i30 Owners Club
GENERAL STUFF => GENERAL DISCUSSIONS => Random Chit Chat => Topic started by: ibrokeit on February 23, 2015, 14:22:53
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So I am interested in maybe acquiring an FD-01 headunit (one of those, apparently, AU only units) to replace the PA-710 in my 2010 i30cw - for the bluetooth capability. For those who are wondering what I am talking about see: :link: Aust - FD i30 - Missing Outside Temp. Here is how to fix it! (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=23118) for a bit of a write up.
My current hands-free unit, that plugs between the PA-710 and speakers, seems to be getting more 'flakey' lately.
So I decided to be complete and inquire on the price of a new unit from Hyundai - though I wasn't expecting the answer to be agreeable. The price quoted $2447.26 inc GST - yup basically $2.5k
The part number given was '96160-2L4004X'; description 'RADIO ASSY-ETR' - a quick search online reveals this part number is the same for the PA-710 and others - so seems to be the entire assembly as well as the head-unit. As it was not mentioned specifically - I must trust the answer was for the FD-01 (as asked) rather than the 'right' part for an 2010 i30 (as the FD-01 seems to be a post-2010 development).
Needless to say I will be looking for a used unit from a wreckers.
Cheers
ibrokeit
P.S. I disappeared for a little bit - I may post about it, as it does involve two i30 (is there plural? an i30? two i30'ie?) and a Getz, but is also somber in a number of respects.
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Id go looking for a good used one.
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Hi ibrokeit be interested to hear the story!
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Id go looking for a good used one.
Definitely - when I do might be another story.
I can sought of get it being expensive (not 2.5k though) - a part that, if it fails, will either do so soon after delivery or outside of warranty. They probably rarely do either way. Was custom (apparently) to AU market and fits the previous generation(s) of a couple of models - I don't know if this was an 'option' (which would have increased potential stock levels). But if you have limited residual stock (and also you won't want to stock to many - as that costs too) levels you will want to protect them for claims - which you can do by pricing.
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G'day mate,
I have seen the head unit you refer to on ebay for around $120 plus postage.
Only one I can see at the moment is $200 delivered.
:link: 2011 Hyundai I30 Silver 5DOOR Hatch Manual Stereo | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2011-HYUNDAI-I30-SILVER-5DOOR-HATCH-MANUAL-STEREO-/321659605443?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item4ae46811c3)
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G'day mate,
I have seen the head unit you refer to on ebay for around $120 plus postage.
Only one I can see at the moment is $200 delivered.
:link: 2011 Hyundai I30 Silver 5DOOR Hatch Manual Stereo | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2011-HYUNDAI-I30-SILVER-5DOOR-HATCH-MANUAL-STEREO-/321659605443?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item4ae46811c3)
Thanks beerman.
I have asked the seller the all important question - do they have the security code? :)
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G'day mate,
I have seen the head unit you refer to on ebay for around $120 plus postage.
Only one I can see at the moment is $200 delivered.
:link: 2011 Hyundai I30 Silver 5DOOR Hatch Manual Stereo | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2011-HYUNDAI-I30-SILVER-5DOOR-HATCH-MANUAL-STEREO-/321659605443?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item4ae46811c3)
Thanks beerman.
I have asked the seller the all important question - do they have the security code? :)
Don't really need it.
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G'day mate,
I have seen the head unit you refer to on ebay for around $120 plus postage.
Only one I can see at the moment is $200 delivered.
:link: 2011 Hyundai I30 Silver 5DOOR Hatch Manual Stereo | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2011-HYUNDAI-I30-SILVER-5DOOR-HATCH-MANUAL-STEREO-/321659605443?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item4ae46811c3)
Thanks beerman.
I have asked the seller the all important question - do they have the security code? :)
Don't really need it.
Why is that Tim? I thought the whole idea of a security code was to discourage someone stealing and reselling the stereo??
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Cause any dealer can get pin code if they have the serial number of the unit.
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Cause any dealer can get pin code if they have the serial number of the unit.
Thank you for that info.
Any idea how much they should charge for getting the pin code? Assuming they don't decide to do it for nothing for a repeat (service) customer.
Cheers
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Personally I don't charge our customers but will charge blow in's minimum workshop fee which is $33.
