not drinking of course) so he could show his mates back home.
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:lol: :goodjob2:
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I just saw this on another forum. I really hope that it is fake.
(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/AGRSSV/12BC09EF-1B8F-490B-9F30-E753F10B2525_zpsho90tfpc.jpg)
:fum:
This idiot or her party will NEVER represent me.
What a moron.
She can water it down all she likes now. We all know where she is coming from.
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:whsaid: :goodjob2:
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In fairness, there is now a post on her Fb page claiming it to be a fake.
I wonder? :undecided:
I guess we should give her the benefit of the doubt until/unless proven otherwise.
P.S. I still consider her an idiot and she will still never represent me.
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No, this is how pollies work, 2 steps forward, 1 step back. Don't be fooled. :fum:
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No, this is how pollies work, 2 steps forward, 1 step back. Don't be fooled. :fum:
:lol:
I'm not being.
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That was a global statement, not any specific individual, Doggie1. :mrgreen:
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That was a global statement, not any specific individual, Doggie1. :mrgreen:
And taken as such.