The Original i30 Owners Club

GOT PROBLEMS OR ISSUES? => GENERAL => Topic started by: admoss1980 on February 26, 2016, 19:04:55

Title: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: admoss1980 on February 26, 2016, 19:04:55
Evening all,

So... child in child seat has a bit of a strop and has managed to toe-punt the heating controls (the spinning temp dial with the auto/off button in the middle).

Long story short said toe-punt popped it backwards so it was flush with the rest of the dash.  Popping it back out with a pair of tweezers and the circuit board behind it (or rather, the 4 mount points and connections) are snapped.

Stealer reckons its £1300 to repair, of which they say only £70 is labour.

Any ideas for a DIY repair, because that is too pricey :lol:

Cheers
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: ant76p on February 26, 2016, 19:20:33
Can you get a second hand one of flea bay and fit it yourself.
could save you a lot of money!
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: Dazzler on February 26, 2016, 20:17:42
I'd try a wreckers yard!  :fingers:
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: Phil №❶ on February 26, 2016, 21:02:21
Move the child seat first.  :eek:
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: cruiserfied on February 26, 2016, 21:03:37
Price sounds about right. I would be looking for a used replacement.
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: ibrokeit on February 27, 2016, 05:16:39
Bugger!   :wts:

There should be enough i30 FDs at wreckers that you should be able to find one - hopefully easily.
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: admoss1980 on February 27, 2016, 07:49:02
Hey yes, been looking on evil bay seen to come in around £300 on their so a tad more preferable :)

Next question - how do I actually remove this darn thing?
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: sundiz on February 27, 2016, 11:46:24
Sell the kid and buy new control unit with that money?

If the pcb is not totally busted, you might be able to glue the broken bits together and solder the copper traces together. If components or small traces are busted then it is different thing.  Can you remove the pcb and post a picture? Would be easier to say if the pcb is still fixable.
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: The Gonz on February 28, 2016, 01:37:14
Move the child seat first.  :eek:
:rofl: :judges:
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: beerman on February 28, 2016, 18:57:30
Move the child seat first.  :eek:
:rofl: :judges:

Definitely do this, if you have a prang the airbag could do the child serious harm.....
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: admoss1980 on February 28, 2016, 19:51:02
I've actually got the airbag disabled on that side with the key swith.  Of course one can't actually test this, but I have to take it on trust it works  :lol:

Can't move it though, 'cos there are two others in the back and the damn things are so bulky I can't get all three in row, as the door card shows :mad:

I've took a couple of photos on the PCB and will upload shortly, unfortunately I still haven't worked out how to remove the trim yet so I can unscrew the unit but I'll get there eventually  :eek:
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: Phil №❶ on February 28, 2016, 20:37:38
Are you driving FD or GD model  :question:
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: admoss1980 on February 28, 2016, 22:02:18
FD I guess - 2010 model
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: Phil №❶ on February 28, 2016, 22:32:47
Follow the instructions to remove

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Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: ibrokeit on February 29, 2016, 03:01:22
This might also be of help - lots of "pretty" pictures...

:link: HOW TO: FD Body - OEM (2DIN) headunit - Fascia Removal/Refitting (https://i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=36289.msg370940#msg370940)

The second video, though for different A/C controls, at about 1:10 shows taking the compartment above the ash-tray and ash-tray out - so that you can put the bottom of the fascia out... which can be really useful as there are three molded clips/receptacles right along the bottom edge (I know I have broken one) - not the ones that are colored white in the photos.
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: The Gonz on February 29, 2016, 14:31:21
If this is PCB damage, I'm loathe to give up without epoxy glue and a soldering iron. :head_knock:
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: sundiz on February 29, 2016, 17:48:30
One way to fix traces is to use conductive paint. They sell it in some autoparts stores and it is often used to fix broken traces in the rear window heating element. It is expensive (around 2000€/litre), but they sell it in really small bottles which makes it affordable. They come almost like the "paint" ladies use for their finger nails. I think I paid once 20ish € for a tiny bottle. But I prefer soldering whenever that is possible to implement. Especially on pcb...
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: Phil №❶ on February 29, 2016, 22:37:45
Although you could use the paint, I would not recommend it for this purpose, as it is actually a resistive formulation, designed to heat up when current is applied. It is by nature a poor conductor and not what we would want in this circumstance. Glue for the board and solder or replacement copper wires if necessary would be best.
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: ibrokeit on March 01, 2016, 01:47:17
If this is PCB damage, I'm loathe to give up without epoxy glue and a soldering iron. :head_knock:

And

Although you could use the paint, I would not recommend it for this purpose, as it is actually a resistive formulation, designed to heat up when current is applied. It is by nature a poor conductor and not what we would want in this circumstance. Glue for the board and solder or replacement copper wires if necessary would be best.