If your a good customer you might get lucky.
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Try Google too,
I stumbled over a helpful how to update the GPS maps for free the other day while looking at other things on Whirlpool.......
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Might be a daft question from a UK newbie, but is there a UK/EUR version of this unit?
I'm interested in upgrading the head unit from the PA-710 in my 2010 i30cw, mainly for a clean way of integrating Bluetooth.
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Looks like the place that Beerman spoted sold the two they had at $200.
Now have a new listing - slightly different description - at $295 (with free postage - which may be via. Toll... a number of reviews mention Toll).
HYUNDAI I30 2007-2012 SILVER 5DOOR HATCH MANUAL STEREO(blue tooth) (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221719461263)
Maybe someone should tell them the best way to describe them is 'HYUNDAI i30 2007-2012 FD-01 STEREO RADIO'
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Yeah, I wonder sometimes about descriptions on ebay!
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Ok.... So Save yourself the hassle of paying the dealer to give you the security code for the FD-01 when it is right there on the serial number label.
The dealer ACTUALLY doesn't have these on hand. I have found that Hyundai doesnt keep any record of pin numbers for these units produced by Cartronics. I had the same issue when I bought a headunit for our old Getz to get bluetooth.
Any here it is!
The LAST 4 digits of the serial number label is the code. (This will be on a barcode label)
BUT there is one more step.
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Enter that into the unit and BANG you're in!
SO the important thing is the ensure that the barcode has not been damaged when removed from the wreck. Without this label the unit is worthless. Hyundai do not keep record of these numbers, nor is there any connection between the VIN # of the vehicle and this serial number.
I found this out the hard why when I was trying to get the unit working in the Getz. I had to guess the last digit because the number was scatched off.
Hope this information helps!
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Also, check out my Thread about my change over.
You'll also find some helpful info if you get a headunit that has the temp sensor disabled.
:link: Aust - FD i30 - Missing Outside Temp. Here is how to fix it! (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=23118.msg258915#msg258915)
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:Agoodpost: :ta:
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Ok.... So Save yourself the hassle of paying the dealer to give you the security code for the FD-01 when it is right there on the serial number label.
<snip>
SO the important thing is the ensure that the barcode has not been damaged when removed from the wreck. Without this label the unit is worthless. Hyundai do not keep record of these numbers, nor is there any connection between the VIN # of the vehicle and this serial number.
I found this out the hard why when I was trying to get the unit working in the Getz. I had to guess the last digit because the number was scratched off.
Hope this information helps!
Looks like someone accounted for the situation at manufacture - at least in the FD-01 units. There is a duplicate serial number label affixed to the inside of the top panel of the case (at least on mine) - I am assuming the duplicate label and placement was std. procedure. So external S/N label damage might not be a show stopper - just a slight annoyance.
I found this when I disassembled the one I brought before I installed it - it was a bit dusty and my tertiary background is electronics - wanted to see the chips, etc.. and see if there was JTAG or similar. So you just need to undo the one screw holding the lid at the back, pull the back up (pivot) of the lid up to clear the side friction clips, then slide the top towards the back to clear the lid tongues from the front.
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You are right ibrokeit, I pulled mine apart too and found the same. Cartronics said that is what they do across all their units. Good work!
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You are right ibrokeit, I pulled mine apart too and found the same. Cartronics said that is what they do across all their units. Good work!
That is a nice touch, and good practice.
Talking about pulling apart...
- While the PA710 seems to have a more sophisticated PCB design some resepcts - edge shielding, test contacts - and some components - single multi-voltage power reg, FM tuner is a chip on PCB... where as the FD-01 has separate shielded module soldered vertically to the PCB
- The PA710 uses more power just 'sitting' there as well as playing sound - IIRC playing a CD at the same (subjective) loudness: the FD-01 used (per PSU current meter) ~0.6A@12.8V; where as the PA710 hit the current limit I had set (~1A) using ~1.1-1.2A@12.8V
- Which probably explains the separate, thicker with many holes (more surface area), heat-sink plate used on the PA710 single power reg :D
Though I do wish the FD-01 was more like the PA710 is some aspects - e.g. more UI driven menu for the settings; when off not needing to hold down the 'Mode' (steering wheel) button to turn on.
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Wow great bit of research there!
By any chance you wouldnt know why the FD-01 has average bluetooth quality?
The sound quality using bluetooth sounds a bit crackly, also like its steaming at low quality.
The original FD-01 I had and the brand new one I got the other week with all the firmware updates sounds no better.
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Thanks! Of course some it is made up of combining experience with observation.
As to your query - how long have you got? :rofl: I say that semi-seriously.
Really short answer: No. :D
The short, or TL;DR (Too Long; Didn't Read), version is these can be a factor:
- Bluetooth wasn't specifically designed for audio - it compresses it a lot losing quality
- Due to real-time nature of BT audio - lost data is ignored, corrupt audio data is sent on AFAIK...
- For sound coming from the phone over BT the data, or lack of it, gets sent to the DAC which makes it analogue and we hear it
- For sound going to phone they usually get modified (or ignored) when the phone compresses the audio for transmission on the mobile network - the compression used is highly optimised for voice - but it has an effect on overall quality.
- Data loss, etc. can be affected by BT aerial position, distance between the aerials, other devices emitting RF noise, etc.
- Noise cancellation (more to do with mic side of things) to ignore 'background noise' - does the BT chip (or it's firmware) in the FD-01 have any tailored to car noise/sound environment and/or i30 specifically - the mic is directly connected to the module (so such would have to be done there)
- Noise getting into the sound coming out of the BT module going to the amp (inside the FD-01) - the BT module is on the faceplate PCB basically behind he Call/End buttons on the back of the PCB... the amp is at the back of the case... and there is one or two connectors.
A little more:
The data/BT side:
- Bluetooth wasn't specifically designed for Audio - to make audio go over BT a lot of compression is applied (maybe less so now with Bluetooth 3.x and 4.x than 1.x and 2.x)
- I could be wrong but, at least for audio, I don't think data is resent by the BT protocol if it is lost/corrupt while going over BT
- I think, at least in regards to some data, BT protocol is a bit like UDP - it is up to whatever is receiving the data to determine if it is wrong/lost and ask for it not the protocol
- Until the error rate is too high - likely when command and control of the link itself (not the data) is being too degraded to maintain it
- Due to the real time nature of BT audio - most widgets just send the corrupt data, and gaps for missing data, into the audio stream - where it is converted into hisses, pops, etc..
- In the case of audio to be sent by a mobile phone - the compression used by the phone will probably make such noise unrecognizable (because they are highly optimised for voice) but then that noise can still effect the perceived quality, because it will have affected the sound of the voice (and treated as voice if not rejected)
- The optimisation for voice is why stuff like music usually sounds bad/terrible over a mobile call and/or drops in and out when people are talking or not.
- Of course lost/corrupt data packets can be affected by things like: how strongly the transmitter transmits (tx) and the receiver receives (rx) - power and aerial size/location/design; interference/frequency noise, etc.; how good the 'rx' circuitry (usually part of the BT module/chip) is (e.g. design) - which also plays a factor in rejection of interference
Then, of course, there is the 'actual audio' side of it...
- Devices designed to, digitally, send and receive sound at the same time - usually have inbuilt methods (hardware circuits and/or software) so the mic/input-circuitry ignores/cancels/removes the sound that just came out of the speaker(s) of same device; the noise cancellation is usually also (usually in software) further tuned for characteristics of the specific device model (or even that device) in different situations (loud speaker/on table; windy; etc.).
- Which is why modern phones (when there isn't external issues - network congestion, etc.) usually sound pretty good - even though the voice is getting compressed to go over the mobile network... the 'codec's algos used are highly optimized for human voice...
- Hands-free has it's own microphone - how good it is can be affected by the mic itself and position (usually in the HF device itself - in our case an FD-01)
- So transmitted sound can be affected by that and how good the noise cancellation of the HF device is - one would hope the BT module in the FD-01 has some tailored to a car environment, if not the sound characteristics of the i30/i30cw, if there is it could be part of the firmware (or the mapping/calibration for functionality built into the chip - if there is)
- And of course, as above, the BT module outputs audio (probably in analogue) which then gets feed to the amp (maybe via other chips) - but that signal has to travel from the BT module to there and is probably the longest audio signal path.