Hehe - yup I agree about the epoxy and solder!  Hadn't mentioned it - being many people don't know how to do such.  But if it is the PCB that could very well work.
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: beerman on March 02, 2016, 08:46:46
I've actually got the airbag disabled on that side with the key swith.  Of course one can't actually test this, but I have to take it on trust it works  :lol:

Can't move it though, 'cos there are two others in the back and the damn things are so bulky I can't get all three in row, as the door card shows :mad:

I've took a couple of photos on the PCB and will upload shortly, unfortunately I still haven't worked out how to remove the trim yet so I can unscrew the unit but I'll get there eventually  :eek:

I should read the manual more....I did not know you could do that. If the Airbag is disabled all ok  :victory:
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: Phil №❶ on March 02, 2016, 09:11:43
Is that legal  :exclaim:
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: ibrokeit on March 02, 2016, 09:22:09
I should read the manual more....I did not know you could do that. If the Airbag is disabled all ok  :victory:

and

Is that legal  :exclaim:

IIRC it is an option/feature in some countries - UK being one.   I guess that yes it is legal.
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: eye30 on March 02, 2016, 16:15:51
Is that legal  :exclaim:
Think, Only if you use a child seat on the front passenger seat otherwise it should be activated.
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: Asterix on March 02, 2016, 18:28:14
Is that legal  :exclaim:

Sure it is. A lot of cars have had that option for many years. I also think you'll find an indicator somewhere on the dash when the passenger airbag is deactivated.

In the early days with airbags (mid 1990's) we could deactivate the passenger airbag in a VW by disconnecting the plug from the airbag and then plug in a resistor so the control module still thought there was an airbag connected. (only to secure the self-test at startup wouldn't cause an errorcode). The control module would then be set to not fire the pass airbag at impact.

In order to do this a small sign would be attached to the dashboard in front of the passenger seat.
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: bumpkin on March 03, 2016, 08:45:47
In the UK a child seat may be fitted in the front but facing backwards, in the event of an accident where the airbags activate the bag would push a baby towards the rear of the car thereby causing whiplash so switching the bag off is allowed but only in that circumstance.
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: admoss1980 on March 07, 2016, 10:10:35
Good morning all.

Many thanks to all of those that have replied to this thread.  I'm pleased to say with a £42 invesment from ebay, and a hour or so of my time the a/c controls are now repaired!  Hopefully I can now get the original PCB repaired properly too :)

Find herewith some photographs I took along the way.  I did remove the storage box and coin tray, including connectors for the heated seats but didn't really find this much help - I ended up sliding a trim removal tool in leavering up that way (no clips broken :) )

The original problem:
(http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b410/admoss1980/1.jpg) (http://s1040.photobucket.com/user/admoss1980/media/1.jpg.html)

(http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b410/admoss1980/2.jpg) (http://s1040.photobucket.com/user/admoss1980/media/2.jpg.html)

Trim panel released:
(http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b410/admoss1980/3.jpg) (http://s1040.photobucket.com/user/admoss1980/media/3.jpg.html)

Fascia panel removed, wiring disconnected:
(http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b410/admoss1980/4.jpg) (http://s1040.photobucket.com/user/admoss1980/media/4.jpg.html)

5 screws hold the a/c controls to the fascia unit:
(http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b410/admoss1980/5.jpg) (http://s1040.photobucket.com/user/admoss1980/media/5.jpg.html)

Repaired and everything replaced:
(http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b410/admoss1980/6.jpg) (http://s1040.photobucket.com/user/admoss1980/media/6.jpg.html)

And for good measure for those wondering about the airbags  :lol:

Key switch to enable/disable the passenger arir bag:
(http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b410/admoss1980/7.jpg) (http://s1040.photobucket.com/user/admoss1980/media/7.jpg.html)

Dash illumination showing the airbag is disabled:
(http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b410/admoss1980/8.jpg) (http://s1040.photobucket.com/user/admoss1980/media/8.jpg.html)

Regards

Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: AlanHo on March 07, 2016, 10:14:27
Great post and congratulations on getting it sorted with minimal expense  :agoodjob: :cool!: :topmegacool:
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: Phil №❶ on March 07, 2016, 11:48:39
Excellent result  :goodjob2:
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: ibrokeit on March 07, 2016, 15:11:46
Nice!  Good photos too!

So I guess you got a whole a/c controls unit?  Was the OEM or 2nd hand/wreckers?   Just curious.

As for the original PCB - yeah probably can... I am guessing it was only held to the rest of the PCB by 5 thin peices of PCB - which look like a number have tracks running on them.
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: admoss1980 on March 07, 2016, 18:04:43
Yep, 2nd hand from a someone breaking down a car - got the full unit for £30 with another £12 for next day delivery.

And yes, just those 5 points holding the twiddly knob to the wider PCB, so hopefully can find somewhere to repair it and resolder those tracks. :)
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: Dazzler on March 07, 2016, 22:54:11
 :wts: Very clever and thanks heaps for sharing the photos.  :judges:
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: ibrokeit on March 08, 2016, 03:04:40
Yep, 2nd hand from a someone breaking down a car - got the full unit for £30 with another £12 for next day delivery.

And yes, just those 5 points holding the twiddly knob to the wider PCB, so hopefully can find somewhere to repair it and resolder those tracks. :)

Maybe pick up an electronics hobby magazine and/or search on google - they issue is many places that may do such fixes are usually small or home (and/or hobby) business... often with very little web presence... if you have a local electronics repair shop (rather than a brand service center) they might do it.   Trouble is they can be less common now - with many consumer items being more economical to replace than repair  :(  Which is why you get home/hobby businesses - full-time business with premises became nonviable... so operator goes finds other employment and operates repair business on the side; or a retiree sets up part time business to stay busy.

It shouldn't be too hard (assuming, if you need to, you can put wire on the 'knob' side of the PCB - i.e. enough clearance):
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: admoss1980 on March 08, 2016, 08:30:29
That's a good idea, thanks.  I did some google-fu last night but in my area it was mostly industrial pcl type repairers, which I can't imagine will be cheap.  Apart from one independent with terrible reviews.

Anyway here's some pics of the actual PCB - I think you're spot on with your suggestions to repair as they is plenty of room.  Actually putting a brace between the two boards would stop it happening entirely really.

Twiddly knob
(http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b410/admoss1980/i30/Heating%20Controls%20PCB/thumb_IMG_20160308_063035_1024.jpg) (http://s1040.photobucket.com/user/admoss1980/media/i30/Heating%20Controls%20PCB/thumb_IMG_20160308_063035_1024.jpg.html)

Top of PCB when removed from housing
(http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b410/admoss1980/i30/Heating%20Controls%20PCB/thumb_IMG_20160308_062906_1024.jpg) (http://s1040.photobucket.com/user/admoss1980/media/i30/Heating%20Controls%20PCB/thumb_IMG_20160308_062906_1024.jpg.html)

Top side view of PCB - the white bits at the bottom are where the wiring harness clips in, the white at the top is the LCD screen
(http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b410/admoss1980/i30/Heating%20Controls%20PCB/thumb_IMG_20160308_062943_1024.jpg) (http://s1040.photobucket.com/user/admoss1980/media/i30/Heating%20Controls%20PCB/thumb_IMG_20160308_062943_1024.jpg.html)

Side view (left hand side)
(http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b410/admoss1980/i30/Heating%20Controls%20PCB/thumb_IMG_20160308_063005_1024.jpg) (http://s1040.photobucket.com/user/admoss1980/media/i30/Heating%20Controls%20PCB/thumb_IMG_20160308_063005_1024.jpg.html)

Zoomed in on the twiddle knob hole :faint:
(http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b410/admoss1980/i30/Heating%20Controls%20PCB/thumb_IMG_20160308_063019_1024.jpg) (http://s1040.photobucket.com/user/admoss1980/media/i30/Heating%20Controls%20PCB/thumb_IMG_20160308_063019_1024.jpg.html)

Bottom view
(http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b410/admoss1980/i30/Heating%20Controls%20PCB/thumb_IMG_20160308_062913_1024.jpg) (http://s1040.photobucket.com/user/admoss1980/media/i30/Heating%20Controls%20PCB/thumb_IMG_20160308_062913_1024.jpg.html)

To remove the PCB from the housing it is just a matter of popping all the clips :)
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: admoss1980 on March 08, 2016, 08:32:48
Oh meant to say too - there is a little black "slide catch" in the housing to align the twiddly knob into the correct position.
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: Phil №❶ on March 08, 2016, 09:38:48
I didn't know Doggie1 taught photography  :exclaim:
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: The Gonz on March 08, 2016, 11:26:24
I didn't know Doggie1 taught photography  :exclaim:
:rofl:

Like I said, I woudln't think twice about attacking it myself - go for it! :goodjob:
Title: Re: Heating Controls Meet Angry Child
Post by: sundiz on March 08, 2016, 15:39:18
Pcb seems to be FR4. Fiberglass and epoxy resin. Almost any superglue should work. If you lost the broken pins you could just cut same size bits from some old pcb. If you have any old pc components (network cards, modems or any other PCI slot cards) you might be able to cut new contact pins from pci pins. They might close to the real size. Just use dremel or sharp cutting pliers.

Also the desing seems to be quite simple. At least on the other side. Some hobbyist would easily draw new pcb as all the componens seem to be passive. But as the pcb is in such a good shape, I think superglue is the easiest option.
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